Jimquisition: Vertigo

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I think it's worth putting out there that female characters catapulted to heroism by tragedy shouldn't be discounted. Plenty of male character only have their story begin after experiencing an initial trauma; it's just a very prototypical way for a heroic character to get their start. The real issue here are stories where female protagonists are just treated as though they're a victim of circumstances throughout an entire game, and never really drive their own story forward.

Ukomba:
Hmm, well here's a list of characters I think meet that criteria:

Amazon in Dragon's Crown.
Lucca from Chrono Trigger.
Okami from Okami.
Peacock from skull girls.
Double from skull girls.
Macha from Chrono Cross.
NeoFio from Chrono Cross.
Poshul from Chrono Cross.
Sprigg from Chrono Cross.
Shale from Dragon Age.
Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic 2.

That's just what I could come up with off the top of my head from games I've played.

I think Jim was referring to characters that you can actually play as the main character and not something like a party member.

SonOfVoorhees:
Still dont get why this is a "game" issue. Look at modelling, advertising, movies etc The whole size 0 thing. Even woman believe this crap when a mens mag showing woman in bikinis are given top shelf and black bagged, yet normal woman mags still have those photo shopped models with perfect looks etc.

I guess there is only one thing you can get out of this. Men dont care about age or looks. Grizzled or muscly or thin - men dont care. Men like sexy woman. Woman like strong sexy men. Same reason will woman play a game staring a 80 year old male? Its a non issue in my book. Make a compelling fun game where the character is a 60 year old woman, then i will play it. But also find me a woman that would play as a 60 year old and not a sexy 20 year old.

Maybe the issue is woman have been brainwashed by advertising to look young and sexy. By make up, music videos, adverts and models etc Not saying its right or wrong. Just thats how it is.

What do woman on escapist think?

Isn't the prevalence of these ideas across culture the whole point of the "patriarchal society" argument? I mean, you've just rehashed the basic points of it; especially that women actively participate too.

Anyway, it's not entirely true. You can find ugly, villainous, weird woman with interesting motivations on TV and in movies. They certainly aren't anywhere near the majority, but they're definitely not as conspicuously absent as they are in video games.

This is a societal norm. The same is generally true for all areas of media and have been for millenia. Men also have to generally be attractive in media as well but it is certainly true that older men are more "permisseable" than older females. But if this is a societal standard, hard coded into human kind for all this time, why call out the gaming industry by itself (aside from you being a gaming reviewer which makes it your job to call it out)? Should gaming be held to a higher standard that movies, painted art, literature, and the like? I'm not saying it shouldn't, perhaps the act of interaction and ownership of the avatar does carry with it more weight.

However, you're criteria also disregarded several legitimate candidates. A female character can be pretty without being sexualized, it is wrong to throw out a character just because they aren't horribly scarred (kinda like a certain professional that fired a female employee because she was "too pretty"). I also find it unwarranted to throw out customizeable characters which are generally a direct response for female gamers. I'm not sure why you didn't use characters like Princess Peach in Mario Party and such unless you're talking about the character as a whole. How about that pink square from Thomas was Alone? Hah. We barely even knew what Chell looks like thanks to lesser graphics until recently. I assume you're talking about playable females and not just female characters in general. Otherwise I have quite a few (such as Ellie of Borderlands 2 fame, for example)

As I've said elsewhere. According to the 2010 ESA results, 40/60 (female/male) was the gamer ratio. In that year, we also learned that 80% of women who owned consoles had a Wii as their primary. 9% ps3, 11% 360. The current ESA 47%/53% was after including mobile gamers and over 50% of the respondants in that survey weren't planning to purchase even one game that year. We also have no reason to suspect the distribution has changed since then.

That means that AAA developers are looking at a console target market that is more than 80% males thanks to the underpowered wii consoles. So if you're going to create a stable, non-customiseable character then it suits you as a development studio to make a male character or a female character that appeals to males. Customizeability gets around that without alienating their largest market segment. But at an 80%+ male market you'd almost be demanding that a lady's stocking company make their crotch area more roomy for the X% of males that use the product even if it makes the females slightly less comfortable.

Either way, i couldn't care less what my avatar looks like. Could be an 80 year old woman in a clown costume as long as the story is compelling.

What comes first, the women who play games or the attempts to design games with them in mind? :P

Not G. Ivingname:
Vertigo is really only the protagonist in a fighting game sense. She has her own story, but so does everyone else you can play. If we are saying that is a protagonist, we can extend this to a few, if only a few, other women in gaming.

Broodmother from DOTA (and 2), who is a giant spider (thus not attractive in the slightest, besides to Keeper of the Light) who is really annoyed with all the people who keep coming from the surface and killing her young, fighting for their survival, not hers. She is really morally grey, since she cares more about her own spiders rather than any other humans.

Peacock and Double from Skullgirls: The former is a mutilated child, once a slave who was beaten, tortured and blinded (we get to see that happen from her. This caused her to go absolutely insane. She was rebuilt (it's implied the only bits of her that are not robotic are her brain and her face) by a man named Dr. Avian, to help hunt down the "Skull Girl" and end that threat once and for all. However, she does not do it for Dr. Avian, not pushed by the hardship she has suffered. She does it because he insanity, plus her augments, have turned her into a minor reality warper that looks and acts like a murderous cartoon. She does it (at first) because she really likes fighting, and later, to save her best friend who had been turned into the Skullgirl.

Special note goes to Painwheel, who has mostly the same motivations as the former, and a lot of the messed up designs for the later, but was "doing it for a man," strictly speaking. I wasn't sure if mind control counted, but I am going to just play it safe here.

Skullgirls is definitely a great example, and look at it well. Skullgirls was canceled halfway through development even though it had a strong push to come out from the hardcore fighting game community. When it finally came out they only had the budget to release what they had, which ended up being 8 characters. When kickstarted, it didn't have ANY trouble getting the money to keep development going so that we could finally get more characters, and they were happy to give said characters freely.

It's also an indie game, and there are a lot of those that break conventions. It doesn't put down that they are doing it, but it's sad that no big developer can take a minute to look at what is popular there and try to work it in. We are getting more homogenized crap all the time, which is the main issue. No one is saying that their aren't interesting and well loved female characters, just that their appearance and look is one of the most homogenized things in gaming today.

hentropy:

Ukomba:
Hmm, well here's a list of characters I think meet that criteria:

Amazon in Dragon's Crown.
Lucca from Chrono Trigger.
Okami from Okami.
Peacock from skull girls.
Double from skull girls.
Macha from Chrono Cross.
NeoFio from Chrono Cross.
Poshul from Chrono Cross.
Sprigg from Chrono Cross.
Shale from Dragon Age.
Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic 2.
Bombette from Paper Mario.
Lady Bow from Paper Mario.
Watt from Paper Mario.
Sushie from Paper Mario.
Goombella from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Flurrie from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Vivian from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Ms. Mowz from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

That's just what I could come up with off the top of my head from games I've played.

I think Jim was referring to characters that you can actually play as the main character and not something like a party member.

and I think Jim never specified that in his list of requirements, so it goes for any female main character. He talked about non-playable teammates in his video.

Pat Hulse:

Monxeroth:

erttheking:

Look you can split hairs as much as you want, but it's pretty hard to deny that a massive majority of female characters are designed with the intention of people trying to make them look good in mind. And a good looking character isn't a bad thing, a lot of people really like Mitsuru from Persona 3 and she's hardly lacking, but good looking for female is become ing what "White, brown haired thirty something" is for male. There is nothing wrong with a character like that but the sheer number of them is ridiculous and something ELSE would be nice.

Truth=/=Urgency

While its debatably somewhat true, the impact it has or the urgency of said subject isnt objectively problematic in itself, because again i must ask the question in that case: Does the opposite matter/not matter, and if so, why/why not?

I havent denied anything but neither am i so gullible to simply accept a black and white scenario without contrast.
First of all the fallacy that appearently then according to most arguments vs this, is well, we get a "non-traditionally attractive female protagonist" and then to break it down first of all. Well what constitutes one ideal over another, as you must be aware both male and female gamers find some "non-traditionally attractive males" to be appealing in games. The other problem comes with ambiguous genders and well, if it is a female but we cant tell, is it a female? If a tree falls in the forest without anyone around to hear it does it still make a noise, basically?
Then the third question of course becomes, protagonist, according to me? you? what about anti-heroes then or npcs or other characters in a game that have equal amount of impact on the game as you the player does?

Your question regarding "urgency" of this kind of representation discrepancy drudges up the dreaded Tumblr-abuse word of "privilege". Because you and I do not lack for representation in our favorite form of media, we cannot empathize with someone who has no high-profile representation in said medium. So the urgency of this sort of discrepancy may seem trivial to us, but as there are so many gamers clamoring for this sort of representation in games, one would assume they find it rather urgent.

To put it another way, your question seems to be "Yes, there probably is a discrepancy regarding the prominence of non-traditionally-attractive female protagonists in games vs. the male equivalent, but is that a serious problem?" Well, my feelings on the issue are that if a lot of people have a problem with it, their complaints seem reasonable, and changing things would require very little sacrifice from a practical or social perspective and our community stands to gain from it, I think whether or not it is "urgent" is a moot point. Rather, I think the more "urgent" matter is that people within our community seem hard-wired to resist this sort of observation and criticism as though it potentially threatens something.

It's really no different from when a person complains about how shooters are too generic or how single-player experiences are diminished to favor tacked-on multiplayer experiences. We complain about aspects of the industry that we don't like, hoping that they will change and improve our overall experience. That's exactly what those arguing for equal representation are doing. They dislike something in the industry, so they're pointing it out and complaining about it so it can change and improve their enjoyment of it. And unless someone thinks those changes will lessen their enjoyment of it, then I don't really understand why people bother to take it so personally as if they are accused of being called sexist just for enjoying video games.

Yeah but thats all subjective however and up to me or you to decide not one collective, since that pretty much voids all form of individuality which is yknow, fucking terrible. Once more, its not really urgent and may not even be all that important, trivial at best but hey, if creators come along with creations of said things to counter that then hooray for them *golfclaps* but it wont be the end of the world if they dont.
Then again i would like games to be appriciated for games and not for other things like how the controller looks or if my protagonist happens to be a nontraditionally attractive female or not, and if does come to that, then i would like the game to actually be praised and reviewed on the basis of it BEING A GAME, but appearently thats too much to ask from some people i guess :L

Well a lot of religious fundamentalists also have problems with todays world yet we can hopefully all agree that theyre far from reasonable, as is the case with this debate that, while perhaps a vocal but very stupid part of the debate, argues for one thing, doesnt by default make it valid or reasonable based simply on numbers, but rather how well their arguments hold up against their counterarguments, which they dont, not all that much exactly anyway...

Eh, i guess some people do but theyre usually stupid, i may not like what you like but i wont hate you for liking what i dont like, if that makes any sense, since i objectively cant tell you: what you enjoy is shit. because yknow, enjoyment is subjective and all that

Monxeroth:

Tombsite:
Snip

Of course because its such a rational and constructive way to debate to simply call out strawmen left and right because you simply do not have the tools to logically counter any of them *pats your head*

1. It does but only if the developer intended for that obviously, hence why i think its so strange we discard MMOs and Saints Row for some reason because it, oh i dunno, counters this point?
2.More options=/=Good Would tetris be anymore enjoyable if we put a little skirt on the L-block?
3.That is a point but again youre failing to see the bigger picture of: It suits the game, its consistent with the gameplay and its also something that makes sense, if you can do that with female protagonists then sure go right ahead, so far i havent seen much prodoctivity from your type of people, only complaining, and no action whatsoever except crying social justice on tumblr.
4.Its in fact a very high risk, and not chance, that it will matter, since its completely trivial, again, the whole look of something vs its practical use.
Steam controller looks shit
Steam controller is therefore shit
I like to play using the controller and look at the monitor rather than on the controller but ok

Bringing in the look of a piece of hardware is in fact a straw-man. but lets not get bogged down in semantics.

1. Because Jim chose that it had to be a developer designed character. Because that would mean that the artist behind the game envisioned a certain character and not just a blank slate for the player to do what ever with. As this is about calling the developers out it is a very relevant that we discard them.

2. Putting a skirt on the L-block is a choice. An option is something you can chose not to use thus an option can never be bad. Again, in fairness, I'll give you that it is possible that all the added options do not increase the amount of good. But this is the exception most of the time. The point still remains that it is most likely that more options means better end results.

3. (Your poor use of structure makes your argument unclear but I will try.) Again Jim is not arguing against using attractive people. He is providing proof that apparently women can only be attractive. Why does it make more sense that all females in fighting games are skinny models and not one of them is a densely build fighter with a broken nose?

4. Yes looks do take a back seat to functionality but that does not make them irrelevant. Of course the game has to be good and function. But that is not something that has anything to do with the character design. As it takes the same graphics to make an "ugly" woman as it does to make an attractive woman,I do not see how this is an issue.

Tombsite:

Arfreid:
Hmmm how about Xel'lotath from Eternal Darkness... then again... 'she' and Vertigo have too much in common.

http://eternaldarkness.wikia.com/wiki/Xel%27lotath

She is not player controlled.

Then of course doesnt count because we have to think very very very narrowmindedly here and exclude all types of characters except for the playable ones
ok sure that seems reasonable
sorry i mustve mistyped that, the word i believe was stupid, or something along those lines anyway

Daystar Clarion:

Mcoffey:

Daystar Clarion:

I like to think that The Boss and Ammy fall into this category.

Have you seen The Boss? She's built like a fucking horse, and Ammy is...

Well she's Ammy!

The Boss isn't a playable character nor a protagonist. She's a great character, to be sure, but not quite what Jim's talking about. I've got nothing on Amaterasu though. :)

In this thread I expect plenty of people to say that plenty of male characters are sexualized, completely ignoring the fact that they are male empowerment fantasies (ie, something to aspire to, rather than something to desire), where few-to-no female characters are female empowerment fantasies.

Well, I suppose she doesn't count if she's not playable...

Damn it!

Ammy, save me!

*falls back on Ammy point*

Along with one requirement being that the character has to be playable, I believe another one of the requirements was that the character in question has to be bad, or at least morally questionable. :P

Tombsite:

Monxeroth:

Tombsite:
Snip

Of course because its such a rational and constructive way to debate to simply call out strawmen left and right because you simply do not have the tools to logically counter any of them *pats your head*

1. It does but only if the developer intended for that obviously, hence why i think its so strange we discard MMOs and Saints Row for some reason because it, oh i dunno, counters this point?
2.More options=/=Good Would tetris be anymore enjoyable if we put a little skirt on the L-block?
3.That is a point but again youre failing to see the bigger picture of: It suits the game, its consistent with the gameplay and its also something that makes sense, if you can do that with female protagonists then sure go right ahead, so far i havent seen much prodoctivity from your type of people, only complaining, and no action whatsoever except crying social justice on tumblr.
4.Its in fact a very high risk, and not chance, that it will matter, since its completely trivial, again, the whole look of something vs its practical use.
Steam controller looks shit
Steam controller is therefore shit
I like to play using the controller and look at the monitor rather than on the controller but ok

Bringing in the look of a piece of hardware is in fact a straw-man. but lets not get bogged down in semantics.

1. Because Jim chose that it had to be a developer designed character. Because that would mean that the artist behind the game envisioned a certain character and not just a blank slate for the player to do what ever with. As this is about calling the developers out it is a very relevant that we discard them.

2. Putting a skirt on the L-block is a choice. An option is something you can chose not to use thus an option can never be bad. Again, in fairness, I'll give you that it is possible that all the added options do not increase the amount of good. But this is the exception most of the time. The point still remains that it is most likely that more options means better end results.

3. (Your poor use of structure makes your argument unclear but I will try.) Again Jim is not arguing against using attractive people. He is providing proof that apparently women can only be attractive. Why does it make more sense that all females in fighting games are skinny models and not one of them is a densely build fighter with a broken nose?

4. Yes looks do take a back seat to functionality but that does not make them irrelevant. Of course the game has to be good and function. But that is not something that has anything to do with the character design. As it takes the same graphics to make an "ugly" woman as it does to make an attractive woman,I do not see how this is an issue.

4.Then why even bring it up as an issue if even you will argue that it isnt, goddamn, the contradictions are strong with this one /facedesk

Right then

Good luck in future posts and have a wonderful day

DTWolfwood:
What about Lizzie from Rampage?

Updates aside, Rampage predates Vertigo by 8 years.* Jim was looking up the most recent example.

DVS BSTrD:
I'd say her origin (Past trauma) and true human form rule her out.

Also this.

*Rampage came out in 1986. Primal Rage came out in 1994.

What a crap.
---I---
1) SC1 Kerrigan after going Zerg.
2) Fucking Chun Li, who is DEFINITELY far from general sex-appeal damsel state.
3) American McGee's Alice. Yeah, that sexy bod of hers, ya all recall?
4) Faith from Mirror's Edge, who can be considered attractive by some, but faaaar from being sexy doll
5) Kate Walker, someone? There were a lot of people going into onanistic rage because of that chick?
6) And that "artistic crap" - The Path, mmm?
7) And Chell from Portal? Again, she can be considered attractive at best and the only man in her life was Companion Cube.
8) Isabelle and Frida from HOMMV.
9) Urban Chaos, anyone?
10) Giants: Citizen Kabuto. Episode 3, OK?
11) Thomas Was Alone? Square girls, anyone? LOTS of 'em!
12) Major Parker from Ground Control? One hell of damsel in distress!
13) Karan S'Jet from Homeworld? remember her? She's the protagonist in part one!
14) That girl from Keepsake? She's not a masterpiece character - I don't even remember her name - but she was NOT an eyecandy.
15) Other example - Ariah from Earth 2160.
And it's just a quick pick from my memory, where only PC games are! Just! Fucking! Dig!
---II---
Stop! This! Nonsensical! Bullshit! There are STATISTICS. AAA titles are played by male audience! Change fucking player demographics and you'll see your fucking changes! Supply reacts to a fucking demand, not vice versa!

I loved that game as a kid. But since I couldn't understand English I decided the raptor I always played was a girl. As was the red farting monkey. She and the red ape were a brother and sister in my made-up story for the game.

But, yeah, even as a kid I liked characters who had some history behind them, who had seen things and gone through shit. Or nerdy scietists. And guess how many female characters like that I found?

Metalix Knightmare:
Just wanted to add this, Anita would hate this revelation a bit more than you Jim. She hates seeing women used as villian characters.

Source?

(And why should we care what Anita thinks? However, since people keep claiming she said all kinds of stuff she never did, source would be nice.)

Monxeroth:

Rationality can be found behind the door to your left.
Good luck in future posts and have a wonderful day

If you really were being sarcastic then why the claim that I'm being irrational?

First thing i thought of was Angelica from "Rugrats- Totally Angelica" a greedy, narcissistic girl who seeks only to gather more stuff for herself so she can be in a fashion show to make herself famous.......

In another game Angelica enslaved the other babies to perform in her own circus too, but i forget if she was playable...

Now here's the issue. One: vertigo probably looks damn hot to reptiles, lizardmen and peopel with bizarre fetishes. Secondly, The problem with women in games is what I like to call the 'Vasquez Syndrome'. Namely, human logic basically follows a pigeon-hole sorting. Once a woman or male drifts far enough away from the expectations of their gender and towards the expectations of the opposite gender...we simply start thinking of them in terms of the gender they match the template for. The character must be demonstrably female. Just like how a gay character must be demonstrably gay or a black character must be demonstrably black (which apparently means angry).

hentropy:
Recette from Recettear is a pretty damn good female character in my estimation, as well as the female protags from other Carpe Fulgar games. Not exactly mainstream, though, I suppose, even if Recettear has quite the reach now.

Hmmm, generically cute anime girl who seems to be a child (or very, very short, going by google image search), not sure if that counts.

Monxeroth:

Tombsite:

Monxeroth:

Of course because its such a rational and constructive way to debate to simply call out strawmen left and right because you simply do not have the tools to logically counter any of them *pats your head*

1. It does but only if the developer intended for that obviously, hence why i think its so strange we discard MMOs and Saints Row for some reason because it, oh i dunno, counters this point?
2.More options=/=Good Would tetris be anymore enjoyable if we put a little skirt on the L-block?
3.That is a point but again youre failing to see the bigger picture of: It suits the game, its consistent with the gameplay and its also something that makes sense, if you can do that with female protagonists then sure go right ahead, so far i havent seen much prodoctivity from your type of people, only complaining, and no action whatsoever except crying social justice on tumblr.
4.Its in fact a very high risk, and not chance, that it will matter, since its completely trivial, again, the whole look of something vs its practical use.
Steam controller looks shit
Steam controller is therefore shit
I like to play using the controller and look at the monitor rather than on the controller but ok

Bringing in the look of a piece of hardware is in fact a straw-man. but lets not get bogged down in semantics.

1. Because Jim chose that it had to be a developer designed character. Because that would mean that the artist behind the game envisioned a certain character and not just a blank slate for the player to do what ever with. As this is about calling the developers out it is a very relevant that we discard them.

2. Putting a skirt on the L-block is a choice. An option is something you can chose not to use thus an option can never be bad. Again, in fairness, I'll give you that it is possible that all the added options do not increase the amount of good. But this is the exception most of the time. The point still remains that it is most likely that more options means better end results.

3. (Your poor use of structure makes your argument unclear but I will try.) Again Jim is not arguing against using attractive people. He is providing proof that apparently women can only be attractive. Why does it make more sense that all females in fighting games are skinny models and not one of them is a densely build fighter with a broken nose?

4. Yes looks do take a back seat to functionality but that does not make them irrelevant. Of course the game has to be good and function. But that is not something that has anything to do with the character design. As it takes the same graphics to make an "ugly" woman as it does to make an attractive woman,I do not see how this is an issue.

4.Then why even bring it up as an issue if even you will argue that it isnt, goddamn, the contradictions are strong with this one /facedesk

Right then

Good luck in future posts and have a wonderful day

I am pretty sure I did not bring it up, and rebuking it does not really mean it stops being a straw-man. Also you forgot rebuke any of the real point. Seeing as they are facedek worthy I assume you can do this with ease?

New Dante is attractive?

DAT ASS

image

-id

OT: While not a playable character, I think Kormir from Guild Wars: Nightfall might fit most other (if not all) of your requirements. I know, it's a stretch, and yes, we should definitely see more well-written female protagonists, but at least it's something...right?
This probably falls back onto "more female writer/developers", which Arenanet has a few of in leading roles. I'm banking on 5-10 more years before more interesting women join the videogame parade.

And then another 20 for non-caucasians...

Zombine3D:
Fuck your PC bullshit. Annoying as fuck, it's like MovieBob praising Antita Scamiisian.

Why even post if you hold such ancient views? What is your problem?

Monxeroth:

Tombsite:

Arfreid:
Hmmm how about Xel'lotath from Eternal Darkness... then again... 'she' and Vertigo have too much in common.

http://eternaldarkness.wikia.com/wiki/Xel%27lotath

She is not player controlled.

Then of course doesnt count because we have to think very very very narrowmindedly here and exclude all types of characters except for the playable ones

Why yes, seeing as that was the entire point of his argument. The lack of no attractive female protagonistsin video games. :)

RJ 17:

Daystar Clarion:

Mcoffey:

The Boss isn't a playable character nor a protagonist. She's a great character, to be sure, but not quite what Jim's talking about. I've got nothing on Amaterasu though. :)

In this thread I expect plenty of people to say that plenty of male characters are sexualized, completely ignoring the fact that they are male empowerment fantasies (ie, something to aspire to, rather than something to desire), where few-to-no female characters are female empowerment fantasies.

Well, I suppose she doesn't count if she's not playable...

Damn it!

Ammy, save me!

*falls back on Ammy point*

Along with one requirement being that the character has to be playable, I believe another one of the requirements was that the character in question has to be bad, or at least morally questionable. :P

Ammy can be morally questionable!

Just look how unimpressed she is at the end of Mr Orange's dance!

how you not love his sick moves ammy, you monster!


She's the leader of a squad that're protecting people or cities or something (I don't actually know), but that means she's both not doing it for a man, because she's the one in charge, but also not doing it just to be heroic, because it's her job.
I don't know if she'd count as too attractive, but I think her scars and kinda grey complexion mover her towards the Gears of War grizzled end of the scale.
But then I don't know if she doesn't count because she doesn't have enough backstory.

Man, these credentials are pretty tough to fill. Wouldn't it be kinda hard to find a man that fits the reverse? Say, a stereotypically attractive guy that's working for his own motivation that has nothing to do with a woman? I know there'd be more of these than there are women that Jim was talking about, but it's still an awfully specific list.

Oh, I just thought.


Or is it cheating to pick someone that most people think is a boy until they've been playing the game for a while?

I'd like to use this point to point out Tomoko Kuroki from Watamote. That's right people, females video games have gotten so bad even anime now has better female leads...

Vicioussama:
Curious what you think about Maddox' take on women in games

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sexism_videogames

Kinda agree with his.

I have to agree with his logic more than what most of Jim has been saying. Granted, some of the points Jim has made, such as Elizabeth being removed from the box cover of Bioshock Infinite because she was a female is total BS, but Maddox makes some good points. And I hate agreeing with Maddox because even though he's funny, he's kind of a dick.

Ukomba:
Hmm, well here's a list of characters I think meet that criteria:

Amazon in Dragon's Crown.
Lucca from Chrono Trigger.
Okami from Okami.
Peacock from skull girls.
Double from skull girls.
Macha from Chrono Cross.
NeoFio from Chrono Cross.
Poshul from Chrono Cross.
Sprigg from Chrono Cross.
Shale from Dragon Age.
Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic 2.

That's just what I could come up with off the top of my head from games I've played.

Amazon - Sexualized, impractical outfit. While not "traditionally" attractive from a mainstream attraction, she definitely fits within fetishistic character design tropes popular in certain niches within Japanese entertainment. She may not be everyone's cup of tea, but trust me, she's designed for sex appeal. Plus none of the characters in that game have interesting or unique character motivations or identities, so even if you could argue that she isn't designed with sex appeal in mind, she fails to meet Jim's criteria for that reason as well (though at least the male characters in the game are equally as uninteresting and under-developed).
Lucca - A supporting character, not a protagonist. Jim was specifically looking for playable protagonists.
Okami - The character is actually named Amaterasu, but I'd say that's probably a fair example that Jim may have overlooked.
Peacock - Her motivations center around being used as a test subject, which Jim would justifiably qualify as "power from trauma".
Double - See above.
Macha/NeoFio/Poshul/Sprigg - Not protagonists.
Shale - A DLC character and not a protagonist.
Kreia - Not a protagonist.

One example I thought of that Jim may have overlooked is Kazooie from Banjo-Kazooie, who could be argued as a supporting character, but I'd argue that she's the more active participant in the duo, particular in regards to gameplay, though obviously she has less at stake in terms of plot since it's not her sister that's been kidnapped. But it does seem a bit silly that we have to keep looking at non-humanoids to find valid examples.

And it may seem like splitting hairs for discounting many of your characters for not being protagonists, but part of the issue is that women would like to be able to directly identify with the character that has the most agency and direct focus within the story. They may like to see well-crafted female supporting characters, but when it's all they have, it starts to make them feel ignored, marginalized, and underestimated. It seems like there's an underlying hesitance to make a woman the central protagonist either due to concerns regarding whether or not their young male demographic would enjoy playing as a female character they don't find attractive, as though we would be afraid of identifying with a woman. As a dude, I find that assumption pretty demeaning. I don't need to find a female character sexy to want to play as her and I don't need to play as a male character to identify with the protagonist. I think game publishers need to stop overthinking it so much.

Would broodmother count? Giant spider in Dota 2? She wants to kill all the heroes of the world to stop them trampling her baby spiders.

Ukomba:
Hmm, well here's a list of characters I think meet that criteria:

Amazon in Dragon's Crown.

I think she was designed to be attractive, considering she is supposed to be the ass to the wizard's "It's magic, I don't have to explain tits." Designed to be attractive, and actually being attractive is another matter entirely (that art style, plus the low amount of frames in the animation, makes my eyes BLEED).

Lucca from Chrono Trigger.

Possibly fits, although from what I read, it does sound like she may be doing things for Chrono or her father. Not sure, didn't play the game.

Okami from Okami.

Fits well. Although by all accounts Okami is a good looking wolf.

Peacock from skull girls.

Fits perfectly. Hooray for murderous cartoons. :D

Double from skull girls.

This may or may not count, depending on what Jim meant by "doing it for a man." Could easily be a deconstruction of this motivation, since she really, REALLY hates being mind @#$^ed into doing what Brain Drain wants.

Macha from Chrono Cross.
NeoFio from Chrono Cross.
Poshul from Chrono Cross.
Sprigg from Chrono Cross.

They may or may not count. Never played Chrono cross.

Shale from Dragon Age.

Fits. :)

Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic 2.

Man that one is ugly. XD
Fits.

Bombette from Paper Mario.
Lady Bow from Paper Mario.
Watt from Paper Mario.
Sushie from Paper Mario.
Goombella from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Flurrie from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Vivian from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Ms. Mowz from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

Most of them fit, although a few of them kind of are doing it for Mario, although the fan art seems to think otherwise. X_X

Well, let's face it, part of the problem is that we just don't have as vast a pool of female characters to pull from. I mean, you brought up some men that go against traditional standards of the male protagonist, but the fact you brought up most of the recognizable ones sort of shows that the issue here is that game characters in general just simply have a certain set of standards they have to meet: generally attractive, young, and athletic with some tragic backstory. There are exceptions, no doubt, and this hardly excuses the presentation of women in video games, but it feels like we're missing the larger issue here.

Games, simply, aren't willing to move out of a comfort zone, and very rarely do they completely challenge that comfort zone in every aspect (ex. Snake may have been old, but he seemed rather athletic and attractive for an old guy). Yes, women are at a greater disadvantage here, partially due to their underrepresentation overall, and partially due to the male dominance of the industry. However, I think we're missing the whole problem when we only talk about women and dismissing the presentation of men as if it is already fully taken care of. Yes, we need to talk about the presentation of women, but the issue presented here, that game characters aren't allowed out of a defined set of rules for physical characteristics, is far further reaching than Jim wants to admit.

The entire cast of touhou fits jims criteria, going by the horrible art the characters aren't attractive, their motivations if they have any are unique and have nothing to do with men since they don't exist in those games, their personalities makes you want to hit them with a steel pipe yes but there still personalities, and finally there in a bullet hell game so they certainly have both power and strength.

There are also certain female rulers in crusader kings 2 that fit jims criteria but those might fall under player created, they can be quite unattractive, they can have a very interesting combination of personalities traits, their motivations typically have to do with keeping and\or gaining more power, admittedly unlike male characters they can't fight as generals (unless you mod the game) but they can still take over the world and\or have very high martial skill.

Fappy:
I don't know about you guys, but Vertigo's pretty sexy. Check out dem glutes!

I know, Jim is way off the mark here.

Vertigo is where its at, dat ass, dat tail, dat tongue, hells yeah...

erm right, what were we talkin about? Oh right...-cough- Anyway I think Jim really is a little off base here, he musnt have scoured that hard as people have brought up a number of characters such as the ones from Dark Spore which are Similar to Vertigo but more modern.

Zombine3D:
Fuck your PC bullshit. Annoying as fuck, it's like MovieBob praising Antita Scamiisian.

Why is him making this video a problem for you? (I am really curious here).Also why is this the same as "MovieBob praising Anita Sarkeesian"?

This reminded me of the Bechdel Test, but made easier to pass and then failed by pretty much everyone.

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