Zero Punctuation: Exclusives Showdown

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Shjade:
[quote="geldonyetich" post="6.835199.20446173"] It's not that PC gaming is so great, it's more that all the advantages console gaming used to have over PC gaming are being systematically stripped away.

Right, and coming from both sides. The PC has become more plug'n'play (easy HDMI connection with TVs and generally less troublesome (drivers) as before, Steam Big Picture), while the consoles got more inconvenient (enormous patch downloads, need to install before playing, requiring bigger hard disks over time, paid-for online play).

@Crimsonmonkeywar: What's "GL" supposed to mean?

The PC is pretty much as bad as consoles for spewing up rehashed garbage and possibly even worse for sequels. I'd consider myself to be PC master race if that meant more than "I have a laptop that can play indie games" which is decidedly less sexy seeing as that's most people.

Need more singing Yahtzee.

Oh boy. Yahtzee had dropped a subtle hint earlier that he was leaning towards PC gaming, but it was buried in one of this long Extra Punctuation articles.
However in this one he's literally tooting that from the fucking rooftops. As much as a PC nerd like can appreciate that, he's probably going to get some shit for it :S

While I agree that the PC is a far superior platform in almost every conceivable way, there are still people out there who prefer to do their gaming on consoles.
No reason to tease them about it.

I was expecting the final joke to be: and then the sun crashes and you have to Google which part of your computer caused the crash and how to fix it.

I love pc gaming but the hours I spend getting certain games to work makes me wonder or I should get a ps4 or xbox one.

So Yahtzee is going to release a vocal music album right? I mean that's what I got out of this review.

Welp, you and me, Playstation 2. You have been a steadfast companion for many years, and hopefully many years to come.

That is, until it becomes incompatible with the telly, or the Tech Geeks take over the nation and enforce laws against owning and using obsolete technology.

WhitbyDragon:
I want Yahtzee to sing more, overlaying your own harmonies must be tricky. Loved this episode!

(would be PC master race but with my machine it's more like PC can occasionally run it if it's optimised well and has options I can reduce to the bottom)

Hear, hear. Mine is a strange machine I know little about and try to keep in working order by strange rites and incantations those Initiated suggest to me.

It does work, though, I must be doing something right to appease the spirits within.

I'm not sure if it's funny or sad that there was an Xbone ad preceding this episode....

-Dragmire-:

Keep in mind that your rig that you haven't had to upgrade in 3 years doesn't seem very impressive when compared to the last console generation's 7+ year lifespan.

There's quite a bit to be said about the consumer's comfort and perception of the products they use. Your list of 1080p, 60fps, AA, SSAO and GL goes from something the average consumer knows and understands(though limited, 1080p means squat to a lot of people but they know it's better than 480, 720 etc.. the more 'p' the better) to areas where people have no understanding of and feel the bar for learning is too high.

Both PCs and the consoles are complex machines but consoles have a far more restricted environment with what you can do with it. This works to it's benefit because it requires so little for the consumer to understand as well as creates the perception that little can go wrong with the machine. It seems odd but there are many people that absolutely hate looking at system requirements and feel it's an unnecessary hassle when they want to play a new game.

The barrier of entry to understand enough hardware and software lingo isn't as high as most imagine it to be but their absolute belief that it's an impenetrable miasma of complicated tech speak has defeated them before any attempt has been made.

Oh, and just to cover this, I know consoles have many problems themselves and are starting to inherit a few from PC (updates) but I'm focusing on public perception.

It's not(incredibly low end now), but my point is the whole "2500usd every 6mon basement dwellers" is like calling all console gamers children. I can dump in another 400-500(I rather wait till next year) and my rig is back on top, backwards compatibility and all, and as computers(even tablets and smart phones) expand, evolve, the gap will only increase again. That was the point I was try to make in terms of power.

The other point, which I failed to clarify, was the fact that computer parts are a essentially Lego's now, and SteamMachines and OS are out to make that even simpler.

I do agree with you on terminology, but it's also something you can see, especially in person. PC gamers have always claimed that you need to see it in person because screen shots and videos don't do it justice. The same is starting to be discovered with console gamers and the next generation of consoles. In person, though you might not know the terms, it becomes instantly apparent.

Crimsonmonkeywar:

Most? really, I self identify as a PC gamer, because that's were I primarily play games.

Ignoring his actual explanation, holding yourself (or any individual) up to disprove a trend is a notoriously bad way of doing it. I mean, I can find Kuwait on a map with no effort (or country names), but that doesn't disprove the notion that Americans are bad at geography (just because I am an American, and at least moderately versed on the subject).

proghead:

Shjade:
[quote="geldonyetich" post="6.835199.20446173"] It's not that PC gaming is so great, it's more that all the advantages console gaming used to have over PC gaming are being systematically stripped away.

Right, and coming from both sides. The PC has become more plug'n'play (easy HDMI connection with TVs and generally less troublesome (drivers) as before, Steam Big Picture), while the consoles got more inconvenient (enormous patch downloads, need to install before playing, requiring bigger hard disks over time, paid-for online play).

@Crimsonmonkeywar: What's "GL" supposed to mean?

I mistyped and meant to put 'GI' for Global Illumination

Zachary Amaranth:

Crimsonmonkeywar:

Most? really, I self identify as a PC gamer, because that's were I primarily play games.

Ignoring his actual explanation, holding yourself (or any individual) up to disprove a trend is a notoriously bad way of doing it. I mean, I can find Kuwait on a map with no effort (or country names), but that doesn't disprove the notion that Americans are bad at geography (just because I am an American, and at least moderately versed on the subject).

Last I checked, when referring to a statement(which I've found out to have been misread) as one accusing PC gamers of arrogance, never did I use myself as a counterpoint.
- 'most' in regards to their 'arrogance and ignorance'.

Secondly, the point at which I refereed to myself was toward both there views on the illogical use of the term 'PC gamer'. Which was used as an absolute, to which I gave clarity for why it's used in place of gamer. That I own many devices, but still label myself as PC gamer.
- I use 'PC gamer' for this reason, therefor it does not equate to arrogance

TurkeyProphet:
The PC is pretty much as bad as consoles for spewing up rehashed garbage and possibly even worse for sequels. I'd consider myself to be PC master race if that meant more than "I have a laptop that can play indie games" which is decidedly less sexy seeing as that's most people.

Whoah, what's this? There were console releases and people are arguing the point?

Huh, I'd been so busy playing XCOM Enemy Within, Skyrim (with some awesome mods downloaded through the Steam workshop), and reading up on the upcoming Steam box while sitting on my sofa because my computer is hooked via HDMI to my TV (controlled using a wireless controller) that I didn't notice.

Well I guess I can look into it no-- oh look a steam sale....seems I'll be able to get Saints Row 4 for less than 30 dollars plus DLC....gosh, how much is it for all you console players out there?

love the docter who reference xD

Not to flame but if you think about it, PC is more expensive since you have to upgrade individual hardware pieces every 6 months or so just to play the latest games and there's no grantee that they will run because a program you have in the background or your current hardware configuration will not get along with the game.

This is why I mostly stick to console gaming, since you only have to take out a loan every 5-7 years.

At least someone other than me remembered that Titanfall is not exclusive for once. So sick of hearing Titanfall being a reason to buy an Xbone. If I want to play Titanfall I'll buy it for the PC I already own.

Not that I actually want to play Titanfall.

Jman1236:
Not to flame but if you think about it, PC is more expensive since you have to upgrade individual hardware pieces every 6 months or so just to play the latest games

No you don't.

I'm pretty sure that regardless of which system might be "better", I see this as him making two points.

1: Being based on x86, the new consoles are basically pc's anyway(although being pc's that have a proprietary OS).

2: There are hardly any games on the new consoles, so at the moment, it's not that smart to buy ANY of the new consoles, they are just pretty bricks untill they get more games out.

He could have phrased this better, as this will get people angry..

Jman1236:
Not to flame but if you think about it, PC is more expensive since you have to upgrade individual hardware pieces every 6 months or so just to play the latest games

Actually, you barely need to update at all unless you want to play at max settings (which the consoles don't do). Most PC graphics cards are far more powerful then the new consoles, with the equivalent being about the Radeon 7850 (150$), and optimization can only take you so far.

But yeah, looks like PC/Wii U is the way to go this gen if you want all the games.

It is threads like this that make me hate humanity a little more every day...

Biggest reason I would never want to call myself a PC Gamer, even though I have a pretty sweet rig: because of the people in this thread.

I love that this is THE way to pick a console. It's a purchasing decision that should only be made off the exclusives.

Wake me up, however, when consoles get Dota2.

Aardvaarkman:

geldonyetich:
I'd say it's less, "oh look, the Glorious PC Gaming Master Race actually happened" and more, "oh look, the next gen consoles committed suicide."

Well, that's certainly a logical conclusion to draw from the new consoles having record launch sales, while PC sales are continuing to decline. Sure.

Sure. http://apcmag.com/10-reasons-why-the-pc-isnt-dying.htm

NameIsRobertPaulson:
It is threads like this that make me hate humanity a little more every day...

Biggest reason I would never want to call myself a PC Gamer, even though I have a pretty sweet rig: because of the people in this thread.

Really? I haven't read a single arrogant quote from a single user in this thread claiming to be a 'PC gamer'. What I do see are people defending themselves from people calling them out with arrogant statements and gross generalization, or correcting incorrect statements

If you think that's disgusting and a reason to hate humanity than I say you should try looking at yourself rather than others.

"PC gamers are full of themselves with their million dollar systems, they think it's better"

"No we aren't, no it's not, and technically speaking, it is.

"See, they're just so damn full of themselves, I hate people like you".

Still can't afford a PC, as much as I'd like one. I had to save for a long time to buy a PS4, just because I want to play new releases and eventually they'll stop being made for current gen. I wish PC gamers would understand that most console gamers ACKNOWLEDGE that PC is a better way to play games, but just can't afford to pay twice as much for one than a console, and spare us the elitism. Whenever people start criticising me on my choice of platform and chanting "PC MASTER RACE" at me, it essentially boils down to them saying "look at what I can afford and you can't. Now I'm going to make you feel inferior because of the disposable income you don't have".

Crimsonmonkeywar:

NameIsRobertPaulson:
It is threads like this that make me hate humanity a little more every day...

Biggest reason I would never want to call myself a PC Gamer, even though I have a pretty sweet rig: because of the people in this thread.

Really? I haven't read a single arrogant quote from a single user in this thread claiming to be a 'PC gamer'. What I do see are people defending themselves from people calling them out with arrogant statements and gross generalization, or correcting incorrect statements

If you think that's disgusting and a reason to hate humanity than I say you should try looking at yourself rather than others.

He seems to think that this is www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace, and we're all in disguise saying "SSSHHH, We're hunting Wabbits!"

C14N:
For some reason, I feel weirdly satisfied that the first Christmas game season to finally get the next generation truly started is also the worst Christmas game season in years. None of the 3 consoles yet have a big "must buy" game on them yet. Just look at the Metascores of the exclusives on each one. The X1 was banking on Dead Rising 3 (78), Killer Instinct (73) and Ryse (60) while the PS4 was going to give Killzone Shadow Fall (74) and Knack (56). Maybe this means the critics are starting to take their scores a little more seriously rather than handing out token 9s and 10s periodically. The Wii U has a little more going for it right now but Wind Waker is still just a re-release that I already own and Mario 3D Land looks like it's most of its value is in local multiplayer.

Playing through the game and trust me, multiplayuer isn't its best quality. Its the levels and my brother/sister? (I can't tell) a retail game that can boast level design as its best qualit yis a truly rare beast these days.

Crimsonmonkeywar:

-Dragmire-:

Keep in mind that your rig that you haven't had to upgrade in 3 years doesn't seem very impressive when compared to the last console generation's 7+ year lifespan.

There's quite a bit to be said about the consumer's comfort and perception of the products they use. Your list of 1080p, 60fps, AA, SSAO and GL goes from something the average consumer knows and understands(though limited, 1080p means squat to a lot of people but they know it's better than 480, 720 etc.. the more 'p' the better) to areas where people have no understanding of and feel the bar for learning is too high.

Both PCs and the consoles are complex machines but consoles have a far more restricted environment with what you can do with it. This works to it's benefit because it requires so little for the consumer to understand as well as creates the perception that little can go wrong with the machine. It seems odd but there are many people that absolutely hate looking at system requirements and feel it's an unnecessary hassle when they want to play a new game.

The barrier of entry to understand enough hardware and software lingo isn't as high as most imagine it to be but their absolute belief that it's an impenetrable miasma of complicated tech speak has defeated them before any attempt has been made.

Oh, and just to cover this, I know consoles have many problems themselves and are starting to inherit a few from PC (updates) but I'm focusing on public perception.

It's not(incredibly low end now), but my point is the whole "2500usd every 6mon basement dwellers" is like calling all console gamers children. I can dump in another 400-500(I rather wait till next year) and my rig is back on top, backwards compatibility and all, and as computers(even tablets and smart phones) expand, evolve, the gap will only increase again. That was the point I was try to make in terms of power.

The other point, which I failed to clarify, was the fact that computer parts are a essentially Lego's now, and SteamMachines and OS are out to make that even simpler.

I do agree with you on terminology, but it's also something you can see, especially in person. PC gamers have always claimed that you need to see it in person because screen shots and videos don't do it justice. The same is starting to be discovered with console gamers and the next generation of consoles. In person, though you might not know the terms, it becomes instantly apparent.

Apologies, I was quoting you in a vacuum, without reading the context derived from the person you were quoting(his argument seemed like flamebait to me).

Side note: I do most of my gaming on PC as well and I understand your viewpoint however, I'm presenting a viewpoint from the perspective of a person who has no interest in technology itself, but merely in the media that the technology provides. I feel this is an extremely common viewpoint and that understanding it will help us to be more inviting to people who are misinformed and base judgment on the platform on stereotypes.

To clarify the point I was making about perception and whatnot...

Backwards compatibility and multitude of other uses PCs have is lost in this comparison but, people being as they are, will focus on comparing the ability to play new releases.

This is a cheap shot:

If you put $400-500 more on your system, you've then spent $900-1000 on it which people will jump on and complain about the expense. You've now spent more than a launch PS3 in order to keep up.

Also, I was not trying to downplay the merits of the PC platform, I was just trying to explain how public perception of the platform has created exaggerated barriers that people can't overcome because they've convinced themselves they couldn't succeed in the first place.

So upgrading is great for us but the very idea of opening up the PC case scares many people who convince themselves that the'll likely break something if they tried to upgrade the system themselves. The actual difficulty is irrelevant and these people merely find it easier to buy a console that will play all games made for that system, guaranteed.

We are getting to a point where consoles are actually teaching people PC concepts that can potentially start easing people's worries over the platform(people have grudgingly accepted that they need software updates from time to time and bugs/glitches are a 'gaming' thing rather than a 'PC' thing). As digital gaming becomes more prevalent in the console market, we'll see a push for hard drive upgrades that will have to be physically installed. Though, on the other hand, many will probably pay someone else to install it rather than do it themselves, sadly.

Basement gaming is SOOOO 1990! We of the true master gaming race have quite literally elevated ourselves to gaming in the attic. This way we can be literally superior at all times regardless of hardware to the console gaming peasants.

Joking aside this console war is about the most pointless one ever had. In the past gaming exclusives kind of made sense because they were literally developed specifically for certain platforms. Nowadays it's all just 4 different PC's being sold under different names.

The one of which I like best is the one still called a PC. Mostly because the games are cheaper, the mods are plentiful, I have more games available than I could play in a life time, everything is backwards compatible even if it takes a bit of elbow grease (damn you Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow!) and the fact I can just sock it to any company that demands I log in once every 24 hours to check up on me or else it will fry my PC.

knox140:
Still can't afford a PC, as much as I'd like one. I had to save for a long time to buy a PS4, just because I want to play new releases and eventually they'll stop being made for current gen. I wish PC gamers would understand that most console gamers ACKNOWLEDGE that PC is a better way to play games, but just can't afford to pay twice as much for one than a console, and spare us the elitism. Whenever people start criticising me on my choice of platform and chanting "PC MASTER RACE" at me, it essentially boils down to them saying "look at what I can afford and you can't. Now I'm going to make you feel inferior because of the disposable income you don't have".

I personally have nothing to say against preferring a platform, but I will argue, and what most aruge, is that if you do more than Madden and CoD, the initial high cost of the PC will eventually be a cheaper investment than a console.

What I have always argued is that price and simplicity are a moot point to make for your purchase, PC's are past that stereotype. It comes down to exclusives and where your friends are. My friends hardly game and I'm not a big fan of the exclusive traditional shooters and JRPG's I've seen/played, so the PC was the obvious choice for me. For you, that might not be the case(not saying that's all they have).

If that comes across as an arrogant statement I apologize, but you have to realize that hearing that as a PC gamer is like hearing "white guys can't jump" used as a factual bullet point for why to not to put one on your team. It's just plain wrong

That last part made me smile. *looks with a very happy expression at his PC*

But I do miss the glorious PC Gaming Master Race picture in this review. Just to spice up the comment section and fuel the everlasting 'which-console-is-best' war.

To be honest, I hope that both consoles fail so hard. Not because the fact that I'm a part of the aforementioned PCMGR but because these...ehr companies called Sony and Microsoft deserve to fail for their complete lacklustre efforts to win over the people who already sided with the PS3 & XB360.

To be frank, the PS4 will be appealing when a fun and creative Crash Bandicoot game is released for it. Until that point, I'd much rather kill zombies with Gnome Chompski and waste time on acquiring pointless hats for my Medic.

Oh my glop, that was hilarious!

Looks like Yahtzee has upgraded his video editing software, and started mucking around with the multichannel feature on his field recorder.

Also looks like there isn't much available yet to justify going out and spending serious coin on a new console, especially given all the launch glitches.

NameIsRobertPaulson:
It is threads like this that make me hate humanity a little more every day...

Biggest reason I would never want to call myself a PC Gamer, even though I have a pretty sweet rig: because of the people in this thread.

I don't like the PC Gamer name as well but it's the acronym that does it for me. I've heard the PC acronym so much over the years that I hear the other versions of it before Personal Computer. It probably is also due to, when speaking, I never say PC, it's always just computer.

What crosses my mind when I hear PC Gamer...

(P)resident's (C)hoice Gamer.
(P)rogressive (C)onservative Gamer.

It's more lengthy but I usually say I'm a gamer that primarily plays on PC(computer) when asked what platform I identify with. It also feels less loaded due to it not sounding like a title meant to exclude other options.

I'm a pc player. I own some consoles (Super Famicom, Game Cube and PS2) but this gen isn't for me.
In first, the exclusives titles are weak and bland (and Dead Rising is just a timed exclusive, nothing more).

I'll never buy one of these two consoles just because i want to be free... I don't want to sign terms that allow a company to record everything about my family or ban me if I use insults in a private call.
I do not want to depend on a single company (Microsoft or Sony), i want to choose my game provider (Gog in first, Steam in second), my components provider, i don't want to have a paywall to have multiplayer and so on.

For the rig's price, my PC is five years old, i changed only my graphic card one time and i can run every game at full (even TW2) because i made it myself with choosen components for 500$. 660 if i count the new GC.
So, when i see this new gen...

I just want to be free... And consoles don't permit that.

We get it Yahtzee! Your a PC gamer. I would ask why your even bothering with consoles if you hate them but then I remembered you said it was your job.

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