A Comic About Breasts

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Daystar Clarion:

CHRONIC BACK INJURIES HO!

Apparently they never taught her in necromancer school to 'Put ya tits away love!'

Her rack is an essential spell component to the animation, movement and control of all the bones under her command.

the uproar over breasts has gone over my head...

Nice allegory, the appearance of the elf is overshadowed by the appearance of the sorceresses' breasts.

TheSYLOH:

They also aren't generally that big.
My theory is that they are made of some kind of light weight composite material.

So they're a sort of breastplate?

Holy cow do I feel dirty for that one.

It's only a matter of time before this thread is completely overrun by feminists trying to get a great big weight off their chests.

Vanillaware couldn't pay for this type of marketing, if Dragons Crown doesn't go on to become their best selling game, then colour me surprised.

Fuck, my next game is just going to be about tits... and will have a weird trailer involving nuns and supposed rape scenes. I'll make millions.

Grey Carter:

the whole "the men are sexualized too!" argument is bullshit and you know it.

I respectfully disagree. The men ARE sexualized and fetishized. The Fighter has a bishie face and pectorals the size of cadellacs. The Wizard is the brooding, pretty man. The Dwarf is the muscled bear. All three of them are sexualized for men and women. People need to stop pretending women don't find muscular men attractive.

Can we all just admit there a few things nicer in this world than breasts?

Now lets admire the Sorceress some more, shall we?

StormShaun:
*Looks up*
That's a lot of breast gifs right there.

...

No, I'm not going to make one.

OT: Honestly I didn't like Dragon Crown due to this.
I mean the woman characters have little armor and bit breasts (Minus the elf, which was quite rare) and the men have steroid muscles inspired straight from Gears of War.

Basically, didn't like the game due to character designs.
And no wonder everyone picks the biggest/hottest (In there own opinion) looking character there.

Honestly I prefer that elf character. A gal with small breasts.
Nothing to be ashamed of there. :D

... this topic is really reminding me of Highschool of the Dead's Matrix Boobs scene. =_=

But sorceresses don't need armor . They are a mages . So it makes sense they wear cloth .

As for the men , well , try carrying a melee weapon like that all day everyday , while slaying things . Muscles are required .

Plus i think that the devs overexagerated it on purpose for satire or something .

OT: i can't think of a clever joke so ...

TsunamiWombat:

Grey Carter:

the whole "the men are sexualized too!" argument is bullshit and you know it.

I respectfully disagree. The men ARE sexualized and fetishized. The Fighter has a bishie face and pectorals the size of cadellacs. The Wizard is the brooding, pretty man. The Dwarf is the muscled bear. All three of them are sexualized for men and women. People need to stop pretending women don't find muscular men attractive.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7290-Objectification-And-Men
for starters.

I won't deny muscular men are attractive, even being a lesbian I like it now and then even on a shallow level. Bane is one of my fav comic characters though it's more than just his immense brawn, but heck I like Alton Brown, David Tennant, and Patrick Stewart and the characters he plays on a similar level, but I don't think The Fighter, Dwarf, and Wizard were made for the exclusive benefit of women. It's possible they were, but let's not pretend this sort of thing is universally true every time the protagonist is looks like a model, or a body builder.
I'm pretty certain that the Amazon, Elf, and Sorceress weren't made with attracting women either.

Not every pretty face, male or female is going to be universally liked, or done for the sake of the other gender.
Frankly, Japan is fairly well entrenched in tropes. The Tough guy, The Leader, the burly guy, the pretty boy, and the brains being a team. Sometimes these qualities get condensed. It's not limited to guys either. Generally any team out of Japan can fit the idea of a team of specialists.

What is generally true about all playable characters, though, IMO, is that we all want to look awesome, even if they're showing off 6 pack abs, or have bountiful bosoms, or if they're smartly, and sharply dressed.
What is generally, also true, IMO, is that protagonists are intended to appeal to men first, then women if they try to appeal to women at all.
I really doubt many women play God of War to stare at Kratos like a guy would stare at Rachel from Ninja Gaiden, and don't really relish Kratos' Sex scenes the same way as a guy would.
It's definitely just me speaking here, but I only bought God of War for the curiousity of female nudity in a game, and only bought the first. Kratos doesn't do a thing for me.

Rebel_Raven:
stuff i'm not snipping out to be rude, just for the sake of a shorter reply

Well, to be quite honest, Sorc and Amazon don't really do anything for me. I feel like Elf would be very attractive

I feel like everyone assumes these characters are universally attractive to men, and a lot of men JOKE about it, but they aren't really turned on by Sorceress's giant flopping flotation devices either. To me, the character designs are all satirical of traditional tropes.

TsunamiWombat:

Rebel_Raven:
stuff i'm not snipping out to be rude, just for the sake of a shorter reply

Well, to be quite honest, Sorc and Amazon don't really do anything for me. I feel like Elf would be very attractive

I feel like everyone assumes these characters are universally attractive to men, and a lot of men JOKE about it, but they aren't really turned on by Sorceress's giant flopping flotation devices either. To me, the character designs are all satirical of traditional tropes.

That's fine. I don't expect Sorceress, or Amazon to do much for anyone. I'm not the sort of person to assume much of anything about anyone without some sort of clue from them, ore a reliable source.

I can agree on the Elf, though bound breasts might be in play as I can imagine most women don't want their boobs whapped by bow strings as they fire.

I agree that the characters are not meant to be realistic, even though the Dwarf, Elf, and Mage are somewhat believeable (as far as fictional characters go) in design.

The off the wall designs possibly are also intended to help them stand out from the background more, and stand out from enemies more.

Still, I like the designs. They aren't perfect, but they stand out.

captcha: bouncy ball. hehe

I feel that liking boobs on this website is worse than bein the devil himself sometimes with all the sexism-talks. I don't really enjoy the character design because its soooo unproportional/unrealistic/inhuman but people I don't see how people can judge the game that much if there are alternative characters not so over-sexualized. And I don't really enjoy games that are all about sex-appeal such as DoA or Bayonetta but I just don't understand why people feel the need to complain about them; if yo don't like them, then don't play them.

Hope nobody gets sued over the art.

image

clippen05:
I feel that liking boobs on this website is worse than bein the devil himself sometimes with all the sexism-talks. I don't really enjoy the character design because its soooo unproportional/unrealistic/inhuman but people I don't see how people can judge the game that much if there are alternative characters not so over-sexualized. And I don't really enjoy games that are all about sex-appeal such as DoA or Bayonetta but I just don't understand why people feel the need to complain about them; if yo don't like them, then don't play them.

Part of the problem with disliking the over-sexualized portrayals of women is that if you don't buy them, you're losing a healthy dose of gaming options. Options are thin as it is.
There were years in the past where you couldn't even get a game with a female protagonist outside of going indie, or getting games that are a few years old, or really researching and looking hard, and you didn't even really have the option to suck it up, and buy a game that's potentially aesthetically insulting.
When there were games with female protagonists, they were oversexualized women. You either dealt with it, or you just didn't get new games.

This year is probably the best since Y2K in terms of game releases with women in practical clothes, nevermind releases with female protagonists in general. But saying that, it's not exactly hard for a year to be the best. Tomb raider, and Remember Me, largely. Maybe a few low profile games that most have never heard of.
Next year might be on par, or slightly better, but I trust nothing until the games get release dates to the month and day.

Also, sorry about hearing you feel that way. If liking boobs is wrong, I don't wanna be right. :P

I think the problems with sexualization stems, largely, because it's so common in so many games it's really hard to ignore. There aren't many alternatives. If there were diversity there'd be a lot less problems.

Copper Zen:

I.Muir:

Biodeamon:

I'm posting again, because puns are

image

...my "main squeeze".

Is it just me... or is it a bit
image
nippy here

I find this strip to be quite

image

...titillating.

the mods are going to rest these puns..
image
...on dirty pillows.

I don't see this happening because, honestly, I don't get the impression that most of the people talking about the Sorceress were actually interested in buying the game. On boards where people actually talk about looking forward to playing it, as opposed to debating its gender politics, there appear to be pretty strong contingents planning to main just about every class.

Must...Google... HIGH SCHOOL OF THE DEAD MATRIX BOOBS!

PS: Don't click that unless you want your sensibilities violated. You've been warned.

PSS: Disappointed by the lack of nudity.

238U

Three support casters and a ranger? Their party balance is shit.

I was a bit on the fence about this game because of a scenario like that in the comic, to be honest. But then I heard someone with a review copy state every attack can be cancelled into every other attack so I'm sold.

Probably start with Fighter since he seems incredibly under-represented by everything, also because shield bashing.

Cybylt:
Three support casters and a ranger? Their party balance is shit.

I was a bit on the fence about this game because of a scenario like that in the comic, to be honest. But then I heard someone with a review copy state every attack can be cancelled into every other attack so I'm sold.

Probably start with Fighter since he seems incredibly under-represented by everything, also because shield bashing.

But Rain Spider, wouldn't you be better suited to a ranger like the Elf? Leave the CQC stuff to DP and his little minion.

Paragon Fury:

Cybylt:
Three support casters and a ranger? Their party balance is shit.

I was a bit on the fence about this game because of a scenario like that in the comic, to be honest. But then I heard someone with a review copy state every attack can be cancelled into every other attack so I'm sold.

Probably start with Fighter since he seems incredibly under-represented by everything, also because shield bashing.

But Rain Spider, wouldn't you be better suited to a ranger like the Elf? Leave the CQC stuff to DP and his little minion.

Haven't you forgotten the whip? Or how I thrashed the Punk and later a couple of thugs with a stick?

rhizhim:

Copper Zen:

I.Muir:

Is it just me... or is it a bit
image
nippy here

I find this strip to be quite

image

...titillating.

the mods are going to rest these puns..
image
...on dirty pillows.

I think these puns are going to go on and on in an endless game of..

image

tit for tat.

DaRigger420:

rhizhim:

Copper Zen:

I find this strip to be quite

image

...titillating.

the mods are going to rest these puns..
image
...on dirty pillows.

I think these puns are going to go on and on in an endless game of..

image

tit for tat.

but this accumulation of puns are surely going to...
image
..push someones buttons.

BlackFlyme:

Also, every time I see the fighter I think of this:

You do realise that WH40K space marines are actually as gigantic as their power suits are, right?

ThunderCavalier:
I actually wanna pick up this game, but I don't have a PS3.

It honestly looks and sounds pretty good, exaggerated character designs aside.

I think we've had our fill of "Everyone but the elf has an extremely exaggerated design" jokes though, haven't we?

I find kind of ironic the fact that pretty much no one outside of Japan realizes that the elf is as "exaggerated" as the Sorceress, if not even more.

Rebel_Raven:
There were years in the past where you couldn't even get a game with a female protagonist outside of going indie, or getting games that are a few years old, or really researching and looking hard, and you didn't even really have the option to suck it up, and buy a game that's potentially aesthetically insulting. When there were games with female protagonists, they were oversexualized women. You either dealt with it, or you just didn't get new games.

This year is probably the best since Y2K in terms of game releases with women in practical clothes, nevermind releases with female protagonists in general. But saying that, it's not exactly hard for a year to be the best. Tomb raider, and Remember Me, largely. Maybe a few low profile games that most have never heard of.

I always have to wonder about these things. "Even" as a guy I like playing female characters and preferably female characters with some character. Sure, those sexualized characters have their appeal, but when they are thrown at me a dime a dozen they are just plain boring. I found it quite weird when they said, that Transistor had problems raising funding, because the suits didn't believe gamers wanting a game with (that kind of?) female protagonist...

As a juvenile my differents probably were different, but considering that http://www.theesa.com/facts/ says that the average gamer is 30, and weighted by game purchases 35, I wonder about the relevance of juvenile tastes.

To be fair (and avoid too obvious bigotry), I still DO react to sexualized advertisment. It is just an easy method to raise some first interest, so yes, sexualized advertising or generally visually attractive female cast is likely to increase my chance of buying the game, or at least informing myself about the game. And while "visually attractive" doesn't necessarily mean showing a big bosom in sparse clothing but might also be achieved by visuals that hint at character, the first is possible the easier method to raise the interest of the widest possible range of potential customers.

As for Dragon's Crow, it is so overdone here, that it doesn't even have the described advertisment effect on me, so I'd let it go as proper caricature, even though it may still be sexist depending on how the stereotypes are used in the actual story/gameplay. Shallow, big-bosom female characters have valid use in a game-culture-caricature after all. I just fear, that the caricature-character may be lost to enough gamers in order to fill the game community with enough mysgonist atmosphere to make it uninteresting not only to female gamers, unless they are very strict about kicking players for abusive attitudes.

Birdnest:

Rebel_Raven:
There were years in the past where you couldn't even get a game with a female protagonist outside of going indie, or getting games that are a few years old, or really researching and looking hard, and you didn't even really have the option to suck it up, and buy a game that's potentially aesthetically insulting. When there were games with female protagonists, they were oversexualized women. You either dealt with it, or you just didn't get new games.

This year is probably the best since Y2K in terms of game releases with women in practical clothes, nevermind releases with female protagonists in general. But saying that, it's not exactly hard for a year to be the best. Tomb raider, and Remember Me, largely. Maybe a few low profile games that most have never heard of.

I always have to wonder about these things. "Even" as a guy I like playing female characters and preferably female characters with some character. Sure, those sexualized characters have their appeal, but when they are thrown at me a dime a dozen they are just plain boring. I found it quite weird when they said, that Transistor had problems raising funding, because the suits didn't believe gamers wanting a game with (that kind of?) female protagonist...

As a juvenile my differents probably were different, but considering that http://www.theesa.com/facts/ says that the average gamer is 30, and weighted by game purchases 35, I wonder about the relevance of juvenile tastes.

To be fair (and avoid too obvious bigotry), I still DO react to sexualized advertisment. It is just an easy method to raise some first interest, so yes, sexualized advertising or generally visually attractive female cast is likely to increase my chance of buying the game, or at least informing myself about the game. And while "visually attractive" doesn't necessarily mean showing a big bosom in sparse clothing but might also be achieved by visuals that hint at character, the first is possible the easier method to raise the interest of the widest possible range of potential customers.

As for Dragon's Crow, it is so overdone here, that it doesn't even have the described advertisment effect on me, so I'd let it go as proper caricature, even though it may still be sexist depending on how the stereotypes are used in the actual story/gameplay. Shallow, big-bosom female characters have valid use in a game-culture-caricature after all. I just fear, that the caricature-character may be lost to enough gamers in order to fill the game community with enough mysgonist atmosphere to make it uninteresting not only to female gamers, unless they are very strict about kicking players for abusive attitudes.

Not terribly surprised to hear that about Transistor.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-20-bastion-developer-teases-transistor-for-pax-east
That link might help you remember the incident. It backs up your rememberance at least partially.

Sexualized women in advertisements are case by case with me if I'm bothered, or not. It depends on the extent of it, how reliant it is on it, the general art style, who the women are to/in the game, and what they're doing in the game.
I recognize sex sells, but there's a point when a game becomes too reliant on it.

Dragon's Crown doesn't really bother me. Not as far as the Amazon, or Sorceress go, anyhow. I see both sides of the contovercy of the designs, and I understand the world of the game. The Amazon, and Sorceress don't seem shallow, or inferior combat wise compared to the male counterparts, and the elf, though that's a view from the outside. I can't comment on the other women in the game. I want to play the game, but haven't yet.
I've got a bit of a thick skin against sexual depictions. Partly because I can appreciate them. I like looking at them, and I like looking good in a game.

I can fully understand why Dragon's Crown is offensive, though.

Grey Carter:

I shouldn't need to explain that the male characters are NOT sexualized. They're idealized as part of a male power fantasy. THEY ARE NOT designed to appeal to women. There are plenty of reasons to defend Dragon's Crown's stylistic choices, chief amongst them being the awesome technical prowess of the Vanillaware art team, but the whole "the men are sexualized too!" argument is bullshit and you know it.

As for the Amazon drawing from Greek ideals, debatable. The ideal greek form had wide hips (check), defined musculature (check), correct fat proportions (nope) and small breasts (hell to the fucking nope). I personally adore the design, it's exaggerated to the point of freakishness, which I like, but I can see why others take issue.

Finally. No one is calling the game misogynist. They ARE calling it "sexist." Which is a fair cop, the game's female characters are treated differently from the male characters, just look at the poses. You can argue that this is because the game is drawing from sexist influences (Frazetta et al) and recognizing these influences is good, but it doesn't make the final product any less sexist.

My point is less that they're also sexualized and more that they're all drawing from heroic aesthetics. That the female "heroic aesthetic" veers that way may be unfortunate. Also, the game's developers were full well aware of what they were doing when they took from these aesthetics. These aesthetics were created to give these impressions.

Also, I didn't say the amazon drew from Greek FEMALE ideals. She drew from Greek ATHLETIC ideals. I look at her and see the same body type of athletes depicted in Greek urns and the like, only with the same traits put on a female body (because there were, unfortunately, no female athletes among the classic Greeks as far as I'm aware).

Personally, I find the Sorceress design off-putting for sexiness. I find the Amazon's body fascinating, but not really sexy. The elf does hit one of my personal fetishes but overall I like the design more. In any case I look at the game and see much more of the heroic conan-esque aesthetic applied to every character than sexist design. But then again, maybe the designs weren't made to sex-appeal someone like me.

that boob on head looks reeeeeeally familiar.

You're good, Mr Artist. I anticipated the entirety of this comic from the title alone.

The funny part about this is turned out to be pretty much the exact opposite of what actually happened. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting an elf.

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