Digga', Please

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Blood Brain Barrier:

When has an elf in a fantasy world had a profession anything other than the one who kills things with arrows? Same goes with the dwarf and axeing stuff into oblivion.

You can file that under "The Point".

Wow. Now Dragon's Crown is racist. Guess I'll go get my popcorn...

Anyway, sometimes it really feels like people are eagerly looking for little details to complain about in games. That's not really a problem when you're (supposedly) just making fun of it, but then there are those that just have to consider it a big deal.

Eleuthera:

amaranth_dru:
No. Race is biological subset, ethnicity is a cultural subset. Not the same thing.

Example: Race - Caucasian
Ethnicities - Irish, Welsh, German, French, Slovak, etc.

OT: I see what you did there. Good form sirs. keep up the good work.

I'm aware of the difference between race and ethnicity, my question was more in line with "What do you call it if it's about ethnicity?"

Cultural ignorance? I don't think we have an -ism that describes that. Thanks for clarifying your statement though.

burningdragoon:

Blood Brain Barrier:

When has an elf in a fantasy world had a profession anything other than the one who kills things with arrows? Same goes with the dwarf and axeing stuff into oblivion.

You can file that under "The Point".

Why? Kangaroos hop. Monkeys swing and eat bananas. Different animals do different things.

Blood Brain Barrier:

burningdragoon:

Blood Brain Barrier:

When has an elf in a fantasy world had a profession anything other than the one who kills things with arrows? Same goes with the dwarf and axeing stuff into oblivion.

You can file that under "The Point".

Why? Kangaroos hop. Monkeys swing and eat bananas. Different animals do different things.

And humans... do lot's of different stuff. Again, the Point.

It's like if there was a Star Wars game with classes Jedi, Smuggler, Stormtrooper, and Twi'lek, where the Twi'lek is a stripper.

KOMega:
Oh, so because I'm an elf I must be good at archery and play with woodland creatures.
Pfft...
racist.

I dunno, you could also be an immortal, magically adept, aristocrat with an aloof manner, depending on the fantasy universe in question; but those are your only two lots, sorry. :P

burningdragoon:
And humans... do lot's of different stuff. Again, the Point.

It's like if there was a Star Wars game with classes Jedi, Smuggler, Stormtrooper, and Twi'lek, where the Twi'lek is a stripper.

I don't get the Star Wars comparison. So in Dragon's Crown there are humans doing lots of stuff (fighting, sorcering, wizarding), and elves and dwarves. I don't see the problem, unless you think elves and dwarves are humans too, in which case you'd be wrong.

Blood Brain Barrier:

burningdragoon:
And humans... do lot's of different stuff. Again, the Point.

It's like if there was a Star Wars game with classes Jedi, Smuggler, Stormtrooper, and Twi'lek, where the Twi'lek is a stripper.

I don't get the Star Wars comparison. So in Dragon's Crown there are humans doing lots of stuff (fighting, sorcering, wizarding), and elves and dwarves. I don't see the problem, unless you think elves and dwarves are humans too, in which case you'd be wrong.

Right, should have said "people" instead of "humans", unless you think elves and dwarves are just regular animals like kangaroos and monkeys, in which case you'd be wrong.

Ha! That is absolutey brilliant. Really loving this one.
If I ever write a fantasy story, remind me to make the dwarf an archer.

Eleuthera:

amaranth_dru:
No. Race is biological subset, ethnicity is a cultural subset. Not the same thing.

Example: Race - Caucasian
Ethnicities - Irish, Welsh, German, French, Slovak, etc.

OT: I see what you did there. Good form sirs. keep up the good work.

I'm aware of the difference between race and ethnicity, my question was more in line with "What do you call it if it's about ethnicity?"

I think you would just call it bigotry.

Hmmm...An interesting thing you've brought up Grey. Perhaps this is why there are so many over-sexualized women in the game. x( To distract us from the racism!

The Player: :/ Hey Vanillaware. Why aren't the Elf and the Dwarf just called-

*Vanillaware interrupts*

Vanillaware: :D Hey look at the Amazon's ass!

The Player: :/ Um...Okay. Hey, why isn't the Amazon called-

Vanillaware: :D Hey! Look at the Sorceress's tits!

The Player: :/.......Vanillaware, I think we have to have a talk...

:D Anyway, looking forward to getting the game.

Blood Brain Barrier:

When has an elf in a fantasy world had a profession anything other than the one who kills things with arrows? Same goes with the dwarf and axeing stuff into oblivion.

And also, elves and dwarves aren't a race. A race of what?? They're far more different from each other than, say, Africans are from Asians.

Middle Earth has elves that:
-Smith
-Mine
-Farm
-Build architecturally amazing cities
-Fill the "armoured knight" archetype quite well
-Sing people to death

There are also dwarf rangers (not to mention Fili and Kili, anyone?), which work in the exact same fashion as rangers of any other race (bow and arrows, in harmony with nature, and so on).

Given that that's the source of so much of this fantasy stuff, it's kind of amusing how much of the detail of the world was lost in the frantic copy+pasting.

DVS BSTrD:
Hooting over hooters
And they DID have a trailer for what the elf does.

They know what the elf does, the reason the Warrior is having trouble answering is because he's gonna make some generalisations about dwarves and elves, which could be seen as racist stereotypes. The reason it's strange is because the warrior, sorceress and wizard are named for what they do, not by who they were born as.

Sorry if this is a little patronising, it's just your post seemed to be missing the point. :/

SonofaJohannes:
Ha! That is absolutey brilliant. Really loving this one.
If I ever write a fantasy story, remind me to make the dwarf an archer.

The Hobbit and Narnia both had dwarf archers (in fact, in Narnia dwarfs were renowned for their archery). It's really hilarious how the stereotypes have gotten so locked in to archetypes that aren't even all that accurate to the sources it's all being based on.

Shit, everyone knows by now that the game tries to ape on past tropes and stereotypes, and people STILL complain/make hee-larrious jokes about how racist and sexist it is.

This just in guys! The well-known mystery novel Ten Little Niggers had a RACIST TITLE!

Do we judge by appearances, or by intention? You might say intention is hard to discern, but it's blindingly obvious that the devs were very aware of what they were doing here.

Piorn:
but I was thinking of the Fellowship of the Ring, which had several humans,

I wasn't aware that 'several' meant two.

It might not be the origin of this, but that specific setup has been burned into the subconcious.

I'd actually put this more on D&D. In Basic, humans got classes, non-humans didn't get classes and were only defined by their race.

It's an interesting and salient point about how we classify things in fantasy games. The thought of people getting riled up over unintentional fantasy racism is kinda creepy though.

Headsprouter:

DVS BSTrD:
Hooting over hooters
And they DID have a trailer for what the elf does.

They know what the elf does, the reason the Warrior is having trouble answering is because he's gonna make some generalizations about dwarves and elves, which could be seen as racist stereotypes. The reason it's strange is because the warrior, sorceress and wizard are named for what they do, not by who they were born as.

Sorry if this is a little patronizing, it's just your post seemed to be missing the point. :/

It's fine I did.
It seemed strange the way she was asking: You don't know what you do? If they had gone further
Warrior "You shoot arrows"
elf "Then shouldn't I be called an archer?"
Me "OOOOOOOOh"

Azahul:

SonofaJohannes:
Ha! That is absolutely brilliant. Really loving this one.
If I ever write a fantasy story, remind me to make the dwarf an archer.

The Hobbit and Narnia both had dwarf archers (in fact, in Narnia dwarfs were renowned for their archery). It's really hilarious how the stereotypes have gotten so locked in to archetypes that aren't even all that accurate to the sources it's all being based on.

Well to be fair physical attributes do play a role. Dwarves are by definition short, and even if they have great aim a regular sized person is going to be able to carry a bigger bow and thus shot further. Which is kinda the point of using a bow and arrow in the first place.

Abomination:
I'm actually kind'a disappointed we have a wizard and an amazon. I would have thought a better roster would have been a cleric and a thief/rogue, maybe even a paladin instead of the Fighter.

Amazon, Fighter and Dwarf are all just redundant versions of each other. The elf is at least a hybrid.

I actually made a topic relating to this a couple weeks ago. When you break every class down to the core mechanics, EVERYTHING is either a fighter, caster, or thief/rogue....or some hybrid of two of the three. In my opinion, ALL the classes are redundant in some form or another.

I didn't even get the joke at first! I guess I'm just too racist to see what's right in front of my eyes... Bows n' arrows are the first things that come to my mind when I think of Elves, I have a lot to learn before my coming-of-age ceremony.

They think elves and dwarves have it bad? Think about the always evil orcs.

LetalisK:
It's an interesting and salient point about how we classify things in fantasy games. The thought of people getting riled up over unintentional fantasy racism is kinda creepy though.

I don't know. The mental image I have of an elf and dwarf rights protest is pretty funny.

I would also like to point something out about the people about people suddenly yelling "this is not racist!1!" This comic is a joke and most of the response about the racism aren't that serious. Even if the game was put under some controversy, there's no need to be so defensive. Just take it in good humor.

The comic writers are always very self aware. They're just poking fun at the standard fantasy setting that Dragon Crown is satirizing.

Twenty Ninjas:
/snip

We know Agatha Christie's book was great despite the title and all that. So no need to be alarmed. There's not going to a be a sit-out for non-human fantasy race liberation.

What's all this racism talk? If these elves and dwarves are anything like Tolkien's (and let's face it, 80%-90% of modern fantasy copies Tolkien), then they're not just different races, but entirely different and separate cultures from different places. I bet a dwarf raised by elves would act like an elf.

P.S. Thanks

The wizard is an Albino

Funny enough In Oblivion/Skyrim and Amalur I play as Dark Elves

Ruisu:
Wow. Now Dragon's Crown is racist. Guess I'll go get my popcorn...

Ha, ha I know, right? This trainwreck gets better and better. Don't forget to stick around for the fireworks afterwards. :D

Once again proving that the Elf is a hundred times hotter than the Sorceress

Frission:

We know Agatha Christie's book was great despite the title and all that. So no need to be alarmed. There's not going to a be a sit-out for non-human fantasy race liberation.

Point was, this is not the kind of game you'd want to criticize for not pushing the boundaries of tolerance and redefining stereotypes. And yet everyone on the internet seems to be doing it.

It starts to grind your gears after a while.

Got damn it why do the Elves and Dwarves always act so freaking victimized. I mean all Dwarves ARE drunk miners and all Elves are tree hugging archers right?

So why are you guys using art from the last comic which included ENORMOUS BOOBS as the thumbnail?
Trying to get more views with sex? You misogynistic pigs!

Thank god someone on the internet is fighting for the rights of elves and dwarves to be whatever they want to be.

Twenty Ninjas:

Frission:

We know Agatha Christie's book was great despite the title and all that. So no need to be alarmed. There's not going to a be a sit-out for non-human fantasy race liberation.

Point was, this is not the kind of game you'd want to criticize for not pushing the boundaries of tolerance and redefining stereotypes. And yet everyone on the internet seems to be doing it.

It starts to grind your gears after a while.

Well it's still actually worrying when people can't laugh about something like this. It also doesn't mean that you have to treat every case the same. I highly doubt we're getting anyone who is going to seriously complain about the fantasy world racism and even if there was, the best response is to just use humor.

It's not like I have the moral high ground of saying don't get offended and angry, but the whole thing is such a non issue to get in a tizzy about.

Frission:
They think elves and dwarves have it bad? Think about the always evil orcs.

LetalisK:
It's an interesting and salient point about how we classify things in fantasy games. The thought of people getting riled up over unintentional fantasy racism is kinda creepy though.

I don't know. The mental image I have of an elf and dwarf rights protest is pretty funny.

I would also like to point something out about the people about people suddenly yelling "this is not racist!1!" This comic is a joke and most of the response about the racism aren't that serious. Even if the game was put under some controversy, there's no need to be so defensive. Just take it in good humor.

The comic writers are always very self aware. They're just poking fun at the standard fantasy setting that Dragon Crown is satirizing.

Oh, I agree, I just have no faith in humanity and am waiting for the day someone takes it way too seriously.

I am liking this topic. People just making fun and laughing at the stereotypes of classical fantasy (token races, guys steroided to oblivion, ultra fan-service).

Maybe that is the intention of the game. Friends killing and looting shit; laughing at the absurdity of it all. Classical brawlers were always like this.

Frission:

Well it's still actually worrying when people can't laugh about something like this. It also doesn't mean that you have to treat every case the same. I highly doubt we're getting anyone who is going to seriously complain about the fantasy world racism and even if there was, the best response is to just use humor.

It's not like I have the moral high ground of saying don't get offended and angry, but the whole thing is such a non issue to get in a tizzy about.

I guess I misread a few of the comments in this thread. Reading through a second time and it's a lot more obvious that people are joking.

Grahav:
I am liking this topic. People just making fun and laughing at the stereotypes of classical fantasy (token races, guys steroided to oblivion, ultra fan-service).

Maybe that is the intention of the game. Friends killing and looting shit; laughing at the absurdity of it all. Classical brawlers were always like this.

That was the point of this game. That was ALWAYS the point of this game.

You know what I love about this game: It's helping people to question things once again! I missed times like these. Now, one thing that really shocks me is the fact that people are questioning the game, first, because of how the art style of the female characters is so absurd. Well, we had two games with Joe Madureira in the head of the art team. We had Soul Calibur games since the Dreamcast, we had DOA an Ninja Gaiden. But now, now it's extreme? OK. About the races, well, I think that's western pop culture fault. Orcs Must Die had a Warrior, a Elf and a Dwarf as guardians. And their roles? Big human guardian is a warrior, slim, tall elf is an archer, small dwarf carry bombs and a hammer. Dragon Age? Dwarves can't use magic. Hell, Witcher follows the same route! So, they used a shortcut: Human can be other things, elves are slim archers, dwarves are made of hammers, bombs and beards!
If that is bad, if that is strange, if that is not funny, this is just how the pop culture works. That needs to change first.

Twenty Ninjas:
Shit, everyone knows by now that the game tries to ape on past tropes and stereotypes, and people STILL complain/make hee-larrious jokes about how racist and sexist it is.

This just in guys! The well-known mystery novel Ten Little Niggers had a RACIST TITLE!

Do we judge by appearances, or by intention? You might say intention is hard to discern, but it's blindingly obvious that the devs were very aware of what they were doing here.

Evidently you're taking this about 100% more seriously than any rational person should, but I'm fascinated by the idea that knowingly making something sexist/racist somehow excuses the fact it's sexist/racist.

Covarr:
I bet a dwarf raised by elves would act like an elf.

P.S. Thanks

and how would that Elf act, MR. RACIST?

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