Jimquisition: I'm Going To Murder Your Children

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Agreed. Disagree with something, fine. But the death threats? So not cool. Anyone here have read books, watched movies or listened to songs that sucked. But we dont call death threats on them. Seems thats a game only thing. An yes people saying it are arseholes, but if you had kids you would take those threats seriously. Regardless if its some anon guy, you still would take it seriously. End of the day, yes a game sucked, ME3 ending sucked, i got over that after an hour. An this is after re buying ME1 and ME2 before ME3 was released to replay those games. ME3 ending sucked. But, people are acting like its a cancer thats eating their brain and only a good ending can fix it. Get over it. If a bad game ending is that bad that it effects you months later, then you have major issues.

Now these arseholes are using language to state their level of anger. They wont rape or kill or anything, though if you are on the receiving end im sure you will worry. Especially if you have kids. On this site this language is not acceptable. On others it is. Thing is the stories in that game would good, just the repeating levels etc sucked. Gamers need to stop expecting everything to be awesome. CoD is awesome because it knows what the fans want. It cant fail. Others try something different, fail, but people call death to everyone involved. You know what, with out new ideas, we would still be playing Pong.

ChrowX:

IamLEAM1983:
*complaints about immature children playing video games*

I'm not trying to misrepresent your argument, something about having a stack of quotes within quotes and giant posts just sort of irks me, so please don't take this the wrong way.

There's nothing for me to take the wrong way. It's standard post snipping. No worries.

ChrowX:
But the terrible, immature, rude, obnoxious gamers who make the rest of us look bad has always been an issue, and we all know it. This much is true, but there's one problem with Jim coming to a site like this and speaking directly at the camera to chastise us with generalities about our behavior as a community: We're not those people.

For the most part, the sort of gamers who do that, the ones who insult and send death threats, and whip their controllers across the room when they lose, and send death threats to developers for patching their favorite sniper rifle, and infect the whole community with an air of hostility and vulgarity don't come to sites like this. They don't.

Quite true, but the problem is their vocal nature. Non-gamers only perk their ears when some truly horrid howling is heard from our hills, so to speak, so they get the impression that your average gamer is somewhere up there with your average bath salts-snorting face-muncher. Either we segregate them, or we teach the greater masses to disregard the howler monkeys we've got in our midst.

ChrowX:
And just because it's worth mentioning, since Jim won't talk about this sort of thing, but take a look at this. http://gamerfury.tumblr.com/ That's some of the collection of some of the tweets that one of the Call of Duty developers received, which Jim mentioned.

Saw it a few weeks ago. Made me ashamed to be a gamer, honestly. Or, to be more precise, it made me proud that I was old enough to be able to distance myself from co-op or competitive gaming and go back to my personal roots whenever the primates become too hard to bear. I'm a point-and-click and role-playing type of gamer, for the most part, with a very casual investment in a couple shooters. I'm one of million other guys and gals like myself, and we all probably feel grossly misrepresented by the general idea the rest of the world has of the gamer culture.

gigastar:
I dont condone the threats made against her, but i will not say that im sorry that she left the gaming industry.

Not because shes a mediocre writer, but because she has gone on record saying that games would be better if they removed interactivity.

Which begs the question, why get into an industry focused on interactive entertainment, if you want to minimise the interactivity? Why not write books, movie scripts or TV shows?

And here is a major problem I have with the whole issue.

First of all she didn't say that, she said that she was tired of how games were always about violence and killing as opposed to something else. Second of all, even if she did say that, why does it matter? She wasn't ripping all of the gameplay out of Dragon Age 2, her opinion was just that, her opinion. It wasn't hurting anyone, why do we care about it? Thirdly, the woman got death threats and people keep bringing this up, why? We have an example of how frighteningly toxic our culture can get, and people keep trying to bring up this harmless thing that she said so long ago. You are missing the point! A massive amount of hate was directed towards this woman, threats and harassment, and people still keep bringing up what she said as if it was some unspeakable sin that we shouldn't let go. It was just an opinion, I myself think that it was a dumb opinion, but that's all it was, a dumb opinion. I don't see why we need to keep bringing it up at every turn and I really don't see what harm it did.

Raiyan 1.0:

jluzar20:

Yeah, I know he's not calling me a sick fuck personally, but white knights always leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

Oh look, another guy who didn't watch the video.

He can't really be a white knight when he also mentioned the men getting death threats as well (one of whom, Phil Fish, had gotten an entire episode from Jim himself), eh?

You lost me...
I mentioned how the last few videos, the Phish one included, seemed to have a theme of him beating us with his moral superiority. Sounds white knightish to me, and less than deserving of an entertainment video column.

jluzar20:

Raiyan 1.0:

jluzar20:

Yeah, I know he's not calling me a sick fuck personally, but white knights always leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

Oh look, another guy who didn't watch the video.

He can't really be a white knight when he also mentioned the men getting death threats as well (one of whom, Phil Fish, had gotten an entire episode from Jim himself), eh?

You lost me...
I mentioned how the last few videos, the Phish one included, seemed to have a theme of him beating us with his moral superiority. Sounds white knightish to me, and less than deserving of an entertainment video column.

The definition of a white knight

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=white%20knight

It doesn't really match up with what Jim is doing at all.

How many people honestly sent death threats to Hepler about her children? I bettering it was no more then a few(3-4) and likely as little as 1.

The problem is that this stuff is meant to stir up fake controversy. Its an excuse for the victim to point the finger at all of us and tell us what a bad group of people we are. I think its deplorable that someone would send death threats about a Woman's children. That doesn't mean I am OK with the victims of such crimes using it as an excuse to shout, "Look, look, I'm being oppressed" and try to villainize against all of their critics, including the one that only make fair and logical criticism and don't send death threats, by putting them in the same category.

If I were in the same position as her, and got those death threats, none of you would know about it. I would simply delete the email. If I felt it was a real enough treat I would tell the police. I wouldn't feel the need to post them on a blog or message board somewhere as a means of casting guilt on the gaming community and bashing my critics.

LetalisK:

Deadagent:
I didn't know this still had to be passed around.

No, you're right, it doesn't need to be passed around, but because it's trite bullshit from a pseudo-intellectual asswipe.

Sounds like someone's upset because this video uses logic and reason to show that the abuse against Hepler was blown out of proportion by Bioware to hide how awful their games; along with show how stupid these white knights are. It also shows why Hepler is one of the reasons why Bioware has been in decline for some time.

Raiyan 1.0:

jluzar20:

Yeah, I know he's not calling me a sick fuck personally, but white knights always leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

Oh look, another guy who didn't watch the video.

He can't really be a white knight when he also mentioned the men getting death threats as well (one of whom, Phil Fish, had gotten an entire episode from Jim himself), eh?

If someone has formed an opinion of you based on your previous writings and video content across multiple websites over a span of years, is that your fault or theres? His rep is well earned.

Jims timing and reasoning are odd, but you're right, for once, he's not the very perfectly encapsulated image a white knight.

erttheking:

The definition of a white knight

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=white%20knight

It doesn't really match up with what Jim is doing at all.

It took him years of personal trials as well as attacks on numerous friends and colleagues(since they pretty much all get it) to finally speak up on the topic for himself, and when he did so it was honestly pretty meek and quite introspective for Jim.

It took him hearing a story out of context, once, about the same thing happening to some damsel he's never met and her kids and it's fire and brimstone for the dirty fuckers that we are.

I'm just connecting dots here.

erttheking:

jluzar20:

Raiyan 1.0:

Oh look, another guy who didn't watch the video.

He can't really be a white knight when he also mentioned the men getting death threats as well (one of whom, Phil Fish, had gotten an entire episode from Jim himself), eh?

You lost me...
I mentioned how the last few videos, the Phish one included, seemed to have a theme of him beating us with his moral superiority. Sounds white knightish to me, and less than deserving of an entertainment video column.

The definition of a white knight

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=white%20knight

It doesn't really match up with what Jim is doing at all.

I see your point, but I've always considered white knighting on the internet as the defense of anyone from a flimsy argument. I appreciate the context, though.

I can't help but think that this video is rather pointless - the people that Jim is making this video to argue against are unlikely to watch this. I think most of us know that it's BAD to say such things, it's just a few idiots who have to ruin it for the rest of us.

uanime5:
I suspect Jim fails to provide a reason why the topic was changed because he doesn't have a real reason. He could have easily ignored these threats and talked about his DLC topic as planned, so his attempts to blame this on other people is somewhat immature.

Jim also ignores that Hepler was responsible for writing the story for Dragon Age 2 so she was responsible for many of the things that were wrong with it; specifically the bad story and inconsistent characters. The fact that Jim seems to believe that Hepler was being abused for being creative, rather being than utterly inept and writing terrible stories, just shows that he hasn't bothered to research why people didn't like her. Jim's attempts to deify Hepler to hide his white knighting isn't fooling anyone.

I doubt Hepler's departure will discourage those with talent from writing for games, mainly because those with talent tend to be praised rather than scorned. It's only the utterly inept and entitled writers who expect everyone to love their stories, no matter how badly written these stories are, who get condemned by the majority of gamers. Here's hoping that gamers continue to criticise inept writers that produce bad stories, which ruin popular franchises.

Finally it's funny how Jim is always harping on about how developers should be able to make the games they want but keeps condemning people for giving honest opinions about just how bad these games are.

Now imagine instead of critiquing the merits of your argument, my friends and I gang up on you and start blathering threats about killing your loved ones.

IamLEAM1983:

TheSniperFan:
Please don't generalize, I know society does, but you don't need to.

Yeah, sorry about that. I never explicitly mean to generalize an issue, but I guess I suck at formulating my opinions.

Let's just hope the concerned people grow up. Although, judging by your embedded video, some of 'em probably won't ever change. It's disheartening - and it's one of the reasons why I never play co-op shooters like Left 4 Dead or Payday with pubbers.

Co-operation implies that a certain amount of trust exists between the involved parties, and it's easier to trust someone whom you've known from the tail end of elementary all the way through to your first professional tribulations. :)

No problem. :)

It's funny that you mention Left 4 Dead though, since I experienced the ingame-equivalent of those mails in it yesterday.

If Jim were a forum poster, we'd all be telling him to stop feeding the trolls.

Between this, the Anita Sarkesian thing and the Dragon's Crown review "controversy"; the whole message can be summed up by "Hey jerks, stop being ridiculous over-the-top jerks" and yet without Jim ranting for however many minutes about it, I'd never have heard about any of them.

If nothing else, the people who act out like that probably love the fact that it kicks up a storm. And those of us who watch the Jimquisition just get a bit fed up of being called "sick fuck(s)".

Raiyan 1.0:

Now imagine instead of critiquing the merits of your argument, my friends and I gang up on you and start blathering threats about killing your loved ones.

HAHA! How is that different than any other day on the internet? If you haven't gotten a death threat or someone telling you to kill yourself, you're not doing it right.

Retrograde:

Raiyan 1.0:

jluzar20:

Yeah, I know he's not calling me a sick fuck personally, but white knights always leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

Oh look, another guy who didn't watch the video.

He can't really be a white knight when he also mentioned the men getting death threats as well (one of whom, Phil Fish, had gotten an entire episode from Jim himself), eh?

If someone has formed an opinion of you based on your previous writings and video content across multiple websites over a span of years, is that your fault or theres? His rep is well earned.

He didn't know what 'white-knighting' actually meant. You started posting on this thread without even watching the video.

I don't know who should be responsible for your ignorance, but it sure as hell ain't Jim's.

Retrograde:

Zombie_Moogle:

Yes. Yes it does reflect on gamers, because we should be better

We should be better because we are. We're not rabid acolytes of the flavor-of-the-month pop musician. We're not fundamentalists of ancient, backwards politics. We're the culture of the most advanced & promising art form in the known universe

Act like it

Honest Injun here, this is as direct and tone free as it can be I assure you. Are you being funny here? This post is humourous, right?

Quite the opposite.

As others in this discussion forum have made very clear to you already, subcultures are viewed as a collective. It's not just some random asshole on the internet that can't buy or even sell certain games in countries like Australia, it's everyone. Like it or not, we're judged as a group & need to take a certain level of responsibility for the actions of the group. I didn't send those threatening emails, & odds are neither did you, but responding with inaction & indifference makes us complicit. Saying nothing is the same thing as condoning it.

As a culture that often identifies by both its intellect & history of social stratification & inequity, we should be above that. I'm not saying it will never happen, there will always be trolls. I'm saying we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard than rabid One Direction fangirls

jluzar20:

Raiyan 1.0:

Now imagine instead of critiquing the merits of your argument, my friends and I gang up on you and start blathering threats about killing your loved ones.

HAHA! How is that different than any other day on the internet? If you haven't gotten a death threat or someone telling you to kill yourself, you're not doing it right.

So by your standards then, Jennifer Hepler did exceptionally well. ;)

JPArbiter:
I can put up with a lot of shit in my life... but I am a dad. threaten my sons and I will end your miserable little life. the slime that threatened this woman's family did was beyond reprehensible, it was actually criminal.

I hope Bioware saved the IP addresses of the posters, I hope she prosecutes, and I hope the brats who did this spend a few weeks in jail to shock them back into the reality that they are not that important.

Given the abusive and threatening post you've made you shouldn't be surprise if these "brats" also prosecute you for the same reason.

Death threats: never a good thing, no matter how angry you are. Really? Did this really need to be spelled out for people?

The only thing I don't like about this episode is that it sounds like it's directed at me, accusing me (the viewer) of threatening Hepler directly when I also think it's idiotic, harmful and likely illegal.

You know, I think anyone whose immediate response to this isn't "Yeah, fuck those guys!" is part of the problem. Death-threat spewing, insane fanatical assholes that infest our community need to be cast out and ostracized. They need to be exiled and we need to show that THEY DO NOT DEFINE US.

Anyone who thinks "Oh they should just grow thicker skin" or "Oh stop making general statements" or "Oh focus on the good" or "Oh blah blah men blah misandry" are indirectly supporting the behavior by not showing it the absolute contempt it deserves.

TheSniperFan:

I'm more familiar with being called a fag because of my Mic Lisp (as in, my microphone sucks) and being pelted with homophobic slurs until the end of the match. At which point the idiot rage-quits because I didn't give him the pleasure of raging back or writing down something passive-aggressive in chat.

My usual tactic is pretty simple: clam up and keep playing. Lack of response always drives potential rager types up the wall and usually leads to them being votekicked.

Who knew silence could be the best weapon?

RobotDinosaur:
At the risk of exposing myself to an amount of stupid far above permissible exposure limits - is there a link to the original story? I'm wondering what exactly this writer said to provoke this, or if her only crime was having been a video game writer. And let me be perfectly clear, I'm just wanting to know more about this incident, there is absolutely nothing she might have said to justify this kind of treatment. Honestly, the regularity of these kinds of stories has gotten to the point that I'm kind of ashamed to video game as a hobby.

Unfortunately I can't link you right now.

However the things that sparked up gamers hatred towards her was in an interview with her- the interviewer in question asked her a bunch of questions.
Two of them sparked the controversy.

First question was what did she dislike most in videogames in which she said playing them. Hepler acknowledged right off the bat how horrible that sounded and further explained that the reason for this opinion was because she has poor hand eye co-ordination, struggles immensely with game maps, dislikes combat type of gameplay, and inventory checking.

The second question was if there was one thing she would like to be put in games, to appeal to more people what would it be. Hepler responded by stating that the same way devs offer gameplay enthusiasts a fastforward button to skip all the cutscenes so they can get right back in the action, they should offer a similar option for those who aren't great with videogames, but immensely enjoys the story of said game a fast forward button to skip the unnecessary and/or difficult bosses.

This last question is the one that pissed off people the most. Many people claimed that she was attempting to strip out gameplay in videogames (a feat that is not possible as a writer anyway.) and completely ignore the fact that games such as Super Mario Galaxy 2 already offer such a feature. If you lose a certain amount of times on a specific stage- You have the option to allow Princess Luna to play the stage for you and obtain a bronze star.(doesn't count as an actual star so there is still much incentive to actually beat the stage yourself.)

uanime5:

Finally it's funny how Jim is always harping on about how developers should be able to make the games they want but keeps condemning people for giving honest opinions about just how bad these games are.

See, there's a tiny difference between criticizing people's writing and giving your honest opinion in a way to try and get some improvements going, and threatening to kill their children. And I know - or at least hope - that you can tell the difference. Bad writer or no, as soon as you're getting to the point where you start sending pictures of someone's children along with a threat on their lives, you've pushed into the realm of dick move. Not to say that any points against her writing are invalid - but then, the points on her writing, by the same token, don't invalidate the fact that threatening her children's lives over it is not the thing you should be doing.

Deadagent:
I didn't know this still had to be passed around.

That's because it doesn't. The controversy surrounding her may have been faked or not, but I should think that, either way, death threats on her children are something that shouldn't be done.
Unless you're trying to suggest that the whole death threat thing was faked all together, in which case:

image

Yeah...should have went with the DLC episode as this is completely pointless since she got a book deal.

I also find it funny that Jim will jump down our throat for the Hepler thing but won't say shit to Marcus Beer or any of his peers who fuck up this industry just like the dipshits that threaten children.

Speaking of children, some loser threatens to murder a school full of children receives the support of damn near everyone in gaming because he was "joking" but when multiple people do it to Hepler, it's clearly serious threats and they all should be imprisoned.

I want my damned DLC episode....dammit.

So count me the odd ball, but with all the many complaints that this show has addressed (many very very valid) am I seriously the only one who feels we are in a golden age of gaming? Games are dirt cheap and there are a shit ton of them for everything. I get many AAA releases are recycled garbage, but games are shoved out so frequently it is not only impossible to keep up with EVERY release. It's a good and a bad thing because for every 30 turds shat out monthly you will get 5 gems, but compared to even as recently as the PS2 day that's the most "good" games released in forever. Not to sound like an old grampa but there was a time when there were one, MAYBE TWO, good games released a season. Now I find it impossible to keep up with every release I want to take a look at. If you are a person who thinks that only shit is being released, get out of your comfort zone, get off your ass and take some chances. It's relatively easy to find things suited to your takes if you stop being a lazy shit and read (I emphasize read, a numeric scale can only measure an individuals personal enjoyment) the Good, Bad, and Mediocre reviews on metacritic and make informed decisions. If that is too much fucking work for you try the shouibuythisgame sub reddit where people will break it down for you.

Mr_Terrific:
Yeah...should have went with the DLC episode as this is completely pointless since she got a book deal.

I also find it funny that Jim will jump down our throat for the Hepler thing but won't say shit to Marcus Beer or any of his peers who fuck up this industry just like the dipshits that threaten children.

Speaking of children, some loser threatens to murder a school full of children receives the support of damn near everyone in gaming because he was "joking" but when multiple people do it to Hepler, it's clearly serious threats and they all should be imprisoned.

I want my damned DLC episode....dammit.

Dude did a whole episode on the Phil Fish fiasco. Go look for it.

Raiyan 1.0:

He didn't know what 'white-knighting' actually meant. You started posting on this thread without even watching the video.

I don't know who should be responsible for your ignorance, but it sure as hell ain't Jim's.

That's my point, I'm not ignorant of Jim at all. He's been doing this thing for years and years, his views on matters regarding anything to do with women easily readable. Including BTW that his response to the woman episode being rage filled and his response on the bloke one restrained and lacking in personal insults.

He bucks that this one time and everybody here seems to think he's not who he's always been and is suddenly totally even handed, and isn't in any way one of the loudest voices on the whole, gaming as social justice bollocks that people that get paid for putting out click bait have been on.

Agree with everything, Jim, except for one thing(in a way).

The Phil Fish harassment. It wasn't just his remark about japanese games or his actions in IGTM. It was his actions since Fez was released where he has a "Holier than thou" attitude. He called a boycotters on the steam forums nerds, he uses controversy to sell his game whenever he can. He calls people ingrateful if they buy Fez while it was on sale. He insults PC gaming then runs to it when Fez dosen't sell as well as he wanted to. Heck, Fez on XBLA isn't patched, my save got deleted so I deleted the game.

TLDR: Beer was the lesser of the two evils in that situation.

Necris Omega:
Wait, we're wailing on Dragon Age 2 here again? ... did I wake up like... what, a couple years ago somehow? And the writer? ... We're going to attack the one thing Bioware does better than any other company? ...

It's not 2003 :P Bioware certainly aren't the best writers in the games industry any more.

But yeah, trolls are bad, this isn't a games-industry exclusive issue though so I don't see the need for an episode.

gigastar:
I dont condone the threats made against her, but i will not say that im sorry that she left the gaming industry.

Not because shes a mediocre writer, but because she has gone on record saying that games would be better if they removed interactivity.

Which begs the question, why get into an industry focused on interactive entertainment, if you want to minimise the interactivity? Why not write books, movie scripts or TV shows?

I think she enjoyed that games let the player to choose the direction of the story and feel it was part their actions that things played out the way they did. She didn't wish to remove interactivity all together just to remove the dungeons and other parts that need not be there for the narrative, I other words she should of been writing visual novels.

Dear god...

I mean I didn't like DA2 and was pretty disappointed in ME3's ending, but...

Threatening the children of the writer? I don't care if it was over the internet, I don't care if it was a "joke." That's a line you never cross, death threats are bad in any context but to threaten the children of someone you dislike is the most vile, disgusting, cowardly act you could do, and to do it over something so PETTY is nausea inducing.

I spend a lot of time hoping gaming can be seen as a respected medium, but times like this make me think that this will not happen anytime soon.

chiefohara:
Who gives a fuck whether people like her or not or why.

The Episode was about entitled shits threatening her children, no one is entitled to do that. Funny how you ignore that elephant in the room

Funny how you ignore that the majority of the video wasn't about this. Most of this video was Jim whining that gamers should let inept writer produce retarded dialogue and poor characters to increase diversity.

Seriously Jim could have made a 1 minute video saying that threatening children isn't acceptable; instead he chose to convolute his message and talk about a bunch of other issues. If Jim isn't going to concentrate on the thing his video is meant to be about why should I?

Sum of the video:
Gamers can be shits.
What the video missed:
Gamers are a sub-group of people. People can be in general, shitty. Some of these people have an active past-time of sending death threats to people they disagree with. That is bad and we need some way if any to fix that, though shitty people are hard to deal with, so tough luck.

Jimothy Sterling:
I'm Going To Murder Your Children

If your first response to a game creator doing something you dislike is to get personal with them and threaten their families, you waive any righteousness you might have had. Seems like a no-brainer ... yet so few of us seem to have brains.

Watch Video

Thanks for mentioning Beyond Good and Evil 2. I want that game ;_;

OT: Well...this is the ugly side of offering anonymity to the masses. That doesnt keep me from being glad we have it...I just wish some people would manage it better :\

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