EXP: ScrewAttack's Death Battle! Goku vs. Superman

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ScrewAttack's Death Battle! Goku vs. Superman

This is it! The ultimate answer to the ultimate question! Two alien saviors battle to the death! One will win. One will die.

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I'm confused. Hasn't this been out for a long time and that there was a big internet stink about the results?

the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

FalloutJack:
I'm confused. Hasn't this been out for a long time and that there was a big internet stink about the results?

Yes. EXP is new here and has only been on the Escapist since some time earlier this year. However EXP has existed for years so their shows have been on youtube and other places for years.

As for Superman vs Goku it was very obvious, Superman is immortal it's been shown before at the end of the DC universe he is the only thing still alive alone in the void because he is more powerful than death (who is an entity in DC) so she cannot claim him. And any time he has supposedly "died" previously he has really just entered a healing hibernation and come back later. Goku on other hand is mortal, he's died what 4-5 times? by the end of GT.

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

If they did that they would need to do it for golden god end game superman which if you watched the video they said they didn't want to go into.

Feel free to disagree with me on this one (and I'm sure many, many people will), but I personally think that this is about as close to the real outcome and anyone could reliably do.

Granted, I feel there's a few small miscalculation here and there (most notably Goku's speed), but really, Superman winning seems like the right choice. There isn't anything in Goku's arsenal that Superman couldn't tank. And Goku doesn't get healed in sunlight, so even if Goku were faster (which I think he might be), Superman would eventually outlast him. The only two moves Goku's got that MIGHT put a dent in Superman is the Solar Flare and the Spirit Bomb... neither of which would actually WORK on Superman (due to his physiology and morality, respectively).

Still, props on the Death Battle guys for the shear amount of nerd-mining they put into this thing. Even if you don't agree with the outcome, you have to respect the amount of research they did to make what is essentially a schoolyard "who would win" fight into a massive production. Definitely their best work.

there is a right answer to this and correct answer to this. the right answer is superman because he has the power of having bullshit powers. he has the power to do anything he believes he can do becuase the sun doesn't have limitless energy and regardless of that there is simply no amount of energy that will reverse time by spining a planet backwards. the correct answer is goku, because he cant controll himself in super syian 4 so he wouldn't have fought fairly, and he only did that with freeza to make a point, he didn't give anyone else a chance to power up. also superman would have given up to save the earth.

I always wondered how people think this is even a contest. The things Superman can do are absolutely ludicrous. Whatever happens, Superman wins. And if he doesn't, that's because of inconsistent writing. Seems a bit boring, if you ask me, but to each their own. :D

Also, kudos to the absolute nerditude of this comparison. I take my hat off for you.

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

Aren't the movies non canon and therefore non applicable?

And the whole of the escapist goes to shit in three... two... one...

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

They gotta redo them period. Goku got shafted in the calculations, especially when it came to his speed and strength. And they aren't factoring in power levels.

Before you say "Power levels are bullsh*t", you're wrong. Every time you see a character in DBZ, the one with the higher power level is more likely to win the fight. The bullsh*t factor came from the characters' sudden changes and their ability to almost instantly increase or decrease them at will, which made using an immediate reading of it a bad way to determine the fight.

Wandering_Hero:

Aren't the movies non canon and therefore non applicable?

Battle of Gods was written by Toriyama and was the jumping point for a new series. It's canon.

saintdane05:
And the whole of the escapist goes to shit in three... two... one...

nah. anything posted by these guys is image so it should only rile the feathers of they who under rocks live.
there may be a few, but i doubt it'll reach shitstorm levels.

OT: i agreed with this result back then too. not because i like it, but because supes is stupid OP and as a concept would be kicked out of any respectable RPs.

Angelous Wang:

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

If they did that they would need to do it for golden god end game superman which if you watched the video they said they didn't want to go into.

I agree.

Why give Goku his god form but not Superman?

Oh this was fun. I love seeing Goku get owned like this. I dislike the "paragon of virtue" aspect of Superman, but I HATE that whole "idiot who punches things super hard is the hero/protagonist" trope. Also the reason I don't like One Piece.

Sheen Lantern:

Angelous Wang:

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

If they did that they would need to do it for golden god end game superman which if you watched the video they said they didn't want to go into.

I agree.

Why give Goku his god form but not Superman?

Because the form they mentioned for God superman was the 853rd century future version a current year Goku after about 3 to 5 years after the Buu fight.

Heck, even having Post GT goku fight that Superman is unfair by a good 85,200 years.

I may not like the result, but, going by what they stated, I agree with the results.

I only have two complaints.

One, they state that Superman thinks the buildings are more important than him. So, why would he do anything to destroy the Earth? Death Battle is pretty good about keeping them in character, stating that they only remove a character's "no killing" rule if it would come into conflict in order to keep things fair. But they don't remove the character's other moral or philosophical beliefs.

Two, they state that they use anything that doesn't go against established canon. Which is why they used GT and SSJ4 (though, now, those are officially non-canon at the time they made this it wasn't). But if they used GT, they should also use Goku's power in GT. It's pretty obvious that even as a kid, Goku was at or near his former SSJ3 levels from the Buu Saga. He was shown fighting people stronger than Frieza and even as strong as Majin Buu in base or SSJ form. So, they should have used that in their calculations. In other words, Goku's base should have been his SSJ3 stats in this video.

All that being said, I still like this video. It's a good fight with two powerful and fairly even matched fighters going toe to toe. If nothing else, they said it best in the video.

Goku is a hero who surpasses his limits. Superman is a hero without limits. In a fight, only one of them has limits to be surpassed...

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

I wouldn't ask for that. The video was good as it is. Still won't end the never ending debate, though. Especially if they do make more movies or even a new series using the latest movie as a jumping off point.

Angelous Wang:
As for Superman vs Goku it was very obvious, Superman is immortal it's been shown before at the end of the DC universe he is the only thing still alive alone in the void because he is more powerful than death (who is an entity in DC) so she cannot claim him. And any time he has supposedly "died" previously he has really just entered a healing hibernation and come back later. Goku on other hand is mortal, he's died what 4-5 times? by the end of GT.

I don't think they would have used that against Goku. Seems really cheap.

Angelous Wang:

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

If they did that they would need to do it for golden god end game superman which if you watched the video they said they didn't want to go into.

I'd welcome that. Goku was able to fight pretty evenly with the God of Destruction. A literal galaxy buster. Sure, he only fought at about 70% of his full power, but it was still a good fight. Though, I doubt they would do that. Too much work.

Wandering_Hero:

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

Aren't the movies non canon and therefore non applicable?

They stated that anything that doesn't go against established canon was free game. So movies like Tree of Might wouldn't work. But Super Android 13, Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan, and Battle of the Gods would all be applicable.

Sorry. Dragonball fanboy mode off.

Wandering_Hero:

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

Aren't the movies non canon and therefore non applicable?

GT is non canon according to the Creator of DB so SS4 shouldn't have been used, how even since the creator of DB actually did all the writing and such for 'Battle of the Gods' SSG could be canon.

though I'm not 100% sure, though I doubt the result would be much different.

Lunar Templar:

Wandering_Hero:

torch464:
the calculations need to be redone, because goku reached god status as of the last movie.

Aren't the movies non canon and therefore non applicable?

GT is non canon according to the Creator of DB so SS4 shouldn't have been used, how even since the creator of DB actually did all the writing and such for 'Battle of the Gods' SSG could be canon.

though I'm not 100% sure, though I doubt the result would be much different.

When this was done, Toriyama had never really stated that GT was non-canon. In fact, he hadn't said much on the series. And he did some promotional art for it, as well. So, you could argue that he did sort of give his blessing to it.

It was only with the recent release of Battle of the Gods that one can say that GT is no longer canon. Largely as the movie is canon and certainly contradicts several things in GT. For example, we never see Bra in the movie, who should be older than Pan. And we see Pilaf and company in the movie having actually used the Dragon Balls to regain their youth, turning them into children which contradicts the start of GT.

Thus, GT is no longer canon. But when this video was made, nearly a year ago or better, it could be argued as canon. And certainly didn't contradict the canon of the manga or anime. Thus, they used it.

Super Saiyan God is canon, however, it requires five other Saiyans to attain that form. So, unless Goku could use it freely after his fight against Bills, he would not be able to use it against Superman since outside help is not allowed. However, there is reason to believe he could use it at the end of the movie or at least something similar. And since he was able to fight more or less evenly with Bills, and Gods were stated and shown to be far above anything Goku or Vegeta could ever hope to challenge normally, one could argue that it would give him an edge against Superman.

This is all conjecture, though. Just enjoy the fight. It doesn't make Goku any less than he is. And I still think he's a better hero than Superman. Much more interesting story and fights if nothing else.

Saltyk:

Super Saiyan God is canon,

This is all conjecture, though. Just enjoy the fight. It doesn't make Goku any less than he is. And I still think he's a better hero than Superman. Much more interesting story and fights if nothing else.

Good to know.

As for the fight it self, 'I've got no dog in it', so to speak, grew out of DBZ (cept DBZA, but that's a whole other animal) and never been a fan of Superman so the whole thing is just a reason to get popcorn to me :3

also, is it just me, or is it funny the 'Nerd VS show' is more credible then the one on TV using real warriors and army's.

Couldn't Goku just teleport Superman to the middle of nowhere using instant transmission, and then leave him there? Without the sun Superman would be screwed, right? Besides, the calculations were completely off. This fight wasn't as one sided as some of their others, but it definitely felt biased.conquer the universe eons ago? Their sun was yellow once, right? They can apparently breath in space (which should

I don't know, some of the things I've heard about Superman are plain ridiculous. He's stronger than death, so he's officially immortal? He was crushed by two suns, but he shrugs it off? Not to mention his perfect moral compass. I'm not a huge fan of either character, but I never realized just how much of a Mary Sue Superman really was. His power is all over the place, it's completely inconsistent. If he's so brokenly powerful, why didn't his entire race expand outward and be impossible in both the DBZ and DC universe). How can there be any dramatic tension with this character? He may be the most powerful fictional character of all time, but he's also one of the most poorly written. I'd expect this from a five year old. Also, how-

Nope. I've already put way more thought into this than either Toriyama or the entirety of DC.

If superman has to blow up the earth to win, it's not a win.

Also, when Goku wins he generally winds up with another friend. And when Goku loses, he gets wished back with the dragonballs.

Fox12:
Couldn't Goku just teleport Superman to the middle of nowhere using instant transmission, and then leave him there? Without the sun Superman would be screwed, right? Besides, the calculations were completely off. This fight wasn't as one sided as some of their others, but it definitely felt biased.conquer the universe eons ago? Their sun was yellow once, right? They can apparently breath in space (which should

I don't know, some of the things I've heard about Superman are plain ridiculous. He's stronger than death, so he's officially immortal? He was crushed by two suns, but he shrugs it off? Not to mention his perfect moral compass. I'm not a huge fan of either character, but I never realized just how much of a Mary Sue Superman really was. His power is all over the place, it's completely inconsistent. If he's so brokenly powerful, why didn't his entire race expand outward and be impossible in both the DBZ and DC universe). How can there be any dramatic tension with this character? He may be the most powerful fictional character of all time, but he's also one of the most poorly written. I'd expect this from a five year old. Also, how-

Nope. I've already put way more thought into this than either Toriyama or the entirety of DC.

You're assuming Goku is fast enough to grab Superman, which he isn't.

Superman does have a rather ridiculous array of powers, and they are inconsistent at best at times, but that's what you get when you have a character that's been written for decades by different writers. Some want to explore the depths of his character, and why he is who he is, and those stories are generally interesting and well thought out. Others want him to fulfill a power fantasy and have him perform all these ridiculous feats for that. Some even put the two together. As for dramatic tension, yeah Superman is powerful, but he's far from the most powerful fictional character of all time. There are cosmic beings out there that dwarf him in power, hell, there are people in the Justice League who could hand him his ass if they wanted to.

Superman gets a bad rep because he's sometimes portrayed as overpowered (especially back in the Silver Age) when shown in comparison to Earth heroes and villains, despite the fact that he's honestly a below average being in a multiverse filled with beings that could blink Superman, Goku, and almost any other "overpowered" character you could think of out of existence.

Alaster Angelo:

Fox12:
Couldn't Goku just teleport Superman to the middle of nowhere using instant transmission, and then leave him there? Without the sun Superman would be screwed, right? Besides, the calculations were completely off. This fight wasn't as one sided as some of their others, but it definitely felt biased.conquer the universe eons ago? Their sun was yellow once, right? They can apparently breath in space (which should

I don't know, some of the things I've heard about Superman are plain ridiculous. He's stronger than death, so he's officially immortal? He was crushed by two suns, but he shrugs it off? Not to mention his perfect moral compass. I'm not a huge fan of either character, but I never realized just how much of a Mary Sue Superman really was. His power is all over the place, it's completely inconsistent. If he's so brokenly powerful, why didn't his entire race expand outward and be impossible in both the DBZ and DC universe). How can there be any dramatic tension with this character? He may be the most powerful fictional character of all time, but he's also one of the most poorly written. I'd expect this from a five year old. Also, how-

Nope. I've already put way more thought into this than either Toriyama or the entirety of DC.

You're assuming Goku is fast enough to grab Superman, which he isn't.

Superman does have a rather ridiculous array of powers, and they are inconsistent at best at times, but that's what you get when you have a character that's been written for decades by different writers. Some want to explore the depths of his character, and why he is who he is, and those stories are generally interesting and well thought out. Others want him to fulfill a power fantasy and have him perform all these ridiculous feats for that. Some even put the two together. As for dramatic tension, yeah Superman is powerful, but he's far from the most powerful fictional character of all time. There are cosmic beings out there that dwarf him in power, hell, there are people in the Justice League who could hand him his ass if they wanted to.

Superman gets a bad rep because he's sometimes portrayed as overpowered (especially back in the Silver Age) when shown in comparison to Earth heroes and villains, despite the fact that he's honestly a below average being in a multiverse filled with beings that could blink Superman, Goku, and almost any other "overpowered" character you could think of out of existence.

To be fair, Goku is overpowered too, but I give him a little bit more credit because he's atleast consistent. I actually like the versions of Superman that aren't overpowered self parodies. The animated DC Superman was pretty good because he had a likable but flawed personality, and he wasn't invincible. I just can't stand poorly developed power fantasies. If their going to do this video, I think they should have atleast chosen a consistent incarnation of superman, like the animated or film versions. Or maybe a version of superman under the run of a particular writer. Maybe the original creators of his character? Of course, I also think Gokus SS4 should have been thrown out, since it was created by a different team of writers.

Like most of these Screw Attack videos, this is incredibly biased, clearly being designed to understate one contender's abilities while raising another. All the calculations about Goku are way off, making assumptions about what he's capable of. For one thing, how long Snake Way is has never been established, so it's poor to use that as a speed measurement, and besides Goku got several dozens of times stronger, faster, and in every way more powerful by the time just before he even reached Super Saiyan, so to base the Super Saiyan forms off the calculation of that even if it were correct is just wrong.

To wit:

-Goku had a power level of 8,000 (yeah, I'm using power levels, but that's the only actual numbers we're given and they're only inaccurate when someone's hiding their power, which they weren't when the measurements were taken) when crossing Snake Way, and he became capable of fighting evenly (more like surpass him with some trouble) with Frieza in his fourth form at 1%. For comparison, Frieza's second form had a power level about 1,000,000, so just going off of that would mean Goku increased his power by 125 times which would include his speed. Frieza's actual power level starts to get screwy after that and not really add up so I'm sticking with that.

-Raditz was already capable of moving faster than the speed of light, at a power level of 1,200, so rounding it off to the speed of light and assuming power translates directly to speed, (and I haven't see anything that gives any indication it doesn't) Goku at 1,000,000 should be able to move more than 833 times faster than the speed of light (this is why the instant transmission "turn into a ball of light" mistranslation doesn't make sense). Calculate that based on the same multiplication as the ones given for the various Super Saiyan forms given in the video (I have no idea where they got any of those numbers, and all of these forms except perhaps for Super Saiyan 4 also become more powerful since the initial transformation besides) Goku's speed is 208250 times faster than the speed of light.

-With the above, on speed alone Goku would far outclass Superman. The gravity formula they use for strength is also completely off but also unfortunately the numbers get far too unwieldy for me to be able to work with. Suffice to say, if he wanted to Goku could destroy the entire Earth with less effort than it would take one of us to lift a finger long before he ever hit base Super Saiyan. Whether he could move it I have no idea, but I don't doubt it.

Then there's the whole "Saiyans grow stronger as they fight" thing that throws off any possible calculations that could be had.

Quite frankly, even at Superman's most ludicrously powerful Goku could beat Superman with a flick of his finger at his most powerful.

That said, I like the animation (I wish the video games of either franchise could pull this kind of fighting off) so I like the video overall.

Saltyk:

One, they state that Superman thinks the buildings are more important than him. So, why would he do anything to destroy the Earth? Death Battle is pretty good about keeping them in character, stating that they only remove a character's "no killing" rule if it would come into conflict in order to keep things fair. But they don't remove the character's other moral or philosophical beliefs.

Goku also wouldn't try to blast somebody who didn't want to fight, and unless there was something at stake Goku also wouldn't try to fight against someone he already knows is far stronger than he is too, he'd train until he could beat them first.

immortalfrieza:

-Raditz was already capable of moving faster than the speed of light,

Raditz was not nearly close to the speed of light. Google it.

Anoni Mus:

immortalfrieza:

-Raditz was already capable of moving faster than the speed of light,

Raditz was not nearly close to the speed of light. Google it.

I don't need to.

Stated by Piccolo:

Piccolo: "He(Raditz) dodged it (the special beam cannon) he's faster than... the speed of light!

Speeds in DBZ are actually pretty difficult to accurately judge because naturally the show slows them down, otherwise they'd move too fast for the viewer to actually see them. Either way, Super Saiyan 4 is much much faster than the speed of light regardless.

immortalfrieza:

Anoni Mus:

immortalfrieza:

-Raditz was already capable of moving faster than the speed of light,

Raditz was not nearly close to the speed of light. Google it.

I don't need to.

Stated by Piccolo:

Piccolo: "He(Raditz) dodged it (the special beam cannon) he's faster than... the speed of light!

Error in translation I bet.
Hiperbole probably.

Anoni Mus:

immortalfrieza:

Anoni Mus:

Raditz was not nearly close to the speed of light. Google it.

I don't need to.

Stated by Piccolo:

Piccolo: "He(Raditz) dodged it (the special beam cannon) he's faster than... the speed of light!

Error in translation I bet.
Hiperbole probably.

Maybe. I think the biggest problem with either of these characters is that they and their universe are filled with plot holes and their power is very inconsistent. For instance, sometimes Superman will strain lifting up a car or truck or something, then later goes and lifts up an entire island, and the reverse, Goku will lift up a rock the size of a small mountain with relative ease with his Ki alone (while he was still injured I might add) then have his Super Saiyan 4 form have trouble lifting up a street intersection.

The biggest problem of all though, is that any calculations of either character make assumptions that the laws of physics in the DC and DBZ universes are the same as the ones in ours, or even each other's. DBZ Earth could already have gravity a dozen times higher (thus 100x would be 1,200x) than ours or DC Earth, and the opposite could also be true, and that's just one example. Since both universes show feats and technology that is impossible in our universe, it's not only likely but damn near certain that the laws of physics are VERY different.

this was the better done one in comparison to others, though it was quite clear who would win. Superman is far stronger than SonGoku (which was my favourite, i dislike superman). What would be a quite actual contender would be Dr. Manhattan. he is basically a god that can reassemble himself on a subatomic level and can control matter with his mind. try beating that superman.

immortalfrieza:
Since both universes show feats and technology that is impossible in our universe, it's not only likely but damn near certain that the laws of physics are VERY different.

Well the young superman universe was quite tame technology wise till the writers got out of hand and tried to invent a stronger opponent every issue to put superman in "danger".

Strazdas:
this was the better done one in comparison to others, though it was quite clear who would win. Superman is far stronger than SonGoku (which was my favourite, i dislike superman). What would be a quite actual contender would be Dr. Manhattan. he is basically a god that can reassemble himself on a subatomic level and can control matter with his mind. try beating that superman.

immortalfrieza:
Since both universes show feats and technology that is impossible in our universe, it's not only likely but damn near certain that the laws of physics are VERY different.

Well the young superman universe was quite tame technology wise till the writers got out of hand and tried to invent a stronger opponent every issue to put superman in "danger".

Damn it... my reply post got ate.

To sum it up though, there's always been plenty of tech and bizarre biology in both the DCU and Dragonball universes not to mention magic that's incredibly expensive and difficult at best and outright impossible to pull off in our universe.

Wow, So comprehensive! I'm a huge fan of the deathbattle series, i've seen every one but this was the longest and best! I love goku but i never knew superman was so badass! I take it you didn't include the dragonballs because i imagine superman has died a fair few times anyway! I love the premise for the fight - at first i did wonder why they would fight, being such heroes and all. Also loved the bit where goku destroys the kryptonite - he would SO do that!

all in all great vid - keep em coming!

if you take suggestions how about god vs the devil? or the guy from "sword of the stranger" vs Mitsurugi from the soul calibur series?

Love this video. I do think Superman would win regardless of what feats and whatnot they threw into Goku's side of things, there's just no way to counter the fact Superman's power is limitless.

Plus, if the fight did go down to Dragon Fist meets Infinite Mass Punch, even if Goku survived the Earth exploding, he wouldn't survive being in space with no oxygen.

This is why i find superman so boring as a character as his powers are ridiculous and he can not have a one on one equal fight most of the time.

Also if superman thought Goku was going to destroy the town why did he leave wouldn't it turn in to the same situation against doomsday.He was too weak to fight but couldn't leave his city to recharge because doomsday would have leveled the place.

It was thrilling and amazing. And in the end, Superman drew unlimited strength from his own endless pool of lazy writing.

The Great JT:
Love this video. I do think Superman would win regardless of what feats and whatnot they threw into Goku's side of things, there's just no way to counter the fact Superman's power is limitless.

Plus, if the fight did go down to Dragon Fist meets Infinite Mass Punch, even if Goku survived the Earth exploding, he wouldn't survive being in space with no oxygen.

Not really. All he'd need to do would be to use his instant transmission.

Anywho. My issue here is that they're comparing apples with oranges. Superman relies on strength while DBZ characters rely on Ki. And Ki works very differently. (This also makes all the calculations regarding strength pretty much pointless)

generals3:

The Great JT:
Love this video. I do think Superman would win regardless of what feats and whatnot they threw into Goku's side of things, there's just no way to counter the fact Superman's power is limitless.

Plus, if the fight did go down to Dragon Fist meets Infinite Mass Punch, even if Goku survived the Earth exploding, he wouldn't survive being in space with no oxygen.

Not really. All he'd need to do would be to use his instant transmission.

Anywho. My issue here is that they're comparing apples with oranges. Superman relies on strength while DBZ characters rely on Ki. And Ki works very differently. (This also makes all the calculations regarding strength pretty much pointless)

All the Screw Attack videos I've seen so far always have a clear bias one way or the other. They all have fighter who's strong, and other fighter who's so much stronger he could beat the other without hardly having to try (Cloud Vs. Link, Peach Vs. Princess Zelda, Link and Peach... win. ...Seriously now!?!) and the weaker one somehow wins despite them having no chance whatsoever objectively. This is just yet another example.

I have yet to see them actually pit fighters against each other that are actually of comparative ability.

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