To Hell With Comments

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Smilomaniac:
What worries me more than comments, is that they're being disabled on major youtube channels. While I understand that the biggest reason is scamming and bad links, some channels like Nerdcubed prefer not to have them at all and are just sick of of them.

I will not pretend to tell these creators that they should have them enabled or that it will even do any good, but it's a short term solution at best. Without feedback, they're closing off a vital source that will inevitably change the content, for better or worse, the latter which the creator should be able to forsee and avoid.

Nerd^3 uses a Subreddit for his comments, so he still sees the feedback to his videos.

OT: I don't know about this article. It seems odd, when earlier in the year Yahtzee went and changed a joke in his video due in no small part to comments on the video. I think that he is making a rather blanket statement to a specific problem, and to be honest comments are often quite annoying to see when you don't need them.

I find it very funny that someone who relies on an Audience to value his "comments", complaining about comments. Mayhaps someones in the wrong profession?

Mike Fang:
The thing is, I'm not going by just this one article. I'm also looking at a number of his previous works, both EP and ZP, where he's displayed an embittered, cynical, and sullenly hateful attitude. Granted, sometimes he's played it for laughs, but the consistency of it makes me seriously question how much is honestly for laughs and how much is just him being honestly venomous because that's his customary outlook on life and people in general.

Listen to his Youtube series called "Let's Drown Out..." where it's basically just him and a friend chatting for a couple of hours. It becomes pretty clear that he really is just like that in real life, it's not an act:

http://fullyramblomatic-yahtzee.blogspot.com.au

And yeah, the irony is intense, because it's essentially him just making comments on whatever he wants to comment on, with no editorial or quality control, no repercussions, etc. I think the problem is that he's just so used to having a soapbox, and having the whole world listen to his comments, that he doesn't have any need for a comments section, as he can easily broadcast his own thoughts to the whole world.

The rest of us don't have that luxury, and it's not a question of competence or qualifications - it's just that the rest of us do not have such a mouthpiece because we have other jobs.

1) Isn't he a person who is trained to comment on things
2) Comments, themselves, are in 'comment sections' for a reason
3) They can be disabled and/or turned off as he directly states but then chooses not to
4) Reviews, comments and conversations can be useful for reviewing product and/or building a portfolio (I've followed comment links to many online artists)
5) Nobody cares and everybody knows that already. Ironically it's why comments can be so open.
6) You don't care, but some people who watch/read comments, but don't comment all the time, may find this article rude. Please don't upper twat your lower twats

As we all know, discouraging discourse because the majority of people are idiots is exactly how to make the world a better place.

Y'know. Like in politics. Let's make it so no-one gets a vote, perhaps, because most people make the wrong vote. Right? And criticism! Let's go onto Youtube, for example, and launch copyright strikes on every single video critiquing a movie, game, book, or person. Because most of them are going to be wrong! So we should just, you know, get rid of everything. I mean the slim possibility that someone is actually going to be calm and intelligent isn't worth taking a chance on, as we all know.

Great idea Yahtzee! I think I'll enjoy this new internet.

Well, I think [COMMENT DELETED]

EDIT: No. You know what? f it. Enjoy your day, Mr. Croshaw.

nickpy:

Scrumpmonkey:
This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.

This place is infected with facebook? really? I didn't think Escapist could stoop that low, I really didn't, and now I feel betrayed! Then again... I suppose it doesn't actually affect me since I have a plugin in my browser which forcibly removes all social media plugins from all websites, which is why I didn't know this place had succumbed.

Can somebody link me to this plugin? Preferably in PM? I'm using chrome btw, though a firefox version wouldn't be entirely useless.

Dragonbums:
What the hell kind of rant is this?

This basically says fuck comments because mine is clearly superior. Have you ever thought that there are other journalists out there who think your own articles are nothing but paid trash content on a website? And what is stopping the unwashed commenter pleebs from simply posting their own stuff on their own blogs.

If find it funny that you have people hating Anita for say- blocking comments on Youtube on her videos, yet here we are all more or less agreeing with you that we should admonish comments because you don't deem them worthy. This is especially true in the journalism business where feedback is pretty damn important.

Your entire article basically says- My words are more important than yours because I get paid to do it. Yours means nothing therefore I don't want to see it.

You then proceed to complain even more about the stupid comments feature in SM3DW. If it really bothered you that much, just turn it off.

Likewise, if you really hated the Gampad for Pikmin, then use the blasted Wii mote instead of complaining about how annoying it is when you had the option to use an alternative the entire time you played the game for review.

Objectable:
image
"He hates unfunny hecklers?"
"His self loathing must be starting to manifest!"
"DOHOHOOHOHOHOHOHO"
image

these two combined made my day. It's an internet community. Comment sections are forums. You're basically saying shut up people who say things i don't like.

Well tough. Suck it up yahtzee. Everyone has as much right to express, however stupidily, their opinions as much as you do. If you're even half the person you claim to be, you have the mental fortitude to pick through the flotsam and jetsam like the rest of us. Really, anyone would think you were having a hissy fit.

On the upside, well trolled for being paid to do that.

Objectable:

Okay, that made me laugh. :D

Yahtzee basically saying "I'm right, because I get paid for it." is utter nonsense. There's was just one good point made there: that people shouldn't get other people's opinions forced on them by a service or game or whatever. That's just damn obnoxious.

I wonder if Yahtzee had a bad day? Maybe he got some negative reviews for his game and book and is unhappy about it

The rating thing in AC4 was fine, it wasnt forced on you and you had no obligation to do it. But with people moaning about "another AC game" maybe these people should use the rating system so the next AC game is structured around gameplay you want. Plus its easier to get real time feedback about the levels after you have played them, because you can make a decision based on your emotion after just playing it. A lot easier and useful than asking people to fill in a questionnaire online a month later. But when you think about it, they could have made you unable to continue until you did rate the level? lol

*Response to egregious hypocrisy censored by self*

Mike Fang:
Another EP where Yahtzee shows us that side of himself that proves that the hyperbole he uses to put down his own audience is, in reality, exactly how he feels. No, people, he's not just saying those things because he's trying to be entertaining, he really DOES think 99% of us are shit. He thinks it of me and he thinks it of you. Yes, YOU, whoever-is-reading-this-at-the-time, don't think your on his special not-shit-list, because you are, along with the rest of us. It's times like this I really feel misgivings about watching his stuff. He's entertaining and often informative, but by God, he can also be bitter and hateful.

I think he's stated numerous times that he's a bit of a pessimist and that he's better off believing everything is shit rather than everything is great because he'll either be justified or pleasantly surprised in the end.

While, at times, I do agree with his viewpoints, and I do take interest in his various indie projects and other works (though I have yet to read Mogworld or Jam), I can't say I'm too big a fan of his demeanor. I mean, when he's using it to its full comedic potential in ZP, it can get good, and I mean REALLY GOOD, but when it's raw and untempered like this rant... it's just a window to his mind, and it's a rather depressing one.

I'll still love Yahtzee regardless, even if the feeling is far from mutual.

The salt on display when people are reminded that no one actually gives a shit about the crap they post in the comments sections... delicious.

Now, since, as usually, escapists are missing the point like champs...

If I am a painter and I expose my painting in a gallery...

-I am free to read or the articles the local critics decide on their own time and media to make about it;
-I am free to engage in conversations with people who want to give me their opinions, at my discretion, pacing and leisure.
-I am free to read any written feedback that is sent my way if and when I should decide to do so.
-I AM NOT expected to deliver my painting in a 10m-wide passe-partout in order to allow everyone that feels like so to go on and scribble their rambling right next to my work without my consent or any regard on how adequate said rambling is.

Can you spot the difference?

The whole argument is moot when the comments section is something you can read or ignore by choice...
The comments section is no different than a group of friends, or strangers leaving a theater talking about their favorite parts of a movie, or in Yahtzees case a comedy club. EVERYONE talks about what they saw because they're excited and showing that is something humans do.
Even an anti-social mongoloid, I understand this, yes there's the experience you have in the theater but no on is in there repeating things stated as it's going. It's not the same.

Regardless of intelligence, age, excitement people like talking about crap, tech, shows or whatever, they're gonna do it, ya don't want to be apart of it? Then just don't read the bloody comments section. It's not about being a part of the show or as important as the entertainers, it's expressing enjoyment of the medium.

What?!
You could say the exact same thing about Reviews, those fucking uninformed leeches that think hey can "Analyse" a game jus because they have a Camera and a mic (or Cynicism and the ability to doodle things), fuck em' right in their smug ass!
This Article is stupid.

The worst part about this column is that Yahtzee himself has already seen for himself the value of user commentary and feedback. He did that when he released the beta of his new game, and specifically asked for feedback from anyone who played it. People commented and he used the information to make changes, fix bugs and add new features. But when other game publishers do it, he throws the written equivalent of a childish tantrum and puts it up on a website that makes heavy use of user comments. The level of hypocrisy and thick-headedness is astounding.

Also, that thing he put up on Twitter saying something like "oh, it's a commentary on comments, so you can't comment without looking foolish"? Yeah, if that's not an admission of failure, then I don't know what is. However foolish the commenters on this thread are, I don't see how they could possibly be more foolish than the one who wrote the article to begin with.

Aardvaarkman:

Scrumpmonkey:
The comments on the Escapist are relegated to a separate section of dedicated discussion (a forum if you will) and as such do not intrude as much on the media. This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.

I completely agree. Unfortunately, you know it is never gong to go away, because it is now legally mandatory that all websites must link to and promote Facebook. Almighty Facebook, ruler of us all!

'Social Media' and Facebook in particular is arguably starting to get LESS relevant as time goes on and people/companies realise that all those likes are
1) just all froth and noise and distraction and don't materialise into anything
2).uses are migrating away from these fickle services at an alarming rate
3) Most of the big companies likes are actually fake and
4) the level pf community engagement you get is extremely poor and has no benefit to you.

All these plungins do is sell someone else's service. Its got to the point that YouTube Facebook etc are dependant on their ubiquity because they are actively hated by a sizable proportion of users

Kingjackl, I find your foolish comment to be especially foolish. [/sarcasm]

I appreciate his commentary, but there are definitely times I'll disagree with him. You've done well to point out how this isn't his best work.

Separating the wheat from the chaff is always an arduous process. And there's a lot of chaff going around so it's understandable that not everyone wants to go through it.

Censorship is a terrible idea. The ability for anyone to post their opinions easily and for free online is great. Freedom of information is one of the best things to happen with the internet. Glad I'm not the only person who sees the hypocrisy in this article. Basically it is saying that he should be allowed post his views on things but not everyone else. His opinions aren't more valid just because he gets paid for it, that is an argument from authority. Yes lots of comments are rubbish but not all of them. And I don't like when I have the best jokes in a comedy video ruined on me by glancing at the comments. You shouldn't tar all comments with the same brush and certainly shouldn't ban them. If you don't want to read comments then you don't have to. Although I do agree, they should be optional and shouldn't be forced upon you.

Kingjackl:
The worst part about this column is that Yahtzee himself has already seen for himself the value of user commentary and feedback. He did that when he released the beta of his new game, and specifically asked for feedback from anyone who played it. People commented and he used the information to make changes, fix bugs and add new features. But when other game publishers do it, he throws the written equivalent of a childish tantrum and puts it up on a website that makes heavy use of user comments. The level of hypocrisy and thick-headedness is astounding.

Also, that thing he put up on Twitter saying something like "oh, it's a commentary on comments, so you can't comment without looking foolish"? Yeah, if that's not an admission of failure, then I don't know what is. However foolish the commenters on this thread are, I don't see how they could possibly be more foolish than the one who wrote the article to begin with.

As I said, he only doing this for comedy to make the things more interesting.
Don't take his word so seriously.
If Yantzee was a Pony, he would had the Element of Disorder and Irony. He is good at that. But he isn't a bad Pony. He is a good Pony. We must Believe in him.

Interesting, Yahtzee makes an article about the problems with comments and those who attempt to challenge him on his opinion have not only missed the point of the article, but have managed to prove his point, well played Mr Croshaw, well played.

OT: My opinion on comments vary depending on the subject matter, if it's on things like games, movies, TV programmes etc. then it helps to provide feedback which is important, however in terms of say, comment sections on news sites, I find them completely unnecessary as the only people that it attracts are idiotic armchair generals who views their opinion on a certain issue as fact when really, they're just full of shit and will violently lash out at those who have a different opinion. Just look at the comments section at Yahoo, Sky news or even the Escapist's R and P section to get an idea of what I'm talking about.

"You treat it like a punch: you deliver it, and then you run away."
Oh, I always punch people and then have to stand in a line waiting to be processed in the local police station!

Learned something again from you this week, thanks!

P.S.
Your awesomeness radiates greatly, because for once I did not get a BLOODY commercial CAPTCHA, but "This is Sparta" 0_0

If everyone only spoke when they had something knowledgeable, well thought-trough, and worthwhile to say we'd lead very silent and solitary lives.

Alma Mare:

If I am a painter and I expose my painting in a gallery...

-I am free to read or the articles the local critics decide on their own time and media to make about it;
-I am free to engage in conversations with people who want to give me their opinions, at my discretion, pacing and leisure.
-I am free to read any written feedback that is sent my way if and when I should decide to do so.
-I AM NOT expected to deliver my painting in a 10m-wide passe-partout in order to allow everyone that feels like so to go on and scribble their rambling right next to my work without my consent or any regard on how adequate said rambling is.

Can you spot the difference?

No. Because the comment section is just another medium for discourse. As the creator of something you can't prohibit people to comment on your work or restrict the way people do it. You may do so in the space you decide to showcase your work, at least if you are in control of said space and didn't use somebody else's space for it, like Yahtzee does here on the Escapist. As a creator you are not forced to showcase your work in a space where you do not agree on the terms. And you are also not forced to read all those comments.

If you don't like it find some place else to display your art masterpiece or built your own god damn art gallery!

"I despise the notion that everyone has something of value to contribute, because that's provably false. Just try to think of how much of a twat you are."

Pot, kettle, black.

Dragonbums:

EvilRoy:
Snip

I'm not really going to dispute that what your saying doesn't make sense. It's just that ranting that comments should be obliterated because one or the other deems them unworthy is total ass.

What I say may have no value to you due to affiliation, but perhaps it may to someone else.

There are plenty of comments that I don't agree with. That doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to say "the only thing that matters on the internet are paid people to make comments on the internet". It just feels highly self centered, and egotistical. Especially when implied that his own stuff actually has weight in this industry at all.

I like Jim's stuff for instance. I tend to agree on most of what he says. But I'm not going to believe for a second that what he says will have that much of a sway in the grand scheme of things. Or whether his opinions matter outside of Destructoid and Escapist. To places like IGN, he's a fucking nobody.

It isn't a question of influence, its a question of accountability. Whether or not Yahtzee or Jim actually do have an effect on the gaming world is disputable, but what isn't disputable is that people who follow them on the internet will remember their opinions until they die. Years later people still remember that Yahtzee didn't play monster hunter the way they wanted, and that Bob made a video talking about how PC gaming was doomed to turn into tablet only, and that Jim gave the wrong score to whatever. That accountability may never manifest as authority or punishment - they will likely never dictate what a good game is and they will likely never be thrown off the internet for their crimes - but we can use those past videos as a way to determine the validity of their opinions on the topic of today.

Wait, but this is a comment...ARGGHHGGHGHGH!!!
I'm a huge twat!

I made a video about My Little Pony this year and it got thousands of views. The first wave of comments--like the first three hundred or so--like for the first two weeks--were densely littered with brinliance. Every fifth comment made me laugh out loud or applause in appreciation.

After that, the lessers of the Youtube community started really infesting the comments with the same dumb, repetitive, boring points and lame jokes.

So maybe there ought to be a cutoff date.

Aardvaarkman:

EvilRoy:

Dragonbums:

Your entire article basically says- My words are more important than yours because I get paid to do it. Yours means nothing therefore I don't want to see it.

Thing is though, that view is basically correct. Journalism and criticism in general require a fair amount of qualification in order for it to have any weight or value.

And yet, it wasn't long ago that Yahtzee would have been considered an unqualified punk outsider, who doesn't deserve to have a mouthpiece.

Yes, respect for opinions and thoughts is typically earned rather than granted.

Remember when the "professional journalists" mocked the idea of blogging? And now blogging has eaten their lunch, and the blogers are taken more seriously than the traditional journalists.

This is really the icing on the irony cake - that Yahtzee has so easily slipped into the same arrogance that the old media did, when they pish-poshed the idea that the internet could threaten their status.

Unfortunately this has led directly to a proliferation of falsehoods due to either the malice or incompetence of the bloggers. Its a real problem that has basically necessitated the existence of and guaranteed the eternal employment of groups like Snopes which is run by people with faces and names.

Wait, what? You don't have a face or a name? What the hell happened to you? Was there a freak explosion that burnt your face off and left you with amnesia or something?

I don't know if you're making a joke or you don't understand.

That really doesn't seem to be the way it works. Once people get famous, they tend to not give a shit about what people think of them or say about them, because they always have enough fans around that it doesn't matter. Less-established people are much more likely to be careful about their words, in my experience.

They don't need to be careful of their words, they need to have a backlog against which we can qualify future opinions. They can be as biased or rude as they want, but having a face and a name guarantees that those things stay on the record rather than dying with each avatar and handle.

Just readin one small sample of the comments on this particular article pretty much proves its point...

Scars Unseen:
Damn right! Screw those scrubs with their vapid meme pasting and horrific pun generation. Not a worthwhile point to be made by any of them. It's you and me against the world!

(I'm the exception right?)

I know where you were going with this, but that seems like it could have also been an indictment of Yahtzee.

Scrumpmonkey:

As for social media content/crossover in games. It's simply embarrassing. Hang your head in shame industry.

I think they feel the need for the exact same reason you mention later with regards to the interwebs layer down the page. They fear without social media nobody will care. And honestly, considering that almost every game I join involves someone stopping to read/post/sext something on Twitter/Facebook/Instagram/whatever, they may not be too far off.

Mike Fang:
Another EP where Yahtzee shows us that side of himself that proves that the hyperbole he uses to put down his own audience is, in reality, exactly how he feels. No, people, he's not just saying those things because he's trying to be entertaining, he really DOES think 99% of us are shit. He thinks it of me and he thinks it of you. Yes, YOU, whoever-is-reading-this-at-the-time, don't think your on his special not-shit-list, because you are, along with the rest of us. It's times like this I really feel misgivings about watching his stuff. He's entertaining and often informative, but by God, he can also be bitter and hateful.

I can see why you'd feel that way, but nothing he says really bothers me to the point I'd have any misgivings myself. I mean, so what if Yahtzee doesn't think highly of me? I don't watch these videos for validation (though it seems many do, based on the reactions), I watch for entertainment. And until he stops being funny or starts saying things a little stronger than at least partially validated complaints about the comments sections, I'm not likely to shift away.

But I'm not going to defend his comments, either. The best I can do is say that they're probably at least partially validated, given what I've read. He may mean it about all of us, and I don't really care, because that kind of broad-brushing is ridiculous to begin with (and is the sort of thing ALL SCRUBS AND CASUALSDO!). On the other hand, it's not much different than a lot of other people who generalise entire audiences/groups.sites/whatever. YouTube is nothing but trolls and Ron Paul fans. Xbox is nothing but homophobic 13 year olds. Nintendo fans are nothing but kids. Wrestling fans are all toothless hicks. Democrats/Republicans are all stupid (for slightly different reasons).

I doubt he means it, like a lot of those generalisations, as anything more than a hyperbolic statement of frustration. But even if he does, it's no skin off my nose. If I limited my entertainment to people who actually liked me, I'd be screeeeeewed.

And honestly, if I were in the position of any of these content creators (not just Yahtzee), I'm not sure I'd feel any different about people.

But again, fair enough if this bothers you enough to avoid his content.

TheKrigeron:
What?!
You could say the exact same thing about Reviews, those fucking uninformed leeches that think hey can "Analyse" a game jus because they have a Camera and a mic (or Cynicism and the ability to doodle things), fuck em' right in their smug ass!
This Article is stupid.

Hey, that's not all he has! He also has a sweet hat!

SweetShark:
Don't take his word so seriously.

Yahtzee's EP columns have often taken a serious, critical approach. Even when they're couched in humuor, they're more serious than his ZP videos.

hazydawn:
If everyone only spoke when they had something knowledgeable, well thought-trough, and worthwhile to say we'd lead very silent and solitary lives.

I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing.

Hmmm .. er... well ..uh... this is awkward after reading that.

Oh well. Guess instead of the pithy pointless twatty comment I was going to make I'll just read you all a bit from The Great Gatsby instead.

"It was when curiosity about Gatsby was at its highest that the lights in his house failed to go on one Saturday night - and, as obscurely as it had begun, his career as Trimalchio was over. Only gradually did I become aware that the automobiles which turned expectantly into his drive stayed for just a minute and then drove sulkily away. Wondering if he were sick I went over to find out - an unfamiliar butler with a villainous face squinted at me suspiciously from the door.

"Is Mr. Gatsby sick?"

"Nope." After a pause he added "sir" in a dilatory, grudging way.

"I hadn't seen him around, and I was rather worried. Tell him Mr. Carraway came over."

"Who?" he demanded rudely.

"Carraway."

"Carraway. All right, I'll tell him." Abruptly he slammed the door."

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