Jimquisition: Why So Serious?

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PunkRex:

Fappy:

Also, kind of off topic, but is Zhang He your favorite DW character? Every time you show footage of DW you are always playing as him XD

It's because of the dance party he hosted that one time, isn't it?

Who else is as fabulous?

Also, what dance party!?

Best DW ending of all time:

Akichi Daikashima:

CAPTCHA: change yourself

YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO CAPTCHA, YOU'RE NOT MY REAL PARENT ANYWAY!

Ha! Good one!

Mojo:
I still cant get over how the Sniper woman looks in Metal Gear Solid 5. Maybe her clothes (or lack of) have some sort of explanation that I don't get as I've not played any of the games myself, but come on. Why is every male character in that trailer dressed absolutely normal, but the one woman has super tight, revealing clothes and a tied together bikini. Shes not blending in with the environment or gaining any functionality from that outfit, but oh well...

If you had the chance to influence some really hot cosplay, wouldn't you? Ya, it's pretty blatant that they only want you to admire her high-polygon butt. She could end up being an interesting character. Just that she'll end up being an interesting character with her T and A all in your face. I've met some interesting strippers before, so it's not entirely impossible.

Can't say that I can relate with this episode.

Resident Evil 4 is easily in my top 5 games of all time and I've had a lot of fun tearing it apart for fun. I've seen plenty of other people in my circle or even on twitch do the same. Maybe I just don't frequent enough game forums whose fanbase takes things to seriously.

I suppose I'm asking a bit much of a 6 minute internet video, but perhaps a bit more in-depth analysis of this problem would make more sense?

As both a video game and CCG hobbyist, I get to spend a lot of time on forums like this one talking about the things I love, and I am familiar with phenomenon of which Jim speaks, and I'm pretty sure I know why people are being serious. They're being forced to.

Head #1 of the Hydra: The Internet
This is the Internet, and 15 years ago, when it was the Wild West of communications, pretty much no one cared what level of crazy you were. These days, people have cottoned to just how much information is available on the Internet, and with debates happening everywhere as fast as the electrons can carry them, people are getting more used to malarkey being shoveled, and now have the tools to fight said malarkey. So any claim on the Internet may come with a tacit or explicit 'show your work' in order to be 'taken seriously.' I know I've caught myself reflexing hunting for proof before I make an opinion post. I can't imagine I'm alone.

Head #2 of the Hydra: Dicks
There are some people who will say something and then try to get away with their faux pas by claiming that they're kidding. I don't tolerate these people IRL, and I imagine broad stretches of the Internet are the same. I've watched people get swarmed with reports when they intend some lighthearted satire, and the mods capitulate just to shut the mob up, because to some, they are indistinguishable from people being dicks.

Head #3 of the Hydra: Console Wars
I'm sure you know what I mean. People like to be on the winning team, because it gives them license to be a dick to the losers, and that's something we all want: to be dicks, occasionally. Console manufacturers stirring that pot for press is obnoxious, but understandable.

Head #4 of the Hydra: The nature of comedy
I haven't tried especially hard to be a comedian in my life, but I do try to be funny where I can, and I've noticed that unless you specifically cordon off where the comedy is happening, some people won't get it. Notice how the reaction to flash mobs is typically confusion, rather than amusement? That's because people didn't know they were past the comedy tape. Once they're aware, then the laughing starts. If someone doesn't feel something is funny, they may have moved the comedy tape. There's no saving it, then. Worse still, if someone steps outside the comedy tape, they can occasionally move others to do the same.

Is this another one of those videos that state the obvious and comb over the entire gaming community as a collective dick?
I laughed at the makeup though, that was funny.

People are morons, especially anonymous gits who spend half a minute skimming articles and blurbing out nonsense. If you really think lecturing people will help, go nuts, but why not just ignore these petty corners of the internet and make things that brighten up the mood a bit?

I love you Jim. I want you and miniature Willem Dafoe in a dragon dildo gagging contest. Just leave the miserable sods out of that lovemaking, yeah?

Bayushi_Kouya:

Head #4 of the Hydra: The nature of comedy
I haven't tried especially hard to be a comedian in my life, but I do try to be funny where I can, and I've noticed that unless you specifically cordon off where the comedy is happening, some people won't get it. Notice how the reaction to flash mobs is typically confusion, rather than amusement? That's because people didn't know they were past the comedy tape. Once they're aware, then the laughing starts. If someone doesn't feel something is funny, they may have moved the comedy tape. There's no saving it, then. Worse still, if someone steps outside the comedy tape, they can occasionally move others to do the same.

Great post. Your insight made a lot more sense to me than the vid.

That last part in the quote, was one of the things I was thinking about while watching - How do you know when people are joking or not..?
Sometimes I'll laugh at a post due to what seems like obvious sarcasm, but then I read into what the person is saying and they're being dead serious.
Since we don't know the person who might be making a joke and if it's in general discussion, there's just no immediate way to spot humor.

Fappy:

PunkRex:

Fappy:

Also, kind of off topic, but is Zhang He your favorite DW character? Every time you show footage of DW you are always playing as him XD

It's because of the dance party he hosted that one time, isn't it?

Who else is as fabulous?

Also, what dance party!?

Best DW ending of all time:

OH YEAH, HAHA! I actually completed 5 with every character, I forgot.

Dance you glorious bastard!

rasputin0009:

I've met some interesting strippers before, so it's not entirely impossible.

I can't help but be reminded of that Critical Miss strip,

This one, to be precise:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10271-On-Dongles

To be honest though, it's Hideo Kojima being Hideo Kojima again.

Let's not forget Mistral, and every other female character he has written in recent memory.

(Also, those quasi-creepy tweets about asking cosplayers to dress up as her in a "sexy" way, as if he is going to ogle his female fanbase).

Good episode. I wish more people could take a tasteful joke about their chosen fandoms. As a Nintendo fan I do sometimes laugh at the more creative Wii U jokes even now after the quite bad announcements this week, so it is kind of depressing seeing people lash out against jokes made towards well received and respected franchises.

The flaws of a franchise give it character and sometimes those flaws are hilarious. This isn't a bad thing. Would the old 3D Sonic games still be as enjoyable if the voice acting and plots were decent? Probably not.

Jimothy Sterling:
Why So Serious?

Jim makes a point about humor and defensive fandoms the only way he knows how - by dressing up in silly costumes and exploiting tired old film references.

Watch Video

I agree completely with you about people over-using the term "troll". It's like people forget that the point of the term was to describe someone who something specifically to bait an irate response (or a flamewar, if you will); to try and get under someone's skin. Yet I'm known as "the troll" in my WoW guild because I tend to tell the most jokes and love bad puns.

This doesn't apply to games I like, right?

Racecarlock:

Saints Row IV and Far Cry 3 blood dragon seem to be the only games last year that actually wanted to have fun.

If "have fun" is a way of saying "hollow clown face," yeah.

canadamus_prime:
One does have to recognize the difference between light hearted ribbing of something and legitimate trolling. Although that can be difficult sometimes.

The problem is we're so sensitive (overall) that we tend to go immediately to "troll" or "hater" when it's not valid. Ivé been called a hater or a troll for specific and focus criticisms right after praising a product. GTA V is the latest example, but far from the only one. I hate it so much I've spent over a week in online. I HATE IT SO MUCH. I just got called a fanboy--twice-for suggesting that Sony's streaming service would be better received than Xbone's original "always online/no used games" strategy. I'm not sure I even like the streaming service idea, but I'm a Sony fanboy for suggesting others might.

One thing I have to give is that with Jimothy Sterling, it often is a blurred line. But again, I think the overall point is the haste with which we get offended because someone "hates" the things we like.

JoJo:
Heh, very true, though I wonder how Yahtzee would take your comment about most good jokes coming from a place of love.

Well, he did say most.

C.S.Strowbridge:
In defense of some of the people you talk about, sometimes it's hard to tell online when someone is joking.

He gives a decent way to parse for context, though.

Mahoshonen:

If you haven't noticed, some of Yahtzee's best reviews were of games that wound up getting on his "top five best games" list.

On a personal note, some of my favourites are the games he rips into that I like. I mean, I still sometimes think he's off base, but my primary goal is entertainment anyway, and there's always somethign wrong with a game, so....

Agreed, though on the internet it is a bit hard (at least for me) to differentiate between trolling and a legitimate, honest post.

Is it weird that the use of the dated reference instantly reminded me of when P!nk made the same dated reference in her song "Raise Your Glass"? Though the dated reference was really out of place in that song. http://youtu.be/XjVNlG5cZyQ?t=34s

As has been mentioned before, Pokémon is a series that fits this perfectly. Fans of the series accept the preposterousness of what is going on. There are entire webcomics about how silly things are. We have a shared sense of community because we all accept the silliness.

Wait, Jim, what episode did you make jokes about Metal Gear Solid V? I'd have to watch it myself to judge if it was made out of love for the series or not, because it depends on the delivery of the joke. Nowadays, a lot of statements classified as "jokes" are really mean-spirited and spiteful, i.e. Family Guy and recent seasons of Robot Chicken.
We're also in the midst of games that try to be "serious", thinking of "fun" as an afterthought.

Caramel Frappe:

In the Walking Dead, there is humor to the game. There are jokes here and there, along with multiple levels of emotions flying about that makes the game a masterpiece. If I was not allowed to joke about a character because something happens to them in game later- well.. wow okay. I also know Jim is telling the truth because try making jokes about Spec Ops: The Line with hardcore fans of the game.

Despite you mean no harm, they'll probably rip you a new one.

There are hardcore fans of THAT game? Yikes. I bet they're a fun, easy-going bunch.

What's that Barbie game that runs in the background? It looks actually interesting...

I think the problem is the medium (gaming) is in an awkward, "puberty-like" if you will, stage. We keep getting from one side of the industry "Games are serious things, games are art!" and the demand to be taken more seriously and respected. While the other half just wants to have fun, and that "What ever happened to when games were designed to be fun, instead of gritty and realistic?"

I think people can get so polarized to one side that in the case of videogames as art, they can only see their games as serious things. We keeping getting inundated that games are more than just entertainment, and I think they lose focus that entertainment, can be entertaining as well as insightful. Sure there will always be games that are made for specifically the intent of being fun or arty but, it doesn't mean every other game has to fit into only those dimensions.

Overall people just need to chill and realise, like Jim said that your allowed to criticize and make fun of something that you love and enjoy.

So to help you people here is Jeremy Irons from the Dungeons and Dragons movie:

Racecarlock:
Saints Row IV and Far Cry 3 blood dragon seem to be the only games last year that actually wanted to have fun.

Have you tried Shadow Warrior or Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance?

A good episode but who was that mysterious man?

Mikeyfell:
I really like this episode, but according to the new forum Code of Conduct I'm not allowed to have a sense of humor about things I like, because you do, and you're a content creator for the site, and the audience isn't allowed to do anything that a content creator does.

You ruined it Jim, thank God for nothing.

You know, saying such ridiculous things as "I'm not allowed to do anything a content creator does" doesn't demonstrate a point, it makes you look silly.

The rule has been there since I joined in 2009.

Besides, Jim was typing in the OP, and if we're not allowed to do anyth[USER TERMINATED]

rasputin0009:
If you had the chance to influence some really hot cosplay, wouldn't you? Ya, it's pretty blatant that they only want you to admire her high-polygon butt. She could end up being an interesting character. Just that she'll end up being an interesting character with her T and A all in your face.

After MGS4 I'm not sure what Kojima is thinking. The idolized slaughter of dozens of FROGs in the end (who might not have been evil persons per se, but their emotions controlled via nanobots) even during No Kills -playthrough was really disturbing. Also, no male soldiers for Liquid Ocelot, only the Amazon Brigade (check TV Tropes)? OK...?

is this the case for most fanbases or is it mostly a video game thing?

If this is a video game thing I really want to know why so many gamers are so insecure about their favorite games, somebody using shitty character models in a racing game as proof that the game sucks should not be taken seriously.

Sarcasm in text form on the internet doesn't work at all though and especially here where every little thing that might be construed as offensive will get you warnings and an eventual ban, you can't afford this if you want to keep your posting rights and are best off typing for someone who will take everything you say 100% at face value.
I'm serious, I've never seen a harsher place than here.

The "you're trolling" accusation is quickly made and pretty much conditions us into being mostly humorless.
If you took a good standup comedian and let them do their thing they do to audiences here in text form, they'd probably be banned.

So I went and looked it up and boy I'm glad I did:

http://www.destructoid.com/ten-golden-rules-of-online-gaming-64474.phtml

Especially the part about Gears of War and shotguns. When Gears 3 came out, man, there was so much bitching about how people weren't just running around playing using only the shotgun. Who cares if a rifle is automatically placed in your hand every time you spawn? Rifles are cheap power weapons because they can kill you from far away and if you use it you suck at the game.

Also those character models for GT6 really are hilarious, especially that guy putting his hands up in the air. That's great.

... Wait, this doesn't look ANYTHING like the Early Access video that I saw last week! It's a completely different topic altogether! Jim how could you! After investing perfectly good money I had all my hopes dashed when the final product is nothing like what I initially paid for.

(begins to cry)

Forget you pal, thanks for nothing!

OT: You see what I did there? The reference to an old Simpsons reference at the end? Anywho, yeah it's a sad time when we can't learn to take a joke. I remember a few months back when I purposely misreferenced the Steam Machine with Xbox One, accusing one product of having the faults of another. I even went as far as correcting myself at the end of the jab to make sure people got it, and while most people seemed to get the joke, there were two pricks that couldn't even see the giant "IT'S A JOKE! I'M MAKING A FUNNY!" sign posted afterwards.

Thank God for you and this episode, Jim!

There are so many people in some of my other communities that will be getting a link to this video.

Fappy:
Agreed on all points.

Also, kind of off topic, but is Zhang He your favorite DW character? Every time you show footage of DW you are always playing as him XD

It's because of the dance party he hosted that one time, isn't it?

He is my favorite. I love camp characters a lot, and he is especially cool.

The footage I use is from one monster playthrough I recorded for an old Destructoid video. I recorded so much of it that I hate to think I'm wasting it, hence I use it all the time when I mention DW.

An old Troll rationalization, and I mean old as in pretty much originating with the titling of the concept, was that a troll would claim to do the target a favor by finding a topic to vex them about. "I'm here to desensitize you to racial slurs/ Holocaust Denial/ Bronies bro, because it's necessary. My apparent amusement is an unintended but welcome side effect." See also; "conversation hacking."

There's any numbers of problems with that; one is that they shouldn't get to make that choice. Another is that it was an utter lie, of course. But a third was that it could toxify comedy. When the topic is mocking MGS's spastic shifts of tone and bizarre characters it's a small step to go from poking fun at the tropes to poking fun at the people who enjoy those tropes.

But why give a shit? Really? Do we not in the end only allow ourselves to be trolled?

While there are places to go to get pissed off, far more popular are sites to gather around and gush about something excellent. And that's not the problem. The problem is when an unwelcome and uninvited bridge dweller starts rooting around looking for places to get his johnson rammed in ("Sniper Wolf totally broke my heart;" "whiteknight virgin much bro?") and finds a way to get involved. Because he can. Because this is the Internet, where any conversation can be ruined by the least socialized denominator buzzing on the application of GIFT theory.

Why So Srs? Because the line between sincerely comedic and maliciously disruptive doesn't exist, and to laugh is to trust. And trusting and sincerity and vulnerability are weakness when THIS IS SPARTA-ing poseurs make the rules.

The difference between Comedy and Trolling in the eye of the beholder. Andy Kaufman's style of comedy was undeniably deliberate trolling, and is still a form of comedy. One thing to keep in mind is that sarcasm doesn't translate well, and will frequently be seen as trolling, or serious.

I love Symphony of the Night, it's my most favorite game ever. I realize it has terrible voice acting, but I love it all the more for that. If the voice acting was super professional and serous, some of the charm would be lost forever. Same with the original Resident Evil.

Wilco86:

rasputin0009:
If you had the chance to influence some really hot cosplay, wouldn't you? Ya, it's pretty blatant that they only want you to admire her high-polygon butt. She could end up being an interesting character. Just that she'll end up being an interesting character with her T and A all in your face.

After MGS4 I'm not sure what Kojima is thinking. The idolized slaughter of dozens of FROGs in the end (who might not have been evil persons per se, but their emotions controlled via nanobots) even during No Kills -playthrough was really disturbing. Also, no male soldiers for Liquid Ocelot, only the Amazon Brigade (check TV Tropes)? OK...?

This.
The FROG Slaughter was creepy.
Ocelot's suicide chipping them to incinerate based their perceived "defeat" was deeply unpleasant; I bet the misfire rate on them wasn't small if the bearer couldn't be knocked unconscious without burning to death to boot (nevermind collateral deaths caused by ammunition and explosive cook-off). But undermined by the usual squeamishness. A little scream, and than the remains are gone. How pat. Cowardice is no reward; MGS4 could have been Spec Ops: The Line years earlier.

I posit that so much of the problem was having a very good anti-war message but being so ham-handed and tone-deaf in it's execution. The FROGS. The simplistic depictions of the PMC soldiers. Johnny Akiba. The idea that the nanobot combat systems were actually insulating their users from mental trauma and the fallout of that system being disabled manages to insult actual veterans, PTSD victims, and the entire concept of human courage. Wow. I never faulted Kojima with lacking ambition, but that's a wide blow to strike.
It's not just offensive, it offends me to have liked it. That's the worst part personally. I really liked MGS1, and looked forward to MGS2. But if the whole program was an elaborate bait-and-troll lesson on being anti-war from someone who things people crap themselves when they contemplate violence I kind of want to register my grievances in person.
Thanks for tainting the idea, you idiot. Thanks for taking someone relevant and important and flavoring it fresh dog crap because you thought it would make it better.

xPixelatedx:
I love Symphony of the Night, it's my most favorite game ever. I realize it has terrible voice acting, but I love it all the more for that. If the voice acting was super professional and serous, some of the charm would be lost forever. Same with the original Resident Evil.

My favorite video game voice acting was in the original X-Men Arcade Game. What does that say about me? :P

Jimothy Sterling:

Fappy:
Agreed on all points.

Also, kind of off topic, but is Zhang He your favorite DW character? Every time you show footage of DW you are always playing as him XD

It's because of the dance party he hosted that one time, isn't it?

He is my favorite. I love camp characters a lot, and he is especially cool.

The footage I use is from one monster playthrough I recorded for an old Destructoid video. I recorded so much of it that I hate to think I'm wasting it, hence I use it all the time when I mention DW.

Being called the "camp" character in a Dynasty Warriors game is saying A LOT

XD

Mojo:
I still cant get over how the Sniper woman looks in Metal Gear Solid 5. Maybe her clothes (or lack of) have some sort of explanation that I don't get as I've not played any of the games myself, but come on. Why is every male character in that trailer dressed absolutely normal, but the one woman has super tight, revealing clothes and a tied together bikini. Shes not blending in with the environment or gaining any functionality from that outfit, but oh well...

Yeah... that "youth who cursed his fate" or something... perfectly normaly dressed.

NO character EVER in a MGS game was ever dressed normaly :P

And last i checked the whole scene was in a desert.. pretty hot out there and as a sniper you usually have to spend long times in the same spot.

Anyways... MGS games are ridiculus when it comes to clothing for males and females. Dont feel to bad about this one stereotypical (in games) female outfit. For a MGS game it is pretty tame.

OT:

A joke is a joke.

An entire article about a joke is a bit to much.

That is why i find Critical Miss (mostly) funny and a page long rant about one aspect of a game not. Its as if jim would make an entire 10 minute episode ONLY about the crappy audience bashing us over the head repeatedly with the same joke.

Or let me put it this way:

A joke that you drag on forever is not funny and makes you look like a douche. (hey there channel "awesome")

Make it short and sweet and it works. But dont waste an entirep age explaining the joke.

To be able to speak seriously about a subject, you need to be able to joke about it, otherwise it just shows that you are not able to distance yourself and look objectively.

TwiZtah:
To be able to speak seriously about a subject, you need to be able to joke about it, otherwise it just shows that you are not able to distance yourself and look objectively.

When does a joke stop being a joke and turn into a petty rant?

Personally i think its when you write an entire page long about nothing but the "joke".

"Get it guys? hehe... the audience... is really crappy looking... get it? Uh.. guys? Guys where are you going? Oh come on guys.. its funny!"

an excellent video with some very valid points but the issue is far more deeper and wide spread. one nasty side effect ive noticed since the net has developed into something pretty much everyone uses is that no matter what your beliefs or ideas you can now find some group that shares those views. now it sounds great in theory, people no longer thinking they are alone, having others they can share things with, etc

but the result is that absolutely everything has become polarised and people have become extremophiles. by that look at anything and you will find the majority of comments will be this is the best thing that has ever existed or this thing murders kittens, puppies, everything cute and good in the known or unknown universe

so grow the fuck up people! find something you absolutely love and find a few flaws in it, look for something you loath and find something good about it even if its the joy it brings someone else

i love alpha protocol but the hacking minigame is a pain in the ass and the pistol skill tree breaks the entire game, i also detest bioshock but the concept was interesting and the arrivial in rapture was frankly stunning and one of the best introductions to a game ive seen

brocolli is the exception though that shit is just plain wrong

Well, got to say it was correct (maybe not insightful). I am a major fan of tenchu, but damn that series was silly and ridiculously fun all in the same bundle.

Those npcs and the things they say, lol.

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