Jimquisition: Shaming PC Ports Because Why Not?

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Shaming PC Ports Because Why Not?

Jim decides to just rant unhelpfully about terrible PC ports, and the humiliating need for them to be fixed by unpaid customers.

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But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

Well hopefully this issue will be rarer now than developers must develop for PBox One and the PC4 to produce console games. I don't think that last part was 'not written' but you pulled it off nicely.

Twenty Ninjas:
But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

Almost all PC games cost less but not by much, certainly not enough to excuse shoddy work. If you buy a washing machine where the door isn't fitted to the frame properly you wouldn't buy it for a 10 discount.

So Jim, are you expecting someone in the community to release a patch for your script? XD

I guess im kinda on the other fence by saying that i really enjoyed Diablo 3 on PS3. I did keep track of how it was received on PC and im really glad they changed it and trimmed the fat for the console release.

Eeeeeh, Dark Souls has a valid excuse of being the exception, FromSoft have never done a PC port and they never would've done it if it didn't have demand. But yes, via dsfix everything is fine and dandy and noone complains.

However on Deadlight you are dead on(pun intented). But you missed the obvious examples of quite a few Capcom ports and the infamous Saint's Row 2 and GTA IV.

PC does have a higher standard really, and because of differentiating hardware and drivers, it can be really tricky to make a stable port from X360 to PC. Hopefully it will get better when devs have to port from Xbone to PC.

PG:

Twenty Ninjas:
But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

Almost all PC games cost less but not by much, certainly not enough to excuse shoddy work. If you buy a washing machine where the door isn't fitted to the frame properly you wouldn't buy it for a 10 discount.

That's a shitty analogy. The Dark Souls port was both functional and had more content for free. And assuming you played it with a controller, you had about the same thing as the console version.

Not to mention From only did it because of the petition.

A port of House of the Dead: Overkill was released on Steam as Typing of the Dead: Overkill. Cool concept, must have. The problem is that it's unstable and crashes (in my case, it crashes my computer as it attempts to load). After releasing a patch and some DLC, the problem persists. Needless to say, this video speaks to me and I'm not going to buy a game on PC unless I read some feedback to ensure that it will actually run!

I would say that while we expect ports to suck... suck suck suck some big ol-

Ahem, while we expect some suckage, by no means is everyone accepting of lazy developers. Everytime someone has to step in and fix an easy-to-correct problem for free, we lose a few more people to the temptations of piracy. We are approaching the point were we have zero respect for AAA game designers and it shows.

Never put much thought into the subject, but I do see how ridiculous it is that there are so many problems with several games ported to PC that are fixed by fans and modders. It is sad. First-world problem, but still sad.

Now if someone could fix the always-online feature of Diablo 3...

Its what its like now. With old consoles the games worked or they didnt, no such luxury for day one patches - something the PC had and was used to due to internet access. Now, when console are linked to the internet, now consoles have day one patches which seem to be the norm. Though it is an admittance of shoddy developing if you need a patch.

Mods for extra fun are great. But mods fixing bugs or gameplay issues should never be needed. An to think "no worries, it will be modded soon" has become a normal reaction to pc gaming, like Rome 2. The fact it is accepted.....though not necessarily liked....gives companies the green light to release buggy and broken games. Its great that there are gamers with the skills to be able to fix things but they shouldnt have to.

The technical aspect is unforgivable, a game needs to work when you release it.
But often the biggest dissapointment for me, is the UI or other limitation left over from the console version.

The Elder Scrolls games UI's were, and are, fucking horrible.

Look, I acknowledge that Bethesda can make some pretty good games...

... But at the same time, most of their games are released in a VERY unfinished, buggy, even broken state before the mod communities can fix the issues themselves.

I just have a weird feeling seeing an otherwise good game like Skyrim win several Game of the Year awards, when at that very moment entire versions of it were completely unplayable (especially on PS3).

I mean, if we literally reward them with the highest honors we can give a game, while their games are in a broken state, and they expect the fans and communities to fix their mess for them, what incentive do they have to actually ever release a polished, working game to market?

Smilomaniac:

But often the biggest dissapointment for me, is the UI or other limitation left over from the console version.

The Elder Scrolls games UI's were, and are, fucking horrible.

Aww, I absolutely hated the Elder Scrolls menu system, not only was it badly designed from a usability point of view, but it was actually bugged and unresponsive, and some of the buttons didn't work with the mouse, which was unforgivable. Mods fixed it, of course, but mods shouldn't have had to.

P.S. Jim, I didn't get to say thanks for doing the microtransaction one last week, I enjoyed it as well.

Well why shouldnt an inexperienced crew try to port thier works to PC?

How can they learn to do a good job of it if they do not make the mistakes?

"Don't port games to PC" ~ Jim Sterling

Okay I'll stop stirring, more seriously, even if you don't know how to port to PC, you should be able to pay another company to do that for you. The fan fixes prove that

Twenty Ninjas:
But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

PC prices are 10 pounds cheaper normally because they don't have to pay a cut to the platform holder. So the company isn't making less money for shilling an inferior product, it's just that Sony or Microsoft aren't taking a cut

It is worth noting that because some fuckwit decided that games being "pretty" was more important than games being functional, and then those games continued to be purchased en masse, that this is the norm. Art departments making bucket loads of content, most of which will go unused anyway, being cut down/edited by so called "directors" and then handed off piecemeal to two or three groups of actual scripters/programmers/whatever to be forced to work with what they've already developed. Only to have that product put through the same "director" process and then back to them again.

Its worth noting that this shouldn't be exclusively seen as "buggy PC ports are bad" so much as it is "buggy games are bad".

Is the workload a valid excuse? It is for the people forced to work on it but those in charge of the situation are taking the piss.
Why do some developers have 5-6 artists for every 1 programmer? Because, and I quote, "programmers are almost pure overhead".

Twenty Ninjas:
But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

For a digital only game that barely worked, almost a year later? I should certainly hope so.

gigastar:
Well why shouldnt an inexperienced crew try to port thier works to PC?

How can they learn to do a good job of it if they do not make the mistakes?

I don't want to pay money to be someone's guinea pig. That's what beta testing and QA is for.

About time someone took up this issuse. It piss me the fuck off!

Trishbot:
Look, I acknowledge that Bethesda can make some pretty good games...

... But at the same time, most of their games are released in a VERY unfinished, buggy, even broken state before the mod communities can fix the issues themselves.

I just have a weird feeling seeing an otherwise good game like Skyrim win several Game of the Year awards, when at that very moment entire versions of it were completely unplayable (especially on PS3).

I mean, if we literally reward them with the highest honors we can give a game, while their games are in a broken state, and they expect the fans and communities to fix their mess for them, what incentive do they have to actually ever release a polished, working game to market?

I agree, why reward them for broken games? I have always applauded Bethesda's ambition for their games, and they put tons of love into them, but if it was not for streaming patches and the mod community... I would not have the patience to finish them. From story concepts and content alone, Bethesda is one of the best for sure, but their technical issues are pretty epic as well. My number one selfish wish that I beg to be answered from the company is; better combat please! Like a faster, less janky Dark Souls type of combat.

Twenty Ninjas:
But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

That doesn't matter.. it was released as a complete product.

TBH I don't know how From Software didn't contact the modder and hire that man.. or at least drop him a few thousands bux for his efforts ( and fire their current programmers ) . Seems quite odd that companies that can program for consoles which are well known for being more complex systems, manage to screw up pc versions given that it should be much quicker to manage. Maybe they simply cant handle the variety of hardware options... a general problem of the PC master race dream.

There are three things that are noteworthy for causing bad ports, Jim: Lacking or no documentation for programmers to work with, unfamiliarity with the engine they are using, or outright expecting the engine to do something that it just cannot. Believe it or not, it's not as much as lazy programming, but instead programmers that are either too reserved and personal with their code, or programmers trying out-nerd each other by making everything more complicated - This is why certain network systems require certifications if you want to work with them.

We need a good Thoreauing of the industry. Not just gaming mind you, but tech in general.

Delcast:

Twenty Ninjas:
But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

That doesn't matter.. it was released as a complete product.

That was in response to Jim's last bit about charging 60 dollars whether you're incompetent or neglectful.

I assume next week Jim is going to do a episode on the whole Lets play debacle happening on steam?

There really should be a list with the step by step guide to getting the best game possible vs the price.

1st: Don't Pre-order, the "bonuses are crap most of the time.
2nd: Don't buy at the release
3rd: Look at reviews and hopefully lets play videos before deciding.
4th: See what Mod support the game has
5th: Wait a year for the ultimate/game of year/ humble bundle/ collection of all the dlc at 50% of the cost
6th: If the game is from a indie developer one can be a bit less strict.

I would just like to see a shitty console port one day, the idea of a console gamer getting to a spot in teh game and a box pops up on the screen that says "press space to dodge the dragon attacks" or something like that. It would be pretty amusing for me.

Rah! Been ranting about this for years now. We'll I've stopped recently because I lost the energy but this has bugged me for years.
On top of that there are just generally shitty PC ports from console where the dev just doesn't bother to tailor the game towards it's platform (PC) and again charges you full price for the game.
It's disgusting tbh.

Twenty Ninjas:
That was in response to Jim's last bit about charging 60 dollars whether you're incompetent or neglectful.

I'm pretty sure he was just generalising. You know instead of having to say "as for Darksouls, which is €50 on steam, $40 if you're in the States, $36 from Greenman Gaming or if you're in Brazil: 160 BRL..." etc. for example.
And as others have said, it doesn't really matter what the price of a game is.

Mcoffey:

gigastar:
Well why shouldnt an inexperienced crew try to port thier works to PC?

How can they learn to do a good job of it if they do not make the mistakes?

I don't want to pay money to be someone's guinea pig. That's what beta testing and QA is for.

Agreed, but if nobody buys into the first crash landing then why should the devs consider coming back for a second go?

"Japanese devs don't know how to PC port"....
um... what?
Racist.

If anyone doesn't know how to PC port... it's Bethesda.
For anyone who isn't a tentacle monster, a Hindu god/dess, or an elitist hipster... the base keyboard and mouse for Bethesda games are unplayable with these human hands and fingers.

At least they include controller support on their PC titles for all the humans who play.

It feels a little late to be jumping on Dark Souls for this, I mean that was awhile ago. Also I do feel sympathy for them because they're inexperience, they admitted that they fucked up, and they're going designing Dark Souls 2 FOR PC and then porting it to consoles to avoid this happening again. Yeah they messed up big time, but I feel like all of the people who do this they're one of the few that could deserve to have some slack cut.

The biggest problem I had with the video is how Jim rather degraded those who made those mods/tweaks to get a PC port to work. Don't remember the exact words but I believe he was calling them plain and your average guy sort of thing. That bothers me to an extent, namely because not only do these average "guys" love to mod and change a game (for the most part) but also because there have been at least 3 success stories of modders being so popular that the land a job at Bethesda or Bungie. I wouldn't call them average at all; I'd call them better. They know what they're doing and even if the PC community needs to "fix" certain parts of a game, they are, for the most part, incredibly helpful. In a way, I almost prefer Elder Scrolls/Fallout games to suck because modders will be so much better at it and even teach you how to do it yourself.

If there's a PC port, I hope it's good and I'm happy we at least got one (look at GTA V and the lack of one). Frankly I think the greater crime are the companies that make a PC-only game and make it into an absolute shit-fest. Rome 2 TW is the perfect example.

(There's also a possibility that I've been in this PC-port ecosystem for so long that I don't think much about ports and their problems. I'm conditioned to think that they're ok or will be patched at some later date to work. That, by itself, is a problem. Do remember being pissed off about RAGE when it first came out, even if it wasn't a PC port. Oh well)

gigastar:

Mcoffey:

gigastar:
Well why shouldnt an inexperienced crew try to port thier works to PC?

How can they learn to do a good job of it if they do not make the mistakes?

I don't want to pay money to be someone's guinea pig. That's what beta testing and QA is for.

Agreed, but if nobody buys into the first crash landing then why should the devs consider coming back for a second go?

If the product isn't up to standard, of course no one will buy it. It's not the customers responsibility to "take one for the team" so that- hopefully!- they get it right next time.

Right you are Jim, as usual.

Besides the obvious GFWL and the fact that I need a controller to play it I have never really had a problem with the Dark Souls unpatched port. I mean I guess it isn't the best looking game, but I honestly can live with that due to the 3 second loading screens. It's not like the port has any game crippling bugs or anything.
Am I being a fanboy? I think I'm being a fanboy.

Epic_Bubble:
I assume next week Jim is going to do a episode on the whole Lets play debacle happening on steam?

Wait, what? I haven't heard of this! Can you post me to the steam link about it?
Not sure what it' about.

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