Zero Punctuation: Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs

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OK, two things wrong with the text 'neath the video: It lists his Extra Punctuation column from last week as being the latest one instead of yesterday's, and it neglects to mention that the game is also available on Linux. And while we're at it, can we have "PC" replaced with "Windows", preferably on every video where it's relevant but at least this one?

Not sure what was funnier, Yahtzee shitting a hole in his computer chair or the phrase "Pull my twat out through my nose" It is now my mission in life to say that in a conversation not about Zero Punctuation and to make it make sense.

I still have to play amnesia the dark decent, I bought it but I still haven't played it because of reasons that have nothing to do with me being scared.

Evonisia:
Well that opinion seems to be the minority, after the game came out all I heard was stuff like it's terrible, lacks pacing and it doesn't live up to the original Amnesia.

I might end up playing it eventually but have no motivation for it, for now I will stick with Amnesia: The Double D.

Oh it is very much play worthy experience. I recommend it - if just to see some grand visuals and atmosphere.
But yeah... There is less of it, also - you don't get threaten by pigmen that often. I "fought" a "boss" without knowing it (If you can call that thing something of a boss, more of a moving obstacle that goes away after certain actions)

Like.... It is a Chinese Room game... And that should tell you enough.

Why am I disappointed there were no Deliverance jokes about butt sex and squeeling?

Vicioussama:
You liked this atrocious piece of garbage, Yahtzee? lol. Well to each their own, but TheChineseRoom can serious gtfo of the game industry considering it has never made a real game. Just interactive stories. Yes, there is a difference.

AngryBritishAce:
I admit this game doesn't hold a candle to The Dark Decent, but why this game gets so much hate mystifies me. I loved it, and yes, it wasn't "gamey" or as scary as the predecessor, but I felt that it was at least a good game by itself, at most a worthy enough sequel. And I'm gonna be honest, I preferred the Machine to the dark corridors of Brennenburg Castle; as Yahtzee said, the whole machine did feel like this groaning monster itself.

Here's the thing, it's not a game. Nor was Dear Esther.

It's a computer program, it's interactive, it uses animated picture (aka video) and sound as a feedback, you have to press a certain pattern of buttons in the right order to make progress and get to the end, so yeah I really don't see why it shouldn't be categorized as being a game. Besides whatever you call it the experience has to be judged on its own merits, not out of some expectations for what a game should be, or how scary it should be, or how it should be exaclty the same thing than the dark descent.
I really don't get all the hate for this game and really agree whith yathzee that despites its flaws it's still way above average of most of what's coming out of the "gaming industry" today (well maybe he didn't exactly say that).

AngryBritishAce:
I admit this game doesn't hold a candle to The Dark Decent, but why this game gets so much hate mystifies me. I loved it, and yes, it wasn't "gamey" or as scary as the predecessor, but I felt that it was at least a good game by itself, at most a worthy enough sequel. And I'm gonna be honest, I preferred the Machine to the dark corridors of Brennenburg Castle; as Yahtzee said, the whole machine did feel like this groaning monster itself.

The game gets so much hate because of Dear Esther, which, for an extremely vocal minority, seems to be the worst thing to have evar happened to gaming. Or to "not game"ing. I can understand not liking this or Dear Esther, but the hate is a bit weird. It's weird when mediochre reviews are met with commenters acting like it was Christmas morning because the evil chineseroom had finally had it's comeuppance or something.

Like, where does this come from:

Vicioussama:
You liked this atrocious piece of garbage, Yahtzee? lol. Well to each their own, but TheChineseRoom can serious gtfo of the game industry considering it has never made a real game. Just interactive stories. Yes, there is a difference.

There are no reviews calling this an atrocious piece of garbage. There is no review claiming that there is no gameplay. I don't get it. Would it suddenly be great if the camera shakes when a monster sees you? Suddenly there's "gameplay" because you have to load a previous save? There's no inventory, but there are puzzles. Are those not gameplay if they aren't hard enough?

I think one of the things that bears mentioning is just how incredible the voice-acting work is in comparison to the first one. Granted, pretty much anything would be a step up, but the VA for "The Engineer" puts a LOT of emotion behind his performance. Case-in-point, the last two bits of soundtrack: SPOILERS AHOY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTQ3lZPOJ7Y

"Horror"
"Dead Space 3"

One of these days, you're gonna have to pick one, Yahtzee, my man.

There's more comments about people requesting Gta than the actual Requests. Seriously, Some Escapist members really need to tone down the Hipsteria

So... I'm glad he didn't review Gta V this week, that means he isn't rushing it (which is good).

OT: not getting near this game with a 10 foot (feet?) poll, or any horror game for that matter due to that Terrific but Terrifying game, Tomb Raider.

ImBigBob:
I tried the first Amnesia and couldn't get into it. Trying to solve a puzzle when it's really dark and you're running out of lantern oil and you can't find the right door to enter isn't scary, it's just frustrating. All the tension gets sucked out when you're just running around in circles going "ugh, where's the next room? I'm lost." A little of that is okay, but when I used up all my oil trying to find the exit, I just gave up. So I'm glad they ripped out the sanity meter for this one.

Lack of inventory has gotta be annoying, though.

When Yahtzee brought up the lack of inventory, having to lug puzzle pieces and McGuffins back and forth between rooms, I'm surprised he didn't call it out as padding the game time.
"Pigs = people", yeah, I haven't heard that one before [cough]ANIMAL FARM[/cough]. Seeing all those pigs used in that context made me think of Nine Inch Nails, what with some of their videos having pig heads in them.

Not sure if he liked or hated the game, but he did make it sound hilarious (and scary).

Machine was a grand disappointment, honestly. If I hadn't gotten stuck at one part I would have cleared it within something like 4-6 hours and the plot lost me more times than the original did.

Extremely inferior to Descent.

ironballs16:
I think one of the things that bears mentioning is just how incredible the voice-acting work is in comparison to the first one. Granted, pretty much anything would be a step up, but the VA for "The Engineer" puts a LOT of emotion behind his performance. Case-in-point, the last two bits of soundtrack: SPOILERS AHOY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTQ3lZPOJ7Y

I must admit those final speeches were really damn good, they didn't come off as Dear-Esthery, and really did get a few emotions out of me. The thing is, because the game is so short and so easy, getting to the ending just did not have any feeling of accomplishment for me. If the entire game hadn't been dumbed down to appease the "We want games to be art, but fuck video-games" crowd then that ending would have probably lifted the game up to Silent Hill 2 types of goodness. I did not feel that I had overcome any challenge, or faced any sort of big enemy because there was no challenge at all.

Cid SilverWing:
Machine was a grand disappointment, honestly. If I hadn't gotten stuck at one part I would have cleared it within something like 4-6 hours and the plot lost me more times than the original did.

Extremely inferior to Descent.

If I hadn't got stuck at one part (namely that boiler room "puzzle") then I would have completed it in 3 hours. I even idled whilst eating my tea and my total Steam game time only came up to 5 hours.

charliesbass:
With my astounding powers of precognition, I can predict the main topic of discussion in this thread:

"WHERE'S GTA5"
"WHY AREN'T YOU REVIEWING GTA5"
"GTA PLZ"
"#BOYCOTT"

My theory is that GTA V isn't going to get reviewed next week because he didn't specifically say so in order to shut up the stupider Escapists. What I'd like to see is him steadfastly refusing to review the game because he knows everyone is just going to pile hate on him for somehow finding a flaw with this supposedly "perfect diamond of interactive entertainment."

That image of that thing with it's jaw stapled to it's kneecaps actually scared me for a second....

Breywood:
I did a double take. Harvester and Sanitarium? Man those are some old titles. Quirky, but fun.

I can't believe someone other than me and my brothers has played Sanitarium. 4 people? Shit, we should start a club.

david.lvov:
Please Yathzee, Please do a review of Lost Planet 3 and Rayman Legends. I have played them both and I loved them! Lost Planet 3 might be a shitty game, but the story was amazing! Rayman Legends is amazing on almost every point, and I understand that's it hard to make a funny review from an almost perfect game, but that's exactly why you should review it!

You seem to be new here. I recommend watching his Smash Bros. Brawl review, its comment section and the mailbag showdown episode as well. It'll give you some insight as to why you don't ask Yahtzee for reviews.

At least he commented on the lack of mechanics that actually scare you.

AngryBritishAce:
I admit this game doesn't hold a candle to The Dark Decent, but why this game gets so much hate mystifies me. I loved it, and yes, it wasn't "gamey" or as scary as the predecessor, but I felt that it was at least a good game by itself, at most a worthy enough sequel. And I'm gonna be honest, I preferred the Machine to the dark corridors of Brennenburg Castle; as Yahtzee said, the whole machine did feel like this groaning monster itself.

Vicioussama:
You liked this atrocious piece of garbage, Yahtzee? lol. Well to each their own, but TheChineseRoom can serious gtfo of the game industry considering it has never made a real game. Just interactive stories. Yes, there is a difference.

Vicioussama:

Here's the thing, it's not a game. Nor was Dear Esther.

The problem is that we are in the midsts of when a definition is changing or being more properly defined.
Do we consider visual novels games because they're interactive at the bare minimum by providing player choice? What if there are no choices? Doesn't that make it a movie?

I would not consider Gone Home, Dear Esther, The Stanley Parable, or AMFP to be games. I do not consider visual novels to be games (unless there are traditional gameplay elements added to them). I believe Vicious is right in calling them interactive stories. But that is only me.

Alternatively, in the case of games were you are intended to explore (Gone Home, or more classically, Yume Nikki), you could call it an "exploration adventure"

In Minecraft's case, you could call it a construction simulator with minor gameplay elements.

I consider them such because there is no difference from watching a playthrough of them or playing them yourself. TCR makes stories and puts in gameplay as an after thought, the gameplay never feels relevant to what the player is doing or are dumbed down mechanics from whatever game they've modded.

To me, a game requires
1. player agency OR player interactivity <- this is the point that we can all agree on

2. challenges that have solutions encouraged outside trial-and-error bruteforcing, and therefore require strategy (be it situational or consistent) <- this is where it gets tricky, the amount of interactivity versus the results is where people argue. I'm ignoring the existence of failure states because there are games where the only failure state is when the challenge is unsolved (Prince of Persia 2008, Super Wario Land 2-4)

In TDD there is consistent player agency, in AMFP the only agency (other than walking forward and pressing switches) is when you need to escape monster, and are only four major encounters with monsters (and keep in mind it's a 3-4 hour game).

Clovus:

There are no reviews calling this an atrocious piece of garbage. There is no review claiming that there is no gameplay. I don't get it.

There are many user reviews calling it garbage, I would hesitate to call it such because I can understand that at least work was put into it.

Clovus:

Would it suddenly be great if the camera shakes when a monster sees you? Suddenly there's "gameplay" because you have to load a previous save?

Cause that's not the only point that they argue, it's one element of gameplay, not the only one.

Clovus:

There's no inventory, but there are puzzles. Are those not gameplay if they aren't hard enough?

Most of the puzzles in AMFP consist of:

Put this here
or
Hit this switch

The most complex puzzle in the game is partially lifted directly from the first game with one small addition.
Compare it to tetris, except there is one correct place to put the block and you have one block. There is interactivity, but the solution is laid out for you.

But only got stuck on one the put-this-here-type "puzzle" because it was shoddily programmed.

See I loved this game! I know people say 'oh you're not in danger'...I DIDN'T KNOW THAT! Especially after the laboratory when the pigs can fade in and out of reality at will. I was killed by one in a hallway and was ten kinds of terrified to go back in that hallway when I re-spawned. But turns out the pigs come randomly, not at set intervals. And there's no hiding from them! You have to run and hope they don't eat you! In Amnesia DD you can hide in a cupboard and the in-game mechanics makes that a dead-spot where monsters can't think to look. And the Amnesia DD monsters were predictable in that they came after puzzles and then despawn if they don't see you in seconds. I missed about half the monsters because I wasn't looking in the right spot at the right time, they didn't see me and left and I was kinda' let down. In MfP, I was so terrified that a pig would just show up randomly and here's the thing, they don't leave! More often then not they killed me, and thus despawned as I had to reset the checkpoint, but if by some miracle I lived, the pigs stayed until i left the level all together. Its ten kinds of terrifying ALMOST completing a puzzle, only to realize you left the last widget in the room with the pissed off monster pigs that's still there!

Don't get me wrong, Amnesia DD was horrifying, but once you figured out the game mechanics, it lost its edge. MfP kept me on the edge of my seat because the mechanics allowed for such insecurity. I never knew when a pig might show up, and when the lights flickered, I heard a snort and didn't immediately know where the monster was...
Lets just say I need to go get a few new pairs of pants.

I wonder if Yahtzee will play Outlast. I know a lot of big name Youtubers are playing it now. The consensus seems to be that "Outlast" is better and more scary than "Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs." The mechanics of Outlast is innovative at least.

TheSniperFan:
Does this review contain any spoilers?
I haven't finished it yet.

Nothing meaningful except giving away the grand analogy of pigs = worker humans. Which you totally couldn't see coming a mile away.

On the whole it feels like it suffers from having to live up to Dark Descent. It's like how nobody cares you're pretty if you're standing next to Miss Universe.

More like AMNESIA, why was I so anticipating this pile of wankery.

Considering the disappointment I've heard from everyone I know that played the game combined with my own, I honestly feel a better title would have been Amnesia, A Blowup Doll For Porcupines.

tangoprime:
So, you liked it, and even though it was more of a Dear Esther sight seeing tour of a scary ass environment, it was still a better horror game than Dead Space 3? Sold. I'll have to give it a shot the first time it takes a price dive on steam.

At the very least my fiancé will like it, as she seems to like things that are scary enough to make her pee herself, as yahtzee seems to mention here, and she tends to not finish most 'complicated' games (the first Amnesia, or anything that requires use of a log or journal to know what you're doing, lol), so that'll be a win.

"A better horror game than Dead Space 3" is a bit of an inaccurate statement because it implies that Dead Space 3 is a horror game. It isn't. It's an action game complete with co-op and microtransactions.

Lovely Mixture:
To me, a game requires
1. player agency OR player interactivity <- this is the point that we can all agree on

2. challenges that have solutions encouraged outside trial-and-error bruteforcing, and therefore require strategy (be it situational or consistent) <- this is where it gets tricky, the amount of interactivity versus the results is where people argue. I'm ignoring the existence of failure states because there are games where the only failure state is when the challenge is unsolved (Prince of Persia 2008, Super Wario Land 2-4)

I see this as highly problematic. First, if TCR simply added a room to the game that had a gun it and you had to use that gun to shoot a pig or whatever, would it suddenly be a "game" now? Or does it have to be hard to shoot the pig? It just seems pointless to come up with a definition like that. What if they made it so that you could get past the monster sections by choosing two different methods? Now, even though the basic nature of the product hasn't really changed, it's suddenly can be graced with the distinction of being a "game"?

What does this distinction even accomplish? Do we need to have a special category for "interactive fiction" reviews? Does Steam need a separate category for "not games" now? Is the problem that someone might accidentally by one of these fake games and be mad when there's not enough "gameplay" (even though reviews are a thing that exist).

charliesbass:
With my astounding powers of precognition, I can predict the main topic of discussion in this thread:

"WHERE'S GTA5"
"WHY AREN'T YOU REVIEWING GTA5"
"GTA PLZ"
"#BOYCOTT"

Actually, I think there are more people here talking about talking about GTA 5 than actual people talking about GTA 5. I think your powers of precognition need some tweaking.

Big man, pig man, ha ha, charade you are
You well heeled big wheel, ha ha, charade you are
And when your hand is on your heart
You're nearly a good laugh
Almost a joker
With your head down in the pig bin
Saying "keep on digging"
Pig stain on your fat chin
What do you hope to find?
When you're down in the pig mine
You're nearly a laugh
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry.

Clovus:

I see this as highly problematic. First, if TCR simply added a room to the game that had a gun it and you had to use that gun to shoot a pig or whatever, would it suddenly be a "game" now? Or does it have to be hard to shoot the pig?

Picture it like this:

In a "game world"
You have a room, there are two doors.
Entering the left door gets you ending A
Entering the right door gets you ending B

Does walking to either door count as gameplay? It requires nothing more than pressing the forward button. There is nothing that player needs to think about.

So to address your question directly. It depends, does the player need to utilize the gun in a strategy? Does the gun require different mechanics? Does the player need to do anything other than press a button to proceed?

Clovus:

It just seems pointless to come up with a definition like that.

To you maybe, yes. To others, not so much.

Clovus:

What if they made it so that you could get past the monster sections by choosing two different methods? Now, even though the basic nature of the product hasn't really changed, it's suddenly can be graced with the distinction of being a "game"?

Like I said above. Choices like that aren't games, the methods you have are the game part.

Clovus:

What does this distinction even accomplish?

Different people want different things, we can both agree on that right?

If you bought a shooting game, and 99% of the game was racing. That'd be quite annoying right?

Or say you bought a racing game, and there was only 10% racing.

Distinction helps prevent confusion. People who want gameplay can be less worried about their purchases, people who want their interactive stories can buy them with ease.

Clovus:

Do we need to have a special category for "interactive fiction" reviews? Does Steam need a separate category for "not games" now?

Why not? They have categories for tool software, they've sold a movie, what does one more category hurt? Hell, they could even use their visual novel category.

Clovus:

Is the problem that someone might accidentally by one of these fake games and be mad when there's not enough "gameplay" (even though reviews are a thing that exist).

Admittedly, yes, people should be smart about their purchases. I happened to be careful with mine and did not pay out of my own wallet for AMFP because I was worried about TCR's involvement.

But whether or not a review exist someone either needs either, to buy the game to review it, or play it to classify it. To save people the trouble, couldn't they be up front with consumers?

Admittedly the original Amnesia's Steam page doesn't list what the gameplay is. But Frictional released a trailer that showed at least the hiding aspect of the game, and even a demo for those who were curious.

Why couldn't TCR have done the same? Did they just want to grab everyone who loved the original game without telling them that they had cut out almost all of the mechanics? The trailer TCR released for AMFP was incredibly vague and full of jump cuts, so it's no wonder people assumed it was going to be like the original game and not another Dear Esther.

He was far kinder to the game than I thought he'd be. I figured he was going to call it out for being as bad as Dear Esther. Ah well!

I was really looking forward to playing Amnesia: The Dark Descent: Industrial Pig monster edition. I think The Chinese Room might have misunderstood what made the first Amnesia so scary. I am still going to play it, mostly because of the setting, which I find quite intruiging.

DVS BSTrD:
Amnesia Horror games hate children like Disney hates parents.

well, you could make the connection that both have developed a skill to ham fist their ideals and distinctive marks as much as physically possible into their merchandises...

Kargathia:

TheSniperFan:
Does this review contain any spoilers?
I haven't finished it yet.

Nothing meaningful except giving away the grand analogy of pigs = worker humans. Which you totally couldn't see coming a mile away.

On the whole it feels like it suffers from having to live up to Dark Descent. It's like how nobody cares you're pretty if you're standing next to Miss Universe.

to be fair, it wasnt even made by the people who made "miss universe" to begin with

Amnesia: The Dark Descent - developed by Frictional Games (duh? The Dark Descent); publisher Frictional Games

Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs - developed by The Chinese Room (Dear Esther); publisher Frictional Games

TheKrigeron:
There's more comments about people requesting Gta than the actual Requests. Seriously, Some Escapist members really need to tone down the Hipsteria

So... I'm glad he didn't review Gta V this week, that means he isn't rushing it (which is good).

OT: not getting near this game with a 10 foot (feet?) poll, or any horror game for that matter due to that Terrific but Terrifying game, Tomb Raider.

Tomb raider was scary? :L

Well, when in doubt, there are still plenty of custom stories for the original Amnesia.

I'm surprised he liked it despite its lack of horror

Chaosritter:
Well, when in doubt, there are still plenty of custom stories for the original Amnesia.

youtube

Is there nowhere I can go to avoid that guy?? I clicked on part of an Outlast playthrough, making sure not to select THAT guy, but he's swarming my reccomendations no matter what.

Nurb:
Is there nowhere I can go to avoid that guy?? I clicked on part of an Outlast playthrough, making sure not to select THAT guy, but he's swarming my reccomendations no matter what.

Haven't seen anything from him besides that Amnesia walkthrough. Should I know about him?

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