Zero Punctuation: Tomb Raider: Underworld

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NewClassic:
Once upon a time, Zero Punctuation was a series that was more about game reviews with good humor and an active style the encouraged the viewer to be a part of the experience, laugh, and actually learn something about a game.

You went wrong there. By the criteria of any professional reviewer (who isn't writing New Journalism) Yahtzee has always been a terrible reviewer and ZP is a case study of How Not To Review. I've been writing web reviews (of music) for coming up to four years, I've had quotes and scores from my reviews used on official artist websites and promotional material and I've learned the long and slow way exactly what constitutes a good review. Yahtzee willfully breaks almost every rule I can think of in any given review.

Zero Punctuation has always been a comedy show that uses the framework of a review to house the laughs. Yahtzee admitted very early on that it isn't funny to praise something so he would focus on the negatives, a fairly blatant admission that laughs come first and the review comes second.

With that said, all your lengthy (and obviously pre-prepared) showpiece rant boils down to is "I no longer find him funny". Welcome to humour: maybe the most subjective thing humanity knows of. Yahtzee has an original and inspired visual/audio delivery format with a distinct style. Like any comedian, once he's found his style it's all about writing good jokes. At the end of the day, I'm still laughing at him and if you aren't that's more likely to be your issue than anything Yahtzee is doing wrong in a sense of craft.

GIdub:
Anyways, you can't at all expect people not to comment like I just did. Posting your opinions in that fashion smack bang into a ZP episode thread is asking for trouble. Much smarter would have been to make another thread.
Posting his "views" like this, borders on trolling in my opinion. Sure post your views in your blog, as a story or in another thread, or what ever - but choosing this thread is just bad form.

Alone the fact that you are a long-time viewer of ZP would indicate that maybe this "samey" feeling you're getting is precisely gained from watching ZP for too long?
I've watched every ZP since Yahtzee threw them up on YT too, and I don't at all share you're feelings about the show. Sure some episodes are better than others... but that' bound to be the case. And if I did, I sure wouldn't choose a ZP episode to approach that matter.

People always know better - just that it's never the ones doing it.
If you really are getting tired of ZP, stop watching it. Dropping numbers in viewers are surely more of an incentive for anyone to change the show rather than an ill-placed rant like NewClassic's.

By your own logic, if you don't like NewClassic's rant, ignore it and don't post about it.

NewCastle just wanted attention really really badly. That is defiantly a copy paste and now we're giving him all the attention he wants by commenting on his post. So "Like a child putting the cat in a tumble dryer", let's stop giving him what he wants and pay no more attention to him.

Great Review. I'm still laughing at the credit comment "Laura Crofts's boobs are so big, right, that when she gives someone a titwank they have to be recovered with spelunking equipment." HA!! :D :D

GIdub:

Posting his "views" like this, borders on trolling in my opinion. Sure post your views in your blog, as a story or in another thread, or what ever - but choosing this thread is just bad form.

No, you are wrong, and I say this despite my issues with NC's original post. This thread is, presumably, set up as a place for viewers to give feedback to the video they've just watched. There's no reason that constructive criticism doesn't belong there.

EDIT: And what's the inverted commas around "views" supposed to mean?

Bravo, New Classic. My friend and I, both long-time ZP fans, have been talking about the decline of the series for quite a while. I think that you were fair in your assessment, and if anything not hard enough. While I'm sure that the faithful will see any slight against Yahtzee, their projection of what they could have been if they had talent, as reason enough for jihad, your chief criticism here rings true, even if you did write it in advance: he didn't spend any time talking about the bloody game.

At last a review! Very good, normality has returned and it is all the sweeter for it.

Awesome ZP

Good review, I think the Tomb Raider series is getting really old now and she's giving brits a bad name (especially when you get people like Angelina Jolie portraying her in dire film versions). I think that NewClassic maybe has something against Yahtzee, posting his own review about Zero Punctuation as soon as the video goes up... looks as if it was pre-written then edited after seeing Yahtzee's review then posted straight away.

Looking forward to the next review!

Agreed, all tomb raiders are exactly the same.

Bloody great!
But thats always the case! :D

tustin2121:
NewCastle just wanted attention really really badly. That is defiantly a copy paste and now we're giving him all the attention he wants by commenting on his post. So "Like a child putting the cat in a tumble dryer", let's stop giving him what he wants and pay no more attention to him.

But I like Nuke, and I think his post DOES deserve attention. It's well written, and has some excellent points.

GIdub:

If I "don't get it", why don't you expand on it for me, then.
As said, that convoluted-rant is just much too full of itself - it's like writing a Michelin guide on a hamburger.

Well if you didn't read it, as your original post suggests (And as this post basically proves), you'll find the rant (If you could even call it that) wasn't convoluted, or full of itself. It was a well written, thought out observation of the sliding that ZP has made from 'Reviewing with comedy' to 'comedy with maybe reviewing'. That's what you don't seem to 'get'. You also don't seem to get that negative and positive posts about the episode are welcome. Including Nuke's post. And if is TRULY is 'tl' and you really 'dr', then why post about it at all? You're trying to sum up something you know nothing about (Until you actually read it).

And you can call his post (Not rant) 'misplaced' if you like, but it's certainly being read more here then if it was on it's own thread. You said yourself you don't frequent the forums, and you certainly aren't alone. I would imagine a lot of fans-but-not-members scroll through the comments on the latest ZP to see people's reactions! And there is Nuke's post right on page one. That's dame good placement, if anything.

And the MODs do a dame good job around here, and obviously haven't found fault with it. Were it truly misplaced, they'd ban him, or put him on probation, or even delete the post! But they haven't done any of those things. That's because it's an articulate post with points to make (Contrary to 'tl;dr', which only shows you have no attention span).

Actually, that is a good point, Lara does smash up priceless artifacts for no good reason, and kill endangered animals. She could have left the Kraken alive and made millions by "King Kong"-ing it.

Sabbad:

PedroSteckecilo:

Posting his "views" like this, borders on trolling in my opinion. Sure post your views in your blog, as a story or in another thread, or what ever - but choosing this thread is just bad form.

No, you are wrong, and I say this despite my issues with NC's original post. This thread is, presumably, set up as a place for viewers to give feedback to the video they've just watched. There's no reason that constructive criticism doesn't belong there.

EDIT: And what's the inverted commas around "views" supposed to mean?

Um... I didn't say that...I think you misquoted. Gldub was the one who made that particular accusation.

good thing I never played TB.

nice jokes, the game all and all sucks and now I'm a slave to opinion. cheers ZP and cheers Yahtzee.

IM MISTER BRAIN HAT!!!

@NewClassic's Post

I'm not sure if this against the internet code or anything, but I really feel I should address a few things to you about your comment on the latest ZP. Note: I will state this now, I am not some sort of ZP fanatic. I, being a writer myself, just hate comments like yours.

Firstly, get off your high horse. I can't imagine what sort or conceited, or, more likely, self-conscious person it would take to premake a post (which you most certainly did, seeing as how no one could type all of that in six fucking minutes) about how much you are "dissappointed" or "long for what it used to be" and then go and plaster pictures and a banner sapping off the the Zero Puncuation name just to promote yourself. That's really fucking insanely low, man.

Secondly, and really, most importantly, who the fuck do you think you are? Most every entertainer of any sort, be it music, painting, acting, or what have you, will agree that the HARDEST job in the entertainment industry is COMEDY. Yahtzee is payed to make humorous videos, sure, but who gives you the goddamn right to ask more of him? Oh, how quickly we turn on those we use to look up to. Yahtzee's review of Silent Hill will testify that fans will indeed never be satisfied with anything they are given. How long has he been doing these videos? A year, maybe? And he's already old to you? I think it's really just an issue of a short attention span on your end than it is a fault of Yahtzee's. It's his fucking video, not yours. Go do it better if you think you can. I'd love to see it and laugh at how fucking terrible it is. It would be one thing to try and add constructive criticism to someone whose work you care about, but, pointing again to the fact that you obviously wrote out that whole diatribe first and edited in Lara's name afterwards, you clearly just don't like the guy. Or, even worse, maybe you just needed the attention, and I am just feeding the troll here.

In any case, I really do hope you look at your bullshit and realize that bitching on the internet like that is fucking asinine and needless. But, that's just me hoping. I, unfortunately, know there are more people like you out there who only think of themselves.

And to the rest of you agreeing with this asshole, bugger off, you needy bastards, and make something of yourselves other than whining internet douchebags.

Spider tours...brilliant. I cannot count how many games I've played where that scenario can be explained by this one jab.

Great review.

I liked it, and that's all that fucking matters.
(To myself.)

Happy that Tomb Raider sold really poorly and most of Crystal Dynamics have been fired Yahtzee? It's all your fault!

I laughed more than I usually do at this episode of ZP but when it was over I found myself leaning back in my chair and sighing wistfully in admission that this is the way it's going to be for a long time. It's like we've been married for over a year now and like a good wife I still laugh at my husband's titty jokes but secretly wonder when he's going to get a real job.

That isn't fair to Yahtzee, really. ZP's charm has always been about pointing out the painfully obvious in overly-hyped video games when no one else seems willing to, and when it isn't doing that it's at least putting the whole industry under a humorous observational light. But the fact is that the entire gaming industry is in a lull right now and naturally that puts a damper on how many jokes you can make about it. After a year filled with Smash Bros. Brawl, MGS4, Fallout 3, Prince of Persia, GTA4, Spore and many others that I haven't even played because I just don't have that kind of money lying around, it's really difficult to get worked up about the upcoming year. It reminds me of our presidential campaign, which shovelled so much late-night joke fodder down our throats that when the president was finally elected, we had to loosen our belts and take a nap after having shot our comedy wads faster than you can say, "I can see Russia from my house." Now we have a new guy in charge and it's going to take a few months to settle down and figure out what's funny about him. He may turn out to be hilariously mockable but we just don't know yet.

So until we know what the economically slumping game industry is going to throw at us this year to make us prostrate to our digital overlords, we've got to put up with another few weeks of rehashed boobies from the likes of Tomb Raider Underworld. Ironic, since by now Lara must have enough gold artifacts in her basement to actually stabilize the US dollar.

Incidentally, I'm not a journalism student, I didn't write this thing up ahead of time and I'm not desperate for attention, so I feel a little out of place in this thread, but I still have an admiration for wordsmithing, and I always appreciate when someone gets right to the point instead of writing a 1,000-word essay that boils down to "Yahtzee sucks, ZP sucks, please don't flame me." And I've never understood why anyone has to justify liking or disliking something to anyone on the internet for any reason, since I'm pretty sure it's been scientifically proven that the internet has no taste. I understand we're in the age of information and everyone's opinion is a precious snowflake, but as Rep. Joe Baca (D-California) has proven, some people just shouldn't be encouraged to express themselves.

Silveth:
*Snipped out the unnecessary cursing and paragraphs of 'not getting it'*

*Sigh*

Nuke was making a valid point, and that is this: ZP has gone from 'reviews with comedy' to 'comedy, with maybe reviews'. The entire point of the show has shifted! I'll quote Nuke himself:

NewClassic:
I'd like to point out here that I'm not calling this video series bad. What it is has simply become something different.

Nuke isn't asking MORE of Yahtzee. He's asking for what Yahztee is suppose to deliver in the first place: A review.What we get, instead, is a pile of jokes that may or may not relate to the game (Or gaming in general) and possibly a review-esque type statement at the end.
Funny? Sure!
A review? No.

And I find it delightfully hypocritical that you ask by what right NewClassic has to criticize Yahtzee's work! I could spin that right around! By what right do you have to criticize Nuke's post? Well you both have the right, and it's called free speech. Were you to realize that, your entire second paragraph would be seen as, as the Greeks say, 'moot' and 'pointless'. Everyone has their opinion! You obviously have yours about Nuke and his post, I have mine about you claiming to be a writer, and Nuke has his about ZP.

If Nuke's post was a ridiculous as so many seem to claim, the MODs would take care of it. They do that. It's their job, and they are good at their job.

NewClassic would have done better to rant in a new thread. He can't start a good debate with that rant in here.

The review was good, but I have this feeling that Yahtzee is ranting a bit more than usual about bad video games. He should calm down and review LittleBigPlanet, which I am surprised he hasn't reviewed yet. If he genuinely enjoys it, it will be the first genuinely positive review he's given in a while. If NewClassic is right about anything, it's that when Yahtzee reviews sequels these days, he spends too much time ranting about how the series should be ended.

I'm thankful that Yahtzee actually reviewed a game this time. Funny, as usual.
EDIT: Though on reflection, this wasn't much a review.

hardwarexpert:
Been a long time viewer of Zero Punctuation and have never signed up to the Escapist until he mentioned Bristols!

I am from Bristol (UK) and most women born here have big breasts so I couldn't stop laughing when he referred to Lara's breasts as Bristols.

Good work as always Yahtzee!

Most woman from Bristol have large breasts?!?

Bristols is cockney rhyming slang for titties, Bristol Cities, nothing to do with the womenfolk of Bristol.

Zetona:
He should calm down and review LittleBigPlanet, which I am surprised he hasn't reviewed yet. If he genuinely enjoys it, it will be the first genuinely positive review he's given in a while.

My guess is that's exactly why he hasn't done it. Although I think it could and should open the door to the "casuals vs hardcore" comedy closet, a raging debate that's as acrimonious as it is pointless, made all the more intense just for the fact that there aren't any good mainstream games to rage over instead.

PedroSteckecilo:

Sabbad:

PedroSteckecilo:

Posting his "views" like this, borders on trolling in my opinion. Sure post your views in your blog, as a story or in another thread, or what ever - but choosing this thread is just bad form.

No, you are wrong, and I say this despite my issues with NC's original post. This thread is, presumably, set up as a place for viewers to give feedback to the video they've just watched. There's no reason that constructive criticism doesn't belong there.

EDIT: And what's the inverted commas around "views" supposed to mean?

Um... I didn't say that...I think you misquoted. Gldub was the one who made that particular accusation.

Ah, you are quite right, sorry for dodgy formatting. I'll edit the original.

I totally agree with NewClassic, man
Yahtzee's just gone so downhill lately
At first, I liked his reviews, they were witty, and still told me much about the game
Now he just rants about crap games and how crap they are
He's basically become an old man.

Ignoring newclassic's rather blatant attempts to derail this thread.

Doesn't it seem odd that ZP said he wouldn't bother explaining gameplay then immediately ranted on the gameplay in this game?

Tomb raider is long dead someone just needs to bury her.... in cement... on the moon... the nuke the moon... and take whats left... and throw it in the sun... and the halo 3 voice guy will say "overkill" hu, if like were like that you wouldn't need a slipnot.

The best part of that review, was how she "was mister brain hat!" I practically cried I laughed so hard. I was surprised Yahtzee felt so much sympathy for the "bosses"

Boy, I can't imagine how much biologists hate her. These are people that would trade their left nut to SEE a kraken, giant spider, or tiger, and she's putting a bullet in their skulls like there's no problem.

this review is udderly awesome.
seems like yahtzees batteries are all well charged up again!

Father Time:
Ignoring newclassic's rather blatant attempts to derail this thread.

Derail it? From what? Nothing ever happens in these threads bar random arguments vaguely related to the episode and roughly 200 posts saying
"lol gr8 as usal"
Really what is there to derail?

danebot:
The worst part is, you think it's worth reading, and that you're brillant! Thanks for your comments, but next time I want that kind of counter-opinion in my house I'll just invite a Jehova's witness in for coffee.

I'm an optimist, so I'm going to attempt to reason with you.

NewClassic CARES about ZP, and that's why he took the trouble to post what he did (pre-prepared or not). I think it's entirely reasonable to suggest he might even care more than many of us here. He's a fan of everything ZP represented. He's on Yahtzee's side. Like a coach asking a player to raise his game, it's because he ultimately believes it can be done. That's putting faith in Yahtzee.

If you consider the internet or this forum "your house" then I suggest you maybe open the door and leave it sometime. If you don't want a well thought out, balanced argument in the spirit of free speech then I suggest setting up residence within a dictatorship, and leave the internet well alone because you're going to be consistently disappointed with people and their differences.

I respect that you didn't agree with NewClassic's point of view but you could have at least tried to counter it with an appropriate level of thought and wit.

Baby Tea:

And you can call his post (Not rant) 'misplaced' if you like, but it's certainly being read more here then if it was on it's own thread. You said yourself you don't frequent the forums, and you certainly aren't alone. I would imagine a lot of fans-but-not-members scroll through the comments on the latest ZP to see people's reactions! And there is Nuke's post right on page one. That's dame good placement, if anything.

That's the whole point. It's "troll placement". It's like turning up in a thread about how wonderful PS3 graphics are and then having someone pop in with a mile-high post on how PS3 graphics are glitchy, or something similar.
Yeah, less people would have read it if it was not posted here... so what? Tough cheddar.
He's using Yahtzee's show's comments section to flog his rant to the masses and that's meant to appease me?

And the MODs do a dame good job around here, and obviously haven't found fault with it. Were it truly misplaced, they'd ban him, or put him on probation, or even delete the post! But they haven't done any of those things. That's because it's an articulate post with points to make (Contrary to 'tl;dr', which only shows you have no attention span).

It is articulate, but that doesn't make it any less misplaced or accurate.
On top of that, (which is what I said in both my other posts; he's taking something which is purely about humour, way too seriously.
It's almost as bad as the people who rant about how unfairly their favourite game was reviewed by Yahtzee and how the review was factually inaccurate... bla bla - you're taking his shows way too seriously.

In fact, SYSTEM-J put it in a much more moderate and diplomatic tone than I did [in fact in an all together "better" way - but hey, he's obviously a journalist :P), but is essentially speaking from my heart when he says:

With that said, all your lengthy (and obviously pre-prepared) showpiece rant boils down to is "I no longer find him funny". Welcome to humour: maybe the most subjective thing humanity knows of. Yahtzee has an original and inspired visual/audio delivery format with a distinct style. Like any comedian, once he's found his style it's all about writing good jokes. At the end of the day, I'm still laughing at him and if you aren't that's more likely to be your issue than anything Yahtzee is doing wrong in a sense of craft.

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