The Big Picture: In Defense of "Booth Babes" (sort of)

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In Defense of "Booth Babes" (sort of)

MovieBob gives us several good reasons to re-think our idea of the "Booth Babe".

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A good summary of the problem with "Booth Babes". Can't really think of anything you left out.

I've noticed that, increasingly, I disagree with your film reviews, but The Big Picture is at minimum food for thought and usually quite insightful, as was the case today.

image

Yeah from the very first paragraphs of the script to this video, all faith is lost already that it will have some coherent and or intelligent thing to say, add or even make some kind of attempt at a reasonable discussion with different views and also counterarguments presented and talked about.

Alright, see ya next week i guess...

Good questions.

Too bad I don't really have any answers. Let's hope Beyond Good and Evil has some sort of future influence on a future game designer.

Yeah that is a kind of a white knight, but I don't see the same thing in car industry. Like Pachter says: stop whining! There are too many cry babies in this induestry.

PS: that is towards people who complain about models in convention.

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

First of all its kind of weak in and of itself to come to the rescue and defend something that you yourself say we should just forget are there and kind of "treat them as people" as you say, but then why would they in that case need defending or discussion on why its not ok to treat them as lesser beings because people already agree with that so...

I mean jesus christ the majority of this video can be summarized with:

Hey guys did you know that uhm, booth babes are people and dont need defending or shouldnt be attacked because it wouldnt hurt to treat them as people, did you know that water is still wet? Did you know that youre by default a sexist gaming asshole for not agreeing with this or not praising me for bringing up such a nonissue that is already a widely accepted viewpoint that its not ok to treat other people differently based on who they are?

I suspect that the "They are clearly not into it" attitude is a case of people projecting onto others. "They are being paid to be there so clearly they are not into it or else they wouldn't need to be paid to be there" or something similar.

Although that said, being hired to do a job doesn't necessarily mean that you do care about it. I sincerely doubt most people working in McDonalds seriously give a damn whether or not you want fries with that, but if it pays, then people are going to be willing to do it. Some models may simply want some work experience on their CV, and to be honest there is nothing wrong with that. Perhaps they see it as a stepping stone to an area of modelling they are passionate about.

I don't have anything against them, but they don't really serve any positive purpose for the most part. They seem to make both guys and girls quite uncomfortable more than anything. The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs, and girls because they can make them feel like outsiders.

I just cannot really see what would be lost by not having them at conventions when it comes down to it. Unless they are cosplaying as characters from a game they are promoting or something, but from what I have seen, that doesn't seem to be the most common situation where they are hired.

brazuca:
Yeah that is a kind of a white knight, but I don't see the same thing in car industry. Like Pachter says: stop whining! There are too many cry babies in this induestry.

PS: that is towards people who complain about models in convention.

Equally as dumb as those who whine about the whiners themselves, coming off as "Sexism is bad...mmkay" rather than actually saying something of substance.
Yeah, its bad that people in ALL communities regardless of its gaming or not are being treated differently based on arbitrary things by stupid people, people ALREADY agree on this point.
So then to come and say: hey guys, trolls are bad and trolling is bad, could you guys stop doing that please?

I mean who is it really going to reach, trolls will just be trolls regardless if they affiliate themselves and set up camp in gaming conventions or write stupid shit on Kotaku.

Legion:
I suspect that the "They are clearly not into it" attitude is a case of people projecting onto others. "They are being paid to be there so clearly they are not into it or else they wouldn't need to be paid to be there" or something similar.

Although that said, being hired to do a job doesn't necessarily mean that you do care about it. I sincerely doubt most people working in McDonalds seriously give a damn whether or not you want fries with that, but if it pays, then people are going to be willing to do it. Some models may simply want some work experience on their CV, and to be honest there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't have anything "against" them, but they don't really serve any positive purpose for the most part. They seem to make both guys and girls quite uncomfortable more than anything. The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs, and girls because they can make them feel like outsiders.

I just cannot really see what would be lost by not having them at conventions when it comes down to it. Unless they are cosplaying as characters from a game they are promoting or something, but from what I have seen, that doesn't seem to be the most common situation where they are hired.

Gaming as a whole wont "suffer" for not having them there and equally it wont negatively affect anyone in a practical sense, maybe in a subjective opinion and extremely biased and principle sense yes but that still holds no value to an actual argument to say: How dare someone get paid to do a job they wanted and do something that i dont like QQQQQ.

Then again neither will society as a whole or the gaming community suffer from trolls just being trolls, regardless of who they claim they "represent". People whining at booth babes dont really have as much of an impact as Bob seems to want us to believe, in reality it makes no difference whether we have them or not or whether people like them or not.

I do dislike being preached at.

But I also do not go to conventions because I hate people and despise large gatherings. That these trade shows have been opened to the public disgusts me, in fact. The only people that have any business being there are professionals.

As for models of all stripes, I have a hard time taking that seriously as a career. I do know that sitting around getting your picture taken is exhausting from my wedding photo shoot and I also really hate being the center of attention. But even then, the job is just looking good or at least appealing, which is not exactly the same thing. I can understand the suicide rate among models because, were I one, I'd kill myself because I would view myself as an empty vessel with no talent or skill beyond getting people to like me.

As for booth babes themselves, I don't think the term is going anywhere because alliteration is catchy and so long as the general public is allowed at trade shows, what appeals to the unwashed plebs will stick. But if I ever found myself in a position to have a booth at one of these shows, i would hire women and men to stand around in tight t-shirts and short shorts. Equal opportunity objectification, that's me.

Wow, not even 3 posts in and we already have White knight being tossed around. The gaming community already has problems with female representation and interaction as is and having these models may not make it better. While I will agree to classing up the joint and making the place more inclusive, I would argue that these models have a right to exist and that some people do treat them badly.

I don't have many solutions beside full blown reeducation on manners and how to treat women like people: replace the logo shirts with cosplays of characters (take emphasis away from the TnA and on to the actual game assets), have more security patrols around to intervene against harassment, keep alcohol well clear of the showplace and present entry to anyone drunk. These however are all solutions to outward synonyms and not internal issues as that issue is far more engrained and will require sunlight and interaction.

P.S. anyone who uses a white knight allegation loses the argument in my book as you are resorting to simple logical fallacies and prove yourself incapable of forming rational counteraugments. Also, if anyone wishes to put me on the spot for some fallacy or lack of information, do so and I will try to argue my point better.

Monxeroth:

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

First of all its kind of weak in and of itself to come to the rescue and defend something that you yourself say we should just forget are there and kind of "treat them as people" as you say, but then why would they in that case need defending or discussion on why its not ok to treat them as lesser beings because people already agree with that so...

I mean jesus christ the majority of this video can be summarized with:

Hey guys did you know that uhm, booth babes are people and dont need defending or shouldnt be attacked because it wouldnt hurt to treat them as people, did you know that water is still wet? Did you know that youre by default a sexist gaming asshole for not agreeing with this or not praising me for bringing up such a nonissue that is already a widely accepted viewpoint that its not ok to treat other people differently based on who they are?

and yet we still have issues about it so it's worth talking about if perhaps in a more constructed debate. Honestly, a soupbox is something designed to force debate among ourselves so let's do this and consider both the models and the conventions in the conversation.

Izanagi009:
Wow, not even 3 posts in and we already have White knight being tossed around. The gaming community already has problems with female representation and interaction as is and having these models may not make it better. While I will agree to classing up the joint and making the place more inclusive, I would argue that these models have a right to exist and that some people do treat them badly.

I don't have many solutions beside full blown reeducation on manners and how to treat women like people: replace the logo shirts with cosplays of characters (take emphasis away from the TnA and on to the actual game assets), have more security patrols around to intervene against harassment, keep alcohol well clear of the showplace and present entry to anyone drunk. These however are all solutions to outward synonyms and not internal issues as that issue is far more engrained and will require sunlight and interaction.

P.S. anyone who uses a white knight allegation loses the argument in my book as you are resorting to simple logical fallacies and prove yourself incapable of forming rational counteraugments. Also, if anyone wishes to put me on the spot for some fallacy or lack of information, do so and I will try to argue my point better.

1. Yeah because thats totally not what in reality is going on and gamers are just "throwing it around" like free pencils at the post office *facepalm*

2. It does have its fair share of problem not isolated to one gender against another or from one community to a specific gender, take your generilization somewhere else please. The models literally change nothing besides a very small demographic who subjectively object to them in more or less intelligent ways, nothing else.

3.We already have inclusivety and not enough personalities in the community or good examples of it are being highlighted becausse its much easier to strawman and shout sexism towards already exclusive aspects to the community instead of yknow, looking for the good things and evaluating them instead like yknow intelligent people do .__.

4.Re-education? Notsureifseriousotrolling.jpg

5.Yeah lets treat the entire community that is already being generalized by idiots such as you and treat them even worse, wow what an amazingly good incentive to start shying away from their previous sexist selves...

Izanagi009:

Monxeroth:

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

First of all its kind of weak in and of itself to come to the rescue and defend something that you yourself say we should just forget are there and kind of "treat them as people" as you say, but then why would they in that case need defending or discussion on why its not ok to treat them as lesser beings because people already agree with that so...

I mean jesus christ the majority of this video can be summarized with:

Hey guys did you know that uhm, booth babes are people and dont need defending or shouldnt be attacked because it wouldnt hurt to treat them as people, did you know that water is still wet? Did you know that youre by default a sexist gaming asshole for not agreeing with this or not praising me for bringing up such a nonissue that is already a widely accepted viewpoint that its not ok to treat other people differently based on who they are?

and yet we still have issues about it so it's worth talking about if perhaps in a more constructed debate. Honestly, a soupbox is something designed to force debate among ourselves so let's do this and consider both the models and the conventions in the conversation.

Then i suggest we have a more constructed video on it where subjective bias isnt thrown around like makrell and sardines to sea lions.

Legion:
*SNIP*
The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs *SNIP*

as a guy, I confirm that.
they do make me feel uncomfortable and manipulated.

and since they do contribute to the idea of "boys club" in video games, making women uncomfortable too, I do think not having them would be for the best.

the antithesis:
I do dislike being preached at.

But I also do not go to conventions because I hate people and despise large gatherings. That these trade shows have been opened to the public disgusts me, in fact. The only people that have any business being there are professionals.

I'm similar of opinion, we do need to have people act more professional in these conventions and act with dignity towards actual humans but at the same time, how open the trade shows are to public viewing is dependent on the organizers only so unless we start making a giant mess of it, it won't change quickly.

As for models of all stripes, I have a hard time taking that seriously as a career. I do know that sitting around getting your picture taken is exhausting from my wedding photo shoot and I also really hate being the center of attention. But even then, the job is just looking good or at least appealing, which is not exactly the same thing. I can understand the suicide rate among models because, were I one, I'd kill myself because I would view myself as an empty vessel with no talent or skill beyond getting people to like me.

I have a feeling that a few of the models think this way and probably only do it to get a bit extra money. Still, imagine being harassed by a significant amount of people and not being able to do anything about like retort back unless you want to possibly lose your job and you can get a idea of the difficulty.

As for booth babes themselves, I don't think the term is going anywhere because alliteration is catchy and so long as the general public is allowed at trade shows, what appeals to the unwashed plebs will stick. But if I ever found myself in a position to have a booth at one of these shows, i would hire women and men to stand around in tight t-shirts and short shorts. Equal opportunity objectification, that's me.

Just say models, people, it's slightly more accurate and shorter so just quit it with the BB. As for my booth design. I would have men and women present but not in objectifying outfits but in outfits taken from the game itself (with modifications for public decency), that way, people will be drawn to the booth all the same but not because of excessive TnA but because of "hey, this character looks interesting, I want to check the game out to see what world he/she is in and how the person plays). It's a matter of drawing people to the game not the physical anatomy

*sighs*

we really are getting a LOT of 'common sense' content lately, it's getting kinda depressing.

Monxeroth:
*Long-winded Youtube video*

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

The video lost the rest of its already shaky credibility on 7:05 with "everyone's favourite lesbian lumberjack." (The majority was lost underway, including on some creative characterizations of MovieBob, although he himself is not always the most delicate in avoiding name calling.)

Izzyisme:

Please just ignore Monxeroth. He goes to every single thread about gender and tries to stat fights, It's not worth it. Obvious troll is obvious.

Damn, I did not see that post before after posting. I might be wasting my time here.

jaded zombie:

Legion:
*SNIP*
The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs *SNIP*

as a guy, I confirm that.
they do make me feel uncomfortable and manipulated.

and since they do contribute to the idea of "boys club" in video games, making women uncomfortable too, I do think not having them would be for the best.

Well the only real way to win is not to play, if you dont want to buy a certain product because of its choice of marketing and promotion, you are always free to do so :D

Of course then youll have to have equal respect for those who DO make the choice based on that to buy in to the product and its promotion.

Johkmil:

Monxeroth:
*Long-winded Youtube video*

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

The video lost the rest of its already shaky credibility on 7:05 with "everyone's favourite lesbian lumberjack." (The majority was lost underway, including on some creative characterizations of MovieBob, although he himself is not always the most delicate in avoiding name calling.)

Wellthatslikeyouropinionman.jpg

I guess its too bad most of the "creative characterizations of moviebob" actually hold water, actually has substance and more than often hit spot on, if they didnt your argument mightve been just as reasonable but ah well, try again, maybe next time, good luck on that.

Of course he isnt, to err is human you know and never once did i imply i could ever justify namecalling even in the embed video so...not sure what the hissy fit is all about :L

Izzyisme:

Monxeroth:

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

First of all its kind of weak in and of itself to come to the rescue and defend something that you yourself say we should just forget are there and kind of "treat them as people" as you say, but then why would they in that case need defending or discussion on why its not ok to treat them as lesser beings because people already agree with that so...

I mean jesus christ the majority of this video can be summarized with:

Hey guys did you know that uhm, booth babes are people and dont need defending or shouldnt be attacked because it wouldnt hurt to treat them as people, did you know that water is still wet? Did you know that youre by default a sexist gaming asshole for not agreeing with this or not praising me for bringing up such a nonissue that is already a widely accepted viewpoint that its not ok to treat other people differently based on who they are?

Please just ignore Monxeroth. He goes to every single thread about gender and tries to stat fights, It's not worth it. Obvious troll is obvious.

Because theres already so much diversity in topics on here its either damned if you do damned if you dont. Perhaps it would be easier to go to other threads if there were other topics being discussed but...all i can really see is each thread telling me how shit the gaming community is and also

Really? Youre going to pull out the troll signs to someone who disagrees? Wow, that didnt take long i guess

Monxeroth:

jaded zombie:

Legion:
*SNIP*
The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs *SNIP*

as a guy, I confirm that.
they do make me feel uncomfortable and manipulated.

and since they do contribute to the idea of "boys club" in video games, making women uncomfortable too, I do think not having them would be for the best.

Well the only real way to win is not to play, if you dont want to buy a certain product because of its choice of marketing and promotion, you are always free to do so :D

Of course then youll have to have equal respect for those who DO make the choice based on that to buy in to the product and its promotion.

I understand what you're saying
but most of the times the product has nothing to do with the method of promotion

should I not support developers that I like because some sleazy guy in the marketing department thinks less of its fanbase?

Drinking game! Every time someone uses the term "white knight" in this thread. You people need some more catch phrases to make your reductive opinions not so repetitive.

jaded zombie:

Monxeroth:

jaded zombie:

as a guy, I confirm that.
they do make me feel uncomfortable and manipulated.

and since they do contribute to the idea of "boys club" in video games, making women uncomfortable too, I do think not having them would be for the best.

Well the only real way to win is not to play, if you dont want to buy a certain product because of its choice of marketing and promotion, you are always free to do so :D

Of course then youll have to have equal respect for those who DO make the choice based on that to buy in to the product and its promotion.

I understand what you're saying
but most of the times the product has nothing to do with the method of promotion

should I not support developers that I like because some sleazy guy in the marketing department thinks less of its fanbase?

Im not gonna tell you to do anything because i believe you already possess the capacity to make that decision on your own and that each decision be it subjectively biased or not should be considered and should be equally valid in a discussion about whether or not its right or wrong.

Thats a common phenomenon in marketing and promotion anyway, i mean what does flying pieces of bread have to do with me saving more money on car insurance? Im looking at you, lendo >_>

varmintx:
Drinking game! Every time someone uses the term "white knight" in this thread. You people need some more catch phrases to make your reductive opinions not so repetitive.

Haha, so far its been more of people talking about people who use the term white knight than there has been actual people on here actually using the term, man i love circlejerking so much.

MovieBob, I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about everyone rushing in to address the symptoms of the problem (in this case, latent misogyny present is the gaming community) instead of actually trying to FIX the real problem. Of course, that's because the symptoms can easily be fixed by rules ("We're going to ban 'booth babes' from the convention, because we want to be gender inclusive" instead of "Um, people, maybe we should do a better job of being an inclusive gaming society here. You think? Maybe? Hello?"

Then again, I think society loves to do that in general. Really fixing an issue takes deep though, hard work, and (many times) tough choices. Removing symptoms? That's easy! And it makes us feel like we accomplished something!

Fair points Bob. People do tend to go a bit crazy with the "booth babe" junk. To the point where it doesn't sound like they really are talking about people anymore.

And I also remember an incident, similar to what you're talking about, that led Cory and Grey to make a comic about the thing.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10060-Fake-Geek-Girls

It would just be funny, if there weren't people who actually believe it was real. ;p

It's funny because Computex Taipei 2013 recently happened, it's the world's 2nd largest tech convention where a TON of major tech companies (Asus, nVidia, AMD, etc) get to reveal/promote their newest products to the world.

One of the big attractions of that event (besides all the new sexy tech) were the "booth babes" - i.e. models who wore the respective colors/tattoos of the companies they were representing and promoting. Their job was to walk around the showroom floor, attract attention, wave signs, hand out information, guide people to booths, pose with tech for photos, dance to music, etc.

For example the ASRock girl (with an Intel bag!):

And the G.Skill girls, probably some of the best in the show:


Yes, that's RAM they're holding. Low-latency high performance sexy RAM. Mmmmmm-*gets slapped on the head*

BLARGH pulling away from that, frankly I didn't really see any mass-complaints about the booth babes, in the end people still went there for TECH and they got what they wanted - the girls were the icing on the cake. Their job is to promote the product and attract attention - and it works, so that's exactly what the companies will keep doing! It also gets those models jobs/experience and gets them paid.

Plus this is tech we're talking about here, we've got reviewers and PC geeks to drone on and on about the performance for months to come...but we've only got those few precious days to flaunt the colors, girls, make some noise, attract some media, have a party, etc and they TAKE that chance.

Monxeroth:

Johkmil:

Monxeroth:
*Long-winded Youtube video*

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

The video lost the rest of its already shaky credibility on 7:05 with "everyone's favourite lesbian lumberjack." (The majority was lost underway, including on some creative characterizations of MovieBob, although he himself is not always the most delicate in avoiding name calling.)

Wellthatslikeyouropinionman.jpg

I guess its too bad most of the "creative characterizations of moviebob" actually hold water, actually has substance and more than often hit spot on, if they didnt your argument mightve been just as reasonable but ah well, try again, maybe next time, good luck on that.

Of course he isnt, to err is human you know and never once did i imply i could ever justify namecalling even in the embed video so...not sure what the hissy fit is all about :L

Oh, his arguments might or might not hold water, but when he is completely unable to mention Bob without his personal weight, they are pulled into the depths.
And hissy fit? I am barely irritated at worst. Becoming emotional about internet issues is the definition of wasted energy.

And lo, witness friends, feminists stamp their tootsies about how demeaning booth babes are as a concept and how they obviously represent sexualisation and objectification and misogyny and they have to be stopped.

And it was granted.

And lo, witness friends, feminists have begun stamping their feet that because we capitulated, now it means that being attractive and female and unashamed of those things isn't appreciated anymore and that obviously represents objectification and sexualisation and misogyny.

And all of this is your fault.

For those that care what others think more than I do, I refer you to Seymour Skinner for the magic words to an easy life dealing with these people.

"Just tell me what to say."

Edit: This episode was done better in New Girl. The main character has a seriously hot friend who is a model and had a gig one episode for a car show, basically doing the booth babe thing. Obviously, she thought she could smack it with a minimum of effort because lolmodelling, how hard can it be to an intelligent woman, right? Lessons were learned, hilarity ensured, and nobody had to look like a tool on their weekly show.

I've been saying for years that nobody pisses on women and the things they actually choose to do more than feminist types. It wasn't people like me that were clambering for the crap you lot are apparently fixing to complain about now.

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