Zero Punctuation: Pikmin 3

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This is one of the best comment sections yet!
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Might pick up a Wii-U at Christmas, now that the price has gone down and games I want are starting to pop up.

So this game's best selling point is that it makes U want to WII?

You know, while I don't like Yahtzee's hatred for the Wii U, I can't help but admit that he definitely brings up a lot of good points about Pikmin 3, although you CAN use the Wii Remote to control the Pikmin, which I bet makes things a Hell of a lot easier.

Hell, twoards the middle and to the end of the video, his description of the story of the game is eerily accurate. Like seriously, Pikmin 3 is a freaking dark-ass game!

Oh, and there ARE Pikmin parasites that control young Bulborbs, but they only appear in the second game.

I'm sorry, but I am offended by your depiction of the Pikmin 3 box as shy with a rose in its' head. Everyone knows Nintendo would never allow queer boxes to get near and harm innocent children.

I can't in good conscience continue watching Zero Punctuation after that. It made me feel uneasy, and I'm ashamed Mr Croshaw brought it up.

Mr F.:
snip

So We are the ones missing the point?
The guys cracking jokes on the internet?
Not the guy who completely misses the point of this being satirical in nature?
We?
Ok, fair enough, let's address your points then.
1. The apology.

Yeah he apologized and that's cool and everything, we still get to make fun of the situation, because as someone who has made a name for himself taking the piss out of anyone and anything, apologizing for a joke is still kinda unusual.
And I still stand by my assessment that holocaust jokes are higher up on the "offensive-joke"-scale.

2. The joke did not victimize a community.
Simple as that. It was offensive, yes, but it didn'T "victimize" an entire community.

3. Infallibility: No, not really, it was more akin to taking the piss out of the outrage the last video spawned with people creating accounts just to say how outraged they were.

4. "Not a whiteknight, BUUUUUT"...

5. So trans-people have it hard. Ghee wizz if only anyone in one of the countless other threads on the subject had thought to bring that little tidbit of information up, I never would have made my oh so insensitive jokes...

6. "Trans people have it bad"-rant: Still, nothing new here, just leaves me wondering where you got your statistics and all.

7 "You disgust me": Ah, always good to end on a strong high-note to maybe convince whomever you're arguing with to agree with you or to see the issue at hand from your point of view, after all nothing brings someone around to a cause like good old fashioned insults.

All in all: Really not worth my time. If you are so quick to pass judgement over others whilst vigourusly stroking your ego, then I can't do anything to change your point of view, then again, I don't care about you enough to want to.
If you truly believe that these kinds of jokes are damaging to the trans-cause then I can't help you, let it suffice to say that I strongly disagree with your take on the matter and that maybe attacking nigh-anonymous members of an internet forum for cracking jokes might not be as productive as educating the general public about trans-people.

Also: Wanna know my take on trans-people in general? Yeah?
Ok, here we go: I think that trans-people are in a very bad position and that a lot still needs to be done to allow them to seamlessly integrate into society as normal members of the general public, not made easier by the fact that they are in a bit of a standoff, what with transsexualism being classified as a medical-condition and with them requiring SRS, a medical procedure, in order to feel "right", which some people might not understand. At the same time, I am also against the notion that trans-people should not be critizised and that making fun of them is a no-go, for I believe that everyone should be ok to be made fun of, if the jokes is GOOD and worthwile that is, however I do not endorse violent behaviour or unkind words towards trans-people IRL and I have told people of who were making fun of a trans-MTF.
After all this, I think it's important to add that each and everyone you meet should be judged on his/her merits and achievements and not as a part of a larger group they happen to be a part of.

Now, let me present an "offensive" trans-joke to you, as a reference point, because this is a joke I'd consider "crossing the line".


In this joke, the fact that the individuals are trans doesn't contribute anything towards the joke and the punchline is that them being trans means that they'd be better of dead / the narrator would want for them to die. THAT'S an offensive joke if I ever saw one.

If you truly wish to argue about this, you're welcome to join one of my upcoming communicasts though on which I will moderate a discussion about the issues trans-people face on a daily basis.

Calibanbutcher:
*SNIP*

Making this quick because I am about to jump into the bath.

The joke normalised the view that Trans women are not women. That is the entire point. That normalisation leads to victimisation. Was the joke a direct attack on Trans people? Well, it was a direct attack on trans women, Yes. I am tarring you all with the same brush because the outcry is fucking stupid due to that fact and because of people, in all three threads, declaring that FTM trans people are not male, should not be considered as male and post op should not be considered male.

You are all one and the same. Normalising the shitty treatment of trans people.

Trans jokes can be funny. The Cowboys episode of Dr Who had a good one with a trans horse.

*remembers youtube*

BAM.

A joke about transexuals that does not normalise treating them like shit, normalise them being freaks and does not assume control over someones identity.

Sure, I can find horrific jokes. The joke you said was not even the worst I have heard. I have an utterly evil collection of jokes.

Thing is...

The fact that some jokes are worse than others doesn't change squat.

You seem intelligent, you know that.

Mr F.:
nother snip

Again, making jokes does not equal declaring MTF-trans-people male nor female, especially not the jokes made in this thread and jokes don't assume control over someone's life.

But if you insist that I "normalise the shitty treatment of trans-people" despite me having provided (anecdotal) evidence to the contrary then I have nothing left to say to you and all that remains for me to do is wish you a good day.

Also, how is that Dr. Who joke less offensive?
Doesn't if imply that being trans is a "choice"?
(As in flat out call it a LIFE-CHOICE.)

That seems more offensive to me than a group of people taking the piss out of not one but TWO previous shitstorms (the original one about the joke and the second one about the joke being changed), but apparently I am still a horrible person for having made a humorous contribution to an otherwise peaceful thread.

Well if you're cool with that, maybe you aren't that much better than all of those whom you look down upon after all.
Maybe you can fet of your incredibly high horse then and realize that even the jokes you deem appropriate are, in fact, in-appropriate.

Again I extend my invitation to discuss this matter further in a different setting:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.828060-The-glorious-return-of-the-sexy-cast-Now-with-all-new-LGBT-content

Mr F.:
THE SNIPPEST OF SNIPS

You know, I originally wasn't going to respond to this, as I thought it would just be a waste of everyone's time. But I thought it over, and even if it lands me into a ton of arguments, I figure it can't possibly get any worse than I think it will.

Let's ignore your points about "FOR FUCK"S SAKE!" or "What the fuck is wrong with you people?" (BTW, no joke, I'm honored that you pull that one out during my post) We'll get to them later, but for now let's concentrate on some other things for a moment:

1)The apology: was Yahtzee acting out of his own accord when he made the apology? Yes. Did he have every right to make that apology? Yes. Was the apology necessary? No, it wasn't. And really, that's why me and several others made fun of it, because it was no worse than any of his other material. We didn't do it because we felt that his publishers were pushing the matter, we didn't do it because we felt that Yahtzee's freedom of speech was being trampled over, we didn't do it because we think Yahtzee's job is being held hostage so he has to apologize, we did it because, in the end, it was silly in that he apologized in the first place.

2)Content creator: this is about him being the content creator and having the power to change his videos, and incidentally, his "other" apology. This is also the part that, for me personally, I made fun of, because looking back at what he replaced it with, it wasn't a case that the line fit better, or that the dialogue was more snappy as a result, or that everything flowed better now. There's a difference between him changing something because he feels it makes for a more well-rounded and better experience, and him changing something because people raised a fit about it. Yes generally speaking, people raising a fit usually indicates where the problem lies, but this wasn't an issue of style, this was an issue of subject, and as it has been mentioned before when we are talking about a man who is quite well known to have no subject that is off limits, this just comes across as an arbitrary line that shouldn't be crossed.

3) Bullying: so we're bullying Yahtzee? Us, making a simple, one-off joke? Have any of us threatened him? Made him feel inadequate about himself? Gone to lengths to torment him? No, we made a simple joke. Christ, if that makes us bullies than I guess the whole of comedy is nothing more than just juvenile bullying huh? Now, that isn't fair for me to say, I know, but realistically what is it about what we've done that made us bullies huh? Because if that's all you got, you have a really flimsy argument going on.

4)Trans have it worse than straight: was this ever a point of discussion? No, honestly, when did any of us say "Fuck them trans, straight people all the way, biatch!" or anything similar to that affect? Further, why do you bother bringing it up in the first place? This is The Escapist, do you know how many topics we've had pertaining to transgenderism? The amount of terms we've learned because these threads happen over, and over, and over, and over again? Do you honestly think that what you're bringing to the table is something that none of us have heard before, and therefore that's why we all made the jokes we did? You know, had you not brought up the issues of white knighting, e-penis, or enlightenment, I wouldn't even bother thinking of them now. But seeing as how you brought them up yourself, all I can say is that you're not helping your case by making a point of that.

5) We're attacking the trans community: do you honestly think that when Yahtzee said "I'm not gay, I just suck off pre-op transsexuals" that we were all rubbing our hands together in glee? Do you think we all looked at that and went "Good, good. The trans must be ostracized for their wicked ways!" because we are all secretly transphobic? Do you think that's why we joked, because we were angry that he took away what we perceived as a necessary attack on the trans community? As we've said, time and time again, it has nothing to do with the subject itself that made us joke, but rather that he changed it at all. It wouldn't matter if it were a joke about gay people, straight people, men, women, children, the elderly, black people, white people, South Americans, Russians, the French, Japanese people, the rich, the poor, the middle class, the religious, the non-religious, capitalists, socialists, communists, fascists, anarchists, terrorists, the military, masochists, sadists, pedophiles, holocaust victims, or even mole people, it was the fact that he changed it at all that made us make jokes. NOT. THE. FACT. THAT. THE. JOKE. WAS. ABOUT. TRANS. PEOPLE.

6) I saved this one for last, because of your ever amazing way of ending the post with "You all disgust me" in connection with things such as "FOR FUCK'S SAKE" "What the fuck is wrong with you people" and "Are you fucking serious" I have to ask a very, very important question: what do you hope to gain out of all of this? Try to make us feel ashamed of ourselves and change our minds? Because honestly all you're doing is making me think of how juvenile you must be to resort to that tactic, especially since it wasn't like you just grouped us all together and made one broad statement for all of us, but because you took the time to post a new one after every quote. And honestly, if I start to think someone is juvenile, all I can than think is that they aren't really interested in trying to understand or start a dialogue, rather they're just interested in making a point, trying to make people feel ashamed, and leave it at that as the sole arbiter of this discussion. All it does for your argument is that it puts it into a position to be dismissed, because clearly if you're going into this discussion with an attitude of "Fuck it, I'm right, and everyone else is just throwing around horse shit" guess what, we aren't going to take your argument seriously. We won't see it as an appeal for us to reconsider our position, or open ourselves up to discussion, we will simply see it as someone who's trying to make it a point of coming across as being offended and using such a point to establish an arbitrary measurement of who's right and who's wrong.

So in the end, consider this: when you were making your post, for what purpose was it for? Was it to simply call people out in an attempt to make them feel ashamed? If that's the case, then your post doesn't really hold merit as a legitimate argument if that was the extent of it's goal. Was it to change people's minds and have them reconsider their opinions? If that's the case, your post failed to make that appeal and merely left us wondering why you bothered in the first place. Is your post in fact meant to be a cleverly disguised troll? If that's the case, congratulations sir, as you're clearly working at a level I've rarely encountered.

Oh for fucks sake. You know, that was simply offensive. I guess that was the point?

Nope the point was that it was a 30 second throw away joke making light of the frankly banal nature of the recent up roar surrounding what was probably an off hand joke thought up in 30 seconds to be included in an episode of Zero Punctuation.

I could do a bullet point tear down of your post but

1). Several other folk have already done that
2). I was able to muster just enough fucks about the content of your post to post this

Calibanbutcher:

Mr F.:
snip

So We are the ones missing the point?
The guys cracking jokes on the internet?
Not the guy who completely misses the point of this being satirical in nature?
We?
Ok, fair enough, let's address your points then.
1. The apology.

Yeah he apologized and that's cool and everything, we still get to make fun of the situation, because as someone who has made a name for himself taking the piss out of anyone and anything, apologizing for a joke is still kinda unusual.
And I still stand by my assessment that holocaust jokes are higher up on the "offensive-joke"-scale.

The problem is people don't seem to understand the difference between a joke that simple makes light of something offensive and one that genuinely expouses an offensive opinion. Yahtzee makes light of everything. I think boiling it down to "holocaust jokes" and "transexual jokes" also boils out the reason that yahtzee felt the need to apologize. Intent and context matters.

Genocidicles:
I'm sorry but the references to the Battle of Somme were highly distressing to me. The Battle of Somme is one of the bloodiest battles in human history, where over a million men were wounded or killed. It makes me sick that such a thing was made light of, and I request that it be changed.

I can't in good conscience continue watching Zero Punctuation after that. It made me feel uneasy, and I'm ashamed Mr Croshaw brought it up.

I logged in after months, perhaps years, away from this site just to tell you to stop clutching your pearls and go have a nap on your fainting couch.

Kanatatsu:
I logged in after months, perhaps years, away from this site just to tell you to stop clutching your pearls and go have a nap on your fainting couch.

If you've been away for so long then you probably didn't realise I was making a joke.

Y'see... The episode of ZP before this one included a joke about transgendered people, and so many people whined about it, Yahtzee changed it.

So I (and a few others) posted in mock outrage, to show how stupid it is.

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