Boys Behaving Badly

Boys Behaving Badly

Scorsese is known as a dramatist. Wolf is probably the first truly great work of comic filmmaking he's managed.

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Indeed. This is one of the movies I feel I need to see before I make any final judgments in regards to my 'best films of the year' list. I'm looking forward to sseing Scorcese try his hand at full-blown comedy, and not just comedy with an incredibly dark undertone like The King of Comedy.

Well Bob, I will agree with the inordinate amount of people out there who seem to worship Scarface but don't get the message behind it... But then there're people who think Walter White is a hero too so, shows you how messed up people's thought processes can be. I will definitely be seeing this one, though I may wait as I don't go to the theater for mild movies anymore. I feel theater watching is an experience, where I can see things like Avengers come to life. At home I will enjoy my comedies and dramas (depending on scale) because there's a more intimate setting and I'll be damned if I miss a part of a movie cuz I'm laughing too damn hard. REWIND FTW.

I think the reason people miss that "Fight Club" is about a condemnation of Tyler Durden is because most of the parts of the movie that carry any resonance are the things that Tyler Durden says and does. The movie sets out to make Tyler's philosophy seem attractive to help the audience understand why he was able to gather a following, but the movie doesn't afford the same appeal to pointing out the ugly side of it. The biggest point in the movie that's supposed to drive home the danger of Tyler Durden's philosophy is the death of Robert Paulsen, but all anyone remembers from that scene is "His name is Robert Paulsen", which may subtly point out the absurdity that Project Mayhem had become, but when people quote it, it's humorous because it's a (perhaps unintentionally) funny scene and Robert Paulsen is made out to be a humorous character.

Aside from that, the worst Project Mayhem does is blow up a bunch of buildings that Tyler assures the audience had no people in them. So a substantial portion of the audience walks away feeling like Project Mayhem had some good ideas (read "quotable one-liners") but took them too far. My generation found a lot of the basic ideas (commercialism is bad, social conventions are stupid, messing with society is fun) appealing and thus could easily ignore or overlook the parts where everything goes to shit. It certainly didn't help that the entire third act is dedicated to the twist of the movie rather than solely focusing on the resolution of the Project Mayhem franchise.

So yeah, people who walk away positively quoting Tyler Durden are definitely missing the intended purpose of the movie, but it's only because the movie didn't do a very good job making its intentions as emotionally resonant as the stuff we were supposed to come away dismissing as manipulative bullshit.

I've heard Bob mention Scarface negatively before and really didn't understand where he's coming from but now I totally understand.

I've watched Scarface with a group of friends, one of whom (a "friend" rather than actual friend) watched to the end and proclaimed "that main guy is my fucking hero!", apparently not paying enough attention to remember his name... Sigh.

Really? The original Wall Street didn't make it up there with Fight Club and Scarface? Gordon Gekko is an actual role model for modern traders.

Is "Wolf of Wall Street" even out yet for wide release? And it's getting all these accolades like "Best Film of the Year" now? I even heard the same things about "American Hustle". I'd like to hear what Bob would say about that, given it's from the same guy that made "Silver Lining Playbook", which Bob hated.

amaranth_dru:
But then there're people who think Walter White is a hero too so, shows you how messed up people's thought processes can be

Aww...

Well, I never thought that he was a hero, just that he was never the "greatest evil" that a lot of people made him out to be, to me, Tuco was just plain satanic because he enjoyed the pain and misery he was causing, whereas White only ever did such things out of necessity, or deperately tried to rationalise his decisions.

Not a person I'd want to be with (S5) for any extended period of time, but certainly not a person that I would tremble in fear out of.

OT: I really want to go see this movie, even if it wasn't "all that", Scorcese still makes it worth seeing alone.

"They're would-be Warriors of Capitalism who probably identify more with Scrooge McDuck than Ayn Rand (mostly because it's more likely that they've heard of Scrooge McDuck.)"

So HELP me Bob, if I see this and the Ducktales theme starts running through my head, I'm going to be so pissed...I mean for the interruption, not for hating the song or anything.

Pat Hulse:
I think the reason people miss that "Fight Club" is about a condemnation of Tyler Durden is because most of the parts of the movie that carry any resonance are the things that Tyler Durden says and does. The movie sets out to make Tyler's philosophy seem attractive to help the audience understand why he was able to gather a following, but the movie doesn't afford the same appeal to pointing out the ugly side of it. The biggest point in the movie that's supposed to drive home the danger of Tyler Durden's philosophy is the death of Robert Paulsen, but all anyone remembers from that scene is "His name is Robert Paulsen", which may subtly point out the absurdity that Project Mayhem had become, but when people quote it, it's humorous because it's a (perhaps unintentionally) funny scene and Robert Paulsen is made out to be a humorous character.

Aside from that, the worst Project Mayhem does is blow up a bunch of buildings that Tyler assures the audience had no people in them. So a substantial portion of the audience walks away feeling like Project Mayhem had some good ideas (read "quotable one-liners") but took them too far. My generation found a lot of the basic ideas (commercialism is bad, social conventions are stupid, messing with society is fun) appealing and thus could easily ignore or overlook the parts where everything goes to shit. It certainly didn't help that the entire third act is dedicated to the twist of the movie rather than solely focusing on the resolution of the Project Mayhem franchise.

So yeah, people who walk away positively quoting Tyler Durden are definitely missing the intended purpose of the movie, but it's only because the movie didn't do a very good job making its intentions as emotionally resonant as the stuff we were supposed to come away dismissing as manipulative bullshit.

Not to mention that much of Durden's philosophy isn't bad in and of itself - it's the unblinking plunge into excess that makes the whole thing go south.

It wouldn't have mattered either whether the movie dedicated its entire third act to condemning the results of unchecked masochistic nihilism - just look over to Scarface for a confirmation. Doing so would merely ruin the tone, and rob us of one of the more hilarious movie endings. (The last 5 seconds or so before credits roll)

For Fight Club, fans rally to it because they feel it gives them something easy to blame for whatever issues they have with modern living. Hate your job? Must be because you're a conformist sheep brainwashed to believe your life can't be complete without consumer goods. Yeah, that's it. Tyler uses the traditional myth of the macho manly man as a kind of spiritual ideal even as he (un)knowingly(?) transforms that ideal into the same soul-crushing conformity it became in the 1950's where gender-roles were slowly changing and rather than adapt the old guard enacted a campaign of rigid uniformity, ultimately dooming the very ideals they hoped to preserve to a slow extinction in the hands of the Rich White Right and their Poor Misinformed constituents.

MovieBob:
And though absurdity, irony and dark comedy are never far from the frame, Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, The Departed, etc. aren't what anyone would think of when they think of their favorite funny movies.

I dunno - I find Goodfellas to be completely hilarious. It's in my top five favourite movie list, and I consider it a comedy more than anything else. The only other film that's funny in my top five is A Clockwork Orange - but I don't think of that as a comedy as I do with Goodfellas.

Akichi Daikashima:

amaranth_dru:
But then there're people who think Walter White is a hero too so, shows you how messed up people's thought processes can be

Aww...

Well, I never thought that he was a hero, just that he was never the "greatest evil" that a lot of people made him out to be, to me, Tuco was just plain satanic because he enjoyed the pain and misery he was causing, whereas White only ever did such things out of necessity, or deperately tried to rationalise his decisions.

Not a person I'd want to be with (S5) for any extended period of time, but certainly not a person that I would tremble in fear out of.

OT: I really want to go see this movie, even if it wasn't "all that", Scorcese still makes it worth seeing alone.

Don't get me wrong, I love Breaking Bad. But if you watch Walt closely, his actions are all selfish as hell. While Tuco was a psychopath, thats a different form of evil. To me the worst form of evil is the one that attempts to justify its actions rationally.


Thats why I feel he isn't even an Anti-Hero. Jesse was the real Anti-Hero in my opinion.

amaranth_dru:

Akichi Daikashima:

amaranth_dru:
But then there're people who think Walter White is a hero too so, shows you how messed up people's thought processes can be

Aww...

Well, I never thought that he was a hero, just that he was never the "greatest evil" that a lot of people made him out to be, to me, Tuco was just plain satanic because he enjoyed the pain and misery he was causing, whereas White only ever did such things out of necessity, or deperately tried to rationalise his decisions.

Not a person I'd want to be with (S5) for any extended period of time, but certainly not a person that I would tremble in fear out of.

OT: I really want to go see this movie, even if it wasn't "all that", Scorcese still makes it worth seeing alone.

Don't get me wrong, I love Breaking Bad. But if you watch Walt closely, his actions are all selfish as hell. While Tuco was a psychopath, thats a different form of evil. To me the worst form of evil is the one that attempts to justify its actions rationally.


Thats why I feel he isn't even an Anti-Hero. Jesse was the real Anti-Hero in my opinion.

I don't know, I usually file his actions under:

I wouldn't classify him as anti-hero, I do agree that he has fallen a bit too much, but by the end, he redeems himself in a way:

Jesse though, was never an anti-hero, he was always the underdog, and the moral compass of the series, in a way, he is the reason that Walter doesn't go full psycho.

I don't know really, it could be that it's just me who thinks that Walter isn't that evil, and in comparison to the other bad guys of the series, he is nowhere close to the likes of:

These comments are oddly philosophical, or maybe not considering the internet is a medium for discussion.

I think something that never really comes up in these movies is that numbers kill and empathy is why you don't do bad things. There should be at least one of these movies that brings up and goes in depth about the people who die and have horrible lives directly as a consequence of selfish powerful people. That's the real evil that isn't explored in movies about gangsters and such.

King of Comedy is hilarious. I don't care what you say Bob.

I think people here have absolutely no idea why precisely Tyler Durden is such a resonant character...

Alandoril:
I think people here have absolutely no idea why precisely Tyler Durden is such a resonant character...

You know, after saying something like that it's a good idea to actually explain your opinion, otherwise you risk sounding like a pretentious douchebag.

For me, Tyler's point of existence in AND out of the movie is summed up by one sentence "I'm all you ever wanted to be but couldn't."

Akichi Daikashima:

amaranth_dru:

Akichi Daikashima:

Aww...

Well, I never thought that he was a hero, just that he was never the "greatest evil" that a lot of people made him out to be, to me, Tuco was just plain satanic because he enjoyed the pain and misery he was causing, whereas White only ever did such things out of necessity, or deperately tried to rationalise his decisions.

Not a person I'd want to be with (S5) for any extended period of time, but certainly not a person that I would tremble in fear out of.

OT: I really want to go see this movie, even if it wasn't "all that", Scorcese still makes it worth seeing alone.

Don't get me wrong, I love Breaking Bad. But if you watch Walt closely, his actions are all selfish as hell. While Tuco was a psychopath, thats a different form of evil. To me the worst form of evil is the one that attempts to justify its actions rationally.


Thats why I feel he isn't even an Anti-Hero. Jesse was the real Anti-Hero in my opinion.

I don't know, I usually file his actions under:

I wouldn't classify him as anti-hero, I do agree that he has fallen a bit too much, but by the end, he redeems himself in a way:

Jesse though, was never an anti-hero, he was always the underdog, and the moral compass of the series, in a way, he is the reason that Walter doesn't go full psycho.

I don't know really, it could be that it's just me who thinks that Walter isn't that evil, and in comparison to the other bad guys of the series, he is nowhere close to the likes of:

Yeah but

This reminds me of that mob paradoy film from the 90s. WTF was its name?

ZippyDSMlee:
This reminds me of that mob paradoy film from the 90s. WTF was its name?

You mean Johnny Dangerously?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087507/
Or maybe Mafia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia!

Pilfering from Mark Twain, Bob? :(

Fight Club worked because, tragically, it was right. People will slurp up whatever prepackaged dreck is placed in front of them. That blind adherence to the path of least (intellectual) resistance is comforting, or something. So, Tyler tells them what they should think, and that's the route they go. Like apocryphal lemmings looking for a cliff.

dangoball:

Alandoril:
I think people here have absolutely no idea why precisely Tyler Durden is such a resonant character...

You know, after saying something like that it's a good idea to actually explain your opinion, otherwise you risk sounding like a pretentious douchebag.

For me, Tyler's point of existence in AND out of the movie is summed up by one sentence "I'm all you ever wanted to be but couldn't."

Tyler is wish fulfillment. And, he's at least as toxic as any other wish fulfillment character. At least Palahniuk seems aware of that. I'm not sure how much of it's intentional. Fight Club always left me with a vague feeling that it's smarter than it's supposed to be. And any kind of serious analysis of it always leaves me feeling slightly dishonest. *shrugs*

 

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