Jimquisition: I'm Going To Murder Your Children

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At least some good came out this sideshow though: Jim was able to get paid for making this video.

Not everyone has to be a loser, eh?

Mr. Omega:
I know others have mentioned it, but given the rest of your posts here, it's clear that the message isn't getting through. The only one trying to make this a gender issue is YOU.

Maybe he's satirically demonstrating the point that people will go out of their way to rationalise their actions? Condemning people for "only getting offended because it's a woman" seems to be a fairly common way of justifying the actions of the people who threatened Hepler. It's also completely false, as there was a strong reaction to the Vanderbeek/CoD death threats. Jim even did a special show dealing with the Phil Fish debacle, but screw reality, right? We have a talking point to maintain!

Retrograde:

How does this reflect badly on anyone OTHER than the tossers who decided this was a good idea?

Because these tossers seem to pop up everywhere so that you can't turn a corner in the game industry without somebody threatening to kill you.

As with any community the rotten eggs will leave a bad impression on outsiders, so that when someone thinks of your community, they'll think of the rotten eggs.

Logically, detached from emotion, this doesn't make sense. They are a MINORITY after all.

But people aren't cold calculating machines. They're subject to the subtle tricks of the mind that we study in psychology. Asking for people to abandon emotion is simply not ever going to work, in the same way that telling someone to just "get over" the loss of a loved one isn't going to work.

So then, who, then must police the community? Outsiders, or the people that make up the community?
If there are rotten eggs in the community, who else can be blamed but the people who allow them to exist?

It's damaging to the industry because we are literally losing capable people who make our games because of it.

Church185:

One small correction though, her quitting Bioware wasn't a direct result of the harassment she received, she quit because she is going to be making a text book about narrative design and doing other game related freelance work. Game news outlets have kind of run away with the story out of context.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

Actually, he acknowledged that with a text blurb at 1:48.

Regardless of the reason why she left, it's still utterly ridiculous that she and her family received death threats over this. People that resort to such things are complete scum.

Retrograde:

TWEWYFan:
I'm with you here Jim. I don't care what someone thinks a person did to them, threatening that person's kids is just completely unacceptable and I think it does paint a very dark picture of the current game culture.

How? How does this represent me and other gamers? And yeah I am gonna take it personally. You're gonna slag off a group to which I proudly belong so fuck it, might as well have a pop at someone who can take it. Go on. How does this run off on me or anyone other than the assholes personally responsible?

Did you know that crazy One Direction fans stalk the mothers of the band just in case the boys ever visit their parents and send real death threats to real people for the crime of going out with a member of a boyband that they happen to love?

Does that paint a very dark picture of current gamer culture of music culture, or does it rather just make individual crazy bitches look crazy?

It represents "you and other gamers" because the "gamer culture" gets dominated by a small but ultra vocal minority which taints the rest of us by their bullshit. Whether you are the part of the asshat crowd or not you get lumped in. Like music fans, movie fans, book fans or whichever medium you wish to apply it happens. It's very stupid and its terrible and the people who say stuff like that should be punished in the most severe way properly... they wont, but they should.

You want to not "lumped in" with these people, then ostracize them... loudly and publicly, the more you publicly shame and exclude these idiots, things will change for the better, albeit slowly (because nothing good comes quickly)

I love Bad Dragon.com

I don't use their products... I don't want to give you that impression, but they are impressive and it is a mindblowing experience to even know a site like that can exist. The way they show scale is by putting coke cans next to their dildos... Coke cans!

I can't wait for next week.

I know there was more said in this episode, but I still haven't processed it yet...
They said they would murder her children...Because she likes writing more than playing videogames...
THAT'S A GOOD THING! SHE'S A WRITER! You want her to like writing.

So yeah... Dragon Tongue Dildo... Can't wait.

Reeve:
At least some good came out this sideshow though: Jim was able to get paid for making this video.

Not everyone has to be a loser, eh?

Jim will always be a winner in my book.

Still, I doubt Jim's running out of subject matter, so I'm not sure "needing to tel people the obvious after death threats" is a sufficient plus-side.

Retrograde:
I've since addressed my OP, and while I've admitted that while this was very neatly set up in the same way as a dozen other 'preach to the choir' sessions, I was wrong on this one. Well, wrong on the content.

That first paragraph is still true, and Jim himself actually sort of proves my point with his mention of all the men that have gotten death threats but haven't inadvertantly caused a massive stink or gotten extra special attention or quit their jobs. Where was his backing of those guys? Like I said, better late then never, but the pattern doesn't suggest this would've happened had we been talking about John Hepler.

I saw the edit after I had posted my response, so good on you for giving the video a second chance.

I would like to point out that this wasn't originally a big story, since I believe the bulk of the threats happened years ago. The reason all of this is getting publicity now is because Polygon wrote an article about it (and about the men receiving threats) recently and news outlets are running with the story out of context. Hepler being harassed is old news, which kind of defeats your belief that all of this blew up because a woman was involved.

Calm thyself, and join the rest of us in hating (irony) on the people that get this worked up about a video game!

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

Neverhoodian:

Church185:

One small correction though, her quitting Bioware wasn't a direct result of the harassment she received, she quit because she is going to be making a text book about narrative design and doing other game related freelance work. Game news outlets have kind of run away with the story out of context.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

Actually, he acknowledged that with a text blurb at 1:48.

Regardless of the reason why she left, it's still utterly ridiculous that she and her family received death threats over this. People that resort to such things are complete scum.

Whoops, I don't generally watch Jim's videos, I listen to them while I do other things so I totally missed that. I did agree that she shouldn't receive death threats for any reason, but the threats that everyone is talking about happened years ago and aren't the reason she left.

Try and go for the next seven days without being a sick fuck, and I'll play around with a mythical beast sex dildo for you

This is just one of several reasons why I like Jim so much - he knows how to appeal to his audience.

Speaking as one of the few people who actually loved Dragon Age II, learning about this appalling behavior (while not surprising) reduces the validity of any arguments made against the game now. It's like how the threats and abuse against Sarkeesian reduced the validity of anyone who wanted to argue against Tropes vs. Women in Video Games (which I haven't watched), even if they were approaching it objectively and were making well-constructed arguments.

Deadagent:
I didn't know this still had to be passed around.

No, you're right, it doesn't need to be passed around, but because it's trite bullshit from a pseudo-intellectual asswipe.

Legion:

That is why it is never a good idea to assume. Sexism wasn't mentioned at all.

I've been told this and acknowledged it. Although I've also acknowledged that the words of the video and the timing of the video tell slightly different stories. I bet if you googled something relevant to this you'd see a whole bunch of articles, including this video, calling for a stop to, saying it's causing dammage, saying we're a load of shits and we need to weed out the 'toxic' among us.

But my question, and my point really, misled as I was by Jim starting this video like so many others and not going the usual route(which is his fault, not mine. It's not my problem if he's creating stuff that sends a very consistent message and has a first impression that grates with people.), is that if this has been a problem for ages, why is it NOW that people are going meltdown?

Apparently, it's nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that this is a notable female to take this shit in an otherwise male collective. It's not in any way a reflection of past issues where people like Sterling won't say a fucking word while it's 'just men' getting their lives threatened over petty shit and then goes all heroic and "Fuck You" when 'the line is crossed' and a, well, victim happens.

I'm just full of shit and it's a massive coincidence apparently.

No, we really didn't have to do an episode about that. What the fuck is there to say on this topic? Jim, I am always looking forward your show to hear something insightful about the game industry. These pointless fillers about internet rage are well, completely pointless.

Maybe next time.

Retrograde:

That first paragraph is still true, and Jim himself actually sort of proves my point with his mention of all the men that have gotten death threats but haven't inadvertantly caused a massive stink or gotten extra special attention or quit their jobs. Where was his backing of those guys?

He made a bonus episode in defense of Phil Fish a couple of weeks (or so) ago. I won't link it though, I'm sure you can find it yourself if you take five seconds to check.

Anyway, in response to the video, I agree with most of the other posters who are saying that Jim is preaching to the choir. Except for the Phil Fish thing maybe. There's a lot of harsh things said on this site, but none of it personal. Perhaps a video about the perils of faux intellectualism would be more suitable?

EDIT:

Mikeyfell:
I love Bad Dragon.com

I don't use their products... I don't want to give you that impression, but they are impressive and it is a mindblowing experience to even know a site like that can exist. The way they show scale is by putting coke cans next to their dildos... Coke cans!

I can't wait for next week.

I know there was more said in this episode, but I still haven't processed it yet...
They said they would murder her children...Because she likes writing more than playing videogames...
THAT'S A GOOD THING! SHE'S A WRITER! You want her to like writing.

So yeah... Dragon Tongue Dildo... Can't wait.

Ha, I read the first paragraph of your post and genuinely believed you were a spambot. I have nothing to add to your comment or anything, I just found it kinda funny.

Wait, we're wailing on Dragon Age 2 here again? ... did I wake up like... what, a couple years ago somehow? And the writer? ... We're going to attack the one thing Bioware does better than any other company? ...

And... and blaming the actual development team and not the artless suits or soulless marketing robots who demanded they produce a worthy sequel to a game that all but spawned religions in a development time shorter than what some amateur game mods get? ...

And her children, her defenseless, unaffiliated children no less...

What in the food processor fucking hell is this?

How emotionally immature and unrestrained do you have to be to make these kinds of statements? It's one thing to take after a writer's work - get me started on Richard Knaak and I'll give you litany of insults and criticisms to eclipse War and Peace - but to outright say that their children should die because of it is beyond intolerable.

If the community of gamers is to ever get better we have to hold these assholes responsible. Shit like this cannot go unanswered and people should be held accountable. If the response the gaming community has to this is "well she should just suck it up and grow a pair" then every derogatory stereotype and foul, overblown negative fiction the world at large has of us becomes that much more justified.

I don't care whether or not you think her writing was worthy or not - when you take after a woman's children you make the rest of us look like sociopaths. It's apathy towards this shit that enables this shit, and I thank God that Jim's not willing to let it go.

Deadagent:
I didn't know this still had to be passed around.

I was thinking of posting that actually. If anybody should be on this website, it's Instig8iveJournalism

Ah, the Bad Dragon website, high up on my bookmarks list... Lots of really fun products that perfectly resonate with my bad girl fantasies X3.

I shall continue being a beacon of human kindness and perfection in the hopes of seing which one he has. I'm curious!

Retrograde:
A woman is threatened on the internet in a grossly disproportionate manner. I was wondering when we'd have a brouhaha about how some stupid people doing stupid people shit and one/some woman/women taking it all too seriously means that gaming is sexist and we're sexist.

BRB, gotta flaggelate.

And in case you're wondering, no I didn't watch past the first minute or so, there really isn't a need to at this point.

Lady Victim, evil sexists, misogyny, gaming needs to change, THE ISSUE, etc.

Edit: Well blow me down, I've since been convinced to watch the video and while the basis of the whole thing has only happened because someone thought it was acceptable to lay into a woman, the content itself managed to subvert expectations. Good work Jim I guess.

Too bad you didn't feel the pressing need to stand up and be the hero we apparently needed when all the men you mentioned were getting threatened with death, but better late than never I guess.

I can't believe that the main thing you took from this video is that the victim was a woman.

Have you not heard any of his stuff about how horribly Phil Fish was treated (including in this video). How can you square the idea that the feminist critics of games are reactionary when you act like this?

Turning a message of "threats like this are unquestionably unjustifiable" into an issue about gender and "poor me the feminists are being mean" purely because the victim is a woman is just ridiculous.

"Hepler was a terrible writer for games that people waited for anxiously and put a lot of hope into."
"Phil Fish is an asshole who explicitly said he likes to provoke people and asked for everything he got."
"Some reviews are inherently more or less acceptable based on how objectively analytical and intellectually honest their writers were, and some of those writers should not have their jobs."

These are all positions that someone could hold (and they'd hold them correctly). It's understandable to get emotional over them as they pertain to things that people care about, plus they sometimes have very legitimate reasons for believing these things that can't be dismissed as simple idiocy/immaturity/biggotry etc. I wish Jim and others who oppose these movements would try more to understand these reasons instead of immediately jumping to fighting fire with fire at all cost. Speaking pragmatically, I don't think Jim has accomplished much with this episode at all, only made more people pissed off even more intensely. Despite what he said, this episode didn't NEED to be done.

There. With that said, I completely AGREE that death threats, insults and childish rage are despicable, distasteful and don't belong in a discussion between adults. THAT'S the part of the video I agree with. I just wish Jim didn't use it as a strawman to attack legitimate opinions, didn't twist the truth and tried to understand the opposition just a LITTLE bit better.

When Jim winked at the end, I kind of came a little. This is probably not the best episode of the show to say this, but he's never looked directly at me and winked before.

Sgt. Sykes:
No, we really didn't have to do an episode about that. What the fuck is there to say on this topic? Jim, I am always looking forward your show to hear something insightful about the game industry. These pointless fillers about internet rage are well, completely pointless.

Maybe next time.

You miss the point: It's easy pickings. Why do a detailed analysis of the game industry when you can make a video saying "FUCK YOU TROLLS. STOP TROLLING!" and get paid exactly the same?

image

Fair points all around, but I wish you wouldn't have cast such a wide net Jim. It's not gamers... its some gamers. A tiny vocal minority on the /v/ boards and elsewhere. The audience is not going to make these creative individuals' lives harder... some of the audience will, but certainly not all and not even close to the majority. This no excuse for their behavior, its reprehensible. But to imply that nothing will fill the void in the wake of someone like Hepler leaving is hyperbole. Tons of people go to school to learn this stuff and are chomping at the bits to get into the industry. Gaming as medium is at the best its ever been right now for a plethora of reasons.

Sometimes the community sucks, and steps need to be taken to stop the nonsense. But when asked about a hobby I partake in I'm still going to call myself a gamer. I'm not going to let a tiny angry minority make me ashamed of the rest of the good gaming can and does do.

Wasn't it revealed that she quit for family reasons and to do some freelance work and write a book on narrative design?

I know there was some initial sensationalism going on here and that Jennifer Hepler did get a lot of shit.. a LOT of shit for her hand in Dragon Age 2 and her hand in BioWare's writing process, but wasn't that years ago? The whole issue has been done and dead for a while now. I see no reason why anyone would suddenly dredge up this particular hate campaign.

....i've never threatened any game maker.

I did threaten to eat the blue moderating staffs cat on blizzard (but that's another story because of instead of talking about updates they started talking about their GOD DAMN CAT around the time of 1.3 diablo and it was the height of frustartion).

Now you can say i'm trying to justify it. I'm not apologizing for it. I got kicked off the forum. I really didn't belong there.
I never reacted well in the b net forum and all things considered it's for the best.

So am i guilty of what jim's talking about? Just on a different avenue? I mean if I am so be it. I don't go around threatening to kill or rape developers. or there kids. I'm not saying i'm a saint.

Jim....I may have to go on a cat eating rampage LOL if i never have to see your furry dildo collection.
I love you to death... but don't go calling me a sick fuck and talk about bad dragon.com in the same sentence.

Deadagent:
I didn't know this still had to be passed around.

Which Jim addresses in the video, explaining that while she may not have quit for that specific reason, that does not make this behavior in any way okay. Not in her case, not in anyone's case.

themilo504:
This episode is really kind of pointless, everybody with a brain already knows that this kind of behavior is bad and the rest are too stupid to ever understand that.

It's not entirely useless; the gaming culture has had to live with its purported immaturity for a long time, but the thing is I'm not an awkward teen any longer. Being an adult, I have to behave as such, even in the confines of a pastime of mine. Those of us who can reason need to speak out, for fear that the media will consistently portray us as immature. Those idiots who threaten CoD devs over weapon rebalances have deeper issues to work through than I will ever have - and they have the gall of being in my age range or to hold down jobs that require social interactions - something which I wouldn't recommend to any confirmed rager or rage-quitter.

The medium itself has matured, but the players haven't. Life doesn't revolve around sweet 360 noscope shots or trick grenade tosses. No employer will ever care if someone mentions they've Prestiged in Black Ops II for a straight month. The MLG circuit can't be counted on as a serious breadwinner if you're going to be unsportsmanlike about your wins or losses.

I could go on like this for quite a while. It's not so much the ragers who need to be reformed as the general public that needs to understand that gaming is like coffee: you can enjoy your daily two or three cups, or you can go freaking Honoré de Balzac over your java and land yourself an A-grade cardiac arrest that cuts your career woefully short. Let's all learn to ignore the dipshits, gamers and non-gamers alike.

And yet Gamers throw a hissy fit when the media brands us as psychotic mass-murderers waiting to happen.

Gee, I wonder why. Can't possibly be all the death threats we tend to throw at developers we hate, now can it?

Will those dickwads who want to act like the IRA over some bad videogame even watch this episode?

This is the first Jimquisition video I had to stop watching halfway through.

Reasons why this video shouldn't exist:
1) She didn't quit Bioware because of the threats, and we have her on record as saying this.
2) The threats in question happened years ago, back when she first commented on her dislike of video games back in 2006. They are only being reported now for the sake of sensationalism, since Fish recently resigned from the industry because of such threats.
3) You're giving these people power over the developers that they rightly shouldn't have.

Reasons why I don't really mind her departure from video gaming:
1) She was rather vicious to her critics, though not to the same degree as Fish.
2) She was quoted as saying that she doesn't like to play video games and wishes that they had a fast-forward button.

No, death threats are NEVER okay, but for the love of all that's good, can we stop making a big deal out of this? Are we really going to keep pretending that this is the only industry which suffers from the problem of over-eager fanboys who get pissed off over minor things? Star Wars fans threatened several authors with death after they killed off a few of the main characters in the Extended Universe. Movies and TV shows have also received such threats. This isn't unique to video games, it's a fundamental aspect of all fan bases EVERYWHERE. There are idiots in every fan base in every genre. Stop pretending this is a phenomenon unique to video games.

I'm so tired of seeing this in the news, drummed up as a sensationalist piece of tripe about how gamers in general are evil entitled morons because a few people are stupid. We're giving these individuals way more power than they deserve to have, simply because we keep making such a huge fuss out of it. You previously pointed out that Anita Sarkeesian was "the monster that gamers created" but now you're guilty of the exact same crime yourself, Jim. By elevating this small handful of morons to the big stage, you've giving them attention they don't deserve, which will only encourage them to keep doing it. This is psychology at its finest: when a child doesn't get enough attention, even negative attention will be perceived as positive.

Stop making headlines out of this crap. You're making it worse, not better.

Is it just me, or has Jim's episodes been less and less entertaining and more brow beating over time? Nothing better than being called a "sick fuck" when this was the first I've heard of the Dragon Age lady thing.

Yeah, I know he's not calling me a sick fuck personally, but white knights always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Especially so when you chastise a crowd in order to speak to a few. Shoulda stuck to the dildo, Jim.

The fact that anyone ever feels the need to make a video like this to go "Hey, guess what, threatening to kill people or their children is something you really shouldn't do." makes me very sad.

It really does.

I know this is not specifically a gamer thing, and I know this is obviously a minority of gamers, but I just hate to see this community rely so heavily on death threats, and I hate even more to see that they are becoming a perfectly acceptable comeback to something that has displeased you.

I don't care how many people on the internet go "Oh, it's not a big deal, just brush it off." I will never accept that anything along the lines of "I'm going to kill you." "Go kill yourself." or "I hope you die." are perfectly rational and acceptable responses to someone. Even if it's just over the internet, and ESPECIALLY over something like video games.

I'm starting to wonder if the "Internet I.D." and regulation that gets tossed around every now and then is such a bad idea. Yes, we'd lose something beautiful that comes from the freedom of the internet, but it might be worth it if people were finally held accountable for the shit they start and if they had to treat every online conversation or email as if it were a face-to-face conversation.

People are abusing their power, it seems to only be getting worse, and I'm wondering if it's even worth it any more.

Isn't it enough already?
I mean, if those People who would harass via internet are really just a vocal minority why is this still being reported all the time by gaming media? Gaming media reports some disagreeable people who write odd bullshit on the internet.

There is quite a lot of stuff on the internet that is giving these trolls far more attention then they deserve.

Trolling may or may not be a kind of a coping mechanism. It's generally accepted that trolls who would threaten violence, rape or death have a miserable existence.

Which is still no excuse for threats but on the other hand it is apparently a method to vent anger in the general direction where it comes from on someone who doesn't and/or shouldn't care about it. It's better that this and that miserable creature would call me disagreeable names rather then venting anger on People who may come in physical contact.

Would be even better if this person just shot a bunch of people and kept the mouth shut. If he/she doesn't, let a ban follow and/or a police investigation in some cases.
I had this odd experience where one dude was having a one sided rant about another guy and he swore and got progressively worse. By the time an admin showed up he was like "ima kill you! ima kill you!". Rape of female relatives was also mentioned, the usual.
I would very much like to have the police show up at his house to check if he forgot to put on his straight jacket this morning...

Anger management should be done in the videogame, not over the headset.

Or over twitter, where several developers decided it would be time for their own sexist, homophobic, racist or plain mean remarks.
Often times directly towards people who actually kept their cool.

Which makes me think that i'm being lumped in with those trolls.
Trolls are the only thing the gaming media has something about to say when it comes to community so apparently that's pretty much all there is and all there is to say about the videogaming community.

Came for the lecture, staying for the dildo. I wonder if he got it in a fancy colour...

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