The Big Picture: Stars, Worn

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT
 

Firstly, solid points MovieBob. Can't argue with much of what you said here.

I do however think it's a matter of two big things: What is the story for Episode VII? And, are the 'new' characters going to be introduced like Mutt in Indiana Jones and Crystal Skull (completely pointless sidekick), or are they going be real meaningful parts of what is going on with the original trilogy's characters?

I think having the original cast come back to just do a 5-10 minute cameo in the film before moving on to the 'real story' could have more easily backfired than trying to do a full-fledged passing of the torch story, as is rumored. But you do risk people walking in to Episode VIII and saying "This is fun, but where's Leia/Luke/Han?" instead of focusing on these new characters.

Michael Brockbanks:

Besides, there's always the risk that just throwing the newbies at us will fall flat and leave us all wishing we had more time with the old-school.

To borrow from the WWE analogy Bob's already made, this is akin to the logic WWE uses. They're so convinced they can't get people to like the new guys because the last batch didn't go over well. So they overshadow the new guys with "legends" (some of more legendary status than others) in the hopes that suddenly people will care.

If they can't write engaging characters, having the original trinity come back only delays the problem. Unless they're going to keep giving us more time with them, then the issue is still going to be an issue.

Evonisia:

Though if Han dies it will be absolutely hilarious. I wasn't a big fan of him in the original trilogy but I can easily imagine the fanboys to burst into tears over it and denounce the film for existing over internet forums.

I expect massive fan outrage even if these movies are masterpieces.

Mcoffey:
I can see it now:

*Rumors circulating that the bad guy is palpatine*

JJ Abrams: "Guys, no, it's not Palpatine."

*Rumors continue to circulate, looking more and more likely that it's Palpatine.

JJ: "Guys! It's not Palpatine!"

*Movie eventually comes out*

*Character that shares no physical or personality traits with Palpatine*: I... am... PALPATINE!

JJ: "BOOM! Fucking fooled you! Mystery Box, BITCHES! I'm a goddamned genius!"

Is it too late to not do this yet? Fuck you, JJ Abrams...

People actually laughed at the "reveal" in Into Darkness at the theater a friend of mine went to.

I could totally see it happening again. Abrams pats himself on the back while viewers laugh.

Lieju:
I just really hope we will see some kind of character-growth for these familiar characters.

I don't really care as much how big their roles are, but they should be more mature, maybe they have had to make compromises on their ethics when rebuilding and dealing with the post-empire situation, or have had to become leaders in peacetime, or parents, or something.

It would be a shame after the end of Jedi to see them stagnate.

subtlefuge:

The point is that obviously the three main leads aren't really going to enjoy being dragged back in, so why do it at all?

Money. Money money money.

TBH, I doubt Disney, Abrams, or anyone else involved cares if they enjoy it. They're sure Ford/Fisher/Hamill will put asses in the seats even if they do phone it in. And they're probably right.

I still think that since Disney owns the IP now, along with Marvel... they should totally get Patton Oswald on board to help write it:

Possible Avengers/Parks and Rec spoilers?

Sounds like the best idea I've heard.

Making the movie about the kids was the right choice. The first (chronologically) trilogy was about one 'hero,' the second trilogy was about that hero's kids, so the third trilogy should be about their kids. I am slowly losing hope for these new movies now, or at least the first one. I have read nearly every book that came after Return of the Jedi, so I was already a bit sad when Disney said, "Yeah, none of that happened," but I was willing to give it a chance. Now though, I am starting to dread these films.
And don't you dare kill off any of the original cast. I cried enough when Chewie died in the books! And Anakin!

On a side note, I would totally see that Mace Windu movie because it sounds hilarious.

Mr Ink 5000:

MovieBob:
Stars, Worn

MovieBob addresses some of the rumors around the new upcoming Stars Wars trilogy.

Watch Video

what was that about Peter Parker at 4:10?
no, noooo, I love superior Spider-man, it pisses all over the potential of killing Parker in the ultimates universe n just replacing him with a black peter parker

Is it bad this was the main thing I took away from this as well?

FFS, while it's obvious they were going to bring him back, couldn't they have waited more than a year? Actually give this arc some meaning and time to develop naturally? Superhero deaths are already dime-a-dozen by this point, keeping Peter dead the extra 12 months or so would hopefully give it a bit of impact, but no, back to life for Peter.

It's not as if Superior isn't selling well either, but I guess they need to status quo back for when the movie comes out...

I ask, seriously, without sarcasm and with legitimate curiosity...

... why should I expect, in any way, that J. J. Abrams can pull this off?

I can only think of one, single movie of his that was actually pretty good (the one Star Trek reboot), and even that one has one too many plotholes and leaps of logic for me to fully invest in it as a great movie.

And... what else?

Granted, he could surprise me. Maybe Star Trek was a fluke, maybe his less spectacular movies were flukes... maybe he's an M. Night Shaymalan or maybe he's a Spielberg in the making. I don't know yet.

But to entrust a billion dollar franchise to him based on the success of one single movie seems... I want to say "ballsy", but it actually is pretty "stupid".

It's basically the point though that even his detractors have said "at least it's not George Lucas anymore". So there's that.

So wait, Bob...you are a WWE fan or just used the news for the purpose of metaphor because there is a very real booking metaphor you could make of WWE booking forward long standing people like Randy Orton, Triple H, Cena, and now the returning Batista instead of guys who are over as all getout like Bryan Danielson and CM Punk. I think playing it safe is the general idea that media companies will go for because they do feel that, without the nostalgia taking the entire movie, people won't see it just because there are not those nostalgic characters (they even feel franchises can be broken on a whim as we see with countless lackluster sequel movies)

I think it all goes back to people needing to support risks being taken. The internet community tends to be a community of negativity, one that worries about everything which might "murder their childhood" or "not be close to the source material." I am not saying that one cannot be negative at times (to use the wrestling term, that makes you a mark), but you do need to support the things you enjoy and give constructive criticism on what doesn't. When you do the latter, and support risks and focus on what works, you no longer need to be pandered to, people are willing to take risks, and sometimes magic happens. Hulk Hogan was a star because he was over and WWF booked him as a star, The Rock was the same way, but Mick Foley, Bryan Danielson, and even Bret Hart all were able to get over with fans, work on their weaknesses, and forced the powers that be to make the decision to push them. If we can use that same mentality with film, I do think we can actually get things moving.

Soo in these next few years the nerd culture is going to either explode or implode with how these movies do.

-World of Warcraft movie
-Starwars
-Magic the Gathering

Mean while going back to the topic at hand my problem is there of 3 types of starwars people. People who have scene the movies and thought that was cool, People who have scene the movies and loved it and are the ones they are trying to appeal to. But then there are the try hard fans people who gobble up every bit of lore and the like.

Those people that know the lore. That have read the comics that talk about palpatines ressurection, they going to be pretty pissed at will become pretty much a retcon.

guitarsniper:
All I want from the new Star Wars trilogy: Boba Fett, The Movie.

Joke or not all I can think of is why?

Sorry, never understood all the hype surrounding a character who's most action detailed point was knocked into the Sarlaac pit by a handicapped Han while trying for a cheap shot.

It always feels weird that I saw the Phantom Menace and maybe even Attack of the Clones before the other films. When the Phantom Menace came out, I was actually too young to even be aware of any of the thoughts and opinions about it. Actually since I was 7, I guess I was even in the target demographic.

So even though geek culture tends to be pretty similar having a company try to sell nostalgia to the people around me, and to have none myself is just strange. (I'm talking about the actors, I love Star Wars of course, but I was raised on all sorts of games and stuff but never specifically about just those three films).
--------------------------------------

Desworks:

TechTim:
Han dies as a "shock moment", maybe. I feel more likely Luke dies protecting Han, Leah, and sidekicks.

My money would be on Luke as well. That way every trilogy would have a Jedi mentor character die in the first film. Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan > Luke. Plus, if needed, you can always get him back to cameo as a ghost.

I'd actually like that quite a bit, I know Lucas' repeating heroes idea is thought as pretty stupid (and it can be), but that particular pattern seems quite cool to me.

A movie about the old gang passing the torch on to the new generation could be a beautiful story. I would rather see something like this instead of a movie were the old guys show up to save the day once again.

Passing the torch was after all part of what made the original storyline interesting. Obi Wan and Yoda teaching Luke and putting their trust in him even though they had concerns. The old gang showing up and saving the day because the youth is incompetent is bullshit. Go watch Battleship if you think that is cool.

And Obi Wan dieing in a blaze of glory? I hope not. That would be baaaad.

LordLundar:

guitarsniper:
All I want from the new Star Wars trilogy: Boba Fett, The Movie.

Joke or not all I can think of is why?

Sorry, never understood all the hype surrounding a character who's most action detailed point was knocked into the Sarlaac pit by a handicapped Han while trying for a cheap shot.

Yeah, I think this is one of the many EU ideas they should scrap. Boba Fett fell in the pit, and he's dead. The End. Move on. If you want to bring back Boba Fett, bring the Mandalorians back, because it's what Boba Fett was mimicking. That way instead of one, you have an army of them.

I think we can all but conclude that SOMETHING in the EU will be used as fodder for the next trilogy, and we just don't know what yet. The evidence for this is that Disney is figuring out what it likes and doesn't like from the EU, turning what it likes from EU into canon, and trashing whatever's left of EU. Now I don't mind this - most of the EU is dreadful and murdering any EU material Kevin J. Anderson wrote would be a blessing - but you also run the risk of losing parts of the EU that are legitimately awesome (like Kyle Katarn).

As for the old cast coming back, I don't have a problem with this, as long as they don't overly use them and embarrass the legacy like they did with Indiana Jones (didn't mind the movie, but Ford playing the role at his age looked silly). Also, there just has to be one kid of the old cast there, and it should be Solo and Leia's kid. Luke should know his role, and his legacy should be dying as an old hermit Jedi with no kids just like Kenobi and Qui-Gon before him. No, Mara Jade should not exist in canon, I don't care how hot and awesome she is.

Eh i like the idea of them all getting a bigger paycheck, but well yea, they all ancient, hamill looks vaguely yoda like as he ages, ford in crystal skull, fisher i imagine will put her heart into it.

Ford could just phone it in however, he is at that stage of his career and i think he has expressed his dislike for the whole star wars thing in the past. No telling what way he will go.

they cannot be as bad as episode 1, 2, and 3 it would be an near impossibility so if they meet that standard i will will be suprised.

I dislike the concept of having the main characters be the children of the previous main characters, I'm not saying that you can't have the new generation as important characters but as main characters its rather boring and uninteresting.

And yeah there probably going to kill off han, because that's the lazy way to establish that the new villains are serious business.

and the new villains is going be a sith lord (most likely palpatine), and one character is probably nearly going to fall to the dark side.

I'm more interested in the spin offs since they can actually take the series in a new and interesting direction.

Say what you will... I would watch that Mace Windu movie

Trishbot:
I ask, seriously, without sarcasm and with legitimate curiosity...

... why should I expect, in any way, that J. J. Abrams can pull this off?

I can only think of one, single movie of his that was actually pretty good (the one Star Trek reboot), and even that one has one too many plotholes and leaps of logic for me to fully invest in it as a great movie.

And... what else?

Granted, he could surprise me. Maybe Star Trek was a fluke, maybe his less spectacular movies were flukes... maybe he's an M. Night Shaymalan or maybe he's a Spielberg in the making. I don't know yet.

But to entrust a billion dollar franchise to him based on the success of one single movie seems... I want to say "ballsy", but it actually is pretty "stupid".

It's basically the point though that even his detractors have said "at least it's not George Lucas anymore". So there's that.

Exactly what I've been thinking at least on the marvel side they make interesting choices for directors but J. J. Abrams is at best an above average director.

I hope they at least keep Mara Jade in the franchise (as a mention, if nothing else).

MB202:
I didn't even realize that George Lucas might have came up with everything in the prequel trilogy on the fly... But that makes a whole lot of sense, considering whats actually in those Movies,

I seem to recall interviews with people behind the scenes that said that George Lucas wrote The Phantom Menace in a week.

What the fans want (meaning what I want because I can't speak for everyone) is a good movie. I'd really enjoy if the next trilogy was focused on the war aspect of Star Wars. The empire isn't gone because the emperor is dead. The New Republic has to fight to remove the massive imperial presence. With that build up in mind (This isn't even EU stuff yet, just how logic dictates) you can get a serious war movie with great heroes and villains. Personally, I'd love to see a movie that plays out similarly to A Bridge too Far with Rogue Squadron as the main cast.

Also, you know, Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy.

Trishbot:
But to entrust a billion dollar franchise to him based on the success of one single movie seems... I want to say "ballsy", but it actually is pretty "stupid".

Armageddon, Mission Impossible 3, Star Trek, Super 8, Cloverfield, Alias, Lost, Fringe, Person of Interest, and a whole bunch of awards including at least a couple for best director. Not all what I'd call good, but he has his name on a whole bunch of very successful stuff and has made a lot of money for a lot of people in doing so. He may or may not do well with Star Wars, but to suggest he's some virtual unknown being put in charge of a big franchise just because of one film just isn't at all accurate. Hell, he's already been put in charge of at least two billion dollar franchises. Like him or not, this is far from his first dance.

Your like the 2nd or 3rd source I heard Han will die.

Off topic-ish if Disney re-releases the original starwars trilogy the way it was I look the other way on this trilogy. Yes I went there.

Desworks:
My money would be on Luke as well. That way every trilogy would have a Jedi mentor character die in the first film. Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan > Luke. Plus, if needed, you can always get him back to cameo as a ghost.

That would be a great idea. They should also have one of the new Sith lords break one of the Jedi's back with his fierce strength. And also the Sith does have a strange but familiar looking breathing apparatus. And then he captures him and leaves him in a pit with other Empire convicts so that he can heal for about roughly 60 days or so. And then Qui-Gon or Luke would appear in front of him leaving that impression that he never died at all. And the new title will be Star Wars VII: The Jedi Knight Rises.

For those who couldn't recognise the sarcasm, I was of course talking about a reference to a film that did not went as expected (but did not completely disappoint).

I sincerely hope this film bombs. Really. Not because I'm a Trekkie at heart but well, maybe that too. But mostly because J.J. Abrahams should focus his point on TV shows because that is something that can be corrected over a period of time. If he gets to 'blow his load' in one film, the pressure would be to great. And yeah there is a joke about performance issues in there as well.

I still haven't forgotten what you did to the Star Trek, Abrahams. And I hope the Star Wars fans who got their fan-boy groove on with Star Wars references in Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness will enjoy the sheer 'pain' of seeing their love being manhandled like we Trekkies had to endure with the aforementioned films.

F*ck you J.J. Abrahams, f*ck you so very very very much.

Was never a Star Wars fan. I think the last trilogy is poor at best, I think the first trilogy aged rather ungracefully and it looks dreadful today, and i dont consider it an interesting universe to occupy. There is so much nonsense within it that I just sigh half the time. Or gasp. Or both. It is silly for me and I sincerely hope that new trilogy will do something interesting and - most importantly - smart.

Luke is doomed, considering how the series usually treats jedi masters. I assume he's trainng some young kid and then ends up dying to become a ghost that may or may not appear in future films.

unacomn:
If Kyle Katarn isn't in this movie, it will fail! Give us the bearded wonder!

Fuck yeah! You know what? Fuck making a new trilogy about some descent of Luke and those. Give us the Kyle instead! One of the better character from EU.

This about sums up my concerns about the Star Wars movie better than I could, so thank you Bob!

I have nothing against the idea of a new story, nor do I have anything against the idea of them using the leads from the original trilogy again. What I do have a problem with, and what will kill this film for me, is JJ Abrams. Everything that man writes boils down to two words, daddy issues. And in a setting that comes pre-packaged will already established parental figure characters you can be damn sure we'll see a lot of it.

Or in a world where magic stills happens and writers other than the crowd that spawned in or around JJ Abrams exist... I really think the old leads coming back would be the ideal. It allows for there to be context, character context, for the whole scope of what the story in the original trilogy achieved in that setting and more importantly, what it didn't.

But yeah, this film is doomed by who is involved. Just pray they never let JJ near a Marvel film... oh god... imagine what that Spiderman would look like.

Adam Locking:

Mr Ink 5000:

MovieBob:
Stars, Worn

MovieBob addresses some of the rumors around the new upcoming Stars Wars trilogy.

Watch Video

what was that about Peter Parker at 4:10?
no, noooo, I love superior Spider-man, it pisses all over the potential of killing Parker in the ultimates universe n just replacing him with a black peter parker

Is it bad this was the main thing I took away from this as well?

FFS, while it's obvious they were going to bring him back, couldn't they have waited more than a year? Actually give this arc some meaning and time to develop naturally? Superhero deaths are already dime-a-dozen by this point, keeping Peter dead the extra 12 months or so would hopefully give it a bit of impact, but no, back to life for Peter.

It's not as if Superior isn't selling well either, but I guess they need to status quo back for when the movie comes out...

if the first film is anything to go by, its gonna take more than ruining the comic to make the sequal look good

What do you mean it's been almost a year since we talked about Star Wars on this show?

*checks the archives* Yup, Continuity Wars back in February 26 of last year. Damn!

OK, back on topic. I seriously want Episode VII to be a passing of the torch to the next generation rather than jerking off the fanboys one more time for a safe buck. I've seen this happen before and it never works out for the best. Best example of that is the same one Bob mentioned in the video - Blues Brothers 2000. I saw that sequel in theaters and, as a fan of the original movie, this did not live up to the first one at all. Blues Brothers was one of those films that did not need a sequel, especially one that just retread the same old shit but with a PG-13 rating and certain magic-based WTF moments. -_- This is also why I'm hesitant on that "always mentioned by Dan Aykroyd but hasn't gotten anywhere near pre-production" Ghostbusters 3 movie. As cool as it sounds to have a next gen take over the duties of the veteran busters, I highly doubt it will pan out. Mostly because Bill Murray isn't in a position to relive the past for a paycheck. Unlike his co-stars, he's doing mighty fine where he's at these days.

I hope to God Disney has some common sense to put the brakes on any half-baked ideas J.J. Abrams and do this sequel properly. They either need a co-director to keep J.J. on a short leash or have him placed in a role where he can do the least amount of damage (like head janitor of Epcot Center). This is not the time to repeat the mistakes of the past, both in terms of the prequels or the botched sequels of popular movies. If they want this to be their latest meal ticket, then they need to stop listening to the whiny bitches of the Internet that have no clue what they want, stop rehashing what has been done with this franchise, and start taking it into a new direction.

TechTim:
Han dies as a "shock moment", maybe. I feel more likely Luke dies protecting Han, Leah, and sidekicks.

Ford originally championed the idea of killing Han in Return Of The Jedi to raise the stakes. His reasons made perfect sense plot wise and would have added what Joss Wheadon cleverly called "Possible Wild Bunch ending" in Serenity. (As in they could all die) So no, sorry Bob I didn't hear it from you first.

Again without being too negative, the constant smug questioning of motives of everyone involved really struck me as "I will not get hyped about this and be proved right when it does not reach fan expectations" PLENTY of movies have gone through development hell and been fine films so that is not really a valid point. ANY polishing of scripts or bringing in of talented writers can be a plus. If you don't believe me then go to a writers group and see how discussion can elevate a script. In relation to that: Shitting on Irvin Kershner was paticularly cheap. It is very easy to pick someone's worst work and throw it in front of them when you want to make a smug point. (I quite enjoyed Dreamcatcher despite it's massive problems. Great cast, great chemistry) Then, flipping round at the end and saying that "making another trilogy is the best thing they can do with the franchise at this point" just made me groan. What bothered me most wasn't the viewpoint, it was the cheapness of the shots being taken and the assumptions and cynicism involved. I guess it's all part of being a "cinephile" as opposed to a movie lover.

It felt like by taking an incredibly cynical view but still being totally down the middle in terms of expectations feels like Bob covering himself for people calling him out on flipping opinions like with 'Man Of Steel' For god's sake have an opinion and stick to it. Even if it is unpopular. (Like me with Dreamcatcher!)

It's easy to remove the old characters and make the new ones central... they did it in the books. They kill Chewy (just like in the book), sending Han into a depressed state where he stays out of touch with just about everyone (just like in the books), Luke has New Jedi Order business to attend to (just like in the books) and you can make the main Force user's Han and Leia's children and craft stories around them (just like in the books). I also feel that this is right up JJ Abrams alley as he basically ruined Star Trek by taking all the science out of it (something that Star Wars is completely devoid of). He will be awesome as a Star Wars director as the series lends itself to more action based stories. We'll see how it goes though.

Also, this new fresh restart speech that Bob made seems like a trap. He made the exact same argument for Man of Steel, and then came forwarded with how much he hated it, ad nauseum. It would be fine except he hated it because it was so far removed the Richard Donner films, something he himself wanted. But, all well.

I'm sure they will be fine films in their own right... though I have to say, if I see anymore spinny twirly Jedi shit, I'm gonna lose my shit. It just doesn't make sense for them to always be spinning in circles!

I'm not looking forward to whatever shit JJ Abrams throws into the movie. I'd much rather watch that Mace Windu crack Bob outlined.

And Han dying is a perfect answer to the question of why Harrison Ford would accept to do the movie lol.

Zachary Amaranth:

People actually laughed at the "reveal" in Into Darkness at the theater a friend of mine went to.

I could totally see it happening again. Abrams pats himself on the back while viewers laugh.

I did too. I even tried to stop myself from laughing because I knew it was coming but I couldn't, it was so dumb I still lost it. I got quite a few looks lol.

I am all for bringing back the original characters, but every time I try to imagine the original actors reprising their roles in anything other than a cameo, I start to feel uncomfortable and embarrassed. I just have such a hard time imagining that bringing back the original actors would be less sad than going to a high school reunion and seeing a sixty-year-old dressed up like the cheerleader she was four decades ago to try to recapture the glory of a life that has since passed her by.

Just speaking purely from my opinion please don't freak out any star wars fans, am I the only one that really doesn't care about the new star wars trilogy?

I mean yeah its kind of exciting to see more of it, but I think star wars is just a really tired franchise and I really don't see anyone pumping new life into it very easy, also disney seems alot more interested in making gobtons of money off the name as opposed to actually making a good movie,

I have hope that they will turn out to be good but I think some people are blowing it way out of proportion as "the biggest thing on the internet"

And now I want to go watch star wars. . .

-M

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here