Jimquisition: Dragon's Frown

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Dragon's Frown

Oh yes, it's another video about reviews and things. Not quite the usual flavor, but certainly something that cannot be repeated enough.

Watch Video

As unpleasant as it may be we're just going to have to accept the fact that cups of D just aren't everybody's cup of T.

That was the best use of a Face hugger plushie in the history of the Internet. 10/10. Video games are done.

So Jim, every time you mention Dynasty warriors 8 we get Zhang he on screen fighting against the yellow Turbans. Is he your favourite character?

The facehugger attacks once again. Jim, I fear that you never may escape Aliens: Colonial Marines.
... ever.
(Loved your Lets Play of the DLC by the way. :3)

*ahem*

Now onto the topic at hand. It does feel that the gaming community is spoiled (In my opinion), games as you said that people complain and demand a '10/10' (Whatever 10/10 is these days. It feels like 10/10 should be impossible to achieve). It is annoying that the single bad review is gaining all of the press now instead of the praise.

Now in my opinion, the character design is the thing that turns me off this game. Call it satire, parody of how we portray gaming/RPG characters but ...

DVS BSTrD:
As unpleasant as it may be we're just going to have to accept the fact that cups of D just aren't everybody's cup of T.

As this guy says ... big bosoms are not not my thing.
BUT WAIT. I can just choose another character, the elf right?
Yeah true.

I guess I can't make my final opinion up until I played the damn game.
So I remain neutral on the subject.

Basically ... I agree with what you said.

...
...
Also I think "The Last of Us" deserves a seven.
Just to troll people, I actually haven't played the game so once more I remain neutral on it.

EDIT: I also feel like I should play Dynasty Warriors 8 and try to see what Jim sees in it.
Who knows, it might revive my love for the series. :D

Hades:
So Jim, every time you mention Dynasty warriors 8 we get Zhang he on screen fighting against the yellow Turbans. Is he your favourite character?

He is.

I also captured over an hour of DW8 footage for Destructoid's video review and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna squeeze my money's worth out of it every time I mention the game.

"I CAN'T CALM DOWN!!! A reviewer didn't give the score i wanted them to give which is based on their personal opinion. How is that possible! It can't be that he scored it only a passing grade rather than a full showering of praise because after all I liked the game!

I have to quickly question his credentials, sexuality, size of his penis and his overall intelligence so as to protect the game I like from his obviously wrong opinion about it."

That's about the breast you can expect from the masses of tits that call themselves fans. The mere mammary of how people reacted in the past when a reviewer busts out a score lower than they expected is just pathetic. Better to nip this in the bud and jug along just ignoring them.

This game has huge boobs in it.

Wait... This was actually a thing? People actually got bent out of shape enough over a single review, and do so on a regular enough basis, that Jim felt he should do an episode about this? ... Fantastic.

So... the game scored 6.5/10, or 65%, in one review. It scored more than half marks. And this is a *bad* thing?

This is why numerical quantification of a subjective opinion is useless.

Might just be me, but I always feel better if there is negative criticism about something, or rather, two or multiple sides to something.

I don't know how to explain it but I always get a weird feeling if something is highly loved by every single person.

shirkbot:
Wait... This was actually a thing? People actually got bent out of shape enough over a single review, and do so on a regular enough basis, that Jim felt he should do an episode about this? ... Fantastic.

OOOOOH yes. In fact, it happens so much it has its own page on TVTropes that details each and every time it happens. Read more about it here. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EightPointEight

Dat feminist elephant in the room.
Let's just try not to whiteknight this time and as reasonable people discuss reviews, the reviewer, review scores and such. Can we do that? anyone with me?
Oh well here goes:

For myself i would just think that you need to take each review with a grain of salt. TB talked about this as reasonably as you would except him to in: watch?v=s5Q5KD7zwBs


We have had Zero Punctuation, Extra Credits and GT to some extent also dismiss the notion that: Anything below 10 is shit.
Its either a top score or no score at all.
9.5/10 "It's pretty ok" - IGN.
9.7/10 "Dont waste your time" - Kotaku (then again anyone who refers to "So you can read over at Kotaku" should be slapped with a bad dragon dildo)

You as a "consumer" of said review still has the minimum responsibility of doing your "research" into the reviewer yourself. You wouldnt take a review on a Final Fantasy title from a guy who systematically bashes on JRPGS seriously, because you would know that the person in question or the site in question is biased, every review is, its subjective.
You would go to someone who has a love for JRPGS to confirm your own bias (Love to hate episode recall)

My one main objection to most negative reviews and especially in the case of Dragons Crown is not that the review score was "low" by todays standards but rather the justification of said score in relation to the norm and what was subjective and what was objective.
More often than not, reviewers who slap a "shockingly bad score" on a cherished title are either just asking for attention and traffic *cough* Kotaku *cough* or try to justify their subjective opinions as having objectively negative impacts on the game.

Take an example such as FOV options. If a cherished game is scored mostly 10s yet gets a 6 or 7 from someone who subjectively finds that low FOV gives headaches and nausiating effects. I would defend that score because there is some objective truth to that. Low FOV can definitely cause headaches to some players and thus i would say that this justification is valid to the review score.

In this case however most of the justification behind the low score of dragons crown has little to do with what the actual game offers in its mechanics and any type of objective aspect, but rather:
"How dare a game developer design a character that uses an artstyle that i dont find visually appealing. I wil now use this highly biased and subjective perspective as an objective justification to bash on this game hurr durr" - watch?v=DP27mQ36_28

We're unlikely to have real respect as a group because too many of us refuse to grow up or at the very least act childish too often. I respect your efforts Jim and hope they have some effect.

Here I figured that the video would be about consumers review bombing Dragons Crown and then claiming that the good scores were from those that were bought or something and that low scores are the "Real" reviews. Isn't that what happened with Mass Effect 3?

For the record this game does nothing for me so I have no idea what any scores are.

Also Jim, the argument that somehow "hardcore gamers" defend homogenization of video games and video game mechanics/type of games, correlates with the same people or other people bashing down on low review scores by todays standards, is a really flawed argument.

correlation does not imply causation, Jim.

The fact that some people like to defend generic homogenized video game series and titles has NOTHING to do with review scores and the homogenization of "Its either a 10 or its shit".

shirkbot:
Wait... This was actually a thing? People actually got bent out of shape enough over a single review, and do so on a regular enough basis, that Jim felt he should do an episode about this? ... Fantastic.

Yes what an odd world we live in that if someone doesn't agree with you on something, they feel offended and dedicate all their time to explaining why you should agree with their opinion.

I would agree however with the argument that its good with variation of opinions. It just troubles me that fortunately or unfortunately because of the internet, stupid people are allowed to hold stupid opinions with equally stupid justification.
I dont object to "low review scores" or "different opinions" i just object to stupid justification of said opinions that something that only you or a few select people find PERSONALLY and SUBJECTIVELY bad about a game, does not mean its objectively bad and that your review is then valid because "I have the right to my own opinion".
Yes you do, but you can still be objectively wrong.

I think its fine that some people subjectively believe that the earth is objectively flat.
Theyre stupid and are objectively wrong of course but i dont believe we should censor or try and delete said perspectives and views from the internet.
We should however mock them and there is nothing wrong with calling people out on their bullshit for being, well, bullshit.

Not all "hardcore gamers" or even regular people who critisize the critique of other critics are butthurt asshole trolls, Jim.

So Jim, every time you mention Dynasty warriors 8 we get Zhang he on screen fighting against the yellow Turbans. Is he your favorite character?

you don't listen to podtoid do you?

also I'm sure I'll love Dragon's Crown but I will not stop requesting for Freaky Constantina as a DLC add on... YEAH YEAH!
now being "serious" people seem to be complaining for this one review but like Jim said I don't see how this affect us, us being the consumers who were already committed to buying the game and letting our wallets speak of our support regardless of reviews. If anything this review would only affect those people that were on the fence about buying the game and in today's world you have to be more than stupid to base your decisions in just 1 review

TheProfessor234:
Might just be me, but I always feel better if there is negative criticism about something, or rather, two or multiple sides to something.

I don't know how to explain it but I always get a weird feeling if something is highly loved by every single person.

Variation is always good, the problem lies in the justification of it

Mulberry:
So... the game scored 6.5/10, or 65%, in one review. It scored more than half marks. And this is a *bad* thing?

This is why numerical quantification of a subjective opinion is useless.

Actually, I miss the old system EGM used several years ago where they had 3 reviewers giving numeric scores and the review itself was basically just all 3 talking to each other. It was actually pretty thorough, and you could always see where everyone was coming from.

Chessrook44:
OOOOOH yes. In fact, it happens so much it has its own page on TVTropes that details each and every time it happens. Read more about it here. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EightPointEight

You know, I don't have much faith in humanity left, and things like this chip away at the remainder a little more every day. I hate the internet. Almost as much as I love TVTropes.

Wow I had no idea a less than ferpect review when a lot of others give it high scores would cause so many problems. I would have thought it would be the other way around when a fairly bland and straight copy + paste sequal gets 9-10/10 from sites pushing it's score up when the game probably isn't worth the score. Then you have the likes of Sim Shitty which seems to have mostly favourable reviews even though no-one could play it for months and was more or less worse than it's prequels.

Anyway how prevalent is score buying in the review industry Jim?

I love Jim's talent for shifting the debate back to put the bigoted assholes on the defensive.

Monxeroth:
Also Jim, the argument that somehow "hardcore gamers" defend homogenization of video games and video game mechanics/type of games, correlates with the same people or other people bashing down on low review scores by todays standards, is a really flawed argument.

correlation does not imply causation, Jim.

The fact that some people like to defend generic homogenized video game series and titles has NOTHING to do with review scores and the homogenization of "Its either a 10 or its shit".

Um, you missed the point of what he was saying. He's saying, demanding homogenization of the game press is the same PROCESS as demanding homogenization of games, regardless of any cause-and-effect correlation.

shirkbot:

Chessrook44:
OOOOOH yes. In fact, it happens so much it has its own page on TVTropes that details each and every time it happens. Read more about it here. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EightPointEight

You know, I don't have much faith in humanity left, and things like this chip away at the remainder a little more every day. I hate the internet. Almost as much as I love TVTropes.

Dear God, if that's true stay far away from NotAlwaysRight. That little bit of faith will go flying out the window.

shirkbot:
Wait... This was actually a thing? People actually got bent out of shape enough over a single review, and do so on a regular enough basis, that Jim felt he should do an episode about this? ... Fantastic.

Part (I must stress, though, only PART) of the criticism of the game made in the review was from the perspective of perceived sexual objectification of some of the female characters. Any criticism of a video game from that perspective draws out what seems to be legions of furious fanboys (but is more likely a handful of really bitter loudmouths), absolutely incensed at the suggestion that any aspect of the gaming industry might have any issues whatsoever with its portrayal of women.

I think that's the case here - less that people were mad at one lowish score of an otherwise popular and well reviewed game, and more a kneejerk reaction to the dread specter of feminism from an increasingly isolated crowd of besieged old guard gamer boys terrified of the dirty horde of cootie-carriers come to steal their games away.

Not that in this case there wouldn't have been legitimate reasons of art style and alternative character choices with which to mount a defense of the game. And even if one did agree, as I do, that a desire to pander to the prurient interests of the presumed hetmale audience has led to bizzare artistic choices that have done the game a disservice, that's not the same as saying everything about the game is terrible or enjoying the game would make you a bad person. However, merely having the discussion grants the issue of female representation in games more credence than some can stomach.

Yeah it's ludicrous to get upset over this of all things, it's not like they gave a 4 to Vanquish or something. I'd sooner go with a score of 6.5 than the various 9s, since the game did end up being a disappointment on some levels, particularly in terms of certain bosses/enemies, its repetitive nature and indeed some of its more dubious artistic depictions.

I never gonna get the crying of low scores in a system where the numbers means next to nothing. Can someone tell me the difference between a 8.5 and a 9.0?

People defending DC: Ignore boobs,talk about gameplay.
People who hated it: Ignore gameplay, talk about boobs.

I feel in the eye of the hurricane now, but I'm still getting this, my only question now is if I should get this on PS3 or Vita.

Maybe I should do a comic about this...

Mulberry:
So... the game scored 6.5/10, or 65%, in one review. It scored more than half marks. And this is a *bad* thing?

This is why numerical quantification of a subjective opinion is useless.

Remember when people got all uppity when Jim gave Gears of War 3 an 8/10? He did an episode on it.

There is a major "Everyone must like what I like because I like and therefore it is universally good" bias with gamers.

Chessrook44:

shirkbot:

Chessrook44:
OOOOOH yes. In fact, it happens so much it has its own page on TVTropes that details each and every time it happens. Read more about it here. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EightPointEight

You know, I don't have much faith in humanity left, and things like this chip away at the remainder a little more every day. I hate the internet. Almost as much as I love TVTropes.

Dear God, if that's true stay far away from NotAlwaysRight. That little bit of faith will go flying out the window.

Was there any to have in the first place?

Goliath100:
I never gonna get the crying of low scores in a system where the numbers means next to nothing. Can someone tell me the difference between a 8.5 and a 9.0?

0.5.

No, really, I'm not trying to be clever. In all honesty there's no difference between them except one is slightly higher.

....ok maybe I'm trying to be a little clever.

Was that the FF7 music at the start?

DW8 was an awesome game. Loved it. Dont give a shit if people think its a big pile of crap. End of the day, you hating it doesnt stop me from enjoying it. An thats the problem. Does a review of 6.5 out of 10 really stop you from loving a game you enjoy playing? Low review scores are fine, and a review that says why they hate it is a great. You can disagree and thats fine. I find beat em ups boring and repetitive but then those people who love beat em ups would find DW8 boring an repetitive. We all get different enjoyment from different things. But to need everyone to love what we love is just immature and shows how insecure those people are.

Just as a pointer, this isn't the first time it's happened. One example that quickly comes to mind is Supreme Commander. One website had the audacity to give it a 5/10, citing issues such as it's performance on lower end systems. The review however was later removed due to fan pressure, if you can believe it.

Earthfield:
People defending DC: Ignore boobs,talk about gameplay.
People who hated it: Ignore gameplay, talk about boobs.

I feel in the eye of the hurricane now, but I'm still getting this, my only question now is if I should get this on PS3 or Vita.

Maybe I should do a comic about this...

Dat generalisation.
So according to this theres only one perspective to defend DC on and also only one to hate it on...well ok

Yes please do and add more to the shitposting pile :L
Maybe i should write an article on kotaku about this...

Sylocat:
I love Jim's talent for shifting the debate back to put the bigoted assholes on the defensive.

Monxeroth:
Also Jim, the argument that somehow "hardcore gamers" defend homogenization of video games and video game mechanics/type of games, correlates with the same people or other people bashing down on low review scores by todays standards, is a really flawed argument.

correlation does not imply causation, Jim.

The fact that some people like to defend generic homogenized video game series and titles has NOTHING to do with review scores and the homogenization of "Its either a 10 or its shit".

Um, you missed the point of what he was saying. He's saying, demanding homogenization of the game press is the same PROCESS as demanding homogenization of games, regardless of any cause-and-effect correlation.

Well, too bad that argument is also invalid and also holds no merit because it really isnt the same principle. One relies simply on what scale we categorize things on and how big or small that scale is. The other on how we judge things put on that scale, ie, two completely different ideas and principles. Thanks for trying though

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