Movie Defense Force: Daredevil

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I thought I was entering this thread to be unique and say that I quite liked Daredevil. But... most of the thread did that. So apparently I'm not the unique flower I was expecting to be. :p

But yeah, I thought Ben Affleck was quite good in the film. I liked pretty much everything about the film...

Except for the Fridging of Electra.

I don't know or care if it happened in the comics; it was absolutely unnecessary to kill her off that way in the movie. Her death only serves to further Daredevil's story, which is the definition of "woman in the fridge". And it is pointlessly dark for the sake of being dark.

Okay. I've been wanting to bitch about that for a decade or so. I feel better now.

I didn't like Daredevil when I saw it. I wouldn't like it if I watched it now.

EXCEPT

The Director's Cut. The additional storyline really added an extra layer to the movie that took me by surprise. The Director's Cut of Daredevil honestly opened me up to believing other director's cuts might be just as good.

...then I saw the Green Lantern one and now I just don't know what to believe.

Irridium:
I remember seeing this like five years ago. People made it out to be complete shit, but it was alright.

Speaking of complete shit, Jim, please do Batman and Robin one of these days. That movie is glorious and amazing and hilarious and could use a good defending.

Seconded on both accounts. The whole "Batfleck" thing caused me to state that I liked Daredevil just the other day, actually.

And I've long held the stance that I think Batman & Robin is a legitimately good film, if not for the express reasons that anyone involved in the actual production of it intended... but it always struck me as something of a middle point between the grimdark Gothic-inspired Burton Batman and the overly campy, silly Adam West Batman, that managed to stride the line remarkably well considering how often Forever stumbled off to one side or the other while trying to same balancing act. Sure, it might not be faithful to the comics or even portray any of the Batman characters particularly well, but it's hilarious, fun to watch, and has Schwarzenegger dropping ice puns like they were hot. Plus, as bad of a Batman as he might have been, Clooney at least has more stage presence than Val "Cardboard Cutout" Kilmer.

Crap I've never seen this movie.

I just had a pre disposition for loathing Ben. Jim your not using your influence to ask me to watch this cause I respect you? Son of a bitch.....

Alright... I'll put this on my to do list. I do like michael clark duncan. But i don't feel he's above reproach.

I have yet to see the director's cut of Daredevil, but I can say from the theatrical release that its so so. The CGI was overused and awful, the script was rather subpar, and it went a bit too dark with certain moments (when DD killed the crook in the subway scene). However, the actors, including Ben Affleck and the late Michael Clarke Duncan, do the best with what they got and its a movie worth watching if only once or twice.

As for Ben pulling off Batman, that has yet to be seen. But, as I mentioned before, the fact that the people behind Man of Steel are still running this ship does not make me feel confident in its direction. Maybe Snyder will learn his lesson and perhaps get some advice from Affleck since he's got some directorial experience in the drama department. Again, we shall see.

Yeah, I actually somewhat enjoyed Daredevil, it wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination and there were some goofy or groanworthy moments, but I don't see why it's so roundly mocked/disliked...

I enjoyed the movie, though I'm not sure if the DVD copy I bought was the original release or the much more highly praised Director's Cut.

Jim, I'm glad that you pointed out that the movie was a good super hero movie FOR IT'S TIME because I've been thinking the very same thing. Folks seem to forget that Hollywood was still getting the feel of super hero movies back when Daredevil was made.

Ben Affleck is a capable actor who's done some bad movies like practically every professional actor or actress in history. He's also a two time Oscar winner--one for writing and one for directing. If he has any influence on either in the new Batman/Superman movie then it should at least have a decent plot and story.

I, too, am big on giving Affleck a chance to play Batman without automatically denouncing him as the Antichrist. ^_^

Count_A'ight:
Thank you Jim. I didn't mind Daredevil when it came out. Like the character but don't read the comic so the movie worked for me. Besides, any comic that runs for a long enough run eventually turns to crap due to a continuity that is dictated by a string of writers who don't know/care about what the previous/following writers do with the character/story.

Comics are a lot like professional wrestling. Once the audience is aware of all the standard tricks and tropes, repeat consumption is merely based on being a fanboy/girl on the property.

Depends on the writer. Daredevil's current writer, Mark Waid, is big on continuity and character history, but doesn't punish you for not knowing it. For many writers (at Marvel, at least), it's a case of "Yeah, all that stuff still happened, but let's move on to the new stuff." For Waid and Daredevil's case (see what I did there?), they still acknowledge the events of Shadowland happened (DD became the leader of The Hand and killed Bullseye), but now DD is trying to be more positive and lighter and put the grimmer and scarier stuff (everything since Frank Miller, including the runs by Brian Michael Bendis and Ed Brubaker) behind him.

Thanks for this video, Jim! I was defending Daredevil up and down for a decade, saying it's the kind of comic book movie that captures the mood of its source material. I claimed that DD has a central character arc, too, which is more than could be said for Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, who kinda stopped at "great power, great responsibility." Now, Jim, you're not letting MovieBob's cynicism and hatred of Man of Steel get to you, are you?

I give it props for the soundtrack alone. I enjoy the movie for the most part. Ben did fine. Bullseye was ok.. But the playground scene.. ugh. Anyway, I need to check out the directors cut it seems.

I loved Daredevil and still like it. I didn't even know people didn't like it until a few years ago. I just assumed it was underrated but mostly well liked. Michael Clarke Duncan's Kingpin was awesome and I love it. Colin Farrell was also fun as hell. So it isn't Batman Begins, but neither is anything else. I want to see another Daredevil movie, whoever does it.

Daredevil was an odd choice at the time. The book hadn't really been popular beyond the recent Kevin Smith run despire being the age of the X-men. He just has far fewer stories people give a shit about. The film did a decent job of emulating the more basic Daredevil story where he's just a guy in red underwear beating up low rent bad guys. It isn't a bad film, just unimspired.

I saw Daredevil, I liked it. Never saw Electra though, didn't know there was one until I saw it in a Daredevil bundle that was being sold at the stores.

Sorry Jim, not this time. I've tagged along for most of these defenses, but this one is just saying nice things for the sake of saying nice things. Of course the fact of the matter is that ALL of these are just opinions - where one might see decent acting another might see absolute shit - and so I really don't feel like getting to far into this beyond simply stating that I disagree with you. To me this movie was, is, and always will be shit.

To be fair, though, a lot of my dislike for this movie probably comes from the fact that I don't like the character itself. I'm not a huge Affleck fan, but in general I'll still say he does a decent job. But this movie makes me sick to my ass.

I remember seeing the theatrical release. It was horrid. However, I finally broke down and watched the Director's Cut.

That film was inspired. This is the movie we should have gotten. It was grittier, moodier, and paced better. The romance was more believable, actually understated even. It was a true "Director's Cut," in that the removed several minutes of film that were reshot for the theatrical, but added in over half an hour of footage that had been cut.

Affleck is like DiCaprio in my eyes. At one time, neither could act. However, they've both grown into capable actors!

I'll finish with this video (which is making the youtube rounds), a fan trailer that looks pretty darn awesome. The only thing that could make it better is Braniac!

BAH! I can't tell if I posted the thing properly...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4U4he3GgC4

The problem with Daredevil wasn't the actors, it was the direction and the script - which understood nothing about law or crime.

DD was fine, is fine and I bought it on DVD when that came out.
Like you said, all the actors are good and cast properly.

AND this movie propelled Evanescence to the forefront, so we should be forever grateful if just for that!!!
So yeah, it also has AWESOME music in it :P

What do you mean its not true hes a bad actor. He is a bad actor. it is true regardless whether you believe in it or not.

jmarquiso:
The problem with Daredevil wasn't the actors, it was the direction and the script - which understood nothing about law or crime.

At least 1/2 the problem with the movie.

Yeah, movie is 10 years old, but, thought I'd better spoiler warn.

Ever read the comic when DD fights KP after DD opens the Kingpin's safe?

Magog1:
Crap I've never seen this movie.

I just had a pre disposition for loathing Ben. Jim your not using your influence to ask me to watch this cause I respect you? Son of a bitch.....

Alright... I'll put this on my to do list. I do like michael clark duncan. But i don't feel he's above reproach.

It does have the two major problems listed above.

Also, there's a playground scene and the portrayal of Bullseye a lot of people hate. I loved both, or at least was ticked by the playground scene. In its own way, Bullseye is on par with Heath Ledger's Joker. As another poster wrote, he has exactly the right attitude and snickering humor mixed with menace. He is worth the price of admission by itself.

I really like it, but later discovered almost no-one else did.

I thought they used Super-hero physics (you know, when gravity isn't quite the same, and people are more durable than you would expect) really well, the echo-vision was iconic and the cast was great. (What, Jim, no love for a non-evil Joey Pants?) The technical side was also perfectly solid, although the story was a little by-the-numbers.

A genuinely good film, just not great.

Strazdas:
What do you mean its not true hes a bad actor. He is a bad actor. it is true regardless whether you believe in it or not.

He is a very good actor, he was fantastic in Hollywoodland, The Town and Argo, he was certainly a better Superman than Henry Cavill.

More than that though, he is a fucking great director, until he proves differently anyway. Gone Baby Gone, The Town, and Argo are superb. He has also stopped making bad decisions about what projects to take on. I am very interested to see his take on The Stand. I think it could work as a three parter like Lord of the Rings, but I don't know how you can condense it into one feature film. M-O-O-N, that spells feature film. Can't wait to see who is being cast, especially Trashcan Man, Matt Frewer is pretty close to perfect from the mini-series.

EDIT: Shit. It appears Affleck is off The Stand...so it goes...

octafish:

Strazdas:
What do you mean its not true hes a bad actor. He is a bad actor. it is true regardless whether you believe in it or not.

He is a very good actor, he was fantastic in Hollywoodland, The Town and Argo, he was certainly a better Superman than Henry Cavill.

More than that though, he is a fucking great director, until he proves differently anyway. Gone Baby Gone, The Town, and Argo are superb. He has also stopped making bad decisions about what projects to take on. I am very interested to see his take on The Stand. I think it could work as a three parter like Lord of the Rings, but I don't know how you can condense it into one feature film. M-O-O-N, that spells feature film. Can't wait to see who is being cast, especially Trashcan Man, Matt Frewer is pretty close to perfect from the mini-series.

EDIT: Shit. It appears Affleck is off The Stand...so it goes...

I havent seen hollywoodland. The Town was pretty bad but with some good ideas and Argo was that kind of movie thats so average you dont remember much of it. And i completely disagree about the superman comment.
He is better as a director, ill give you that, and thats the chair he should stay in.

And i wont speculate what he may or may not do with The Stand, about which i got a complex opinion to begin with.

I have loved Daredevil since I was a child. This love was based on access to only a few comics - Daredevil was not as common as other superhero stories in the shops where I grew up.

Revisiting the original source material is painful because of how dated much of the morality and social attitudes seem today. Also I seem to consistently forget how unlikable Matt Murdoch is. He is smug and arrogant - sexist - deceitful - chronically insecure about his blindness. The comics seem to be written as if being blind is sufficient substitute for needing to build sympathy for the character. In the early comics the romance/angst angle is thick, the character's powers slide all over the place - sometimes so powerful they break suspension of disbelief (silver age nonsense) - sometimes very fragile.

I really didn't like the film, probably because they were faithful to the source material to a degree - heavy and unrealistic romance and awkward pacing and characterisation. I would prefer DD's non-sensory powers to be definitively human-scale - and his decision to face super-powered villains and throw himself off buildings one which underlines why he is known as the "man without fear". Origin stories are always awkward and the tone feels choppy and inconsistent. It doesn't know whether it wants to be superhero - or gritty urban. It could have been an early kick-ass - instead it ends up very confused.

However Afleck nailed the smart-mouthed and unlikable Matt Murdock from the comics. Unfortunately I was reminded, again, how much my love of Daredevil was about something I had made up in my head using images and ideas from the comics - rather than what was actually in the comics.

Good defense. This is not a bad movie, it is pretty okay. And that is the only thing I really have against it - it is just an okay movie, not good. But it's certainly not the abomination some people make it out to be.
Speaking of the Director's Cut here, I never have seen the release version.

Now try defending the Punisher movies. Any of them.

I will admit to liking this movie a fair bit. To me the good comes mostly from MCD and Colin Ferrell. The sets were also very well put-together and it was a well-shot movie to boot. My problem was with Jennifer Garner's Elektra. Forgiving for a moment that I don't think Garner's a very good actress, she was just not the right pick for the role, in personality or in believability as an ass-kicking assassin.

As for Ben Affleck, I thought he turned in a decent performance too, though I definitely think he did better as Matt Murdock than as Daredevil. DD's not an easy hero to pull off, and I thought Affleck did a decent job at it, or at least as decent as anyone could. Maybe it's me, but I believe certain people play superheroes better than their secret identities and vice versa. Example, Christian Bale definitely did his Bruce Wayne scenes better than his Batman scenes. Heck, you could probably make a game out of "this actor played this superhero better as the superhero identity or the civilian identity."

I get the feeling that the SuperBat film will be bad because of writing more than the casting of Affleck. Hopefully the first half of the film isn't going to be dedicated to a Batman origin story just to make sure we know Bruce's parents were killed when he was a wee lad.

I still don't like the Daredevil film though.

The real unfortunate problem with this film is that it didn't age well, but not because the effects were bad or the usual things that go along with that statement. No, the problem is that we had more comic book hero movies come out that really changed the landscape for these things (pretty much everything Marvel has done, the Nolan Batman trilogy) and the idea now is that these kinds of movies can be more than just basic action type movies - which is all that they had been up to that point (X2 being the biggest exception IMHO).

The two biggest problems with the film to me were not enough Matt Murdoch being a lawyer (again, likely to maintain action beats and not go into a 'procedural' type of setting - though I've heard the Director's Cut puts in a whole story for that?), and the scene where Electra's dad gets offed. That scene never worked for me because visually she has no real to believe it was Daredevil and not Bullseye who killed her dad (if they'd had her believing that they were in cahoots, fine, but she didn't even seem to know Bullseye was part of it all). This leads to a third act that, to me, seems a little lost when it starts.

Ben Affleck played Blind Ben Affleck out of the costume and Leather Ben Affleck in the costume. That's not handling a superhero movie, that's being Ben Affleck. I have every bit of faith in Ben Affleck's ability to be Ben Affleck. Batman? No. Daredevil? No.

The movie is not without some good points. Colin chews the scenery in a way I wish that Affleck had, because a silly DD movie would be easier to sallow than the grim and gritty version that still looks largely ridiculous. MCD was fucking awesome, but he's MCD. And the action can be pretty good. It can also be kind of bad.

Baldry:
Also it does kinda miss the point with Daredevil on some bits, like how he kills a man and then signs his name with fire...

They were just trying to reference better movies. In this case, The Crow. They seemed to be hoping that if they hit you up with enough bits taken from other films, you'd forget what you were watching.

I saw the theatrical cut - not directors and it was terrible. You know those 'movies' on youtube, made up by stitching together the various FMV sequences in various games? It was like that.

Sgt. Sykes:
Max Payne next! That movie needs recognition as a fine videogame movie.

No, that movie completely forgot the game. The game was probably the most anti-narcotics game ever made. Max is forcibly drugged once and the sequence the follows(both the nightmare and baseball bat boy) was one of the most terrifying in videogames, at least for me(I have not played Silent Hill or FEAR 1). The moment I heard he willingly takes the same drug in the movie, I decided not to watch it at all.
And despite this, the game is rated R and the movie is rated PG.

I was actually looking forward to this movie when I saw the trailers, Mark Walburg seemed like a great choice and I thought the angles/Valkyries were supposed to be drug induced hallucinations and the bullet time was done well.

I will say sorry in advance if the things I said were not true.

Can someone tell me why this movie failed or why it is hated? I saw it and it wasn't very very good but it wasn't terrible either, unless they blew too much budget on it.
Also I support Ben Aflick as Batman. He is a diverse enough actor, he has done action roles before and he can probably pull off Bruce Wayne too. And if not him then who else? Or should the honor go to some no-name actor instead?

Zachary Amaranth:
Ben Affleck played Blind Ben Affleck out of the costume and Leather Ben Affleck in the costume. That's not handling a superhero movie, that's being Ben Affleck. I have every bit of faith in Ben Affleck's ability to be Ben Affleck. Batman? No. Daredevil? No.

Baldry:
Also it does kinda miss the point with Daredevil on some bits, like how he kills a man and then signs his name with fire...

They were just trying to reference better movies. In this case, The Crow. They seemed to be hoping that if they hit you up with enough bits taken from other films, you'd forget what you were watching.

Oh good I'm not the only one who noticed Ben Affleck only plays Ben Affleck, in fairness he is the best at being Ben Affleck.
Also if they wanted to achieve that they should've shown me the film the were copying so I at least got the reference and enjoyed a better film for a bit.

Wait, Elektra was a spin-off of this film? Really? But aside from the name of one of the characters there's absolutely nothing whatsoever that they have in common. Daredevil - blind lawyer fights regular criminals with martial arts. Elektra - prophesised chosen one fights weird spirit people with magic to prevent an ancient evil order from taking over the world.

Baldry:

Oh good I'm not the only one who noticed Ben Affleck only plays Ben Affleck, in fairness he is the best at being Ben Affleck.
Also if they wanted to achieve that they should've shown me the film the were copying so I at least got the reference and enjoyed a better film for a bit.

I normally like Ben Affleck as Ben Affleck. Which is why he's so bad for a superhero movie. Or any specific character that's not Ben Affleck. He's enjoyable, but I think he'd be a terrible James Bond, a terrible Abe Lincoln, etc. Why? Because he's Ben Affleck. That's who he is and what he does.

Showing The Crow instead of Daredevil would have been a plus. The movie's not flawless, but it is much more worth it. And a better comic book adaptation, I might add.

Kahani:
Wait, Elektra was a spin-off of this film? Really? But aside from the name of one of the characters there's absolutely nothing whatsoever that they have in common. Daredevil - blind lawyer fights regular criminals with martial arts. Elektra - prophesised chosen one fights weird spirit people with magic to prevent an ancient evil order from taking over the world.

They even had a deleted scene with Ben Affleck as Murdoch. Well, Ben Affleck as Ben Affleck, but still.

I kind of wonder if they didn't end up entirely attempting to distance the two properties.

"Yeah, sis, but it was better than Mall Rats."

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