Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Review - Episode 2: 0-8-4

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Makabriel:
Good analysis, Bob. I wholeheartedly agree on the amount of "quipping" that's going on in the show. It's just wading too deep in it and it makes it hard to take the show seriously at times..

My biggest problem with the show is that it is trying too hard at everything it does (humor, semi-family-friendly action, and scene composition (see below)) that it comes off as cheesy.

I mean, the first two episodes have scenes specifically set-up for the purpose of showcasing a forced "composition": the first episode had that weird moment where the agency's cars pull up in a row, with each one stopping so that it fills the next third of the screen from the last one; and this ep. gave us Coulson and May's choreographed gun-ballet scene, which I knew was coming a split second before it did.

I don't have a problem with these things, in general, but when it's so forced that I'm taken out of the show because of it, you're trying waaaaay too hard to be "cool."

A little bland, but I am giving it about 6 episodes to pick up. I understand how a new show needs to get it's footing, and for every successful Lost that starts off Big and then explains, you get a Flash Forward or The Event, that doesn't work. So I think going small and building up may work. The other thing, is this an 7/8pm show on ABC, which has been known to keep it's prime shows until 10 a little cleaner. So this may not get very gritty and at this point Kids could easily watch. But they need to actually have a superhero or supervillian in it soon, which next week may do it.

Last note, I find it funny how people dislike Ward for being generic, isn't he supposed to be? I see him playing perfectly to type. Though with that said, it doesn't mean he is interesting yet.

Just be fast and brutal: is this show any good? I have a high degree of distrust with super-hero tv shows, don't ask me why. Many friends of mine enjoy Arrow, still I didn't even give it a try, I'm willing to give a try to both Gotham and SHIELD because they don't focus directly on the heroes, but rather the universe, SHIELD more so, since it links with the other Marvel movies (we're not sure about that regarding Gotham, are we?)

4Aces:
Joss Whedon was only there for the pilot. Now Jebb is the Whedon in control. So do not expect this to get much attention from Joss anymore as he is pretty busy.

As for this episode, they actually identify the weakest part of the show - the kids. Then they proceed to do nothing about it. In fact, Coulson says that just giving them a common enemy is all that it would take to turn them into a team. If that weak writing is the best they can do, this is going to be another Revolution. They need to treat is like Buffy, not a slapstick CW show.

Errors that jumped off the screen and poked me in the eye
Cavalary breaks her wrist to get out of the cuffs? Not possible since the wrist is not actually the part that prevents the cuffs from coming off, it is the thumb. She also proceeds to use the wrist for the rest of the episode.

The inflatable raft plugging the jagged hole? It even has a rip in the bottom left corner, and never makes a proper seal (the edge bounces for the whole shoot).

The only Shield weapon demonstrated in this episode is the Serenity (movie) staff concussion grenade. Why is none of that kind of tech available on the jet (or any time else). Why were their no automated defenses (like stun gas). After all that is what Shield is known for.

The two Wesleys (biochem and engineering) are seriously annoying. Half their techno-babble is just that in this episode. At least for the pilot the science was well written, but in this episode - not so much.

Lobbing a tesseract (or even the energy from one) into the Sun is a colossally bad idea. Add the Gamma from the sun to the power cell and suddenly we have a solar prominence heading in the general direction of the planet, as the cell detonates. Especially when Shield already has these types of weapons (Avengers - the one Coulson used against Loki).

Finally, the hacker is flown to a class A restricted site and still has cell service that is not going through Shield routers?

I am still going to give it another few episodes to see if it can find it's post-Joss feet, but even with Joss, the pilot was mediocre. Starting to develop plot holes by episode 2 just brings back bad memories of Revolution. I really, really want to like this. So I am just writing this off as a single bad episode and waiting until next week.

Is it just me or is it obvious that Coulson was resurrected by the Asgardians (as neural cloning is far too advanced for Shield) with Tahiti being the code word for Asgard. If Shield had cloned him, then no one else can truly die (think Avengers), and that takes all the thrill out of it. Hell, if they can clone then Fury can get a new eye (or two - it never hurts to have a backup)!

Since you were paying attention better than I was... how did the 1,500 year old (it pre-dates the temple!) artifact go to being a 70 year old (WWII era German technology!) artifact then to a 5-10 year one? (made for the Peruvian government in between the time Coulson and his lady friend worked together?) That was a little strange.

4Aces:

Lobbing a tesseract (or even the energy from one) into the Sun is a colossally bad idea. Add the Gamma from the sun to the power cell and suddenly we have a solar prominence heading in the general direction of the planet, as the cell detonates. Especially when Shield already has these types of weapons (Avengers - the one Coulson used against Loki).

Finally, the hacker is flown to a class A restricted site and still has cell service that is not going through Shield routers?

While I don't have any actual proof I don't think that device is actually going to the sun. I am thinking shield has a top secret space station that it is going to instead. Shield has a flying aircraft carrier, so them also having a space base is not a far fetched idea. Potential evidence though is Fritz saying that that they could get there faster if they used some type of rocket, but they are having fun. Now to me a top secret organization intending to destroy an extremely dangerous object to make sure that it dos not fall into the wrong hands is not going to just have fun with launching said object into the sun. And Now that I am thinking about it, in the Avengers they were experimenting on the Tesseract directly, yet this device that that is only infused with a tiny bit of the energy of the Tesseract is some how so much more dangerous that it warrants being launched into the sun?

As for Skye still having access to a cell service, have you considered the possibility that maybe they let her have access on purpose, and Coulson is playing a bigger game. I think everybody has said she is a risk, and even Coulson himself admitted it to Furry. So why is Coulson insisting that she be on the team. Even Furry who has the authority to kick her out of the group and tells Coulson point blank she is a risk is leaving her on the team even though he clearly does not like it. I think it is possible that Furry's comment was based on the fact that he (and Coulson) knew that she sent that text. I think that Coulson expects her to act as a double agent , and is actually secretly using her to unknowingly lead them to the people behind the rising tide. So the risk is not that she might be a spy, as they already know she is, but the fact that Coulson believes overall she is a good person (and because of her conflicting feelings) she won't reveal the most dangerous stuff (that she will realize needs to be kept secret).

As a side not does any one know if the Anti Matter meteor crashing off the cost of Miami a reference to an actual marvel event, or was that some world building in the TV show

For me to really get into the show they are going to have to start standing on their own and not keep throwing references to what happened in the movies, the other thing is the whole connection with Rising Tide needs to be either flushed out or flushed down the drain, for I dread the installments where we are going to get "Will Skye betray her new family/team or not" moments. I really think the Miami comment from Coulson was part of his test for her for its something she doesn't know about, but she has been able to hack their databases and hide her communications from everyone else.

As far as Coulson himself, I have been thinking their isn't anything more unusual about him now then in the past, its his past that is being hidden, but of course the whole "Coulson can never know" from the first episode in some ways makes me wonder about that.

4Aces:
The inflatable raft plugging the jagged hole? It even has a rip in the bottom left corner, and never makes a proper seal (the edge bounces for the whole shoot).

I think that was a problem with the special effects, not the concept.

4Aces:
Lobbing a tesseract (or even the energy from one) into the Sun is a colossally bad idea.

My thoughts exactly.

4Aces:

I am still going to give it another few episodes to see if it can find it's post-Joss feet, but even with Joss, the pilot was mediocre. Starting to develop plot holes by episode 2 just brings back bad memories of Revolution. I really, really want to like this. So I am just writing this off as a single bad episode and waiting until next week.

So far, so "meh". It's not offensive, but it doesn't scream quality.

Those are some interesting theories, but I don't think the one about Coulson being a WW2 survival is right. My objection is the comments by the doctor in the previous chapter makes me think whatever happened to Coulson, he is not aware of that. The idea that he is nostalgic of WW2 and pre-cold war era spy technology because he lived through it, 70+ years ago, would mean he is fully aware there is something weird about him.

I believe his memorabilia fixation is just part of his character (he had the role of audience surrogate in the Iron Man and Avengers movies, and romantic nostalgia of things he barely knows or remembers is a common trait of the audience), and its a trait that somehow survived his "near death" experience. I believe at this point, it has become increasingly clear that there is something wrong with Tahiti.

Souplex:
Is it me or does Joss Whedon not understand what Gamma radiation is?
It's not magic plot juice, it's the regular kind of radiation that comes from radioactive elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_radiation
I first had my doubts about his knowing what it was in the Avengers with this line "Nothing dangerous, just light amounts of Gamma radiation" light amounts can still give you cancer.

Where the fuck have you been? This is based on a comic-book franchise. You know, the medium in which Gamma-radiation can do everything from giving you three eyes to turning you into a giant green monster of unstoppable rage. "Realism" is not a high priority here, and neither should it be.

And that line in Avengers was followed up by "that can be dangerous".

So far, like it A LOT. Characters are funny, the world-building is interesting without being TOO in-your-face about the references to the movieverse, plot-elements for later are intriguing and I quite like the formula of "problem of the week" with an overarching story that comes into play later. It lends itself well to character-driven shows and like I said, I quite like these characters.

I love your crazy theories on the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Bob!

4Aces:

The two Wesleys (biochem and engineering) are seriously annoying. Half their techno-babble is just that in this episode. At least for the pilot the science was well written, but in this episode - not so much.

This. I can't help but think of ST:TNG whenever the technobabble is spoken, additionally it always felt that the entire crew (even Wesley!) knew what they were talking about and could translate it into an understandable form. Without having to be asked! Except perhaps for Data during the earlier seasons anyway, but even he learned.

Moving on slightly, I do feel the writing is poor over these two episodes. It feels more as if it's a live-action rendition of Ultimate Spider-Man...so we are probably due for one or two reasonably good episodes and absolute Helicarrier-sized loads of filler. Why should we care about the characters? Right now, they're empty vessels without a reason to care for them. What's with the fight scenes? They never seem quite right to me, as if the editing was slightly off or the fist punching sounds a bit too generic. Or it could just be that the actors involved are lifeless MDF...with the exception of Clark Gregg, who I feel isn't given enough to really do and that - ironically - he is put to better use in Ultimate Spider-Man.

As for the visuals, the scene where Skye boards the Helicarrier? It screamed "we're on a soundstage!", it was as if I was watching a 60s series doing an "outdoor" indoor scene. As for those drones? They're still chintzy, poorly composited (anyone ever see shadows being cast by them?) and having a cameraman do a "wobbly path" to something and an overlay added in post-production? Just build a damn tricorder already! And naming them will probably find the absolute core fanbase recording such details, given that the rest of us more than likely won't as they aren't characters to the audience-at-large (just pieces of equipment) and as for Ward's silver stick and it's CGI effects...argh!

Now if the writing and all the acting performances were on a par with even the original X-Men 90s cartoon - despite that being overly theatrical at times - it would be nothing short of fantastic, regardless of the effects. Maybe if Deadpool was to come along and kill off some of the characters at the end of the season? And perhaps even be shouting things like "your contract has been renegotiated! To the auditions with you!" and if those drones are used? "Oooh! Shiny!" and then swat them between his hands as if they were flies...preferably one-by-one in front of those techies! Maybe even doing a "now this little drone went...BANG! And this little drone..." and so on. Now that would be nothing short of hilarious and I would definitely watch that! :D

Unfortunately, I can also see Agents of SHIELD's writers buggering up that too... :\

EDIT: For the sake of clarity, I have (of course) watched many a TV series where it was clear the actors were on a set. The differences though, are too numerous to mention but here are a few: that typically they were either decades old already by the time I got to see them, that a new episode was being completed every 7-10 days, the money just wasn't there and so on. Reasons can be given (as opposed to excuses being made).

For a 2013 big-budget and branded series that has to have state-of-the-art everything and has access to technologies and money that TV series back in the 90s (and obviously prior) could only dream of and still fall short? Worse that the acting and writing makes me notice these things? Then the cast and crew really need to up their game because, even based on just this thread alone, it's not just me who isn't exactly impressed with the series right now. Maybe in a few episodes. Maybe.

What a shame. Already such a drop in quality IMO. I thought the pilot was pretty good (not anything special but a fun watch) but this was mediocre. It seems like it's just going to be another one of those mystery of the week shows. This episode was filled with cliche, stupidity, and terrible CGI. The Bus doesn't look even remotely real. The landing scene in the jungle... I've scene better graphics from in game graphics in video games. I really hope it gets better because I want to like it but I won't keep watching if the next episode is like this.

So far reactions appear mixed.

I'll let it run for 5 episodes and see what people think then before I get into it, I don't want to be disappointed.

Sanunes:
For me to really get into the show they are going to have to start standing on their own and not keep throwing references to what happened in the movies, the other thing is the whole connection with Rising Tide needs to be either flushed out or flushed down the drain, for I dread the installments where we are going to get "Will Skye betray her new family/team or not" moments. I really think the Miami comment from Coulson was part of his test for her for its something she doesn't know about, but she has been able to hack their databases and hide her communications from everyone else.

Don't forget the following episodes where she's kicked out, but than they have to go to her because she is the only person that can solve some problem.

I am really hoping for a surprising twist on this common trope, like my theory Shield is using Is expecting her to continue working for the rising tide and is planning on secretly using her to get to them. She decides to be loyal to shield, than a few episodes later she learns that Shield had secretly been using her, so it's the team that betrays her trust, instead of the usual person betraying the teams trust. Coulson telling her (how every one including himself knows is a risk) to do something "that was every thing she was against", might be him purposely trying to keep her loyalties divided.

I find it ironic that this major network series promoting a multi-billion dollar franchise could become a repository for obscure, semi-forgotten characters and that said characters will be treated as a legitimate threat compared to mere mortal secret agents.

I'm thinking Skye's possible connection to Coulson is the only real way I could justify believing that her hacker skills would be reason enough to have her on the team despite how, unless I'm mistaken, SHIELD has no concrete idea who she is and can be infiltrated not just by her hacking but by the organization she's presumably with that SHIELD also seems unaware of. Really, to my mind they've basically taken a complete stranger off the streets, an outspoken anti-government protester mind you, and said, "Here is all the secret stuff we're doing; here is one of our most professional agents, drugged so you can interrogate him at your leisure; here is our high-tech stuff that we'll just trust that you never ever use against us." Either this show is going to pull a massive twist where SHIELD proves they knew everything that's been going on when things finally start going to hell, or they're really REALLY stupid. At that point, I'm at least hoping that "secret council" that launched the nuke at the end of Avengers gets some fleshing out, possibly relieving SHIELD of command and sparking an inter-organization crisis; that could easily fill a season.

JSF01:

I am really hoping for a surprising twist on this common trope, like my theory Shield is using Is expecting her to continue working for the rising tide and is planning on secretly using her to get to them. She decides to be loyal to shield, than a few episodes later she learns that Shield had secretly been using her, so it's the team that betrays her trust, instead of the usual person betraying the teams trust. Coulson telling her (how every one including himself knows is a risk) to do something "that was every thing she was against", might be him purposely trying to keep her loyalties divided.

This would be a great arc. We know all Nick Fury does is lie to everyone. If they were daring, they could actually let it follow a logical path. Skye would leave the team for good. In these shows/movies the person that was lied to always "comes around" and grudgingly accepts the liars. Maybe a soldier accepts that and moves on, but only becuase they have to. How great would it be if she found out Shield was lying , so she leaves and works against them for the rest of the show? Let Shield get bit in the arse for all the lying and manipulation. Now that would be good tv.

Faith Meade:
I just had an awesome thought about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Since it exists on television, it could allow the Marvel Movie Universe to include more characters that are out of reach due to various studios owning the rights. Spiderman could never be in Age of Ultron since Sony Pictures owns the rights to use him in movies, but that exclusivity does not extend to television.

I've had the same thought, too. Though if Spiderman does appear in the TV series, it's going to be hard to justify his absence films, unless they go for an alternate reality plot. Still, it'll be exciting.

Silverspetz:

Souplex:
Is it me or does Joss Whedon not understand what Gamma radiation is?
It's not magic plot juice, it's the regular kind of radiation that comes from radioactive elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_radiation
I first had my doubts about his knowing what it was in the Avengers with this line "Nothing dangerous, just light amounts of Gamma radiation" light amounts can still give you cancer.

Where the fuck have you been? This is based on a comic-book franchise. You know, the medium in which Gamma-radiation can do everything from giving you three eyes to turning you into a giant green monster of unstoppable rage. "Realism" is not a high priority here, and neither should it be.

And that line in Avengers was followed up by "that can be dangerous".

So far, like it A LOT. Characters are funny, the world-building is interesting without being TOO in-your-face about the references to the movieverse, plot-elements for later are intriguing and I quite like the formula of "problem of the week" with an overarching story that comes into play later. It lends itself well to character-driven shows and like I said, I quite like these characters.

Exactly, comic-book science is often way more off-the-wall bonkers than real-world science, and all the old comic-book writers weren't scientists themselves. I remember one episode of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes had The Leader team up with Absorbing Man and The Abomination to use a gamma weapon to both mind control and Hulk-ize every human in the world, starting with Las Vegas. The ways it affected the Avengers who weren't Hulk, Thor, Ant-Man, or Hawkeye (because Dr. Banner gave him a shot to protect him from gamma radiation) made you think less "Are they confusing gamma radiation with magic?" and more "By Odin's beard, Wasp has an exoskeleton now!"

I'm sticking with my "Coulson's a cyborg" theory until a future episode (most likely a mid-season finale, sweeps, or season finale) or movie reveals otherwise. Why a cyborg? Because I think, during or after the Cold War, S.H.I.E.L.D. "acquired" the technology the Soviet Union used to revive Bucky Barnes into their Winter Soldier. They had it lying around, and used it to revive Coulson.
As for keeping Skye around, as a double agent, it works for me. This show explores the espionage side of the MCU, and Phil is spying on the Rising Tide through Skye, who may be spying for them on S.H.I.E.L.D. I'm convinced Phil Coulson does have a superpower, and it's Genre Saviness.

I'm loosing hope with this show. The feature of the week aspect is forgettable but could work if it wasn't for the cast. The only person I find compelling is Coulson. Everyone one else is the kind of second rate actor I expect from the average "syfy" series. If this were scheduled against anything even marginally interesting I would likely be done with it already. Even with it being the only choice I'll probably still drop it in another couple episodes if it doesn't improve.

Its odd that I find Coulson so good here. In the movies I didn't find him nearly as moving. I didn't buy any of the avengers would care about his death, let allow that it would why they finally all worked together.

HBaskerville:

JSF01:

I am really hoping for a surprising twist on this common trope, like my theory Shield is using Is expecting her to continue working for the rising tide and is planning on secretly using her to get to them. She decides to be loyal to shield, than a few episodes later she learns that Shield had secretly been using her, so it's the team that betrays her trust, instead of the usual person betraying the teams trust. Coulson telling her (how every one including himself knows is a risk) to do something "that was every thing she was against", might be him purposely trying to keep her loyalties divided.

This would be a great arc. We know all Nick Fury does is lie to everyone. If they were daring, they could actually let it follow a logical path. Skye would leave the team for good. In these shows/movies the person that was lied to always "comes around" and grudgingly accepts the liars. Maybe a soldier accepts that and moves on, but only becuase they have to. How great would it be if she found out Shield was lying , so she leaves and works against them for the rest of the show? Let Shield get bit in the arse for all the lying and manipulation. Now that would be good tv.

That would be quite interesting though I am pretty sure It won't go that far, where she leaves forever to work against them. To me the show so far seems to be set up with Ward and Skye being the two main lead characters, that the show is primarily be about. Very few shows would have a lead much less a main lead, permanently switch sides. Agents of Shield definitely does not strike me as the type of show that would do that. So the I think the best we can hope for is the teem betraying her trust and she leaves, but than they are forced to work together again, and she rejoins.

And to be honest I think she is my favorite not Coulson character, and I don't think I would like to see her leave, even though it would be a very interesting turn of events. In my opinion Skye actually has more of a place on the team than Ward does. Ward is pretty much the Leader/combat guy, But they already have May who is even better at combat. That leaves just leader guy, But A) He "prefers to work alone", which does not really mesh well with him being a leader. B) the show is already showing that Skye has a leadership ability. That leaves Ward kind of redundant.

Souplex:
Is it me or does Joss Whedon not understand what Gamma radiation is?
It's not magic plot juice, it's the regular kind of radiation that comes from radioactive elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_radiation
I first had my doubts about his knowing what it was in the Avengers with this line "Nothing dangerous, just light amounts of Gamma radiation" light amounts can still give you cancer.

Yeah, this is a comic thing, it's not actual Gamma radiation it's Hulk Gamma radiation. It was thought up in like the 50's-60's when atomic science was considerably less understood but retained because sod it, Thor is literally a God with a hammer made out of a neutron star, it'd be silly to start critiquing the science, Gamma's just a different thing in this universe.

I still enjoyed this episode though, yeah, there was an obvious drop in quality from the pilot. Perhaps ironically, for an episode very much committed to establishing the central characters, all it's done for me is establish how many I can't bring myself to give a shit about.

I like Coulson (who doesn't?), I like Skye (a little despite myself) and... I liked Nick Fury's little cameo? Yeah, that's... that's it. The two tech geeks have gone from being an intriguing double act of banter to outright annoying, and Ward and May are both utterly boring. I really don't care what past trauma May has gone through. I'm going to keep watching it, and hope it picks up. I ended up really liking Dollhouse, and the first few episodes of that were crappy (and Eliza Dushku sucked throughout). I'm hoping the show actually ends up discussing, analysing and critiquing its own premise the way Dollhouse, and certain scenes in the Avengers did (Coulson's fanboyism, Tony and Bruce chatting science, basically any scene with Loki).

My biggest gripe with this episode is something that actually goes back throughout almost all Whedon shows. The technical dialogue - the jargon and technobabble - is just awful. Thoroughly, utterly awful. I really don't get why they can't have someone hanging around the writing staff with a basic background in science so that words at least aren't used in entirely the wrong context.

This annoyed me as far back as Firefly, even. As much as I love it, I still find the scene with Jayne trying to give Vera to Mal painful to watch. The script just throws together words vaguely related to firearms and hopes they stick - I'm hardly what you'd call a gun nut, but I still know enough that it annoys me. It sounds amateurish. Especially after the aforementioned Tony Stark/Bruce Banner geek out scene in Avengers which, at least at the time, sounded vaguely plausible to me (they mentioned the Coulomb barrier - that earns major points in my mind). Every time the two tech geeks said anything this episode, I basically yelled 'that makes no sense!' at the screen.

I think the entire purpose of this episode was to make Coulson bleed, because that can throw a wrench into the robot theory. Unless it's built in such a way to bleed.....I still say clone.

Both episodes have been kinda ok so far, nothing special, I think its the characters - i really dont care about any of them. Though i would say there is a huge amount of things to add in the future that will make it an awesome show. For now, im seeing the first 6 episodes as world building and character building. After that i would like to see more crazy stuff, like certain marvel villains getting involved and Shield have to thwart their plans. Maybe have an episode where Ironman turns up to save them and Coulson has to hide from him mid battle as he is meant to be dead etc

Huge scope for this show.

yeah, i think i'm going with LMD or the Vision. think the magical line is a decoy

4Aces:
As for this episode, they actually identify the weakest part of the show - the kids. Then they proceed to do nothing about it. In fact, Coulson says that just giving them a common enemy is all that it would take to turn them into a team. If that weak writing is the best they can do, this is going to be another Revolution. They need to treat is like Buffy, not a slapstick CW show.

I am still going to give it another few episodes to see if it can find it's post-Joss feet, but even with Joss, the pilot was mediocre. Starting to develop plot holes by episode 2 just brings back bad memories of Revolution. I really, really want to like this. So I am just writing this off as a single bad episode and waiting until next week.

All of this.

First episode was just OK, and this episode: poorly written script, poor acting, little-to-no chemistry between the actors, boring action scenes. Also, the character arcs are obvious already - it's like I can see the whole run of the show laid out in front of me. The "hostage" situation is a poor decision this early in the run. Obviously they're not going to kill off any characters this early (although, that would have made things interesting), and I don't care enough about the characters to be upset if they had. Plus the cameo at the end? This is a low-budget 45-minute commercial for the next Avengers movie. No me gusta.

craddoke:

Makabriel:
\Sorry, but Skye is Faith reborn, just a geeky version of her. She is so much like Eliza Dushku it's scary. Mannerisms and everything..

The actress does seem to be channeling Eliza Dushku (did she read for the part? Because it seems like it was written for her), but the flighty hacker geek is pre-witch Willow grown up -- with maybe a dash of Kaylee.

Glad I'm not the only person who thought that. I actually had to check the credits just to be sure.

Once again Sweden gets mixed up with Switzerland! And probably not for the last time...

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