Jimquisition: I'm Going To Murder Your Children

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Colin Murray:

uanime5:
Also if people don't willing resign after ruining a game without poor writing and continue to ruin other games then the only way left to "save" these games is to force this person to quit. Perhaps if people took more responsibility for producing poor quality products this wouldn't happen.

And that's what entitlement sounds like. "I the customer demand that you lose your job because I chose to buy something and don't feel like blaming myself for not researching my purchases better".

How exactly do you research a product that hasn't been released and all the professional reviewers have claimed is the best game of all time?

Also you've ignored that I said only writers who make games with bad stories should resign and instead decided to replace it with a strawman.

uanime5:

Colin Murray:

uanime5:
Also if people don't willing resign after ruining a game without poor writing and continue to ruin other games then the only way left to "save" these games is to force this person to quit. Perhaps if people took more responsibility for producing poor quality products this wouldn't happen.

And that's what entitlement sounds like. "I the customer demand that you lose your job because I chose to buy something and don't feel like blaming myself for not researching my purchases better".

How exactly do you research a product that hasn't been released and all the professional reviewers have claimed is the best game of all time?

Also you've ignored that I said only writers who make games with bad stories should resign and instead decided to replace it with a strawman.

Actually that's more or less exactly what you said. That people who make products you don't like should stop working. The quality of a story is subjective, ergo you are projecting your own values onto the quality of a story, and people are under no obligation to resign if they mess up a story, every person messed up at least once in their career. You yeah, you basically did say that people should lose their jobs if they make a product you don't like.

Also, to address the other point you made in the other post that replied to me, Jim was more pointing out how people flip out every last time a developer steps out of line simply because they stepped out of line, not because they had actual grievances with how the new idea was executed.

jmarquiso:

bringer of illumination:

The entire fucking premise of the video is false, when was the last time a game writer was harassed into leaving their job before this one? Can anyone tell me? And if not, then why are we pretending that it is somehow a giant pressing issue? Why is Jim screaming about how the gaming culture suppresses "creativity" when it has never fucking happened before? And no Jim, the other examples given in these videos are not about "creativity".

Phil Fish.

Notch, as of today.

Other industries have PR agents, managers, and the rest in front of their twitter accounts.

Phil Fish didn't get shit on because he was "creative"

Nor did he get shit on because people didn't like his work as is the case here

Phil Fish got shit on because he had a habit of antagonizing everyone and because he couldn't keep his fucking gob shut.

If Phil Fish had just released his game and done regular promotion then no one would have cared

But Phil wanted to be "recognized" he wanted people to look at him and say "wow there goes Phil Fish! I wish I could be a brilliant visionary like him!"

And all this because he had the amazing and totally original idea to make a fucking indie 2D platformer with retro graphics.

Again, not defending the people who abused him.

But I am saying that my sympathy for his plight can rest in very, VERY small space.

It is not similar to this case.

And if other industries are better off because they have PR managers, then why don't game companies get those too?

Games are a bigger industry than Hollywood, it's not like they can't afford them.

jmarquiso:

Phil Fish.

Notch, as of today.

Other industries have PR agents, managers, and the rest in front of their twitter accounts.

Notch? Did i miss something?

"I stopped developing 0x10c because everyone started caring about it before it was even done," he said.

"It was much easier to have grand plans when nobody knew who I was," he wrote.
"The gaming world doesn't need more under delivering visionaries."

At worst you could say he cracked under the pressure. But I don't see how this in any way would count as harassment.

I gotta say I'm not exactly sure how using your whole video to take these death threat wankers to task is actually helping. Frankly I feel all it does is give the rectum-faced little shit stains the attention they crave. While I'm just as annoyed that these kind of fools have anything to do with one of my cherished hobbies, I'm also stunningly annoyed that its always these socially retarded juveniles that get the most attention from the gaming press.

I agree they are pretty pathetic assholes and the issue needs to be addressed, but does that mean we should completely ignore the much larger percentage of gamers who don't act like a bunch of lobotomized five-year-olds with impulse control issues and tourettes? I say fucking no we shouldn't!

By focusing only on these negative detractors of the gaming community without also focusing on what the community does right, I feel you actually help reinforce the misapprehension that all gamers are guilty of this type of antisocial behavior. And with no positive reinforcement you also pretty much guarantee a self fulfilling prophecy because there will be some non-troublemakers who will get tired of being shat on and decide "Ok fine, if I'm going to be treated like an asshole for no reason, I might as well just act like an asshole." Or possibly worse, make the normal, sane members of the gaming society not want to be associated with it anymore.

Anyway, anyone can spew hate and vitriol without offering a solution to a problem. Its much easier to lambast with the vocal fist of anger than it is to be the voice of sanity and reason. I'm asking you Jim to not be one of those guys. To quote the guy in my avatar, instead of just focusing your rage on the small group of assholes and ignoring the much larger portion of the rest of the crowd who haven't done anything wrong, "Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"

I agree that this whole threatening to kill people bit is bad, but seriously? Where was Jim when any male developer was threatened? Why is it women - and only women - get defended so much? I've watched all his episodes, and yes on the occasion he does a little aside about how men are people too, buts its mostly him saying "How dare you!" to some dude on the internet. I just wish he'd do an entire episode about a male developer being threatened every now and then.

But there I go, running my sexist mouth off again...

Kinda fucked up that their are literally people in the world who think dislike of a thing they wanted to like is reason enough to threaten someone. How does someone even think like that. You can't blame one single person for an entire game. DA2 wasn't bad because of its writing anyway, hell the writing was fantastic, it was bad for several other reasons; none of which were caused by a single stand alone person. Even if they were it's a freaking video game. If it's bad it's bad, you accept that and move on. Geezus.

I'm going to make another post because on another topic, somebody is really pissing me off with his lame excusees for his inaction.

If you are angry about gamers being generalized from the vocal minority, don't just sit back and say "I'm not one of them." This does nothing to stop the vocal minority. The only ones who can stop the vocal minority are the silent majority.

If you are pissed that Jim decided to cast a wide net, then how about you stop voicing your displeasure to him and start getting on the cases of those who make us look like homicidal maniacs? We all (well, most of us) have the one guy on our friends list that likes to spew hate filled tripe online. Wade into the troll filled pools that poison the Steam community. Get your hands dirty. Don't just say "Its not me, man." Fucking DO SOMETHING TO HELP.

erttheking:

uanime5:

Colin Murray:

And that's what entitlement sounds like. "I the customer demand that you lose your job because I chose to buy something and don't feel like blaming myself for not researching my purchases better".

How exactly do you research a product that hasn't been released and all the professional reviewers have claimed is the best game of all time?

Also you've ignored that I said only writers who make games with bad stories should resign and instead decided to replace it with a strawman.

Actually that's more or less exactly what you said. That people who make products you don't like should stop working. The quality of a story is subjective, ergo you are projecting your own values onto the quality of a story, and people are under no obligation to resign if they mess up a story, every person messed up at least on in your career. You yeah, you basically did say that people should lose their jobs if they make a product you don't like.

Games such as Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 were criticised by the majority of players for having a poorly written story (especially the ending of Mass Effect 3). So pretending that only I disliked bad games is completely inaccurate.

If the writing in a game garners too much hatred from their players the writers should resign or be fired before they are forced out by angry fans. The fact that this hatred is subjective is irrelevant.

Also, to address the other point you made in the other post that replied to me, Jim was more pointing out how people flip out every last time a developer steps out of line simply because they stepped out of line, not because they had actual grievances with how the new idea was executed.

That only happens when developers try to change something in an established franchise. No one cares what happens in new games (unless it negatively effects women, then all the white knight start screaming insanely).

Magog1:
....i've never threatened any game maker.

Do you want a cookie for human decency?
Hope not. but teke it, cookies are yummy.

image
(http://fiftytwoacts.wordpress.com)
If you are none of that group that send her threats-good, than this is not about you.Go easy, relax, whatever. If you are none of that people who becone aggressive and throw derogatory words onto other people, threaten them or say they should be killed:then thank you for meeting the ground standard of human decency. This rant is not directed at you, so why do you make it about your hurt feelings because of accusations? I mean, its pretty clear that jim was addressing the kind of people who did an would do this stuff.. Do you get angry if you see posters which say to you "dont drink and drive, you will kill somebody" because you never would do that and you feel unfair?

again:if you are no total fuckwad, nice, this is not for you. Or maybe it is.

Because even if you are not one that starts using slurs at people or threatens them because they have another opinion..what do you do, if something like that happens in your vicinity? Do you ignore it? Do you joke with those people if you play online and someone in that group uses these kinds of threat&trastalk against other people? Are you silent, embarrased? (what i mean ist:do you enable such behaviour by complicit silence?)

such behaviour comes not out of nowhere. I mean, usually this kind of behaviour wont happen so often in real life. Since the internet and anonymity, such situations have increased. Are you somebody who helped that? do you defend people who act like that because "its only words, dont be such a wuss" or "thats the internet for you. get over it"*(who said that you have to embrace shittiness? just because something stinks doenst mean that you cant clean it) Are you someone, who listens to people who talk about their experiences with harassment and threats and respect that or are you someone who tries to police them and say that just because you got one or two threats on you-tube and got called a fa*, other people should get over with or leave the internet?(d.h are you an active part of silencing because this toxic culture got so normal, that the idea to change for the better is so absurd? Is it so normal, that a vocal minority can drive some people out of public spaces?

Imagine, you go out for a cup of icecream. Your pals and you get some and sit at a plaza, but there are 2 or 3 people who stand around someone and use fould language, calling that person mean names and following this person everywhere. into the shops, in the bus, even sometimes they stand before that persons home, calling that person names, using derogatory language, using threats and NOT BACKING UP. Most of the time you see that one person, you will see the 2,3 other persons as well, harassing, taunting etc.

and now your pals:that's reality. if they cant deal with public spaces (part of the internet is) they should go and stay at home..

nobody would do that, that's ridiculous. But when this happens at the internet and people quitting one big part of their life because of that vocal minority that knows about their family, that pops up everywhere they are(blocking doenst works because you can get 30 accounts in a few minutes and a proxy isn't that hard to get..) there are people who use their time just to annoy one person, harass that person, threaten that person. and often people seem to be okay with that. because you often read these comments "*shrugg*thats the internet. go out if you cant cope...
But (well, almost)nobody would say:never go to the post or drive bus if you cant cope with the harassment, its just part of our culture..

because that would be defending it. that would be saying-it cant be helped and doing on the own things (until maybe you get targeted by such an person)

point is.-just because this culture is shit doenst meant that is has to stay that way. every time someone cant control their hate, its a little part that piles up to the big dung of hate. and then it becomes normal. or it is. We need tools and ways to solve that problem, at least in pages where its not about freedom over everything, but about good serious discussions.(like here)

i mean if someone hosts a homepage or forum and states clear that there is freedom to say whatever you want as long as it dont collides with the law that this is okay. As long as people know that this will never be a safe space, thats fine. And as long as there are safe spaces where people can communicate without having fear of this kind of stuff. This goes at the cost of free speach, yes. but as long as people know what the rules are (and arent obliged to join the site) thats okay.

but i think sites with a big open community need moderation. Twitter, facebook, maybe youtube. To help against those people.(i mena, there are rules, they just dont get enforced because the money and fun of some are more important than the participationa nd the feeling of safety of others. But this can be only as long as people are okay with this sort of thing without doing it themself. If enough people say-we dont want that, we want to be able to publish a note without having 200&x peopel tell me that i am fat ugly or slutty, gay, a pussy or whatever, then things might change.

But as long as people can act like you " I don't harass people therefore I am not a part of the problem and now i am going to ignore that and mind my own business" as this long will this minority be heard and the people who suffer by them will flee or even worse.(and its sad that people have to leave a big part of their life because of the behaviour of some people.)
No, we need enough people who 1. don't act like that (or only act like that ins paces where it is okay to act like that-unless it invades the privacy of people. doxxing&stuff is shit no matter where) and 2. don't ignore such an abuse or enable it through downplaying/policing/silencing the victim but to stand up and say:fuck that, thats wrong. that isn't funny. if you don't stop annoying my team you get muted and flagged.(and in an good world guys from PSnetwork,xbox&co would react.
(sadly they don't because THERE ARE TOO MANY COMPLAINTS. this girl form notinthekitchenanymore.com had to make a big fuss until some guy wh threatened her rape got banned after days. some users who sent her pms with disgusting, sexist, harassing BS are playing and posting happily ever after. there is no consequences for this kind of behaviour..i mean why, most people seem not to care or its is SO everywhere that ist normality and there for okay..)

that there are safe spaces in the internet where people of all kind can be open about their life and experience without the fear of stalking, doxxing and continuous cyber-bullying.

Silentpony:
I agree that this whole threatening to kill people bit is bad, but seriously? Where was Jim when any male developer was threatened? Why is it women - and only women - get defended so much? I've watched all his episodes, and yes on the occasion he does a little aside about how men are people too, buts its mostly him saying "How dare you!" to some dude on the internet. I just wish he'd do an entire episode about a male developer being threatened every now and then.

But there I go, running my sexist mouth off again...

He actually went out of his way and made an extra episode purely to discus the crap that was getting flung at Phil Fish.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7831-Go-Fish

Brian Tams:
I'm going to make another post because on another topic, somebody is really pissing me off with his lame excusees for his inaction.

If you are angry about gamers being generalized from the vocal minority, don't just sit back and say "I'm not one of them." This does nothing to stop the vocal minority. The only ones who can stop the vocal minority are the silent majority.

If you are pissed that Jim decided to cast a wide net, then how about you stop voicing your displeasure to him and start getting on the cases of those who make us look like homicidal maniacs? We all (well, most of us) have the one guy on our friends list that likes to spew hate filled tripe online. Wade into the troll filled pools that poison the Steam community. Get your hands dirty. Don't just say "Its not me, man." Fucking DO SOMETHING TO HELP.

It's not my responsibility.

What these people do has very little effect on anything and no effect on me, and I am in no way complicit in their transgressions.

What DOES affect me is the extreme over-exposure of these asshole which does nothing to stop them and only serves to stroke their egos and lend power to their words.

What does affect me is when some decides to broaden his fire and say "THIS IS YOUR FAULT "GAMING"!" as is "gaming" is somehow a giant hive-minded organism that can or should agree on any one thing.

uanime5:
How exactly do you research a product that hasn't been released and all the professional reviewers have claimed is the best game of all time?

Also you've ignored that I said only writers who make games with bad stories should resign and instead decided to replace it with a strawman.

Well, you could wait and see, for one.

The idea that someone should lose their job because you don't like their writing is just silly. No straw man here.

What I find disturbing is that an anonymous person in Canada can read a ranting Facebook entry from a kid in America and somehow get this kid thrown into jail, but high profile developers and people with big companies at their back can't manage to get any of these idiots jailed for their threats..

uanime5:

erttheking:

uanime5:

How exactly do you research a product that hasn't been released and all the professional reviewers have claimed is the best game of all time?

Also you've ignored that I said only writers who make games with bad stories should resign and instead decided to replace it with a strawman.

Actually that's more or less exactly what you said. That people who make products you don't like should stop working. The quality of a story is subjective, ergo you are projecting your own values onto the quality of a story, and people are under no obligation to resign if they mess up a story, every person messed up at least on in your career. You yeah, you basically did say that people should lose their jobs if they make a product you don't like.

Games such as Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 were criticised by the majority of players for having a poorly written story (especially the ending of Mass Effect 3). So pretending that only I disliked bad games is completely inaccurate.

If the writing in a game garners too much hatred from their players the writers should resign or be fired before they are forced out by angry fans. The fact that this hatred is subjective is irrelevant.

Also, to address the other point you made in the other post that replied to me, Jim was more pointing out how people flip out every last time a developer steps out of line simply because they stepped out of line, not because they had actual grievances with how the new idea was executed.

That only happens when developers try to change something in an established franchise. No one cares what happens in new games (unless it negatively effects women, then all the white knight start screaming insanely).

Yes, just about everyone hated Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2. No one else demanded that people resign from their jobs though. And even then there were plenty of people who liked them. How come people who don't like things should have the power to choose who should keep their jobs and who shouldn't?

I disagree, I disagree 110%, that's like saying that Johnny Depp should stop acting because he was involved in the Lone Ranger movie, that's like saying George R.R. Martin should stop writing because the recent Song of Ice and Fire books weren't as good as the earlier ones, that's like saying that Gearbox shouldn't have bothered releasing Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon's Keep because Aliens Colonial Marines had come out before it and that they should just shut down, that's like saying that any person who ever makes a single mistake should be forbidden from ever writing anything again and should end their career right now. People shouldn't be punished for not being perfect. When people make mistakes, they shouldn't throw down their pen and paper, they should look at their mistake and LEARN from it and use it to write better stories in the future.

Also I don't see how religiously sticking to the status quo is a good thing. I seem to remember people throwing fits about possible gay romance options in ME3 with the only basis for the anger being "It wasn't in the games before". Not to mention she didn't actually implement any of the changes she was talking about, and didn't even specify the Dragon Age games, but the mere thought of thinking about it was more than enough to send people into a blood frenzy.

People harassing her are idiots.

That said, the Something Awful let's play thread was easily the most entertaining thing I've read in a long time and probably the most powerful piece of criticism anyone could levy at a particular writing team. Why won't people learn? If you feel the need to take the piss out of someone, just make fun of their work, don't threaten the person who made it or write a bunch of vitriolic shit about them (of course the thread itself is guilty of partaking in the fairly directed Helpler hating, so it's not a perfect example).

I knew it, I called it the the moment I heard the story. Jim Sterling would make a video, finger waggling at all of us for harassing her.

She left Bioware to write a book, EA informed her of the threats after the fact. Though that doesn't mean they shouldn't punish the stupid trolls who threaten people directly. I also called this would be a bigger deal because people would say it's because she's a woman. "Punish a woman" Were the exact words here.

In case people are new to gaming in the last 30 years, trolls and extremely disturbed people are part of the sub-culture. A very small, vocal minority that tend to get a lot of attention, but a minority nevertheless, and I'm getting sick of blanket judgements on the whole sub-culture by being lectured like ALL gamers are like this. No, gamers are not at fault here, a few assholes are.

Here's how these articles and videos are sounding just because of a minority: "Some white people in hoods burned a cross on a new black neighbor's lawn. What's wrong with all the white people in this country being such racist children? White people really need to behave themselves if they allow this to happen."

I don't see an angry video being made every time a screechy 12 year old screaming "faggot" or "nigger" over a multiplayer game. Are people uncaring about the feelings of homosexuals and people of color... or do we realize that's not a threat because we know that sort of person doesn't make up a significant portion of the gaming culture?

You kind of lost me at the defense of Phil Fish. Yeah, nothing justifies threatening to kill him or his family. But people (also I would like to point out that I was not one of the people doing it) weren't doing that because he was racist or because he looked like an asshole him a movie. Phil Fish told Marcus Beer to kill himself because he didn't like Beer's video talking about him. And much like you say in this video, Beer being a douche in said video doesn't justify Fish doing that. Telling someone to kill themselves is right up there with direct threats on the scale of scumminess. Much like your (and mine, actually) reaction to people threatening to kill a developer's children is "Fuck you.", my reaction to Phil Fish telling Beer to kill himself is also "Fuck you."

Basically, Phil Fish is just as big a piece of shit as everyone you're insulting in this video. Don't try to pretend he isn't. The people who threatened to kill Fish and his family are also shit, I do not deny that or try to justify their actions at all. I just want to point out that Phil Fish is just as big a piece of shit as they are.

Oh, and one more thing. If people could stop with the rape threats every time it's a woman who did something you don't like, that'd be swell. Threatening rape doesn't make you clever, it just makes you an asshole.

In short, the three things everyone needs to stop doing whenever they disagree with someone or dislike something someone did:
Death threats
Suggesting suicide
Rape threats

No matter which one you think is the worst and which one you think is the least horrible, I think we can all agree that anyone who does any of them is a fairly shitty human being.

To be honest, the video's kinda missing the point. Hepler wasn't harrassed because she was creative with her writing. Holy shit no. That never happened. Hepler was harrassed because she was a video game writer who didn't like video games, and people understandably flew off the handle (not that the death threats were understandable) at someone who got into the industry without deserving to. There are a lot of good writers out there who also like video games and Hepler leaving is not going to cause anything of value to be lost.

It's also a bit disconcerting that Hepler is now such a huge attention figure that the things she says can cause a massive shitstorm between gamers and the journalists who support them. I'm imagining the comical yet grim situation of her saying "I was almost raped by someone who said he didn't like Dragon Age 2" and gaming pundits everywhere getting enraged with series of condescending and patronizing articles towards the "gaming community" in an effort to find all of the bad weeds and tell them a thing or two!

Long story short, the fragile egos of game developers everywhere aren't my problem, my business nor my interest and I'd be happier if the things I watch weren't full of moral posturing addressed to a vocal minority that will be anything but convinced.

yo jim have you lost weight looking good bruda

Makabriel:
What I find disturbing is that an anonymous person in Canada can read a ranting Facebook entry from a kid in America and somehow get this kid thrown into jail, but high profile developers and people with big companies at their back can't manage to get any of these idiots jailed for their threats..

Well, the kid was using a facebook account under his real name, as well as providing a picture and home address, making identification extremely easy.

These idiots are generally under accounts with names like JKBrah347 or some equally idiotic stuff. So, identification can be a bit of a problem. I also no jack shit about how things like IP tracking works, so I don't know if that could work.

There was a lot wrong with Dragon Age 2 but I don't even think the writing was one of them. At least not one of the major ones. EA's one year deadline was almost exclusively to blame for Dragon Age IIs quality. That's why they didn't have time to model more than one robust in-game town. That's why they had to reuse the spider cave as the bandit's lair as the mage's hideout. She was probably given very strict parameters to write in to begin with. Not that this is justified at all regardless, but they're not even threatening the person that ruined the game.

Good episode Jim. Speaking as a man who has had his life and family threatened, I can't agree with you more. It's never ok, and it should always be pointed out repeatedly until anyone who indulges in this behaviour is vilified. too often in this society does this not happen.

Nobody deserves to have their family threatened.

As for guys who are so desperately trying to turn this into a misandry/double standards/sexism thread;

That is so not the point guys. People threatened to kill her CHILDREN.

Think about that for a minute. I mean really think.

HER CHILDREN.

This whole topic is so not about your (imagined) issues.

Sheesh.

uanime5:
Also if people don't willing resign after ruining a game without poor writing and continue to ruin other games then the only way left to "save" these games is to force this person to quit. Perhaps if people took more responsibility for producing poor quality products this wouldn't happen.

And how, exactly, did Jennifer Hepler ruin any game she worked on? Do you actually know what parts of Dragon Age she worked on, because it's really fucking easy to look it up.

For Origins she wrote:
Most of the Orzammar NPC dialogues
The Dwarf Commoner Origin
And the Anvil of the Void quest

For DA2 she wrote:
Anders, Bethany, Leandra, Elthina, Cullen, Sebastian Vael
And most of the Legacy DLC

Having only played Origins, I can only speak for that and say that her writing (just the writing, because fuck the Deep Roads) was pretty good. And, though I haven't played 2, I doubt that those characters were terrible enough to warrant all the "she sucks at writing" comments.

uanime5:
How exactly do you research a product that hasn't been released and all the professional reviewers have claimed is the best game of all time?

Wait for it to be released and then wait another few days? It's not like you have to buy the game the first day it comes out.

Also you've ignored that I said only writers who make games with bad stories should resign and instead decided to replace it with a strawman.

"Bad stories" are subjective and, like I said above, Hepler is only the cause of all of Bioware's supposedly shitty writing in the minds of idiots who don't take the five seconds to look up what she actually wrote. She's not responsible for anything other than that so, unless you've got a problem with Orzammar or Sebastian, you need to be taking your complaints to Gaider or someone who actually wrote something you dislike.

uanime5:

Colin Murray:

uanime5:
Also if people don't willing resign after ruining a game without poor writing and continue to ruin other games then the only way left to "save" these games is to force this person to quit. Perhaps if people took more responsibility for producing poor quality products this wouldn't happen.

And that's what entitlement sounds like. "I the customer demand that you lose your job because I chose to buy something and don't feel like blaming myself for not researching my purchases better".

How exactly do you research a product that hasn't been released and all the professional reviewers have claimed is the best game of all time?

Also you've ignored that I said only writers who make games with bad stories should resign and instead decided to replace it with a strawman.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe wait until it's been released and read lots of user reviews?

As for the whole "writers who write bad stories should resign" thing: can you give me an example of a bad story? Odds are there are people out there who enjoyed it. The whole topic is subjective. If your idea ever got instated all it would do is alienate not only customers (because there were no longer any games with stories that interested them), but also the creators: "Yeah, I got a job as a videogame writer! Now all I have to do is make sure the majority likes every story I ever write and never screw up even once or else I lose my job! Isn't my career great?" /sarcasm. New writers would stay away from the business because they want a stable job, those in the business would not risk anything too creative for fear it would be poorly received (resulting in them getting fired), and the customer would end up getting nothing but games with stories like the one before it and the one before that and the one before that because that's what the majority likes, dammit!

OT: I agree with this video. As for those of you saying this is "just an internet thing" and "it happens" I'd like to tell you this: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (the quote's a little extreme in context, I'll admit, but it does apply) Start replying to the people who make these threats en masse and tell them that shit's not tolerable. Make examples of them; lift them up so others can see them, point to them, and say "this is NOT ok and if you do this you are the lowest scum imaginable." Not only does this relegate these people to the minority in the public's eye (and shows the majority as decent folk), but it also deters others from following suit. Sure attention whores will still do it, you can't get rid of all the filth in a community, but it will make the ones who write that filth out of anger think twice.

Just my two cents on what should be done. Can't wait to see that dildo.

did... something else happen....?
Did I miss something....
Cause..........
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...
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I stopped lurking in the Bioware social site... after that bullshit happened with Jennifer...
iirc, all she said was that she plays RPGs more for the story than the combat, and finds the drudgery of having to fight through the mobs of enemies to get to the plot something she doesn't care for and wouldn't mind if an RPG had a "skip the combat" button....
Which I don't agree with, because I feel that's half of the RPG experience... but damned if DA2 didn't make me wish for a "skip the combat" button.
This is years old.... have people still not gotten over the fact that this WRITER favors WRITING over combat?
Dear GOD. The inane childishness in people.
Who cares if she doesn't like combat in RPGs?? That's not only just an opinion.... it's a VALID one. Because RPGs and HALF STORY.
Honestly....
Oh... she quit...............
:|

as before, if any of these threats where actually taken seriously why weren't the police involved ? (as opposed to, or at the very least alongside, "the press").

other than that stop reading your "fan mail"...something "stars" in other industries managed to figure out fucking eons ago.

if you expect your "letter box" to be full of nothing but fawning platitudes you're simply not living in the real world.

uanime5:

Also if people don't willing resign after ruining a game without poor writing and continue to ruin other games then the only way left to "save" these games is to force this person to quit. Perhaps if people took more responsibility for producing poor quality products this wouldn't happen.

1. Jenifer wasn't the lead writer behind those projects. She was high up, to be sure, but if you're disappointed in the story you should be demanding David Gaider's retirement, not hers (I'm assuming you're talking about Dragon Age 2 because she was a writer for only that and the original Dragon Age).

2. Even if you didn't like her sections of the story, that doesn't mean other people didn't. Sure, a lot of people didn't like Dragon Age 2. I know quite a few who did. Should we alienate those with different tastes.

3. Even if everything wrong with Bioware's writing was her fault, why are we even saying that her children being threatened is the logical conclusion? Death threats that specifically named her children and mentioned what school they were in is the appropriate response to bad writing? Really!?!

This is a much broader problem than just gaming, though. I've seen a lot of TV shows with dedicated fanbases who then turn on the show's creators when they start to do things differently which has prevented the writers and producers from being willing to expand and explore the potential of their IPs when that kind of expansion and exploration was desperately needed.
I definitely think there's a lot of shitty writers in the media industry these days, but as a culture, we've all become too fixated on our own wants in such a way that it's actually making things worse. Nobody seems to understand that things don't have to be exactly the way you want them to be to be good. Quite often, things *can't* be exactly the way you want them to be if they are going to be good. You fans are not creators. You don't know the what goes into the process of creating a good game, good tv show, good movie, or good book. You haven't spent hours trying to pick out exactly the right words, framing the shot exactly correct, fine-tuning the mechanic to exactly what is needed to get across what the audience needs to understand to follow the creative work. By all means, express your opinions, feel free to tell people how you think it should have been, but don't go threatening people if they don't do exactly what you need. You are not a writer. You are not a creator. You are an audience. Your role in the creative process is to appreciate the work - or not - and enrich its existence with discussion.
And if you really can't tolerate what is being done, then why don't you get off your lazy ass and make your own stuff? Me? I write fiction. I've dedicated my life to studying the art of the written word and I know how hard it is to do it well. You spoiled brats don't know how difficult it is to produce quality entertainment in any medium and you've got no right to start demanding everything be done the way you want it to, and you sure as hell don't have the right to threaten people and their families just because you don't agree with them.

Brian Tams:

Makabriel:
What I find disturbing is that an anonymous person in Canada can read a ranting Facebook entry from a kid in America and somehow get this kid thrown into jail, but high profile developers and people with big companies at their back can't manage to get any of these idiots jailed for their threats..

Well, the kid was using a facebook account under his real name, as well as providing a picture and home address, making identification extremely easy.

These idiots are generally under accounts with names like JKBrah347 or some equally idiotic stuff. So, identification can be a bit of a problem. I also no jack shit about how things like IP tracking works, so I don't know if that could work.

That's why I added the "Big companies at their backs" part. These companies have money.. and lawyers .. and clout. It would send a BIG message to these idiots if they suddenly find themselves on the wrong end of Big Bubba.

You that old saying "This is why we can't have nice things!" It applies here // It really applies here! For the love of the Unholy Gods, what is wrong with some people?!?

There are two redeeming points out of this video, 1. Americans take dead threats Very seriously, so I hope those people get what's coming to them and B. I do like Jim's little promise at the end, if we are all nice for the next 7days (which should not be that hard people) we get to his is dragon dildo

-M

Fans are rabid and insane in every medium and you only have to descend into the retard realms of Tumblr to know that. Remember when George Lucas got death threats concerning the new trilogy? Remember when Hideaki Anno got death threats about how he ended Eva? The only difference between video games and any other entertainment industry is how the creators are so quick to shift blame to the consumer. People don't like your product? Clearly they're arrogant entitled children, they're the ones at fault. You aren't to blame at all despite having worse business practices than any other entertainment medium. The fans can't grow up but the developers can, either ignore it and take it professionally like all the other creators out there or throw a hissy fit, insult your fanbase and quit like Phil Fish and Hepler.

The funny thing is that if you are a video game writer there is no else place to go, it's as low as you can go career wise. If you write full time for video games then you probably failed at every other attempt at professional writing.

All i gotta ask after seeing this video is how can the action of a minority in any way be representative of "gamers" ?! This video was probably the worst way to talk about this issue.

I must have missed when Assassins Creed became the new series that it's cool to hate. Cuz, like... they're good games. Even Revelations, which was fucking garbage, was still better then most anything else that came out alongside it that year, and 3 was the best one since the original in my estimation. So where, in between all the games being good, and AC 4 looking fucking amazing, did it become the cool new thing to say the series is played out and a new one being released every year is a bad thing even though it means a reliably good game will come out every year? Cuz I honestly didn't get the memo everyone else seems to have gotten.

Outside of that, missing the part where the entire community is to blame for the actions of a vocal minority. It's like saying ALL of teh feminists are evil cuz one on tumblr said she wanted all men castrated that one time. Or that all fans of MLP are sick pervs because porn of it exists. And this especially coming from Jim, who once did a video promoting us to take the immature route to get what we want. Not that I'm saying the sickos who threatened innocent children for no reason are in the right, they suck, I'm just asking why we all suddenly have to take responsibility for them. Especially when the ones of us who have tried not to suck pretty much don't even call ourselves gamers anymore, cuz Extra Creditz made too much god damn sense when they did an episode on it.

As a side note: anyone who takes death threats over the internet seriously is a pussy. Real (or at least successful) murderers don't tell you when they're going to kill you.

Legion:

But it doesn't, because it has nothing to do with game culture, not provably anyway.

A female politician in the UK who had the audacity to suggest it'd be a good idea to have more women on our currency was threatened with rape. Mary Beard, a lady who is a classicist and TV presenter was sent bomb threats for speaking up about the previous issue as well as others.

Neither of those, nor other many similar stories have anything to do with gaming whatsoever. It is the perceived anonymity that comes with posting online that causes most of these kinds of things. People cannot see their victim, often post under an alias and frequently do not think of the consequences.

The idea that gaming as a hobby might have something to do with this is no different from the people who blame rock music for causing drug addiction and violent media for causing mass shootings.

That is not to say we shouldn't care when people do it, or deal with it, but we should be looking at the root cause, not pointing the finger at one of the many areas where such behaviour occurs. Because if gaming did not exist, the people who sent those threats would still almost certainly be the same kind of people who did the things I linked above.

I think Jim is absolutely spot on with what he says, it is a problem for gaming in the sense that these people are causing issues, and we should deal with it. But it isn't because of gamers or gaming. We need to be looking at what causes to people behave like this in the first place, and how to deal with it. Not point fingers at gaming, because that is not really any different from what the politicians did after the mass shootings, and that was widely criticised.

I'll disagree with this not being about game culture. In your examples, taking a certain perspective, they can highlight problems of politics and/or TV in and of themselves. They all have a connection (a woman making a stand), but it doesn't, and might not need to be made to find the route of the issue (not saying that's necessarily the case with Hepler here, but just to get that point on the table).

But even OT, these threats come back to bite all of 'us, the gaming community', if even for the simple fact that the message of a threat means something to all people, but in different ways. In my eyes, you can forget about what everyone outside of the game community thinks, this becomes OUR problem because we're threatening developers, the ONLY people who make the games that we enjoy and bind this group of people together. That AT LEAST earns them a spot somewhere in the game community circle. In this video, I think Jim was considering the possibility of cutting these people off from the community (which comes with its own problems).

TLDR; This is a people problem (as you have stated).

But you DID mention 'game culture', which brings about a new question: Do games control game culture, or do gamers control game culture?

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