Escapist Expo: You Game Like A Girl: Tales of Trolls and White Knights

You Game Like A Girl: Tales of Trolls and White Knights

Women in gaming and "fake nerd girls" have become a topic of much debate recently. For every voice raised in favor of critically addressing the climate for women in gaming and nerdom, a dozen more cry out in defensive, silencing backlash. This panel offers a discussion of these issues, not from the outside, but from the inside, bringing together five women from across the nerd community who have faced trolls and white knights and lived to tell their tales. This panel will also discuss positive strategies to create a safer, more supportive community for women at cons and in the nerd community at large.

Participants:
Anja Keister
ZP Keister
Iris Explosion
Stella Chuu
Shoshana Kessock

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Women find gay men attractive?

Anyway, I agree that movies and games should stop featuring characters who wear makeup or odd clothing for no good reason.

I don't recall guys cringing during James Bond movies because they saw some abs or body shots. I especially don't remember hearing anything about it over the web. In fact, Until I just thought about it, it had never occurred to me. You say that's what [some] women want to see and yet I could still just as easily call it a power fantasy for men.

My point is, it is all subjective, I or anyone could take a person and make a fantasy out of them, female or not.

Sofus:
Women find gay men attractive?

Lots of guys find lesbians attractive :P

Sofus:
Women find gay men attractive?

Anyway, I agree that movies and games should stop featuring characters who wear makeup or odd clothing for no good reason.

Oh yes, especially when they have their big hands all over each other >:) I mean whats sexier than one hot guy? a hot guy touching another one, obviously.

Very good panel. Figured I'd listen to a bit of it at work this morning, but I've just finished it and enjoyed it. Being able to lay out all the points (I won't say arguments) that women have in with and around the industry without interruptions was good. A lot of the discussions that go on here start off defensive because while you can't get interrupted on a forum... you still feel like you can be and you have to lay everything out quickly. Here, everyone could spend time on their points and nothing felt hostile.

As I grew up in the 80's and 90's as a gamer, I was nodding to so many of these arguments. I wasn't allowed to join the boys playing Magic at recess because I was a girl. Thankfully our cousin let us play at home with him sometimes, though, so we did get to at least try it. We also weren't allowed to play DnD. We had a group of friends, guys and girls, but every week the guys would go play DnD and the girls were not allowed. They let us come once... and they made my sister play a cleric. For one game, and then we couldn't come back after that. I was insulted for liking Sailor Moon - and then a year later when everyone loved it, they had all forgotten about the persecution - and I still wasn't allowed to like it because it was a cool kids thing. I was turned away from comic stores because I was a girl. I got mocked when I bought manga instead of 'real' comics. When I wanted to buy real comics and asked where to start, I was laughed and mocked out of the store. When a Warhammer tabletop store opened in the mall, I would walk in (more than once), and everyone would actually stop what they were doing, clerks and patrons, and simply stare at me until I left. At EB Games (and even now at Gamestop, to a point), I would get 'geek-checked'. ... Well, I won't even get into the 'geek-checking', as you can imagine. I won't get into online gaming experiences either, the panel members went over everything.

What's sad is that all of our stories are the same.

What's promising is that, for this younger generation, we're actually having these conversations and people are actively (whether for good or ill) participating. Sexism is still a huge part of gaming (and wider) culture, but at least people are aware of it now.

Hopefully this does get more people thinking about how best to handle... things that shouldn't even be situations. Good panel, and I'll recommend it for anyone before they delve into any mroe feminism in gaming threads here, or anywhere else.

I just wanted to say that I'm really glad that this panel exists, along with other things like it, that there are voices for women advocacy in this industry that actually belong to women. While I want to help and talk and promote a more evenhanded response to women, simply being a guy gives me an outsider's perspective on the issue. So I'm just glad that there are things like this that makes those views really public and draws attention to it. Now, someone like me doesn't really have to argue on behalf of women anymore, we can just point to things like this.

Oh yeah, good panel too!

Not really much to add here except that I enjoyed the panel. I'm a little on the fence about (not) including a male panelist as well, but I can certainly see the perspective of why there wasn't one and I can't say the panel was actually worse because of it.

Oh, and it was also extremely nice to see the panel's response to the supposed anti white knight troll. It's a viewpoint I agree with not just specifically in relation to this topic but just to trolling in general. It's just being a dick and it only rarely even partially funny. Plus, if the intent of your "trolling" is to try to cause change, sorry, it's just not going to happen.

This was actually a good panel since it covered a lot of ground and various topic with personal experiences. I feel some online get defensive in this issue because sometimes there is also a lot of venom, generalizing and quick to brand things as sexist. This was calm, smart and witty, less shaming, more explaining.

I like the point about sex pandering to be insulting to males to, constantly being marketed to as a moronic early teen, even if the game is not suitable for that age.

Also really? There was a piece on how to get your girlfriend to see the Avengers? That film that when I saw it was packed full with the most diverse audience (age, sex, race) I've seen recently? The film that broke multiple box office records? Yeah because a multiple-billion dollar cross media franchise is a nerdy niche...

..*sigh* At least you said there was backlash.

I find the term "mansplaining" amusing and seems to apply to a lot of older politicians however I can the term being easily abused to shout down any male viewpoint. I'm not saying that it is now but the internet is predictable.

Interesting pannel. Not really used to hour long vids, but it was worth listening to.

Hopefully there'll be some impact in the community with this.

Stabby Joe:

Also really? There was a piece on how to get your girlfriend to see the Avengers? That film that when I saw it was packed full with the most diverse audience (age, sex, race) I've seen recently? The film that broke multiple box office records? Yeah because a multiple-billion dollar cross media franchise is a nerdy niche...

..*sigh* At least you said there was backlash.

I thought 'Typical Girlfriend' would automatically watch Avengers due to Robert Downey Junior?
You know, same type of reason that allowed me and my ex girlfriend to watch Real Steel; Shirtless Hugh Jackman.

(Honestly, there isn't a single woman I know that haven't enjoyed Avengers for the movie itself.)

Interesting video. Thanks for helping to separate "white knight" and "ally" behaviour.

Is anyone else embarrassed by the fact that the Escapist Expo was the catalyst that made the women feel that we needed this panel?

 

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