How to Talk About Games #1

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Interesting how it takes a Gearbox T-shirt to really highlight that Hitler was kind of an emo slob.

That's it - I'm totally canceling my Reincarnated-Hitler preorder. I don't care that it comes with the Berchtesgaden bonus map.

Grey Carter:

Machine Man 1992:
Actually, wasn't it some fucknut at Kotaku who first took umbrage with art style, and the artist trolled him back?

Oh, but by all means ignore this little fact to perpetuate this narrative that all gamers are "loud assholes", when the press is calling an artist's designs, "something only a 14 year old boy would like?"

1: Jason Schrierer's (terrible) Kotaku piece was not the first time someone pointed out the game's artwork could be offensive to some.

2: How does one poorly written piece from one site excuse shitty responses to multiple, well-written reviews on completely different sites?

Two responses popped into my head at the same time, but they basically boiled down to, "Hey, glass houses. I hold professionals in the field to the higher standard than Joe Q Public. Those who take comments on the internet seriously need to take a deep breath, step back, and stop being so bloody serious all the time."

Also, how is having an exaggerated art style "offensive?" Is this more of that PC bullshit? You should know that political correctness was invented by the Soviets!

This is the WORST STRIP EVER. OBVIOUSLY it was written by Robohitler.

(tongue -> cheek for the cognitively disabled)

Machine Man 1992:
Two responses popped into my head at the same time, but they basically boiled down to, "Hey, glass houses. I hold professionals in the field to the higher standard than Joe Q Public. Those who take comments on the internet seriously need to take a deep breath, step back, and stop being so bloody serious all the time."

Also, how is having an exaggerated art style "offensive?" Is this more of that PC bullshit? You should know that political correctness was invented by the Soviets!

So were postcodes and the first video recorder. What's your point?

Darth_Payn:

IceForce:
Thanks for this bit. It'll fit nicely into quite a few of the gaming threads we get here.


image

So very true. I even catch myself agreeing with one side or the other sometimes!

Ukomba:
This comic kinds of comes off like a direct dig at Yahtzee.

How so? Which of his ZP videos or XP columns did this comic argue against?

Just that Yahtzee in his ZP videos tends to be very binary (almost always towards the bad for comedy sake). Specifically, the panel with the "Non-Delicious cupcake filled with pubes and shards of glass" just comes off like something he'd say in his review. Not only does it look like a cupcake made of sh*t, have broken glass and pubes in it, but also what appears to be a condom. I wouldn't be surprised if he's used that exact analogy in the past to describe a game or an aspect of a game.

So, you're suggesting there should be a conversation about how to resurrect Hitler better? To make shining examples of games we don't want?

I hate to say it Grey but this won't help... The people who need it most won't read it.

Machine Man 1992:

Grey Carter:

1: Jason Schrierer's (terrible) Kotaku piece was not the first time someone pointed out the game's artwork could be offensive to some.

Also, how is having an exaggerated art style "offensive?" Is this more of that PC bullshit? You should know that political correctness was invented by the Soviets!

Offensive to some, not to all. Not necessarily to him, or you, or I. I can think of a few people who have a stick up their ass who might take offence.

Unless you're trying (poorly) to be sarcastic, your statement would imply a remarkably small understanding of society on your part, if you think that nobody would bat an eyelid at a character model with back-breakingly big breasts.

HAHAHAHAHA! Oh man, this is the best comic you've ever done! Bravo bravo encore encore!

So, am I to take from this that, while I (and many others) were making breast puns in the comments section of last week's comic about Dragon's Crown, there was apparently a sizable number of commenters who held these polarizing opinions?

Undomesticated Equine:

canadamus_prime:
"...most gamers lack the basic cognitive toolset..."
That's putting it mildly.

And if you dared to post some comment like this in forums and not in comics you would receive a nice warning.

Hey, I was just making a behavioural observation.

Desert Punk:
You sir truly must get out more! It applies to almost anyone on the internet or off. A large number of people I deal with I am forced to ask myself how these people didnt starve to death with their lack of common sense.

No I mustn't. I used to work in Internet Tech Support, I already know how stupid people can be. I just being generous.

Jandau:
Not only are you completely correct, I like the sneak punch you took at Gearbox. Seriously, every time I hear they are making something new, I cringe...

"Sneak?" That hit with all the subtlety of a freight train.

AND I LOVED IT!

Yes, I'm immature sometimes. Most of the time. Quite a lot of the time.

redknightalex:
Unfortunately, the whole Mass Effect 3 ending controversy taught me many a lessons along these lines. It was a good game 90% of the time (and most people won't refute that) but it's ending was *cough* controversial at best. Some hated it, bombed MetaCritic, and spammed anyone who even thought the ending was acceptable (ie not bad). At least they had some decent arguments but you don't need to ostracize others.

The ending was shit. Even worse, they marketed it as Fillet Mignon. Now, I'm not going to tell you to go to Hell or die for disagreeing, because that's stupid. I didn't review bomb Metacritic or send threats to Broware, either. I think controversial "at best" is soft serving it. But at the same time, I feel that we, as human beings, can hold different view points.

Also, I didn't like what I played of the rest of the game. But again, I can accept that for others, it was worth it except for the ending. for the same "human beings" thing.

I can have a very harsh opinion, and I will make no apologies about that. I just don't get the point of turning it into a screaming match or death threats or the things we as gamers are expected to do.

But Mass Effect 3 sort of confuses me. The mature part of my brain, the one that tells me mature responses are the best way to handle things and yelling doesn't solve things, noted that even with the dickery Broware threw at critics, eventually there was some form of resolution. Now, that one I'd call controversial at best. But it was a resolution.

Similarly, it was tantrums that got us an end to the constant online connection issues of the Xbone. In gaming, it ALMOST seems like acting like histrionic children is the better response. I suspect, in part, this is because game devs are often hyperdefensive histrionic children themselves, and the only think more horrendous to them than criticism is the threat that their jobs might be threatened.

And I know the bone was also threatened by sales, but I think those were related. Most of the coverage of the online DRM and the like came from the community making a stink. I think even people who wouldn't know otherwise caught it solely because everyone was so mad.

This is why the mature part of my brain ends up locked up so much. >.>

Deathfish15:
What has Valve made that's full of pubes and broken shards of glass?

Team Fortress 2 hats because they look stupid on the characters. And they cost real world munny.

redknightalex:
Unfortunately, the whole Mass Effect 3 ending controversy taught me many a lessons along these lines. It was a good game 90% of the time (and most people won't refute that) but it's ending was *cough* controversial at best. Some hated it, bombed MetaCritic, and spammed anyone who even thought the ending was acceptable (ie not bad). At least they had some decent arguments but you don't need to ostracize others.

The ending was shit. Even worse, they marketed it as Fillet Mignon. Now, I'm not going to tell you to go to Hell or die for disagreeing, because that's stupid. I didn't review bomb Metacritic or send threats to Broware, either. I think controversial "at best" is soft serving it. But at the same time, I feel that we, as human beings, can hold different view points.

Also, I didn't like what I played of the rest of the game. But again, I can accept that for others, it was worth it except for the ending. for the same "human beings" thing.

I can have a very harsh opinion, and I will make no apologies about that. I just don't get the point of turning it into a screaming match or death threats or the things we as gamers are expected to do.

But Mass Effect 3 sort of confuses me. The mature part of my brain, the one that tells me mature responses are the best way to handle things and yelling doesn't solve things, noted that even with the dickery Broware threw at critics, eventually there was some form of resolution. Now, that one I'd call controversial at best. But it was a resolution.

Similarly, it was tantrums that got us an end to the constant online connection issues of the Xbone. In gaming, it ALMOST seems like acting like histrionic children is the better response. I suspect, in part, this is because game devs are often hyperdefensive histrionic children themselves, and the only think more horrendous to them than criticism is the threat that their jobs might be threatened.

And I know the bone was also threatened by sales, but I think those were related. Most of the coverage of the online DRM and the like came from the community making a stink. I think even people who wouldn't know otherwise caught it solely because everyone was so mad.

This is why the mature part of my brain ends up locked up so much. >.>[/quote]

The only way to influence game developers and companies is by making a big stink. If people aren't LOUD, nobody will listen to you in the sea of the internet and twitter. So many were going to put up with the Bones bullshit just because they thought it would not matter as long as they could play Halo 5. Unless of course gamers learn to vote with their wallets. But instead they feel obligated to choose one for some reason. Also devs are assholes who feel that gamers owe them something becaues they work hard to make games. (They are also whiny children who think its so unfair that used games exist and that they don't make enough money).

Grey Carter:

geizr:
--snip--

We'll be covering this in later issues...

I will look forward to your treatment of the matter.

(I noticed the back-hand in that first bit, but I'm choosing to ignore it.)

How many of you would try and find Hitler's other testicle before reanimating his corpse? How many of you would send his reanimated corpse looking for it in your stead?

SirDerpy:

Machine Man 1992:

Grey Carter:

1: Jason Schrierer's (terrible) Kotaku piece was not the first time someone pointed out the game's artwork could be offensive to some.

Also, how is having an exaggerated art style "offensive?" Is this more of that PC bullshit? You should know that political correctness was invented by the Soviets!

Offensive to some, not to all. Not necessarily to him, or you, or I. I can think of a few people who have a stick up their ass who might take offence.

Unless you're trying (poorly) to be sarcastic, your statement would imply a remarkably small understanding of society on your part, if you think that nobody would bat an eyelid at a character model with back-breakingly big breasts.

I was being sincere.

The art style is in no way realistic, so anyone who is offended by it should instead devote their time to working that pole out of their ass.

Grey Carter:

Machine Man 1992:
Two responses popped into my head at the same time, but they basically boiled down to, "Hey, glass houses. I hold professionals in the field to the higher standard than Joe Q Public. Those who take comments on the internet seriously need to take a deep breath, step back, and stop being so bloody serious all the time."

Also, how is having an exaggerated art style "offensive?" Is this more of that PC bullshit? You should know that political correctness was invented by the Soviets!

So were postcodes and the first video recorder. What's your point?

As it was in my inbox: "Touche"

As it is now: You forgot Tetris.

I think I reread that "From Metacritic's heart, I stab at thee" line a dozen times. And laughed each and every time. Sadly that does seem to be what some people use it for. Even if the game is objectively good.

Lvl 64 Klutz:
I posted on Twitter after the Dragon's Crown review blow-up that the "middle ground" seems to be gamer culture's Atlantis. I'm glad I'm not the only one that has noticed this.

I disagree. You completely useless blubbering pile of snot. How someone could have such an uninformed opinion and presume to disagree with me about video games. I know all about vidja garmes. You should listen to me. That's your middle ground.

Should go without saying that last paragraph was sarcastic. I actually sadly agree with you. I only ever hear "This is the best game ever" or "This game sucks and you should feel bad for enjoying it". Can't a game be largely good with some bad? Largely bad, but have a few redeeming qualities?

Oh, wait. I forgot. A bad ending completely negates a 95% awesome ride to the ending. My bad.

Finally, someone gets it.

Pyrian:

Bindal:
L4D2 is everything BUT hard. I solo'd the campaigns there in record-time without any kind of effort.

Solo'ing L4D2 is an incredible claim; I understand it's been done, but it's extremely difficult, as the game was not designed to be played that way and there are many attacks which are easily survivable with help but automatic death without, and there are items that must be carried that render you largely incapable of defending yourself for the duration. Solo'ing L4D2 "without any kind of effort" is an outright not-credible claim.

I did it, and while it took me some effort I suck at shooters, I'd call it quite plausible.

I long, long for more delicious Valve cupcakes.

238U

Game: The Game was good, I will grant you that, But Game: The Game 2: The Playing, was much better... It involved just enough thumb waggling combined with a hint of button mashing, that I found quite profound.

People seems to not know there's a very ample range between the best and the worst. If I say "I like a Porsche 911 more than a Ford Mustang" there's a lot of people who will think I'm saying a Ford Mustang is Trabant level of bad. No. A Ford Mustang is an awesome car; but a Porsche 911 is just a bit more awesome.

Speaking of dragon crown, when do we burn miss Pamela Anderson in a pyre?. Her boobs are so frigging unrealistic, there's no way we could find something like that in a real woman, is demeaning yaddayaddayaddayadda.

Machine Man 1992:

SirDerpy:

Machine Man 1992:

Also, how is having an exaggerated art style "offensive?" Is this more of that PC bullshit? You should know that political correctness was invented by the Soviets!

Offensive to some, not to all. Not necessarily to him, or you, or I. I can think of a few people who have a stick up their ass who might take offence.

Unless you're trying (poorly) to be sarcastic, your statement would imply a remarkably small understanding of society on your part, if you think that nobody would bat an eyelid at a character model with back-breakingly big breasts.

I was being sincere.

The art style is in no way realistic, so anyone who is offended by it should instead devote their time to working that pole out of their ass.

Could this possibly be one of those "You think it's a sweet cupcake sent by Valve" (to a greater or lesser degree) while people who dislike or are offended all "Oh no they resurrected Hitler's corpse" (And did it well/poorly IDK about Dragon's Crown) things? 'Cuz that's what it looks like to me.

Loving the QOTSA reference in the sign-off. I think that's the first one I've recognised.

Hahaha, always like a good use of intentional Godwin's Law.
I do hope there's an actual mention of journalism is applied though.
Well that and also in the case of DC itself, its more about assumption of character in one's opposition and the theme of the game/artist than "This game is awful/the best".

Now back in DmC's whole shenanigans, I totally see this working just with this comic.
Though you'd be more direct to mention the journalism even there.

Heh heh, once I saw a guy recommend Gearbox as the guys to pick up Timesplitters. "Let them do it!" he said.

If they ever get their filthy franchise-killing hands on Timesplitters I will be very frightened for its well-being, to put it lightly. If FRD can make one bad game and die because of it, I feel cheated that Gearbox can make 2 bad games and emerge perfectly fine.

Erin still took a bite out of Valve's pube and glass shard cupcake despite its very obvious topping...

MorganL4:
Game: The Game was good, I will grant you that, But Game: The Game 2: The Playing, was much better... It involved just enough thumb waggling combined with a hint of button mashing, that I found quite profound.

Your opinion is different to mine therefore you are WRONG!

Game: The Game is by far the superior title in the series. They just dumbed down the sequel for the mindless button mashing masses; it lacked all the complexity of the original which is why Game: The Game was so compelling in the first place.

You so-called "fans" know nothing! I was playing Game: The Game before it was cool.

I will respond to all of this with just one word "Stormrise".

Here's another one: You can't have debates about art. Talking about art should not be a contest to see who is right and who is wrong. Check out this example.

Person 1: I really like this video game.
Person 2: I did not like that video game at all.

If these two people had a debate, who would win? Answer: Neither, because they are both correct. Arguing about it would be a pointless waste of time. However, having an informed discussion about the game, where they both explained why they felt the game was successful or not successful, would not be a waste of time. Ideally both would leave the discussion with a more interesting view of the art.

This is the problem with most internet discussion: everyone comes in with the mindset of "I'm going to convince people of the rightness of my opinions."

IndieGinge:

Machine Man 1992:

SirDerpy:

Offensive to some, not to all. Not necessarily to him, or you, or I. I can think of a few people who have a stick up their ass who might take offence.

Unless you're trying (poorly) to be sarcastic, your statement would imply a remarkably small understanding of society on your part, if you think that nobody would bat an eyelid at a character model with back-breakingly big breasts.

I was being sincere.

The art style is in no way realistic, so anyone who is offended by it should instead devote their time to working that pole out of their ass.

Could this possibly be one of those "You think it's a sweet cupcake sent by Valve" (to a greater or lesser degree) while people who dislike or are offended all "Oh no they resurrected Hitler's corpse" (And did it well/poorly IDK about Dragon's Crown) things? 'Cuz that's what it looks like to me.

It could be.

I think some peeps need to read this bit of the comic and take it to heart. The discussions I've taken part in usually dissolve into calling each other's credibility into question or changing the topic of the thread entirely.

Also I have to lol a million times at the cupcake covered in pubes and shades of glass.

Proverbial Jon:
Erin still took a bite out of Valve's pube and glass shard cupcake despite its very obvious topping...

MorganL4:
Game: The Game was good, I will grant you that, But Game: The Game 2: The Playing, was much better... It involved just enough thumb waggling combined with a hint of button mashing, that I found quite profound.

Your opinion is different to mine therefore you are WRONG!

Game: The Game is by far the superior title in the series. They just dumbed down the sequel for the mindless button mashing masses; it lacked all the complexity of the original which is why Game: The Game was so compelling in the first place.

You so-called "fans" know nothing! I was playing Game: The Game before it was cool.

and this, this right here ...

THIS !!!

is why i tend to read the comments section of this fine comic

Grey Carter:

So were postcodes and the first video recorder. What's your point?

probably that Political Correctness has gotten so out of hand it really just needs to die now.

BehattedWanderer:
So, you're suggesting there should be a conversation about how to resurrect Hitler better? To make shining examples of games we don't want?

I think that's what they were referencing. Or for companies that don't like what they're making to make a shining example for their fans. After all, not all of the employees in a game company like what they're doing a game about. Anyway, the point could be that there aren't enough conversations about how video game studios take commissions with really bad designs and flaws and only do it for the money, but don't know and/or don't care how to make it better. Like how to make Square Enix and its Final Fantasy games better. An example of that would be the constant feedback of how the community is being ungrateful by saying "Final Fantasy is over!", "Kill Final Fantasy!", and/or "Thanks for all the fish!" If they were true fans, they should at least try to get Square Enix back on their feet in working condition and go the extra mile to help sustain and get SE back on their feet! Right? Give feedback to SE in an orderly easy-to-read-and-understand fashion. Course, I do understand all the anger, and frustration of all the zombie gamers who want to buy every brand name without understanding or reading what is involved in the game like people who buy food without looking at the nutrition facts or expiration date before they buy it.

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