How to Talk About Games #1

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GundamSentinel:
Preaching to the choir, but necessary nonetheless. *grimface*

canadamus_prime:
"...most gamers lack the basic cognitive toolset..."
That's putting it mildly.

But then again, that can be said about almost anyone. :)

Yeah I don't really think gamers are any worse than people in general.

What if Valve attempted a cupcake filled with glass shards and succeeded, how do you appreciate that? Or what if they claimed that was what they were going for after all the negative reviews ticked in?

Corporate marketing spin can make it really hard to create good arguments.

I love this comic and you guys rock. Never change.

...

Seriously, ever. *glares and shakes fist menacingly*

I'm just here to say that "From Metacritic's heart, I stab at thee" made me giggle.

KOMega:
I don't know....
Cross-eyed zombie pirate cyborg extendo-arm pistol-hand Hitler does sound crazy enough to work.

Those were actually the exact words that were uttered just before Project Second Dawn was greenlit.

It's a pity this isn't more pithy, I can see it being a quotable way of framing a discussion about gaming if only it were wittier.

This comic is a non delicious cupcake filled with pubes and shards of glass.

See? Doesn't work.

From Metacritics heart, I stab at thee.
For Hate's sake, I use my last mod wrath, at...thee...

I love you, Grey.

Bostur:

What if Valve attempted a cupcake filled with glass shards and succeeded, how do you appreciate that? Or what if they claimed that was what they were going for after all the negative reviews ticked in?

Don't forget the pubes. The pubes are important.

The constant harping and controversy around Dragon's Crown over one (maybe two) female character(s) is really starting to feel like nothing but bandwagoning and link-baiting for page-hit revenue on the part of Internet game journalists. There are probably many more games (the entire Dead or Alive series springs immediately to my mind) that are more deserving of this kind of constant bantering about how women are poorly depicted in games.

To be clear, I'm not trying to defend Dragon's Crown (though, I will admit I am interested in getting the game because I happen to like the art-style and the throwback to some old-school beat-'em-up action), nor am I trying to say that there shouldn't be a dialog about how women are objectified or not given equal heroic idealization as their male counterparts. But, we should have a DIALOG, not the constant shameful, shallowly researched link-baiting that always seems to pervade online journalism, in general. If we want to deal with the poor depiction of women in video games, let's look at multiple examples and critically examine the ways in which women are poorly portrayed in the games compared to males. Even further, examine the actual percentage of games with significant female characters where the female is placed in an objectified or diminutive role compared to the male characters. Let's examine the percentage of games in which the female is portrayed as just a trophy or object to be won, or she is portrayed as simply wallpapering to the background of the game. Further, compare these percentages for the same occurrence of these aspects with male characters.

If we're really going to go on about this, let's actually look at the full picture of the problem and determine just how severe the issue really is, instead of just singling out one particular game and then writing a bunch of emotion-ladened trollage on the matter; let's have more than one data point. Let's see the Internet actually do some insightful research-journalism, for once, rather than the usual hastily written, off-the-top-of-the-head link-baiting for page-view revenue.

BTW, that first image panel was hilarious.

(Apologies for the sudden rant, but I'm just tired of the extreme, microscopic focus on one game, when the problem is much larger than that. At least the one game is fairly consistent with its outlandishness, unlike with some of the other games.)

ADDENDUM: I realized after posting that this rant was probably off-topic to the comic, so I understand if it or I get moderated. However, there was some mention of Dragon's Crown in context that precipitated it. Just to be clear, the rant is not directed specifically at Grey or Corey, but to the general controversy that has been surrounding this one game and the tiresome microscopic focus it has received. This was just simply the pot finally boiling over.

This strip was ok in it's basic principle, however I feel that the examples discriminate against those of us who love Hitler, but hate cupcakes. You will be hearing from my lawyers shortly.

Dude, you just can't tease human arsehole owls and not deliver! BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!

canadamus_prime:
"...most gamers lack the basic cognitive toolset..."
That's putting it mildly.

And if you dared to post some comment like this in forums and not in comics you would receive a nice warning.

Jandau:
Not only are you completely correct, I like the sneak punch you took at Gearbox. Seriously, every time I hear they are making something new, I cringe...

Whenever I hear the name Gearbox I cringe as well and silently whisper to myself "Please dont fuck up homeworld, Please dont fuck up homeworld, Please dont fuck up homeworld..." over, and over again.

canadamus_prime:

GundamSentinel:
Preaching to the choir, but necessary nonetheless. *grimface*

canadamus_prime:
"...most gamers lack the basic cognitive toolset..."
That's putting it mildly.

But then again, that can be said about almost anyone. :)

Well anyone on the Internet anyway.

You sir truly must get out more! It applies to almost anyone on the internet or off. A large number of people I deal with I am forced to ask myself how these people didnt starve to death with their lack of common sense.

This was great in my opinion and I, for one- loved it so. Especially the middle one because Erin's expression is priceless lol.

I believe what i've learned from this was regardless of liking/disliking a game or concepts of a game... there's still much to say in terms of positives/negatives. For example, despite I love Dark Souls, there are flaws and I shouldn't get mad at people who dislike the game or parts of it. As for Dragon's Crown, I dislike the female character designs but I won't hate the people who love the game and I have to try the game itself before I reach a conclusion.

If i'm wrong on this, I do apologize lol.

cupcake filled with glass & pubes and wellmade hitler need to become something

Bodyless:

Beside the characters, the level design was also awful. To be more specific: they reduced the gameplay to a run & gun style that was extremly exhausting and had exactly 0% horror in it.

The first one had horror in it? XD

Though I do think L4D tried to have some horror in it. When it failed spectacularly, I think Valve just said "Fuck it" and stopped trying.

Wow, being dead for nearly 70 years makes you pack on a couple of pounds.

People will always get subjective and objective mixed up, even if they don't know what that means. They will always say "this is the best/worst ever" ('cos you know there is no grey area on the net, it's either God given or Satan spawn) and not "it's good/bad in this way but ...."

I think people needing numbers to rate things on is part of the problem, what does 7 out of 10 actually mean? Without knowing the gaming mindset, 7 out of 10 means "better than average" but we all know that it means "kind of sucks as a whole" but it doesn't convey what is good or bad about it.

As long as sites use numbers we will be stuck in a binary best/worst situation, I think.

TheSYLOH:

spwatkins:

TiberiusEsuriens:
Last panel reminds me of Mecha-Hitler from "Nazis at the Center of the Earth." If any of you have also actually seen that movie, let's share in our pain. To everyone else, STAY AWAY (unless you drink the tears of dead babies).

Thanks for the reminder! I just started reflexively trying to claw my eyeballs out again! (and I just got the bandages off from the last time)

Was it significantly worse than Nazis on the moon?
Iron Sky was one of the most ENJOYABLY BAD movies ever.

Iron Sky was awesome. "Nazis at the Center of the Earth" was made by a company called "The Asylum" that seems to operate by making cheap knock-offs of currently popular movies as well as a lot of those Syfy channel movies like the recently notorious "Sharknado". The production values, writing, and acting in their movies make Troma look like Dreamworks by comparison. Somehow they got an actress I had heard of (Dominique Swain) to appear, it must be pretty much the nadir of her career.
Some movies are *so* bad that they are just plain bad.

LetalisK:
The first one had horror in it? XD

Some, yes. By just giving you enough to survive. Sequel? Goes "Here, have those ten gazillion guns!" in every map.

I played L4D1 after L4D2. I found L4D1 dull and forgettable in comparison. Indeed, I don't really remember anything that happened in it. L4D2, in contrast, each level was different and highly memorable. Also, it was a lot harder, better weapons notwithstanding.

Ukomba:
This comic kinds of comes off like a direct dig at Yahtzee.

To be fair, ZP would be a whole lot less interesting if Yahtzee didn't over-exaggerate his opinions.

That said, if every flamingly enraged nutcase on the internet was funny, and smarmingly British, I think there'd be no need for this comic to exist.

(I managed to invent two new adverbs in a single sentence. hah!)

Undomesticated Equine:

canadamus_prime:
"...most gamers lack the basic cognitive toolset..."
That's putting it mildly.

And if you dared to post some comment like this in forums and not in comics you would receive a nice warning.

False. I've said this before in less pleasant terms, and no one cared.

OT: Heh. I hope this is more than a two-parter.

Robyrt:
Sure, but this is pretty reductive. It's like saying, "All stories are either about leaving town, or a stranger coming to town." True as far as it goes, but doesn't do much for you.

Hence "Part 1".

He'll expand on it next week, and maybe further on.

Pyrian:
I played L4D1 after L4D2. I found L4D1 dull and forgettable in comparison. Indeed, I don't really remember anything that happened in it. L4D2, in contrast, each level was different and highly memorable. Also, it was a lot harder, better weapons notwithstanding.

Harder? Excuse me while I go and laugh.

...

Okay, I'm back - because you surely must be joking. L4D2 is everything BUT hard. I solo'd the campaigns there in record-time without any kind of effort.
And when I compare the two games, L4D2 is the bland game out of the two. Most of the weapons reskins of others - and ALL are nerfed compared to L4D1.

Bindal:

But what makes the game suck are the bugs, the countless weaponspawns per map, the easy gameplay, the dumber AI, the nerfed Special Infected, the shorter maps, the overpowered melee-weapons, the bright and more colorful lightning...

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!

I'll let you say those other things, but calling the the melee weapons overpowered is like calling a a kitty ferocious. Sure, they can do damage, but they don't even come close to the damage that their relatives can dish out. To top it off, melee weapons don't even fit with the overall idea of fighting waves/hordes of enemies, something that the L4D games were primarily built to facilitate.

A Bit More OT: It really does disappoint me that the noisier/more active part of the gaming community has no grasp on the concept of subjectivity. If you're fine with something, then go ahead and enjoy it. If someone else is not okay with that something, then let them be not-fine with it. It's not that hard to not care, everybody.

Did they cock it up, or did they make it better? Depending on who you ask, cyborg Hitler with a gun for a hand could be an improvement. And I'm sure there are people, (weird, weird people) that prefer poopcakes coated with glass to actual people food.
Alternatively, she took a bite out of said poopcake because she has it and there are starving children in Africa. Not having access to said children to eat, she settled for the cupcake.

Actually, wasn't it some fucknut at Kotaku who first took umbrage with art style, and the artist trolled him back?

Oh, but by all means ignore this little fact to perpetuate this narrative that all gamers are "loud assholes", when the press is calling an artist's designs, "something only a 14 year old boy would like?"

Bindal:
L4D2 is everything BUT hard. I solo'd the campaigns there in record-time without any kind of effort.

Solo'ing L4D2 is an incredible claim; I understand it's been done, but it's extremely difficult, as the game was not designed to be played that way and there are many attacks which are easily survivable with help but automatic death without, and there are items that must be carried that render you largely incapable of defending yourself for the duration. Solo'ing L4D2 "without any kind of effort" is an outright not-credible claim.

Grey Carter:
How to Talk About Games #1

A gentleman's guide to discussing the games o' video.

Read Full Article

Thank you guys for calling gearbox out on there shittyness. Its about time we gamers quit kissing there ass for making like one decent series and the rest crap.

I guess konami is kinda the same in this regard.

Deathfish15:
What has Valve made that's full of pubes and broken shards of glass?

At first glance that cupcake looked like it was made of poop, as well as glass shards and pubes.

V8 Ninja:

Bindal:

But what makes the game suck are the bugs, the countless weaponspawns per map, the easy gameplay, the dumber AI, the nerfed Special Infected, the shorter maps, the overpowered melee-weapons, the bright and more colorful lightning...

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!

I'll let you say those other things, but calling the the melee weapons overpowered is like calling a a kitty ferocious. Sure, they can do damage, but they don't even come close to the damage that their relatives can dish out. To top it off, melee weapons don't even fit with the overall idea of fighting waves/hordes of enemies, something that the L4D games were primarily built to facilitate.

They can kill multiple enemies in one hit even on the highest possible difficulty and kills even Witches in four hits regardless of difficulty. Yes, they are overpowered. There is nothing to discuss here.
Seriously, I rocked Hard Rain Solo Expert with a Katana as my ONLY weapon (except against Tanks and Witches, were I used a Shotgun).
That makes the Melee-weapons a book-example of "overpowered weapon".

Pyrian:

Bindal:
L4D2 is everything BUT hard. I solo'd the campaigns there in record-time without any kind of effort.

Solo'ing L4D2 is an incredible claim; I understand it's been done, but it's extremely difficult, as the game was not designed to be played that way and there are many attacks which are easily survivable with help but automatic death without, and there are items that must be carried that render you largely incapable of defending yourself for the duration. Solo'ing L4D2 "without any kind of effort" is an outright not-credible claim.

It's not an incredible claim. It's freaking easy. The Sequel gives you so many tools so you don't need to rely on teammates any more, it's not even funny. On top of that, it spawns so little enemies, you sometimes wonder if you accidentally disabled the AI-Director.

IceForce:
Thanks for this bit. It'll fit nicely into quite a few of the gaming threads we get here.


image

So very true. I even catch myself agreeing with one side or the other sometimes!

Ukomba:
This comic kinds of comes off like a direct dig at Yahtzee.

How so? Which of his ZP videos or XP columns did this comic argue against?

Pet peeve stumbled upon!

There's no such thing as a "Valid Opinion"

In order for something to be Valid, it must be based in fact. Opinions by their very definition, cannot be facts.

geizr:
The constant harping and controversy around Dragon's Crown over one (maybe two) female character(s) is really starting to feel like nothing but bandwagoning and link-baiting for page-hit revenue on the part of Internet game journalists.

We'll be covering this in later issues, but casting slurs on their opponent's motivations rather than addressing their points is the first sign of an idiot. Not saying you are one, I'm just saying that opening your argument with the equivalent of "well people are only saying this because they want money" is beneath you and only serves to undermine your point. As is in the bandwagon fallacy (just because an opinion is popular does not make it wrong.) Also, you haven't really been paying attention if you think the Sorceress and the Amazon are the only controversial depictions of female characters in the game.

Machine Man 1992:
Actually, wasn't it some fucknut at Kotaku who first took umbrage with art style, and the artist trolled him back?

Oh, but by all means ignore this little fact to perpetuate this narrative that all gamers are "loud assholes", when the press is calling an artist's designs, "something only a 14 year old boy would like?"

1: Jason Schrierer's (terrible) Kotaku piece was not the first time someone pointed out the game's artwork could be offensive to some.

2: How does one poorly written piece from one site excuse shitty responses to multiple, well-written reviews on completely different sites?

Bindal:

V8 Ninja:

Bindal:

But what makes the game suck are the bugs, the countless weaponspawns per map, the easy gameplay, the dumber AI, the nerfed Special Infected, the shorter maps, the overpowered melee-weapons, the bright and more colorful lightning...

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!

I'll let you say those other things, but calling the the melee weapons overpowered is like calling a a kitty ferocious. Sure, they can do damage, but they don't even come close to the damage that their relatives can dish out. To top it off, melee weapons don't even fit with the overall idea of fighting waves/hordes of enemies, something that the L4D games were primarily built to facilitate.

They can kill multiple enemies in one hit even on the highest possible difficulty and kills even Witches in four hits regardless of difficulty. Yes, they are overpowered. There is nothing to discuss here.
Seriously, I rocked Hard Rain Solo Expert with a Katana as my ONLY weapon (except against Tanks and Witches, were I used a Shotgun).
That makes the Melee-weapons a book-example of "overpowered weapon".

I'll admit, my experience playing the L4D games has always been on the Normal and Hard difficulties, but I still can't quite understand the claims of power you're giving to the melee weapons. Whenever I've used a melee weapon, I've rarely been able to kill more than a single zombie with one shot. And even then, melee weapons have not always guaranteed me one-hit kills. Maybe I'm doing it wrong or something, but swinging around melee weapons has not helped me whatsoever.

Draconalis:
Pet peeve stumbled upon!

There's no such thing as a "Valid Opinion"

In order for something to be Valid, it must be based in fact. Opinions by their very definition, cannot be facts.

Nope. Valid can mean simply well-argued or justified. I should have had "can be" in there though.

V8 Ninja:
I'll admit, my experience playing the L4D games has always been on the Normal and Hard difficulties, but I still can't quite understand the claims of power you're giving to the melee weapons. Whenever I've used a melee weapon, I've rarely been able to kill more than a single zombie with one shot. And even then, melee weapons have not always guaranteed me one-hit kills. Maybe I'm doing it wrong or something, but swinging around melee weapons has not helped me whatsoever.

You probably are just bad with them because the melee-weapons are in fact hardcoded to insta-gib enemies - unless it's a Witch (4 hits), Tank (20 hits) or Charger (3 hits). And yes, it is completely indiependet from difficulty, meaning they can one-hit-kill on Realism Expert commons.

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