Of Metaphors and Mario RPGs

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Howling Din:

LordTerminal:

Phrozenflame500:

Keep in mind that what Nintendo/Square actually wanted to do is not actually relevant. A good part of literary analysis is trying to find meaning in areas where the author may not have intended for us to find meaning. Sure Nintendo may not have written the Bowser/Peach story with Yahtzee's allegory in mind, but it's applicable to compare the two.

But that can often be as much of a bad thing as a good thing though.

It's only bad if you factor in the arrogant fools who don't know that when you interpret things, it's about the authors thoughts, not yours. it's amazing the idiotic things you hear asserted in the name of 'deeper interpretation' but you should really just ignore it, and not bring it up in a conversation that hasn't been touched by it.

It's hard to when said arrogant fools keep getting emails and views by people that don't know any better. (coughSeanMalstromcoughcough)

Interesting read, it's more than likely that you put more thought into this symbolism than Nintendo did while making the game, of course they could be trying in secret to send a message out to us, who knows?

LordTerminal:

jsims85013@gmail.com:

Super Mario RPG came out for the SNES and was, as we have established, the first game in which Bowser was not the straight villain and actually joins your party. Because the SNES era was also the first time since the 80s video game crash that Nintendo had strong competition, meaning Sega. A new outsider villain kidnaps the princess and Bowser will not tolerate a rival for her, for our leisure time. Interestingly the main villains in Mario RPG are anthropomorphic weapons, which may be prophetic of Nintendo's rivals moving more towards violent content while Nintendo has persisted with a kid-friendly image.

You mean like Rainbow Dash vs. Starscream?

That's Death Battle, not Mario RPG.

I think what jsims is trying to connect is that Starscream represents the "antropomorphic weapons" of the situation while Rainbow Dash represents the "kid-friendly image". It's not the first reference-based connection I thought of,[1] but it works...

OT: This could explain why I do love the Mario RPG games more that the Mario Platform games... They break out of their norm and even make fun of those norms in the process... They then can be used as metaphors for how gaming was and/or was turning into, which can be debated if these particular metaphors were intentional or not... (although some instances do seem to point to one of those sides...)

With that said, I need to replay Superstar Saga as soon as possible... I suddenly have the urge to do that now...

[1] which, now that I think about it... That should be the first referenced-based connection that should come to mind... But, I digress...

That's... probably just drawing conclusions and connections where they don't exist, Yahtzee.

But it is quite endearing to think that Nintendo might be in the console war for the sheer desire of entertaining people with games. Sony only really hopped into the console market because it had a prototype for Nintendo that Nintendo dropped, and they adapted it into the Playstation, and Microsoft I can only assume saw big profits in the growing industry and wanted to see if they could put their computer expertise into a console. Nintendo's devotion to their franchises as fairly childish, yet interesting fantasy realms is also a nice departure from the grimdark realism that Microsoft and Sony are fond of. While I'm saying that any one game is bad, I do have to say that I'm quite well aware of the controversy of our actions in the Middle East and I don't need a video game to remind me of them.

That being said, I love Nintendo games as much as I love the titles commonly released by Sony and Microsoft, and I find Yahtzee's complaints of Nintendo losing its self-awareness of how persistent and yet consistent their games have been kind of unnerving. Nintendo's always been proud of their formula and often poke fun at it, while other games tend to go through franchises with a straight face, and seeing Nintendo join the latter takes some of the light-heartedness that the games used to have.

Dr.Awkward:
I'd like to point out a factual error here:

Paper Mario on the N64 had Bowser as the villain again, Nintendo being confident in their superiority, but Paper Mario 2: Thousand Year Door has Peach being abducted by sophisticated aliens armed with science fiction technology, and Bowser is almost a figure of mockery, a relic.

The events you're talking about happen in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, and not in Paper Mario 2: The Thousand-Year Door.

No, he's talking about Thousand Year Door. Sir Grodus and the X-nauts were aliens. Very similar stories though.

Deep....sort of

I am a bit upset with his focus on Bowser being the main villain. If I may enter some spoiler territories.

You go 5 hours without Bowser being so much as mentioned. The bad guy is Amatsu, the Bat King. The game could have gone perfectly fine without Bowser at all, but right as you're about to have the big fight with cheesy villain Amatsu, Bowser shows up. But instead of fighting cheesy villain Bowser, Amatsu basically goes "Want ultimate power?" to which he says yes, and you fight a super powered Bowser right out of the gate. Bowser is not the big bad, it is a partnership of two big bads, thus doing something mostly new. It's almost the same thing as what happened towards the end of Mario and Luigi: SuperStar Saga, but not exactly.

This game where Bowser is supposedly the main villain remains the only game in the series where you don't just fight Bowser, he's super powered the whole way through.

...or they just ran out of jokes to make about the Mario franchise at large, and decided to just fall back this time for now.

In two mindsets here...
1: This sounds like something beautiful unearthed, showing artistic, secret honesty on nintendo's part. The seed has now been planting and our thoughts will continue to look for more evidence of any possible metaphors. Intentional or not.

2:The expected results of combining THC with an intelligent, critcical mind (and a back-catalogue of hefty gaming)

Thanatos2k:

romanator0:

Thanatos2k:
So if Mario is supposed to represent us, the player....what is Luigi??

He's the little brother that always wants to play too and not get left out.

So then what does this "Year of Luigi" mean?

You've not noticed that there's really only been one true Luigi game (and one DLC)? And that Luigi is still treated rather badly?

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