Zero Punctuation: Beyond: Two Souls

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JenSeven:
I can thankfully say that I have never played any of David Cage's games.
I looked at them and read about them for a bit and they all just seem ... bad ... in a weird way.

Same here. Everyone of his games look like a movie, especially when you've got Willem Dafoe, but it lacks any good qualities to draw you in. Even a bad movie like Street Fighter has something (I.E. Raul Julia's over-the-top performance) but David Cage's games only have the foul smelling taint of a bad auteur who is too much in love with himself, his "talent", and his obsession with better graphics.

I'm quite glad this game isn't very good with all the pretentiousness that was attached to the making of it.

I kinda feel the same whenever a Hollywood name is expected to be the only selling point to a game. It's all "stand back you useful amateurs and let us show you what can be done by people who know how stories should REALLY be told"... though I do like Ellen Page.

Despite Ellen Page I am still just a rat in a cage. Priceless.

All right I'm just gonna come right out and say it. With the exception of all the controversy around the Last of Us and this game, I have no fraking idea who the fuck Ellen Page is. Can someone please tell me what the big broo ha ha is? How come so many people love her and how come so many people here hate her?

Also there's a lot of David Cage hatred going on in here. I know there was that whole Emotions Emotions Emotions thing, but what did he do to get people to hate him THIS much? I thought the general conscientious was that Heavy Rain was decent at the very least. Even Yahtzee liked it.

Actually ten years ago Valve was bragging about the facial animations in Half Life 2.

Looks like nobody plays videogames for emotions anymore. Just for the shooting.

Is Beyond: Two Souls disappointing in its gameplay? Oh yes, VERY disappointing.

Is Beyond: Two Souls satisfying in its story and emotions it can convey? Oh yes, VERY much so.

People play stuff like Japanese visual novels all the time, and what we have here is - a much, much, muuuch higher budget visual novel, with a more serious plot.

I absolutely loved Heavy Rain because it had excellent characters and atmosphere. I didn't even care the gameplay was so very simple. I like Beyond: Two Souls a lot, but it does feel less effective in its narration than Heavy rain was.

Hey, people loved Dragon's Lair, and still do, since they keep re-releasing it. And Dragon's Lair gameplay sucks. But it's a game with a very high quality and an excellent artistic value and.... gameplay or not, it's very entertaining.

Heck, people play mmorpg and those things have a much worse gameplay than David Cage's games, and they don't even have a compelling story or excellent graphics attached to it.

In short: I understand the shortcomings of David Cage's videogames, and I realize they're not even quite videogames. But I still prefer to play Beyond: Two Souls than yet another generic shooter.

erttheking:
All right I'm just gonna come right out and say it. With the exception of all the controversy around the Last of Us and this game, I have no fraking idea who the fuck Ellen Page is. Can someone please tell me what the big broo ha ha is? How come so many people love her and how come so many people here hate her?

She's a pretty famous actress. Depending on what kind of movies you are into, you'd probably recognize her most from either Juno or Inception. People probably hate her because they view her as overrated or because of The Last of Us controversy, but I'd hardly consider her a horrible actress, just not a particularly memorable one for any good or bad reason.

OT: Maybe it is due to my hatred of David Cage and his attitude, but I don't think I've laughed at a Zero Punctuation episode this hard in a while.

The demo did not impress me, at least with Heavy Rain I could move somewhat more, with the choices having more impact on the derivative plot than here. Maybe when its cheaper but I tend not to spend over 10 on a film let alone 40...

Zachary Amaranth:
Beyond: Two Souls is one of those games where a sequel name will be awkward if it does happen. Like Army of Two Two.

Then there was Two Worlds II, which was a real title.

I haven't played this game or any David cage game so my opinion is kind of useless, but to me it seems like he really wants to explore the potential of video game storytelling and get away from the traditional skill based challenges that dominate games, but he just isn't skilled enough to pull it off and his games end up failing as both a game and movie.
If it wasn't for that apparently nude Ellen page shower scene thing, I would feel sorry for the guy.

Yossarian1507:
*Checks the review, review comments and comments for "Nude Ellen Page case"*

Yup, just as I suspected. Apparently I'm the only person in the world who actually liked this game. Huh.

That said, I haven't played the game, but I don't really want to.

Not my cup of tea, and a lot of the criticisms of the game have turned me off to it.
I just think telling a story out of order is a bad idea.

That said, if ya like it, that's okay.

Funny show today Yahtzee. :D

OuendanCyrus:
Even though I didn't enjoy Heavy Rain too much, I definitely prefer that over Beyond. I agree with Yahtzee with every criticism he has with the game, and more.

Funny how everyone just calls Jodie "Ellen Page" now, they just can't be arsed. =p
See what you've done, David Cage?

(Still think Omikron: The Nomad Soul is Quantic Dream's best game)

Agreed, but that's likely because that game actually had real gameplay.

Conversely, I wanted my money back after "Ellen Page Variety Hour." It's a novelty worth a bargain bin purchase of $20-$30, and nothing more. Granted, I would like to see where the stories goes from the end (per the "epilogue"), but not at $60.

I always say that I would take a good storyline over good gameplay. However, that is assuming the storytelling isn't disjointed, and there's substantial gameplay to speak of.

I do like the game, yet I'm still disappointed. Heck, Dragon's Lair had more gameplay than this, and it was one giant QTE.

VanQ:
The thing that struck me about this game is it's almost exactly the game that Sarkeesian asked for. Less like a game and more like a movie. And what gameplay there is, make it easy as fuck. It even has a female protagonist. Dunno if I was the only one that noticed this but I expect to hear her gushing about it any day now.

that is not what Sarkeesian asked for. have you even seen her videos?! she also never said only good games have female protagonists. and quite frankly i imagine she would have a problem with using rape as a cheap way to make us feel sympathy for the protagonist (and rightfully so).

VanQ:
The thing that struck me about this game is it's almost exactly the game that Sarkeesian asked for. Less like a game and more like a movie. And what gameplay there is, make it easy as fuck. It even has a female protagonist. Dunno if I was the only one that noticed this but I expect to hear her gushing about it any day now.

Has Sarkessian ever talked about gameplay mechanics? Better stories maybe, but "better stories" isn't "all story no gameplay". If Sarkessian said everything that angry guys said she said, she would have a ton more videos.

Oh the smashing pumpkins reference made my day.

abort_user:

VanQ:
The thing that struck me about this game is it's almost exactly the game that Sarkeesian asked for. Less like a game and more like a movie. And what gameplay there is, make it easy as fuck. It even has a female protagonist. Dunno if I was the only one that noticed this but I expect to hear her gushing about it any day now.

that is not what Sarkeesian asked for. have you even seen her videos?! she also never said only good games have female protagonists. and quite frankly i imagine she would have a problem with using rape as a cheap way to make us feel sympathy for the protagonist (and rightfully so).

If you ask me, female protagonist = must be feminist = must be what Sarkeesian wanted!!

What a stupid way of thinking. :/

Hey, which makes me think, here's another thing Beyond did right:

1) making you feel the life of a 12 years old girl

2) making you feel the life of a rebellious teenager

3) making you feel the miracle of birth

All of these are 10000000x more difficult to pull out than "making you feel the life of a super space marine".

And all of these are 10000000x more controversial than GTA5. GTA5 controversial? They're just giving dumb teens the mindless "edgy" carnage they asked. Now, Beyond: Two Souls is a really controversial game, because it takes enormous guts to make a game in which you live a day in the life of a little girl. Oh, THAT is controversy, my dear, not any hot coffee mod.

This game seriously disappointed me. It's not especially bad it's just that the story is stupidly simple, not especially deep, and not particularly well written. It's a bunch of crying and hushed whispers about super serious business. Seriously, the crying got old really fast. Because Jodie always cries and always suffers, I'm not sure when I'm supposed to feel bad for her, so I decided to just not feel bad for her. It was just boring.

I just wish I could hear that things Aiden decided to say; "Hey, so I possessed that guy and murdered those two cops like you asked me to. I wasn't sure what to do with the guy after that so I just had him shoot himself.. so ya know, three families are now without fathers."

erttheking:
All right I'm just gonna come right out and say it. With the exception of all the controversy around the Last of Us and this game, I have no fraking idea who the fuck Ellen Page is. Can someone please tell me what the big broo ha ha is? How come so many people love her and how come so many people here hate her?

Also there's a lot of David Cage hatred going on in here. I know there was that whole Emotions Emotions Emotions thing, but what did he do to get people to hate him THIS much? I thought the general conscientious was that Heavy Rain was decent at the very least. Even Yahtzee liked it.

The first thing I remember Page being in was the Movie Juno.
http://www.teenidols4you.com/picture.html?g=Actors&pe=ellenpage&foto=554&act=1697&mv=2353&pic=235386
As for what she did after that? Eh, just go look on the wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Page

As for why people hate David Cage?

Well, yes there is the "Emotions" thing, but I have also heard he's got a VERY big ego.

One story I heard from Jim was when Cage was suppose to have an interview with Destructoid but they couldn't put it up because Cage just spent an hour complaining about how Jim gave Heavy Rain a 7 out of 10.

Imp Emissary:

erttheking:
All right I'm just gonna come right out and say it. With the exception of all the controversy around the Last of Us and this game, I have no fraking idea who the fuck Ellen Page is. Can someone please tell me what the big broo ha ha is? How come so many people love her and how come so many people here hate her?

Also there's a lot of David Cage hatred going on in here. I know there was that whole Emotions Emotions Emotions thing, but what did he do to get people to hate him THIS much? I thought the general conscientious was that Heavy Rain was decent at the very least. Even Yahtzee liked it.

The first thing I remember Page being in was the Movie Juno.
http://www.teenidols4you.com/picture.html?g=Actors&pe=ellenpage&foto=554&act=1697&mv=2353&pic=235386
As for what she did after that? Eh, just go look on the wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Page

As for why people hate David Cage?

Well, yes there is the "Emotions" thing, but I have also heard he's got a VERY big ego.

One story I heard from Jim was when Cage was suppose to have an interview with Destructoid but they couldn't put it up because Cage just spent an hour complaining about how Jim gave Heavy Rain a 7 out of 10.

The only one of those I've seen was Inception it seems. Can't say I cared one bit for the pile of sophmoric blather so it's a bit of a blur to me, aside from Edith Piaf. Even Nolans inane movies can't ruin Edith Piaf. Was Ellen Page that girl who was like some sort of wizard kid the Leonardo found at some school?

I'm really put off by Ellen Page being in this game the way she is. I don't mind her in films and I wouldn't care about a voice over but just putting a celebrity in like this just strikes me as creepy and kinda egotistical. LA Noire did something similar but the character was still clearly Cole Phelps and not that dude out of Mad Men. For me this is a bit like making a cartoon of yourself and then voicing it. It might work for a comedy but a serious story? Why?

From what little I saw of a friend playing this game, the writing was horrible.

It wasn't that bad at first, but then it got to the birthday party and I just had to roll my eyes because of how stupid it was. Kids can be horrible little monsters yeah, but that was just silly. "Show us your super murder ghost powers!" followed shortly by "A book!? BUUUURN HEEEEER!".

Not to mention how stereotypically over the top the kids were acting before that. It was like a cheesy 80's sitcom where the writers have no idea how to write teenagers properly.

The drama feels so forced that it's cringe worthy. It's like someone keeps running up to you and screaming "FEEL SOMETHING" into your ear.

Tank207:
From what little I saw of a friend playing this game, the writing was horrible.

It wasn't that bad at first, but then it got to the birthday party and I just had to roll my eyes because of how stupid it was. Kids can be horrible little monsters yeah, but that was just silly. "Show us your super murder ghost powers!" followed shortly by "A book!? BUUUURN HEEEEER!". Not to mention how stereotypically over the top the kids were acting before that.

Has it ever occurred to you that, you know, the characters were INTENDED to be stereotypical?

Despite Ellen Page I'm still just a David Beige?

rhodo:

Tank207:
From what little I saw of a friend playing this game, the writing was horrible.

It wasn't that bad at first, but then it got to the birthday party and I just had to roll my eyes because of how stupid it was. Kids can be horrible little monsters yeah, but that was just silly. "Show us your super murder ghost powers!" followed shortly by "A book!? BUUUURN HEEEEER!". Not to mention how stereotypically over the top the kids were acting before that.

Has it ever occurred to you that, you know, the characters were INTENDED to be stereotypical?

Whether it was intentional or not, it was still beyond cringeworthy. Like I said in the edit of my post, it felt like I was watching a bad 80's sitcom where the writers didn't know how to write kids. It was so forced to the point of comedy.

Yahtzee, you charismatic stallion, this is your funniest review yet! The name changes, the riffs on David Cage, and summing up what I thought would be wrong about the thing I hesitate to call a "game". I had a bad feeling about it back in E3 2012, the one with all those trailers for games that revealed something between "jack squat" and "bugger all" about their content. I got the same idea from The Last of Us, trying to be the "Oscar-bait" of video games. I know Yahtzee's a major proponent of games as art, but Cage seems to be all about this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueArtIsIncomprehensible

Now it's a competition to see who's the creepier game auteur yammering on about EEEEMOOTIOOOOOOOOOOOOONS: Cage or Peter Molyneaux (I have no idea how to spell that).

Passing the controller around and making fun of the game is how I both co-oped AND enjoyed Heavy Rain.

rhodo:

Tank207:
From what little I saw of a friend playing this game, the writing was horrible.

It wasn't that bad at first, but then it got to the birthday party and I just had to roll my eyes because of how stupid it was. Kids can be horrible little monsters yeah, but that was just silly. "Show us your super murder ghost powers!" followed shortly by "A book!? BUUUURN HEEEEER!". Not to mention how stereotypically over the top the kids were acting before that.

Has it ever occurred to you that, you know, the characters were INTENDED to be stereotypical?

Something being intentional=/=something being good.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that something you like might have a few problems.

It feels like David Cage has become the Video Game Equivalent of M. Night Shyamalan, so it's only a matter of Time before he makes "The Happening" of Video games and the world rejoices at the unintentional comedy.

OT: I don't think I will ever pick up the game now. With everything everybody has said, plus the demo I played, Yahtzee has sort of solidified it for me. I know naysayers will come out of the woodwork to defend Cage's game, but honestly, with Indigo Prophecy, he at least had something resembling artistic control, and it wasn't that bad, despite what many people say about it.

Heavy Rain is where the relationship soured the more I played it, but it was fun for what I played.

Beyond: Two Souls, sadly, feels like it sort of supports what many say of the film industry: It's not the special effects budget you have (read: Emotions your characters can give off), it's the story.

What we need now is somebody who can utilize the tech, something I think Cage has proven well enough, and give way to a better scriptwriter, before Cage embarrasses himself further.

I don't mind bad reviews but why do they all go on and on about David Cage as if he and he alone made the game. It just shows bias to be honest. If you don't like Cage, don't review his shit. Easy.

@the people who watched gameplay videos

Don't be stupid. It's not that type of game.

@the people that have actually played the game

You're right, it's not as bad as the people that hate David Cage make it out to be.

Lastly, TWD has the same amount of not actual gameplay gameplay and everyone eats that shit up. Perhaps I'm the only one that could give a shit about the girl or what everyone else raves about but the game is just not that good. *everyone notices or didn't notices this comment*

Zachary Amaranth:
Beyond: Two Souls is one of those games where a sequel name will be awkward if it does happen. Like Army of Two Two.

Beyond: Two Souls 2: Some Souls we Found in the Hedge: Electric Boogaloo?

If that ain't colon cancer I don't know what is.

On a just barely related note, I would love it if Yahtzee ended up with the game being "such utter colon semi-colon pound sign exclamation mark...see, I just verbally censored the word 'shite'".

hazabaza1:

There's nothing wrong with admitting that something you like might have a few problems.

You're preaching to the choir, man. ;)

If you read just a few posts above (look up, in this same thread!), I just pointed out I think the gameplay of Beyond is very poor, and the game is pretty much a visual novel with a much muuch higher budget.

I still think there was nothing wrong with that scene and the way it was presented. In fact, it was one of my favorite parts: simple, immediate, archetypal, and effective. Made me almost wish the story went for a Carrie retelling.

shogunblade:

OT: I don't think I will ever pick up the game now. With everything everybody has said,

Can't you just ignore what other people said? And if you can't, then are you just intentionally ignoring the high scores the game got together with the low scores?

I really wish people could decide for themselves. When the first reviews I saw of Beyond were negative (5/10), my intention to play the game didn't change in the slightest. When the other reviews i saw were positive (5/10), my intention to play the game didn't change in the slightest.

GTA5 got amazing perfect scores, and I think that game is crap. Because I made my own decision, no matter what other might tell me.

So, what is wrong with me, I wonder. Why don't I get influenced by scores and group-mind like everyone else. :/

So we can all agree the game is bad and sony just lost sh*tload of money by paying this small boy they call Ellen and the rest of the cast, not mentioning all that expensive motion-capture. I think David Cage may soon lose his job :) Well at least it is going to be emotional!

Piecewise:

DVS BSTrD:
I'm starting to wonder if David Beige has ever actually talked to a real woman before.

This review is actually a lot like trying to play through any of David Beige's games: Soul crushing.

Did you know that before going to talk to Ellen Page about appearing in his very shitty game that he compiled a massive scrapbook of pictures of her as a child he found on the internet? And that he took it with him to their interview.

http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/david-cage-went-crazy-for-ellen-page/

This makes the fact that he actually rendered her model completely naked and extremely detailed for the shower scene all the creepier.

Then again, his last female character spent the entire game appealing to a variety of fetishes and saying "you go girl" to herself so we didn't have very far to fall.

I did not know about that. I mean, seriously, that's serial killer behaviour.

I was on the fence for a while about buying this game. But when I saw a brief clip of naked rendered Ellen Page on Youtube I was like: nope! I couldn't believe he hyped the game up for having such a "famous actress" only to reduce her to just another one of his sexy fan-wank renders. Now we know why he truly wants all those polygons.

His portrayal of women is absolutely appalling; naive at best and downright disgusting at worst. It's more akin to the daydreaming machinations of a young teenager's perverted mind. The fact that he based his entire game around nothing more than images of an actress he didn't even know says a lot about the game and the way his mind works.

VanQ:
The thing that struck me about this game is it's almost exactly the game that Sarkeesian asked for. Less like a game and more like a movie. And what gameplay there is, make it easy as fuck. It even has a female protagonist. Dunno if I was the only one that noticed this but I expect to hear her gushing about it any day now.

I like how we're just making stuff up about Sarkeesian now.

"Look, AS is entitled to her opinion that all buildings over 5 stories should be painted bright red, I just don't think that it would be financially feasible. Not to mention it would be a bit of an eyesore."

Piecewise:
Did you know that before going to talk to Ellen Page about appearing in his very shitty game that he compiled a massive scrapbook of pictures of her as a child he found on the internet? And that he took it with him to their interview.

http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/david-cage-went-crazy-for-ellen-page/

This makes the fact that he actually rendered her model completely naked and extremely detailed for the shower scene all the creepier.

Then again, his last female character spent the entire game appealing to a variety of fetishes and saying "you go girl" to herself so we didn't have very far to fall.

I thought Matt and Pat from Two Best Friends play made that up, Holy shit!

Anyway, I came thinking it'd be a typical Dahvid Cahge emohtians "game" and lo and behold! I was proven right!

rhodo:

shogunblade:

OT: I don't think I will ever pick up the game now. With everything everybody has said,

Can't you just ignore what other people said? And if you can't, then are you just intentionally ignoring the high scores the game got together with the low scores?

I really wish people could decide for themselves. When the first reviews I saw of Beyond were negative (5/10), my intention to play the game didn't change in the slightest. When the other reviews i saw were positive (5/10), my intention to play the game didn't change in the slightest.

GTA5 got amazing perfect scores, and I think that game is crap. Because I made my own decision, no matter what other might tell me.

So, what is wrong with me, I wonder. Why don't I get influenced by scores and group-mind like everyone else. :/

I haven't played GTA 5 and I'm not really eager to play it, and I only own a PS3. By not playing this game, I'm only disappointing myself, I realize that. I may still pick it up one day (I was being hyperbolic), but I'm not willing to play it for the price it is at now, not when the demo left me quite dissatisfied with what the full game could potentially be.

Addressing your point on thinking for myself: A lot of my favorite games, and even some movies, are the ones nobody really cares for. I do think for myself, I'm just saying when the majority and I agree (for whatever my opinion is worth based on the demo I played), That doesn't make me want to pick up that game to try to assume they are just wrong.

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