Jimquisition: Lugoscababib Discobiscuits

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So bioshock infinite didint have chupacabra bisquits and Tomb Rider did. this... what... um... i fail at making an arguments against your point. Sir this is very embarrasing, i always find arguments agaisnt....

well done JIm, another great episode, you deserve the jacket, wear it with pride.

I honestly cocked an eye brow when Bioshock Infinite and Last of Us were brought up on this. Did the people who played the games understood the setting they were in? They apparently did not if the outcry was "ludonarrative dissonance." I still cringe when people throw that phrase around.

spartandude:
While i cant speak about Last Of Us (i havnt played it) the issue i see brought up when refering to bioshock infinite is not that its violent but that when Elisabeth sees you murder she freaks out at you (very understandable) but less than 5 minutes later shes throwing ammo at you and such and enabling you to kill, thats where the issue comes in.

What is wrong with someone caught in a life or death situation to help out by giving you the means to defend you and yours? It would be odd to for her not to help when they are being shot at is it not?

She flinches the first time as she has never seen someone killed. But when people start shooting back i would assume you would get over that quite quickly. Soldiering depends on it.

No I think you completely missed the point here Bob. This is not a dissonance issue here, instead there is wasted potential.

Bioshock Infinite has a incredible idea... but the gameplay does nothing to support it. Being able to rip holes into other realities, they took zero opportunities to use this idea to enhance the "same old" gameplay.. that same old bioshock formula, which is just a slightly watered down SS2 formula.

We saw in a early videos that Elizabeth could bring in trains or floods from another world, but they ended up throwing away all of that and bringing in... a slight hole into a another world where you see a static picture and hear somebody talking.
Yeah... using holes into other dimensions as a fucking audio tape. Thats the best they could give us??

Goliath100:
I want direct examples!! For all the alleged criticism of Bioshock and The Last of Us.

I'm the kind of person who might throw the term Ludonarrative Dissonance at Bioshock. Though that's more because the narrative is built around Booker feeling very guilty about what he did to native Americans, yet the gameplay involves you (and the protagonist) not giving a shit about burning the flesh off of cops and jamming their faces into spinning gears. That is an undeniable gameplay/story contradiction.

I also had a problem with the violence, though not for the reason of Ludonarrative dissonance. I disliked the violence because it was so gratuitous, OTT and prominent that it felt like it was undermining what was supposed to be a smarter, more sober story. It's not that there was violence at all, so much that the violence is leaps and bounds beyond what was necessary to be entertaining. It's like if in The Godfather, instead of shooting two gangsters in a cafe, Michael Corleone gradually fed them into a sausage machine, and we got to see every step of the mincing process, and it took up 90% of the movie. It just feels a tad tiresome and childish - that the game would have been better if it just showed a basic bit of restraint, and that perhaps an over the top FPS isn't the most conducive way to portray a story that wants to sell itself on blending introspective, human stories with outlandish and cartoony people and locales.

SO that's my fancy pants argument in a nutshell. The gameplay and story elements are contradictory, but more importantly, they aren't the most complementary ingredients in creating a cool, fun and interesting game.

MuffinMan74:

That's bizarre. Sometimes excessive violence really helps a story. I like Reservoir Dogs but the movie would IMO be unquestionably worse without a certain very violent scene in it. Why?

I think there is a difference between your Reservoir Dogs example, and most violent videogames. In a movie like that, though the violence is extreme, it is also short and infrequent. There is probably only about ten minutes worth of violent action in the entire run time of RD. In a game though, violence is constant, to the point where it gets kind of numbing after a while. There must be about five hours worth of gunfire, gouging and screaming in Bioshock Infinite. By keeping it sparing and severe, movies can maximize the emotional effect. By over-saturating the audience with violence, a game reduces the effectiveness of what is supposed to be the more shockingly violent scenes.

maninahat:

MuffinMan74:

That's bizarre. Sometimes excessive violence really helps a story. I like Reservoir Dogs but the movie would IMO be unquestionably worse without a certain very violent scene in it. Why?

I think there is a difference between your Reservoir Dogs example, and most violent videogames. In a movie like that, though the violence is extreme, it is also short and infrequent. There is probably only about ten minutes worth of violent action in the entire run time of RD. In a game though, violence is constant, to the point where it gets kind of numbing after a while. There must be about five hours worth of gunfire, gouging and screaming in Bioshock Infinite. By keeping it sparing and severe, movies can maximize the emotional effect. By over-saturating the audience with violence, a game reduces the effectiveness of what is supposed to be the more shockingly violent scenes.

To be fair to reservoir dogs, for 90% of the movie there's a guy on screen who's been shot and is bleeding quit a bit amidst his constant agony.

Also in the interest of fairness Infinite is probably several times longer than Reservoir Dogs

maninahat:

I'm the kind of person who might throw the term Ludonarrative Dissonance at Bioshock. Though that's more because the narrative is built around Booker feeling very guilty about what he did to native Americans, yet the gameplay involves you (and the protagonist) not giving a shit about burning the flesh off of cops and jamming their faces into spinning gears. That is an undeniable gameplay/story contradiction.

What I got was that Booker had been extremely guilty over what he did during the war, only he's done and gone through so much shit afterwards that he's grown actively apathetic towards it.
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