Escapist Expo: Im Mad about X: Whats Wrong with Gamer Culture

I'm Mad about X: What's Wrong with Gamer Culture

Sexist developers, publisher malaise, the removal of used games - in this panel we'll not only talk about everything that fans the flames of 4chan, but we'll make it funny too! We'll discuss why it's so easy to be mad about something on the internet, especially about something we love like games. Our panel will tackle these tough issues, approach them from different angles and hopefully not end the hour by screaming at each other or you.

Participants:
Bob Chipman
Gavin Dunne
Jim Sterling
Mark J Kline

Watch Video

Why is Dr. Kline so far away? (Does Jim stink of shit?)
Gavin is so totally right about MRA and other groups. JUST WALK AWAY.

Also where is that damn Hour of Love? You know it's the one we want to see, Escapist!

Really, I wish we could get back to punching people when they insult you or say something too far.
I think that a way to give someone an electric shock, only a small one if they say something you really don't like, stupid comments and angry things would cut down on this.

Jim really is the best. Just the best. If only more people would think like him we'd have such a nicer gaming community overall.

Kakulukia:
Why is Dr. Kline so far away? (Does Jim stink of shit?)
Gavin is so totally right about MRA and other groups. JUST WALK AWAY.

Also where is that damn Hour of Love? You know it's the one we want to see, Escapist!

Whenever gamers used to whine about stuff that really isn't a big deal, because they've whined about everything for 35 years, they were ignored.

Now everyone that posts a youtube video and says something is an outrage we have to take them seriously.

THAT is what's wrong with gaming culture (at the moment)

Imp Emissary:

Kakulukia:
Why is Dr. Kline so far away? (Does Jim stink of shit?)
Gavin is so totally right about MRA and other groups. JUST WALK AWAY.

Also where is that damn Hour of Love? You know it's the one we want to see, Escapist!

Now I really want to see it. GET ON IT HAMSTERS! SPIN DAT WHEEL!

Kakulukia:
Why is Dr. Kline so far away? (Does Jim stink of shit?)
Gavin is so totally right about MRA and other groups. JUST WALK AWAY.

Also where is that damn Hour of Love? You know it's the one we want to see, Escapist!

The only problem I see is they don't want to be like Japanese men and become herbivores
Its like the game of thrones. You win or you die.

Actually never really watched anything with Jim Sterling until this video, which I only watched to see Gavin and Bob; am now going back to watch Jim's show.

In terms of fighting games, I don't think it's fair to draw the parallel that the behavior of top fighting game esport professionals reflects the majority of players in any way.

I grew up going to lots of arcades and I met some of the friendliest people around there.
Granted, I'm Canadian.

Kakulukia:
Why is Dr. Kline so far away?

Because when we sit too close to him his silky smooth voice causes us to melt.

I don't think I've ever nodded so vigorously for a whole hour. This was easily my favourite panel. If only everyone could watch this, especially when Jim and Bob mentioned how it's important to speak up when you disagree with something, and to not leave it unchallenged. I've frequented many a sexism thread where there's far too many replies saying "oh no, not this again" or "get over it". Great panel!

Eh. Preaching to the choir.

Any one of those angry idiot gamers give anyone shit where there don't need to be none, then the only reaction they deserve is an even angrier punch to their stupid face. Eye for an eye, nothing wrong about that.

For some reason, the talk of gamer culture made me think of this.

Tukadian:
Actually never really watched anything with Jim Sterling until this video, which I only watched to see Gavin and Bob; am now going back to watch Jim's show.

When he talks about the gaming industry, he can be pretty damning. When he talks about social justice issues, he misses the mark entirely. I recommend a LOT of salt grains while maintaining your own objective analysis.

Gindil:

Tukadian:
Actually never really watched anything with Jim Sterling until this video, which I only watched to see Gavin and Bob; am now going back to watch Jim's show.

When he talks about the gaming industry, he can be pretty damning. When he talks about social justice issues, he misses the mark entirely. I recommend a LOT of salt grains while maintaining your own objective analysis.

I completely agree. Pretty much every single thing he says about the game industry makes me go "yes of course! if developers and publishers listened to this man the world we be a better place!" and pretty much every video he has done on social justice issues makes me groan.

Nurb:
Whenever gamers used to whine about stuff that really isn't a big deal, because they've whined about everything for 35 years, they were ignored.

Now everyone that posts a youtube video and says something is an outrage we have to take them seriously.

THAT is what's wrong with gaming culture (at the moment)

Robert Marrs:

Gindil:

When he talks about the gaming industry, he can be pretty damning. When he talks about social justice issues, he misses the mark entirely. I recommend a LOT of salt grains while maintaining your own objective analysis.

I completely agree. Pretty much every single thing he says about the game industry makes me go "yes of course! if developers and publishers listened to this man the world we be a better place!" and pretty much every video he has done on social justice issues makes me groan.

Did you watch the video?

All it takes is a dismissive comment to the outrageous youtube video that DESERVES IT, or even just a thumbs down. By being silent/indifferent as is mentioned in the talk, you essentially become party or compliant in the wrongdoing. There is no impartiality. By being silent you don't exist and therefore, since no one disagrees with the crazy people *everyone* associated with that group is crazy.

He mentions this in the talk. For years I've never felt the problem is the people who are misogynists, make death threats or are just nasty in the gaming community. It's the people who don't rein in or condemn them that mean I would NEVER want to consider myself a gamer, and am ashamed of playing video games. Who wants to be in an industry where the only communication in a FPS or a Moba is hate and vitriol from the one assfag?

I was going to put this in the toxic video but I thought 'what is the point?' I still do. I don't WANT to be a gamer, I want to game but I don't want to be associated with any 'culture' it may have. And I find the assumption that internet=anonymity to be a pathetic excuse for essentially lazy behaviour, or not defending the right choice. I browse many areas of the internet and each area is different. The drug forums are some of the nicest places to be, everyone is very positive and their video game threads... wow, now THEY love video games. I've never met so many positive people. The computer freaks/overclockers, the knife enthusiast forums, science enthusiasts, the martial arts forums, even the Magic Gathering community is pretty respectable, I don't see any real trolling there AT ALL. No 'lol, you noob', people actively try to bring new people in... and if there is an asshat or troll (there usually is), he gets moderated to nonexistance, ignored or dismissed by the people who want new players in their hobby. Very welcoming. You ask a question, even a stupid, ignorant or common question you get it answered.

No people use the 'oh all the internet is like that' excuse but I think the only people who think that don't GO to other sites. Video games, the large majority of its associated community centres (barring reddit) are a fetid mess of unpleasant people and indifferent nobodies. I do know some nice communities, DayZ has a pretty nice community (from what I know), and I do know some very retro RPG sites that have some great people in them... Some of them also proudly don't consider themselves gamers, just play the small group of games they enjoyed from over a decade ago.

Gaming has a real message problem, you've got all these people treating Anita Sarkeesian as some sort of second coming of the anti-christ and... Who's defending her? She's just a feminist who doesn't like the sexism inherent in the gaming industry. Same with the bioware employee who got death threats... for writing bad stories (where Biowares stories THAT good)? Who DEFENDED her? Jim Sterling did and he condemned those responsible. And by letting those people be asshats frequently you ENABLED the shitty opinion gaming receives. Anyone who says 'they weren't involved'... I read these forums, most of you are probably guilty of acquiescence to *something*. I know I am, I am just aware that by not stopping the message I'm inherently part of the problem.

People can act like the gaming community 'isn't that bad' and 'its an internet problem' and 'people are so PC nowadays'. But if you go go beyond this community, the only ones on the internet I can think of that are worse involve American Politics.

Well I had to say a *something*, (A LOT of something), because... I don't want to represent what anyone who says these sort of things represent. But that's enough I think. When you disagree with the outlook of most of a community, it's a community you don't belong in anyway, and I want no part of this one.

Really enjoyed this panel. Certainly one of the best of the show.

where is the Hour of Love: Part 2 the revenge....

kklawm:

All it takes is a dismissive comment to the outrageous youtube video that DESERVES IT, or even just a thumbs down. By being silent/indifferent as is mentioned in the talk, you essentially become party or compliant in the wrongdoing. There is no impartiality. By being silent you don't exist and therefore, since no one disagrees with the crazy people *everyone* associated with that group is crazy.

You're setting up an "Us vs them" dichotomy which means if you don't speak for who you perceive as "oppressed" then that's just as bad as saying nothing at all. This is a form of special pleading fallacy which is not helpful to arguments and helps to allow people to dismiss criticisms and analysis that they don't agree with.

He mentions this in the talk. For years I've never felt the problem is the people who are misogynists, make death threats or are just nasty in the gaming community. It's the people who don't rein in or condemn them that mean I would NEVER want to consider myself a gamer, and am ashamed of playing video games. Who wants to be in an industry where the only communication in a FPS or a Moba is hate and vitriol from the one assfag?

And the problem with Jim is his inherent bias in social issues where he ignores blatant corruption to come to the conclusions that he does. Which is a bigger problem? A troll saying mean things, or a reporter that fails to inform gamers while talking down to them?

I was going to put this in the toxic video but I thought 'what is the point?' I still do. I don't WANT to be a gamer, I want to game but I don't want to be associated with any 'culture' it may have. And I find the assumption that internet=anonymity to be a pathetic excuse for essentially lazy behaviour, or not defending the right choice.

The hell does all this mean? You think everyone that talks about these issues is just lazy gamers where if they don't agree with you, they're automatically against you? Wow...

I browse many areas of the internet and each area is different. The drug forums are some of the nicest places to be, everyone is very positive and their video game threads... wow, now THEY love video games. I've never met so many positive people. The computer freaks/overclockers, the knife enthusiast forums, science enthusiasts, the martial arts forums, even the Magic Gathering community is pretty respectable, I don't see any real trolling there AT ALL. No 'lol, you noob', people actively try to bring new people in... and if there is an asshat or troll (there usually is), he gets moderated to nonexistance, ignored or dismissed by the people who want new players in their hobby. Very welcoming. You ask a question, even a stupid, ignorant or common question you get it answered.

Ah, so you look everywhere but if it comes to one or two gaming forums that's where all the vitriol is? You should have seen the forums on Silk Road. That one was pretty wild and people said a lot of things good or bad.

No people use the 'oh all the internet is like that' excuse but I think the only people who think that don't GO to other sites. Video games, the large majority of its associated community centres (barring reddit) are a fetid mess of unpleasant people and indifferent nobodies. I do know some nice communities, DayZ has a pretty nice community (from what I know), and I do know some very retro RPG sites that have some great people in them... Some of them also proudly don't consider themselves gamers, just play the small group of games they enjoyed from over a decade ago.

Again, special pleading. Just because you visit a few forums doesn't necessarily make all gamers to be whiners and assholes based on merely anecdotal experiences. LoL players have different reasons for being mean compared to TF2 players compared to other games and it's quite a chore to look into every last community and discern who's nice or naughty.

Gaming has a real message problem, you've got all these people treating Anita Sarkeesian as some sort of second coming of the anti-christ and... Who's defending her?

The gaming press who ignore anything that hurts their narrative while not even looking into the criticisms against her.

She's just a feminist who doesn't like the sexism inherent in the gaming industry.

She has yet to prove that sexism exists in the gaming industry. The only thing she proved is that she's of the opinion that rescuing women is a bad thing. Why should anyone care about her flawed opinion with nothing backing it up?

Same with the bioware employee who got death threats... for writing bad stories (where Biowares stories THAT good)?

Read the story again. She got those death threats two years after receiving them and people were criticizing Hapler's ability to write since 2006. The criticisms against her was in how shoddy she wrote romance in gaming.

Who DEFENDED her?

The satire of Hapler began in 2006 when she did the interview saying she wants to skip gameplay for fanfiction romance. People were mocking her for that for quite some time until Mass Effect 2 I believe. You have to get the story straight if all you're going to do is mislead the audience.

Jim Sterling did and he condemned those responsible.

No he didn't. He just got a press release from EA and ignored the comments until they were of value to dismiss as trollish.

And by letting those people be asshats frequently you ENABLED the shitty opinion gaming receives. Anyone who says 'they weren't involved'... I read these forums, most of you are probably guilty of acquiescence to *something*. I know I am, I am just aware that by not stopping the message I'm inherently part of the problem.

Not really a good idea in accusing people of being part of a conspiracy. Makes you look loonie...

People can act like the gaming community 'isn't that bad' and 'its an internet problem' and 'people are so PC nowadays'. But if you go go beyond this community, the only ones on the internet I can think of that are worse involve American Politics.

Because it really isn't. You're just looking for things to complain about then setting it up so that when someone has a criticism you can dismiss them under being a troll. How the hell is that discourse?

Well I had to say a *something*, (A LOT of something), because... I don't want to represent what anyone who says these sort of things represent. But that's enough I think. When you disagree with the outlook of most of a community, it's a community you don't belong in anyway, and I want no part of this one.

Ok. But whining on your way out doesn't make you a lot of friends when you have nothing to say but inaccurate complaints.

The problem with people like Sarkeesian is that her arguments are based entirely on conjecture and weak evidence, and she uses this to define cultural trends. She makes too many rash generalisations with her assessments. Watch Thunderf00t's assessment, as he explains it far better than I could.

At east GTA IV is no longer top rated on Metacritic. Althought its sad to see it above the Portal and Half Life games.

Liek dis if u cri erytim

 

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