Jimquisition: Reasons To Pass On Season Passes

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hawk533:
Curious what Jim would think if Payday 2 offers a DLC pass when the first piece of DLC finally drops for it. I know he celebrated the ability of that studio to make a profit on "only" 1 million copies sold.

I've already put 100 hours into the game, so if they offer a pass, I think I'll buy it. I don't think the pass is a bad idea if it's not offered until after the game comes out. That way everyone can determine if they want to keep playing or not.

It's a pity Payday 2 was a HUGE let down with the pre-order "bonus". And it's constant updating where in which half the time they are having to fix the previous update makes the game more or less redundant.

Yeah, Payday 2 was the last game I pre-ordered and it was the first one to disappoint me to the point where I wish I bought it as an Xbox 360 title so I could've traded it in and gotten some money back. I never bought a season pass because I generally don't buy DLC (In fact the only DLC I have bought was for Skyrim, but I got it all in the legendary edition).

So yeah, I couldn't agree quite more with this episode. Normally I'm all for DLC and pre-ordering, but recent events have me starting to turn the other way.

Yes. So glad someone called out developers on this bs.

DLC ≠ Product Support!

The absolute worst offenders on this of late in my opinion, have undoubtedly been Creative Assembly.

Shogun 2, Co-Op campaign. Broken on release and never fixed. Of course this didn't stop them from releasing no less than 7 DLC packs, 2 expansion packs and more DLC for the expansions. Oh and of course they never did fix the Co-Op campagin so it's STILL broken in Rome 2, along with the rest of the game. Wonder how long until they start jamming some more unit packs down our throats?

Oh wait, they already did with the Greek States pack.

That comment by Steven Ter Heide pretty much proves just how full of shit the industry is. The only question remaining, is whether or not they do the required mental gymnastics to believe it, or they are knowingly screwing over their customers.

see Jim, when you make content on things that actually matter, not some made up controversies, your videos are quite enjoyable

Aliens Colon-anal Marines destroyed Jim. He was once a boy filled with hope and dreams until Gearbox fired a blunderbust full of shit at him... there were no diamonds

After going through Siants Row Thirds Season Pass (with sub par DLC, if I'm being honest) and Darksiders 2 bug riddled expansions that crippled the game (I can't even play the last piece of content I played for because the game keeps on crashing) I've only ever bought another for Bioshock Infinite, because I really liked the game. But after the long wait I'm sort of wary and Bioshocks honeymoon period has solidly worn off (overtaken by The Last of Us as my personal GOTY), and to have the next DLC not reallt tie up any loose ends with Bioshocks plot but to go off in some alternate reality, I am sort of miffed.

So I'm happy that all the DLC for SR4 was delayed in Australia, stops me pissing my money away.

So the simple answer for Irrational is to sell the Season Pass when the DLC first becomes available. When they have a reasonable idea of what's to come a la the Bioshock Infinite DLC reveal.

I'm against season passes just on principal, especially when material is purposefully left out. That said, I did get the SP for Borderlands 2 (because I love that game), and also for Saints Row the Third (included in the Complete Package release) and Darksiders 2 (got it really, really, really cheap). I'll basically buy 'em when I feel the vanilla game is lacking content.

mjc0961:
Also Borderlands 2 is a season pass done completely the wrong way. They either knew they were going to make more DLC in the first place and intentionally held some of it back so they could still sell even more DLC to people who already paid for what's supposed to be the "get all the DLC" ticket, or they didn't know they were going to make more DLC in the first place but decided "fuck the few loyal fans we have left after the Aliens Colonial Marines fiasco" and made them pay full price for said DLC even though they could have given it for free or sold it at a discounted price to people who already bought the season pass.

That's a good synopsis of what pissed me off so much about the Borderlands 2 Season Pass. Gearbox made it sound like there would be minimal DLC available outside of the SP, and then they turned around and admitted to secretly working on tons more content that would be available in yet another Pass. They got greedy. Guess that's just par for the course for them now.

Welp, I learned my lesson after the Borderlands 2 season pass didn't include all the DLC released for it, be nice if there had been an object lesson about that before I'd gotten that, but oh well, at least I enjoyed the content it did provide...

never bought the season passes my attitude was wait for it to come out and buy it as it shows up. but then back in day usually i wait for game of year version (did for fallout games and couple other i had.

if our world was like dungeons and dragons and I was a deity with the "Irony" domain I would make jim release a jimquisition season pass the next day

im so ripped

also great video

I never liked the idea of season passes, and have generally regretted getting them. Pre-ordering them really does just seem like its the studio asking for a handout so they can fling a turd at you for a few months after the game comes out. Although the one case where I think I would like season passes is if the company used them as the pre-order bonus for getting the main game. That would even excuse them not including some of the later DLC (what they seem to want to do anyway), and it would in most cases make the risk of pre-ordering the game worth it for me.

In general Ive found that I never want to buy more than 1 piece of good dlc for a game. The only exceptions for me were borderlands 1 and Valkyria Chronicles where I bought 3 pieces of dlc. By the time the second piece of dlc comes out for most games Ive lost interest and moved on and a dinky side mission with no story relevance isn't going to cut it for me.

Jimothy Sterling:
Reasons To Pass On Season Passes

You were promised an episode on season passes, in the wake of Jimquisition complaing about downloadable content. There is a season for all things, and that season has come to pass.

Watch Video

Jim, I agree with your premise, however, I want to use your line of "Customer Choice" in this context.

I think the issue isn't just that company's offer pre-orders or season passes, but the consumer also needs to do research. Most season passes are available for the lifetime of the game, and after playing it, he/she may want to buy all the DLC at the reduced price. For example, someone who enjoy's a first person shooter with a group of friends may know that they want all the new maps as they come out, and would like to save some cash. Or someone finishes Bioshock Infinite, and decides they trust the team at Irrational to come out with great content (as history has shown), and save some hard earned money on the upcoming content.

If someone buys a season pass BEFORE playing the game, then it's a buyer beware type situation, the same as pre-ordering is. I've been burned before, and decided not to pre-order things unless I have a lot of research in it or is part of an existing franchise I already know and love.

I think my main issue is this the on-going theme as game publishers and developers as "greedy and horrible". I wholeheartedly agree that there have been miscues, bad ideas, and a lot of dirtbags out there, just like anything else on earth. I think it's more then fair to call them to the carpet, but also understand that there are really good people out there as well doing what the love, making a fine product and selling it a fair price. Capitalism isn't a bad system, it's what allows us to have hobbies and even careers in video games. You have to call out and punish the assholes and credit those who do the right thing and/or go above and beyond, and realize that every questionable decision may not be out of greed or malice, but just a good intention that went the wrong way.

I know alot of what you do is for laughs and to be edgy and I'm not asking you to change a bit of that, I just would like to hope that you do understand some of these things in the long run.

I can't make any arguments on why how pre-ordering dlc is a smart idea so jim is right. although I may be hard to not follow that principal for the telltale's the walking dead season 2.

I loled at "A blunder bust of shit" A little more than I think I should have.

I think that if your "Thank god for me" was mostly or entirely inaudible (you know, because you'd just dropped the mic), it would have been funnier.
Great episode though, thanks Jim.

I don't mind them. They have their use. When I got Saint's Row3 on a Steam Sale, I could've bought certain DLC packs (that were already released) separately, or just get the season pass. I got the season pass, and I don't regret it.

If people buy a season pass before the DLC is actually released and are later disappointed, they only have themselves to blame.

Hey, the pasta sauce episode was my favorite - no foul of well used food metaphors.

The only way I own DLC nowadays is if it comes bundled as part of a steam sale, and that's it.

I pre-ordered Battlefield 3 Premium back in the day. While it wasn't necessarily a mistake, I only really enjoyed 2 of the 4 map packs DICE released. The other 2 were okay, but that's it, okay. Won't do the same with BF4. Better to spend $30.00 on 2 map packs you'll play a lot on rather than $50.00 on 2 good packs and 2 you'll never play again after the hype has died down.

Borderlands 2 was my first and last time buying a season pass. The guy at gamestop misled me into thinking it included the Mechcromancer only to find out it didn't. I was new to Borderlands and hadn't done extensive research, but it taught me lesson. Overall I'm pleased with the DLC but can't say I would've bought it after I finished the main game.

I've never ever bought a season pass. I never will. I just don't trust it. So many things could go wrong and I'm not wasting money. I wait for GOTY editions, either that or the DLC is just not worth it.
I loved Borderlands 2, but I didn't buy a season pass. I'll wait a while and then get the GOTY edition super cheap.
I loved Sleeping Dogs, but aside from the DLC included with a brand new game (some cop outfit and a couple of missions) I never bothered with the rest.

Same with Kickstarter. Sorry, I'm not backing anything unless it's Taylor Swift naked in my bedroom.

Volition's way of handling season passes is the right one, if there IS a right way to handle them.

All the "big" dlc (missions, etc) goes in the pass, while the silly nonsense and frippery (extra clothes, weapons, vehicles) is purchased piecemeal. They get to exploit the idiots who love shiny things (i.e, me) while still giving people who are really into the game for the game's sake (also me) a way to invest in extending the game's lifetime beyond the initial run time.

Thanatos2k:

Paradoxrifts:

Thanatos2k:

You know, it is possible to release a game and not release any DLC. Imagine that, selling the complete game the first time and not having to worry about consumer interest waning in your game a month later - because they were completely satisfied the first time!

Please.

The only way to go back to them 'good old days' when your average gamer played the same game for months and months on end would be to pass and enforce a new law where everyone is only ever allowed to buy a single game on their birthday and at Christmas.

Why do you need them to play your game for months? You make a game, you sell it, they play it, they finish it. You get money, they get a complete experience, they become your fans if they like it to buy your next game, and they will tell other people who haven't heard of your game how good it is.

I think we might have misunderstood one another, as I have absolutely no desire to play a game for months on end. I was merely pointing out that the gamers are by and large a rather gluttonous lot, who seldom finish what is currently resting on their plate before going back for seconds. Not trying to be judgmental or anything. It's just the way it is.

Season passes are insanely stupid.

Mostly because in the end you are saving maybe 1-2 dollars on content that you are on average not going to be satisfied with entirely.

I've never purchased the FULL amount of DLC from ANY game because I simply look it up, see if I want it, and it always turns out(big surprise) that one piece of DLC is just lackluster sidequesting or some generic character customization charge.

That is exactly the reason I always pass on Borderlands DLC till something big comes out. If they want to charge for some half-assed mission, go ahead, I'm not paying.
-------------------------------

Season passes just represent everything wrong with dlc, except blindly pledging your money to a game you will probably ditch by the time the last part of the dlc comes out.

Um... Borderlands 2 season pass wasn't in any way misrepresented. It tells you exactly what you get both in the microsoft store and when you were buying it from a third-party: the first four additional campaigns. This, additionally, was a promise to add four more campaigns to the game. The free level cap adjustment was actually a bonus that was added later, everything else wasn't in the SP because the SP explicitly said it wouldn't be.

If you can't be arsed to read the whole two-sentence product description before buying something, I'd have to say that's more on you than on the developers.

Jim_Callahan:
Um... Borderlands 2 season pass wasn't in any way misrepresented. It tells you exactly what you get both in the microsoft store and when you were buying it from a third-party: the first four additional campaigns. This, additionally, was a promise to add four more campaigns to the game. The free level cap adjustment was actually a bonus that was added later, everything else wasn't in the SP because the SP explicitly said it wouldn't be.

If you can't be arsed to read the whole two-sentence product description before buying something, I'd have to say that's more on you than on the developers.

It's not so much that it's misrepresentation so much as it is that there's simply no point in having a season pass, which is meant to sell DLC at a discounted price, if you're going to have a quarter of it not covered by the season pass. If you have a season pass, the expectation is that you get the DLC released the moment its out without having to spend extra. If you're just going to have people pay for other bits of DLC not covered by a season pass, then you may as well give them the option to buy any piece they want a la carte, thus making it more convenient and easier to understand.

The analogy I go back to is paying to enter a theme park, but having to pay for a few of the rides for some arbitrary reason. The expectation is that you pay the admission to ride all the rides inside without having to pay extra. If that's not the approach you want, then have the admission be free but enact a pay-per-ride structure so that you can pay for the attractions you want to visit.

Again, anyone can read up and see what's covered and what's not, but why have a system that needs that kind of explaining? It's convoluted without having a good reason to be so.

I have only bought two season passes in my life. I believe that it is stupid to pre-order something without any idea of what it will be. Story extensions, "horde" mode, skin packs, weapon packs? Roll the dice, you feelin lucky punk?

My two moments of weakness occurred because I betrayed myself and allowed myself to be swayed by how good the games were and, dare I say it, trust the developers. I bought the Borderlands 2 season pass and the Bioshock Infinite season pass. Borderlands 2's season pass was not a bad deal, but all the DLC that came out should have been included. That shit pisses me off to no end. Bioshock Infinite's season pass is bullshit. A "horde" mode, a DLC cut in half to take up two of the four promised DLCs, one of which I hear is all narrative/ no gameplay, and who the fuck knows what the fourth will be? :(

image

very good episode here Jim. I completely agree with what you said here. And i never buy Season Passes and i never Pre-order games. I will actually let couple weeks pass for the hype to settle and see if its actually worth getting after all. Besides, i can always just pick one of over 100 games in my backlog anyway.

Arnoxthe1:
There are some people I know that love having a game delivered to them right when it's released so they don't have to go out and perhaps wait in a line.

I think map packs need to be addressed. It's a rather serious issue for FPS' and I would like to hear your thoughts on it, Jim.

These people can buy digital and get it delivered the second it launches.
Map packs are the worst, especially since by the time they are out modders have usually created better maps for free already.

Just want to say, I did the Borderlands 2 season pass and don;t regret it. It ended up saving us money. Can't be mad at that.
That said, I only did it because I knew I was going to get every bit of DLC the game had anyway. (I don't do this for just any game. Borderlands is one of those games for me, so I was happy to do the season pass thing.)

Of course I know that's just one success story in a sea of disappointments and anger.

chozo_hybrid:

ninjaRiv:
I preordered Arkham Origins and I don't regret a thing. I preordered Splinter Cell Blacklist and loved it. I did this because I researched the product, the companies and people involved and I know I already like the franchises. So preordering can be good for established companies with great names attached. Their products are available for preview, some more than others, and the research can be done.

Problem with Season Passes is, there's no product before you order it. It's all based on faith and trust. Even if you trust the people involved, there's still no product to examine and preview. So... Yeah, good video. Agree with a lot of it.

Arkham Origins has a season pass already? Jeez. When was that announced, I've pre-ordered the game because I'm confident about that purchase, but will wait until all details are revealed on that before getting. I just hope the game isn't having content cut out of it.

I agree with his video too. The only season pass I ever bought was for injustice because I would have got the characters regardless, I like my fighting games and more characters was fine with me in this instance.

EDIT: So the skins I get with my pre-order are part of it, lame. Wasn't the reason I've pre-ordered, want the physical goodies, but still. That's supposed to be ab onus for preordering, at least for a while anyway.

Just looked it up, they say the story bit will be well worth the asking price. All the costumes in it are more like bonuses. In that case, I'll wait and see rather the buy it blind.

I read that the Gotham by Gaslight skin is only available if you buy the Season pass... Which is pretty terrible.

Charcharo:
A 60 Dollar game would NOT have needed DLC for support if they came MODABLE.
Modding >>> DLC. Of coarse, good DLC + modding is golden, but if a developer wants to REALLY support their game post-launch, release a SDK. There you go, if it has fans, it will be eternal. Immortal. The rest is BS.

Anyways, good episode Jim! But what if we really really trust the developing company? Is it alright then (and we were never dissapointed from them before)

But consoles can only get the crappy parts of PC gaming; that memo went out years ago.

I would be wary even if you trust the devs. Gearbox really impressed me with the Borderlands games but I am very grateful I only rented Duke & Aliens. Strangely enough, I did end up buying the Borderlands 2 Season Pass (the only time I ever got a season pass) but that's because I was going to buy all the DLC anyway, so I figured I'd get a discount. Worked out well for me but that's not why I think Borderlands 2 is a bad argument for Jim.
The thing about Borderlands 2 Season Pass is that you could still buy it after all the content was released; you can probably still buy it now. It's about as blind a purchase as any game on the shelf.

But that same thing turned me off to LA Noir right off the bat. Besides the auctioning off of game content to different retailers, it seemed like that content was just pruned away from the original release: it didn't do anything different with the game, just some extra missions in the same style as the others. It just seemed really desperate of them.

But what can you expect really, so many people bought into the idea of pre-ordering games (why? I'll never know; people even got into it long before they gave you anything extra for pre-ordering) so of course the vultures are going to swoop in and exploit that. Gamers are notoriously foolish consumers which is why we see things like this...or the original Xbone concept.

ninjaRiv:
I read that the Gotham by Gaslight skin is only available if you buy the Season pass... Which is pretty terrible.

That is terrible. I love the art direction for that, but still, the skins don't change game play if the last games were anything to go by, so it's not turning that part into a definite sell to me.

Normally I'm totally against pre-order or season passes but I broke my rule for Borderlands 2. And I don't regret it. The DLC rated meh, good, meh and godly. Assault on Dragon Keep was completely fucking awesome and worth purchasing the game for in itself.

Gearbox earned my trust by making the spectacular Borderlands 1 quite perfect and even though they missed some steps in 2 (no decapitation or dismemberment or elaborate death animations, marketing paid costumes in game) they generally did a good job and I don't regret the money spent.

That said it would take a LOT for me do that again. I would with XCOM2 if that ever comes out, I will with the Binding of Isaac remake but not much else.

I was gifted around 2000 Microsoft points for christmas along with Halo 4... so what did I do? I bought the fucking season pass didn't I?

Worst decision ever, pre-ordering of DLC is the biggest fucking scam in the industry.
Sure I got some maps (yawn) but when the actual DLC that was worth buying came round (the one that added a new game type) it wasn't included in the season pass. As Jim would say "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFuck off!"

chozo_hybrid:

ninjaRiv:
I read that the Gotham by Gaslight skin is only available if you buy the Season pass... Which is pretty terrible.

That is terrible. I love the art direction for that, but still, the skins don't change game play if the last games were anything to go by, so it's not turning that part into a definite sell to me.

The fact that you have to purchase skins at all is something I hate, anyway. It was a pretty big negative (imo) part of Arkham City. Skins should be unlocked in game using skill, not something you need to pay for. It seems absolutely crazy! But we all know that... We all know what DLC should be.

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