No Right Answer: Videogame That Should be an MMO

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solemnwar:

Rainbow_Dashtruction:
A fallout MMO is impossible. Too many people in a world that is supposed to be very much dead. Fallout 3 and New Vegas had a lot of people already, nearly too many people.

Uh. The Fallout games are about humanity rebuilding after an apocalypse. It's not about a world that's dead/dying, it's about a world that's rebuilding. New Vegas takes place a couple centuries after the fall of the bombs, and in an area where the damage was limited. Not to mention the long-established new government that was slowly expanding over the last couple centuries (NCR), leading to stability, better and more food, and therefore more people.

The first two fallouts had quite a few people, especially the second one (which takes place 80 years after the first one, so humanity has had more time to rebuild).

Not that I think an MMO would be a good idea- I do not. But I'm not a big fan of MMOs to begin with, preferring single player play, so I'm not a good person to talk about that lol.

Ok I mostly agree with you. The only thing I'd have to say is that IF a M.M.O were made from Fallout it would have to be it's own " thing " meaning it SHOULDN'T be cannon. A non-cannon Fallout M.M.O is something I could support so long as it is separate from the main story. Whether it should or shouldn't be made is debatable at best. At least you admit that M.M.O's isn't something that you have an interest in so I won't stress that point. I'm not even into M.M.O's myself however if they made a non-canon Fallout M.M.O I might change my mind ( depending on how well it is made ).

I can see a Fallout "MMO" working kind of like the same way DayZ does. Massive map, small servers.

DayZ is obviously not really an MMO, but add some RPG elements and it'll be close.

I absolutely detest the idea of a Fallout MMO. I would welcome a multiplayer option, specifically co-op play, which would be amazing(with turn based as a required option).
However, an MMO would utterly ruin it. Others have already mentioned that the amount of players would ruin it, but it goes much deeper than that. In Fallout, you've always been alone. You had companions, you could forge shaky alliances and join other factions, but in the end, it always came down to you, your choices, your actions and your negotiations.
MMO's inherently *ruin* that experience, they have a tentative grip on immersion as it is and Fallout absolutely lives off of immersion and atmosphere, which is something I've very rarely experienced in MMO's, apart from my first experience, but only because it was unique and because roleplaying was an integral part of it back then(EverQuest for me).

Let me repeat, Fallout lives off of immersion and atmosphere. Making an MMO out of it would be an absolute catastrophe and would damage the IP severely, scaring off potential investors in future projects.

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Mass Effect on the other hand, is perfectly suited for an MMO. It sounds like a positive, but I would dread seeing it and would much prefer any other project based on the IP.
I have to admit, especially after playing as much Star Trek Online as I have recently, that a casual space MMO works just fine and switching between space and ground combat is a good concept.

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The discussion is dead from the start, since MMO's have become extremely stale and are basically skinner boxes that feeds off of you doing repetative tasks to become more powerful, so that you can do higher level repetative tasks. Long time viewers of Extra Credits know exactly what I mean. Even EVE online does this to a certain extent, though it gives you far more options to have fun with the game.

I would like to refer to this video which does a far better job of explaining what's wrong and what the industry should aim for, than I could ever hope to do.
Basically MMO projects are huge investments with poor quality gameplay that feeds off of addiction and drawn out gameplay. That needs to drastically change to something completely different.

Currently, all popular MMO's lack a sense of self-preservation. They're too easy, there's hardly any punishment, you barely lose anything, if anything at all and you're allowed to just respawn and try again.
A few MMO's allow you to build things and add something to the world, perhaps something significant; This is also extremely important.

In my opinion, the scale of MMO's are too big today. There is a sea of people with really bad behaviour and a lot of people that you could really do without. STO peaked my interest, because it's a niche nerd group that not everyone appreciates and so it has a fairly benign and friendly atmosphere to it.
This is how I want my MMO experience to be; Friendly, respectful and comfortable, but to do that it requires a much lower limit on the amount of people who can play on one server or instance.
I would suggest allowing private servers with admission by invitation, moderated by the players who founded the server, with the power to boot players out. It would obviously be abused by some, but it's not impossible to limit the exploitation and set requirements for moderators(such as age, same name account owner and credit card holder, good standing rating etc). It would cut down on bad behaviour, spamming, scammers and the other unwanted crap that you're subjected to in your average MMO.

We've already seen playermade content in STO and Neverwinter Nights(something I proposed before WoW came out, which many said couldn't be done), that allows for new experiences and challenges; rich content that can be rated and keep you entertained until new developer content comes out.

There are so many things that can make an MMO truly great and all it requires is to challenge your players in a different way than having them grind themselves to death, to achieve petty upgrades. Players don't even need upgrades or prestige to find an excuse to play, as long as they have fun, which is something all MMO's have completely dismissed as a viable part of their strategy to keep you invested.

So if we saw some basic common sense in new MMO's and not just the exploitation of an IP used as an excuse to dress up a skinner box, there might be some amazing opportunities out there, not just financially, but to evolve gaming to a higher level.

I officially declare No Right Answer on this discussion, for what IP would be a good MMO, since the premise of an MMO is flawed by default, in it's present state.
I win. Shut up. ;)

Ehhh... I think MMO-ifying either of those properties is not the answer, I mean we saw what happened last time the studio that created Mass Effect made an MMO. Remember, they're still labouring under Evilness Associates.

The thing about the MMO, to me at least, is that it's almost impossible to design one these days that isn't about gouging as much money from the player as possible, whether it's subscription based or a cash shop psychologically pressuring you to open up your wallet and let the producers nickel-and-dime you to death, it's less about providing an enjoyable experience for the player than providing a steady cashflow.

You see this with the very design fundamentals of an MMO, wasting your time and stretching out content into a samey grind to keep you playing longer, thus either running out more time on your monthly subscription, or wearing on your patience to get some cash shop stuff to make things go faster or get rid of annoyingly walled-off content and features.

I mean I'm all for the underlying idea of an MMO, a sense of community and co-operation, a large group of players working together and exploring a large world filled with mysteries and goodies, but that aspect just seems to come second to developers these days.

Plus... Fallout, really? It's meant to be a solitary wander through a post-apocalyptic wasteland, loneliness is part of the equation, and while always-on PVP would certainly make it a suitably hostile world, the immersion in bleakness would be damaged somewhat by the ridiculous names and endless horrible chatlog.

I would say a Pokémon MMO is probably the most likely to happen...but it might signal the fall of the franchise. *gets looks* I will explain.

The reason why it's likely to happen is that eventually the Pokémon games will become too big for their britches. By that...I mean memory space on a cartridge. Sure they gone from fitting 251 Pokémon (plus features) on a 2" by 2" cartridge to fitting 721 of them (plus a CRAPTON of features) on something the size of a postage stamp...but you can only fit so much data and compress it so far before you run out of room and can't do anymore. Heck...X&Y actually had some bad glitches pop up from the Lumiose save glitch to the Snorlax glitch. Eventually, if there are future installments, the games will eventually have to be put on much larger media...such as the Wii U or even the PC.

Unfortunately, it's at THAT point that one of the biggest selling points of the game will be lost: portability. Once the game becomes so big it can no longer be played on a handheld and must be played on the PC or even a console, not a lot of people will be interested since they can no longer take it with them wherever they wish to go. In fact, I suspect this is one of the reasons why the Gamecube games were not very well received with some gamers DESPITE having a somewhat badass protagonist in Colloseum. (I rather liked that, personally. At least we weren't playing some bright-eyed kid.)

Anyways...just my two Pokéyen on the subject...

PirateRose:
Up until ME3 the Bioware team had no idea what female Salarians, Turians, or Krogan would look like. Considering two of these three were wearing space burkas for no explained reasons(what is lore?), I'm willing to bet they still haven't figured out how the females are suppose to look like cause their design team's minds are too wrapped around tits and ass defining what is female.

I thought the Krogan "Space Burkha" was actually well designed and very consistent with lore. ME lore is very clear about how isolationary the female clans are; even going so far as to recruit a male representative. It would therefore make sense for the females to try to perpetuate that isolation and distance when they have to make an appearance in person. Also of note is that whilst the Krogan "space burkha" is concealing, it is still suitable for combat; the robe ends above the knee, allowing for mobility, whilst the head is covered by several metallic components which likely act as additional armour.

Man, that cupcake thing was so goddamn terrible. That has to be the worst case of passive aggressive "fan" bullshit ever.

Jandau:
Nope. Nope. All aboard the nope train. There are no games that would be better off as MMOs. There are, however, plenty of MMOs that would be better off as regular games. Secret World, The Old Republic, Warhammer Online, etc. etc.

This, this, so much this. I was so disappointed when it turned out there wouldn't be a KotoR3, but instead a boring mmorpg. Same with Warhammer online. It's a very large universe with great lore, it would be so simple to make a great RPG out of it. Instead, lame mmorpg.
Gods.

Jandau:
Nope. Nope. All aboard the nope train. There are no games that would be better off as MMOs. There are, however, plenty of MMOs that would be better off as regular games. Secret World, The Old Republic, Warhammer Online, etc. etc.

Wow, I was ninja'd by the first post. Gosh darned super ninjas

But yeah, what he said. MMORPGs are a dead genre. Nothing will ever top WoW. The only MMO's that can work now are non-rpg ones and even then, you should just make a new ip for those.

I personally think that Mass Effect should be an MMO because there would be more races to play as beyond: Do you want to be a human or a ghoul

Honestly, I would get pissed if they made either into an MMO, look at what they did with KOTOR, that sucks. And I'm sure ESO will be standard WoW style, so no thanks. MMO's are just cash cows.

solemnwar:

Rainbow_Dashtruction:
A fallout MMO is impossible. Too many people in a world that is supposed to be very much dead. Fallout 3 and New Vegas had a lot of people already, nearly too many people.

Uh. The Fallout games are about humanity rebuilding after an apocalypse. It's not about a world that's dead/dying, it's about a world that's rebuilding. New Vegas takes place a couple centuries after the fall of the bombs, and in an area where the damage was limited. Not to mention the long-established new government that was slowly expanding over the last couple centuries (NCR), leading to stability, better and more food, and therefore more people.

The first two fallouts had quite a few people, especially the second one (which takes place 80 years after the first one, so humanity has had more time to rebuild).

Not that I think an MMO would be a good idea- I do not. But I'm not a big fan of MMOs to begin with, preferring single player play, so I'm not a good person to talk about that lol.

Really? I always felt the Fallout series, including the first two and tactics, were about humans just trying to plod along long enough to die from old age, with the main character always initially representing a savior of sorts who can finally fix or at least repair the condition the surrounding area has put themselves into and by the end is shown to simply have achieved nothing really important in the long run, with every sequel showing your efforts either achieved nothing or caused more problems. Not refilling the bowl of water, but instead just spinning the water still inside.

Basically, its a series about futility, and lack of change.

I'll use the first game as an example, because its the easiest to explain. At the beginning, your sent out to get the water chip to save your vault so you can live a good life. You then save your vault, and they kick you out, the one person capable of defending them when they get inevitably attacked or break another part. You also attempt to wipe out the super mutants, which you succeed, but you discover that it hasn't actually stopped them being created. You also save Shady Sands in the least noticeable but biggest affecting thing you do in the entire series, by teaching them crop rotation, which in turn causes them to eventually become NCR, who also intitially represent change, but instead reveal themselves to be simply the problems of captialism from before the nukes simply born again. Everything else you did has practically no affect on the world at all, and everything you did that actually did cause change, has simply caused the lack of change.

Nothing will change, your efforts are futile, and the very thing preventing humanity from progressing is humanity itself. That is what Fallout is about.

Did you just said its a company that everyone wants to see suceed in making MMOs? Really? Are you mad?

Jandau:
Nope. Nope. All aboard the nope train. There are no games that would be better off as MMOs. There are, however, plenty of MMOs that would be better off as regular games. Secret World, The Old Republic, Warhammer Online, etc. etc.

This. Again, this.
The only games that should be an MMO are the ones that are designed from ground up to be a MMO. All other games should not be a MMO.
The MMO mania will drop. The bubble has bursted, time to stop this "Everything must be MMO" thing. I mean heck even Elder
Scrolls got that problem now, when all we wanted was able to get a few friends into the world.

RatGouf:
On the other hand though I'd like to play single player versions of EverQuest & World Of Warcraft whether on consoles or PC.... Well PC due to dirty mods.... Hello Female NPC Ratongas & Female NPC Worgens!....

You... can. Its kind of threading the legal boundary there but you could set up a private server and play alone in it. And you can modify it, thought i havent looked into how easy or hard it is to modify private servers for these games.

I'd love to be able to play fallout with my friends, but not in the way of the MMO... I don't want random people doing the stupid and immersion-breaking shit that random people are prone to do, and I wouldn't want the gameplay of the recent fallout games compromised by the many changes that a game has to make in order to even BE an MMO. For a perfect example, see Elder Scrolls Online. No, I don't much care for that game... It's fine that people do, I don't really care, but that isn't for me. I'd just like Skyrim and/or Fallout as they are now, but with the added ability to party up with a friend or two when I want to.

Jandau:
Nope. Nope. All aboard the nope train. There are no games that would be better off as MMOs. There are, however, plenty of MMOs that would be better off as regular games. Secret World, The Old Republic, Warhammer Online, etc. etc.

Couldn't have said it better. MMO's always seem to lack a certain polish to me, I play some Guild Wars 2 with friends, I get the appeal, but I never have all that much fun with the games themselves, it's the people I'm playing with that make it okay.

Jandau:
Nope. Nope. All aboard the nope train. There are no games that would be better off as MMOs. There are, however, plenty of MMOs that would be better off as regular games. Secret World, The Old Republic, Warhammer Online, etc. etc.

I'm on board.

I loved Knights of the old republic but instead of giving us a new one, fresh story, new worlds and more lightsabers, we got The Old republic and while not bad it's just not scratching that itch.

So I'd rather not see fallout go through the same. As for Mass Effect; EA already defiled Bioware so they can keep it.

As for what Dan said. Yes people want a new Fallout game. That doesn't mean it has to be an MMO!

Too many good singleplayer games now "have" to be changed into Multiplayer only... :(

IMO it's not the subscription system that is dead. EVE online has been out there for 10 years and it has more playerbase than ever (which on the other hand, hasn't ever been millions of players).
Games tend to get boring and you stop playing. I stopped playing Dark Souls, Portal or Dead Space after the second playthrugh, yet I would recommend them any day.

It's the general concept of "Big world where you are told to be the most greatest hero, just like any of the other 100 guys that have come around here today. Now go fetch me 20 bear asses" that will eventually wither and die.

The MMOs thriving today are the ones that don't have this random, inconsequential quests to find in the world, and instead it either puts you on the reigns of change, or it's a mix between singleplayer adventures and multiplayer cooperation (GW2).

Loki_The_Good:

thetoddo:
I'm down for D&D, start with one of the established worlds (say Faerun), then release xpacs with Krynn and all the rest, then the Spelljammer expansion hits and all the nerds die of fangasms.

You do know there are currently 2 D&d mmos D&D online which is based off the 3.5 rule set and is set in Eberron I believe and Neverwinter based (loosely) on the 4.0 rule set and taking place in never winter obviously.

And I hear that both suck (personally experienced the suckiness of the first one. Couldn't get past the first escort mission).

GamemasterAnthony:
snip

While Pokemon MMOs is, for one, an idea I would love to see come true, I see it highly unlikely: It's nintendo. Have they ever made a PC game, much less a MMO?

NoAccountNeeded:

Jandau:
Nope. Nope. All aboard the nope train. There are no games that would be better off as MMOs. There are, however, plenty of MMOs that would be better off as regular games. Secret World, The Old Republic, Warhammer Online, etc. etc.

If Star Wars wasn't enough of an IP to bank an MMO on, it's pretty clear that IP alone isn't enough to make an MMO work, even if the game is fairly polished.

Until Blizzard finishes dethroning itself (about 5ish years, maybe, given their subscriber trajectory), the themepark model is just too crowded. After the first month or two, what mostly matters are gameplay, content, and community. WoW has more of the latter, and they've had hundreds of millions of dollars to sink into developing it. Your bootstrap team just isn't going to have the output of a dev studio funded by 7 million subscribers.

The one thing WoW can't really do much on is gameplay. Sure, they can and do riff off the odd feature here and there, but they can't deviate from their highly profitable niche without alienating their huge fanbase. If you really want to compete, you'd have to look at what Blizzard won't add into WoW, because there's little they don't have the money and talent to build. A great example being Eve and their merciless, persistent sandbox. Not something WoW could ever add, but has enough subscribers to build a business off of because it's offering something that World of Warcraft simply isn't going to.

umm SWTOR is the second largest western MMO right now it has over 1 million players (about 500k subs and 500k free players) and is actually making more money now then it was when it had 1.2 million subs.

wait did you just say WoW is a niche? Do you know what the word Niche means?

you are saying now EVE is the future? Sandbox really? You have to be kidding?

Wesley Brannock:
This is what pops into my mind every time I hear of a " New " Mass Effect Game.

I was open to the idea of a Mass Effect M.M.O game BEFORE Mass Effect 3 was released. However the damage that E.A Games has done is something that I WON'T forgive or forget.

Though I would say that at least for the time being I'm still open to the idea of a Fallout M.M.O game. If only for the reason that Bethesda game studio hasn't yet ruined the Fallout series for me ( I say " yet " since I don't discount the possibility of them doing so ). I will however wait for CONFIRMED INFORMATION. I don't like the idea of going off of pure rumor since it can raise hopes without merit. Now when or if I get CONFIRMED INFORMATION of a Fallout game from Bethesda I'll be all like.

I'm even open to the idea of the Fallout game being a M.M.O so long as it ISN'T considered " cannon ".

However if the Fallout M.M.O were considered " cannon ", or if it was as bad as Mass Effect 3, or if the non-M.M.O game was as bad as Mass Effect 3 then this would be my reaction.

Though I seriously doubt that will be the case.

omg let the nerd rage go.

ME3 was great the only downer was the ending was a let down. The game itself was amazing.

Crimson Skies. Oh Crimson Skies oh so much.

I find the MMO market just hard to look at anymore.

I'd rather see games with the size and scope of an MMO simply be 4-to-6 multiplayer local or online. I'll use Skyrim as an example. Just like that game, except you are able to host and save your progress and three other friends can connect to you online, giving you the entire open world to yourselves. Imagine if it were made in this way to allow group multiplayer online. One of you is the Dragonborn and three others are your travelling companions. You could all split up and go anywhere alone but difficulty rebalancing would dictate that it's crucial to stay together as a party. And, of course, even though it's about the Dragonborn, the narrative could be altered enough to make the other three players have crucial roles as well.

Another road less traveled is the inclusion of multiplayer in traditional RPGs by which I mean the more old-school stuff where you control a party of characters in turn-based menu-driven battle. That could be adjusted in such a away to allow 4 people (local and online) to each be one of the characters in the party and choose their actions in combat. So everyone would have to really talk it out as they go if there were things like combining spells or whoever has the higher initiative/agility to go before an injured member so they can heal them. Player 1 would control where the party goes outside of combat in the overworld/dungeons and everyone could have freedom of movement in towns/safe areas to go shopping for supplies and equipment at the same time.

It sounds kind of niche but these are the things that would intrigue me more than another monotonous MMO grind-fest with a popular franchise name tacked onto it.

You realize that there is already a Fallout MMO, here is the forum for one of the newest servers: http://forum.fonline2.com/

Jandau:
Nope. Nope. All aboard the nope train. There are no games that would be better off as MMOs. There are, however, plenty of MMOs that would be better off as regular games. Secret World, The Old Republic, Warhammer Online, etc. etc.

I don't entirely agree, but Most games that are mmo's I think would be better as singleplayer (the old rebblic would have been better as a solo focused game, imo). whatever they do I hope they do NOT do a mass effects mmo, mass effect is a heavily charachter and story focused game, even the best of mmo's can't do good story the way the mass effects games did. I don't understand people's obsession with mmo's and open world games. (I may be one of the few who would prefer large open levels in a game like mirrors edge 2 than an open world game)

bobdole1979:

Wesley Brannock:
This is what pops into my mind every time I hear of a " New " Mass Effect Game.

I was open to the idea of a Mass Effect M.M.O game BEFORE Mass Effect 3 was released. However the damage that E.A Games has done is something that I WON'T forgive or forget.

Though I would say that at least for the time being I'm still open to the idea of a Fallout M.M.O game. If only for the reason that Bethesda game studio hasn't yet ruined the Fallout series for me ( I say " yet " since I don't discount the possibility of them doing so ). I will however wait for CONFIRMED INFORMATION. I don't like the idea of going off of pure rumor since it can raise hopes without merit. Now when or if I get CONFIRMED INFORMATION of a Fallout game from Bethesda I'll be all like.

I'm even open to the idea of the Fallout game being a M.M.O so long as it ISN'T considered " cannon ".

However if the Fallout M.M.O were considered " cannon ", or if it was as bad as Mass Effect 3, or if the non-M.M.O game was as bad as Mass Effect 3 then this would be my reaction.

Though I seriously doubt that will be the case.

omg let the nerd rage go.

ME3 was great the only downer was the ending was a let down. The game itself was amazing.

You are free to your opinion on the game. However the reason why I play R.P.G's is to play the side missions and to interact with characters / story ( to which both were sacrificed for D.L.C / fetch quests ). The greatest feature to Mass Effect 1-2 were the conversation wheel more importantly the third option they gave you to be neutral. This was also taken away and replaced with auto dialog BREAKING ALL the IMMERSION in the game. But that is only two of my complaints about the game to see the full list see these videos.

Now to address my " nerd rage " I will let it go when people just let Mass Effect go away. I don't want to hear about it or see it. This game was a let down and if you think my complaint is just about the ending you'll need to.

If done right, Mass Effect could be a truly great MMO. As was said, there are multiple species, but what wasn't gone into was that each one carries with it different histories, belief and politics. They have also been put in a position where muh more of them have to interact with former enemies than they ever have before. It was said the story ended with Shepard, but that was only the end of Shepard's story. Now the galaxy is in chaos. The Citadel is in ruins. Who knows how many have died, but what about the species who lived in the Terminus Systems? I doubt all of them got involved in the fight against the reapers. What if pirating becomes a thing now that defences are down everywhere? That could be a renegade option, or theft or murder? Everything is basically in chaos now, so really, the possibilities are kind of endless. Some could be extremely violent and dark, but endless.

Kelly Attwell:
If done right, Mass Effect could be a truly great MMO. As was said, there are multiple species, but what wasn't gone into was that each one carries with it different histories, belief and politics. They have also been put in a position where muh more of them have to interact with former enemies than they ever have before. It was said the story ended with Shepard, but that was only the end of Shepard's story. Now the galaxy is in chaos. The Citadel is in ruins. Who knows how many have died, but what about the species who lived in the Terminus Systems? I doubt all of them got involved in the fight against the reapers. What if pirating becomes a thing now that defences are down everywhere? That could be a renegade option, or theft or murder? Everything is basically in chaos now, so really, the possibilities are kind of endless. Some could be extremely violent and dark, but endless.

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