Zero Punctuation: Might & Magic X: Legacy

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MM6 is my favourite game ever. In my opinion in terms of game features it was way ahead of its time. For instance there was no level cap, you could literally just be leveling up forever and become a god. Also, there was no ending to the game, you beat the last quest, got a nice little congratulatory cinematic and then the game said alright off you trot back into the world. On every map monsters would respawn so you could keep playing for ever too.

One of the coolest features, and Skyrim and other RPGs hasn't managed this is that you aged in game. I remember one game where it was possible to click agree to work for a farmer for 2 weeks and in exchange you would get paid. I remembered thinking "well this is awesome! This is the first town and in no time I'll have all the money I'll need to buy the best equipment." After whoring myself out about 1000x, I took one step and all my characters promptly died. When I looked to see why it was because each one was in their 90s. My characters had spent their entire lives as simple peasant farmers and had failed to save the world.

So much nostalgia for MM6, I might try installing it on my new PC and playthrough again.

Abomination:
Considering how very little explanation or suggestions are given when it comes to leveling a character one can quickly put themselves in a situation of possessing an ineffective party - forcing a game restart - it's a poor combination.

I find that quite charming actually :)

That was an interesting entry into the field of Australian politics with that last punchline. Certainly made me laugh, although I'm not exactly a fan of the LNP, and I do know more Liberals that hate Abbott than I know Liberals who like him. So probably a reasonably bipartisan joke.

Azahul:
That was an interesting entry into the field of Australian politics with that last punchline. Certainly made me laugh, although I'm not exactly a fan of the LNP, and I do know more Liberals that hate Abbott than I know Liberals who like him. So probably a reasonably bipartisan joke.

Yeah, wonder how many of his audience will know who that is.

I agree with the grid based movement seeming silly when it's perfectly viable to have proper free roaming. Now I enjoyed Legend of Grimrock but that was a first time indy game, the only Might and Magic game I ever played was IX and that was certainly more ambitious. However, two months ago I was browsing the MMX forum page on steam, and apparently many of the series 'fans' were quite adamant that it had to be grid based for it to be a proper MM game. I guess that's the side the developers listened too.

RandV80:
I agree with the grid based movement seeming silly when it's perfectly viable to have proper free roaming. Now I enjoyed Legend of Grimrock but that was a first time indy game, the only Might and Magic game I ever played was IX and that was certainly more ambitious. However, two months ago I was browsing the MMX forum page on steam, and apparently many of the series 'fans' were quite adamant that it had to be grid based for it to be a proper MM game. I guess that's the side the developers listened too.

Even Betrayal at Krondor had free roaming. And that was in DOS. Might and Magic 6 and, to a lesser degree, 7 really seemed to get that open-world should mean you can wander (almost) anywhere. I'm not sure what the appeal of gridding everything is supposed to be. It sounds like a step or two backwards.

Oh hush, Yahtzee. Baten Kaitos's card system was pretty clever in terms of its design, and you absolutely got to see the attacks as they happened. It was a solid hybridization of card-based combat and turn-based video game RPG combat, and BK series itself honestly should be held up as some of the Gamecube's best games, period. Just because it used cards as a mechanic of its combat system doesn't mean that it was trying to be "retro" or anything. Heck, they even explained the magnus (card) system by integrating it into the very story of the game series itself. :p

My only experiences with first person dungeon crawlers are with Legend of Grimrock, Wizardry 8, Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey (awesome game btw) and Orcs & Elves for the NDS and I absolutely loved every single one of them.

Though, the hardest might be Wizardry 8, everything you said in the review (I lol'd pretty hard xD) reminded me a LOT of W8 (Wizardry 8, not "wait" or "weight"). These games definitely are NOT for everyone, but they're a great challenge for anyone who ventures into them.

I also like that W8 is not grid based and you can roam almost anywhere you want, though that comes at the expense of encountering a bunch of monsters want to rip off my face and nipples.

lol Really nicely done this week Yahtzee. That is, if you ever scroll down to read this comment...

Speaking of which, the "is one thing/is quite another part" is pretty much Dark Souls for me in a nutshell.

Azahul:
That was an interesting entry into the field of Australian politics with that last punchline. Certainly made me laugh, although I'm not exactly a fan of the LNP, and I do know more Liberals that hate Abbott than I know Liberals who like him. So probably a reasonably bipartisan joke.

I wouldn't say that was a joke about Tony Abbott... it was more of a general swipe at an unfortunately rising majority of Australians who shun the opinions of scientists and academics because they are 'elitist', whilst reveling in their own home-spun wisdom. Eg. 'Don't listen to them pinko scientists saying the world is warming, I can tell you that last July was the coldest winter Dubbo has ever had.'

Tony Abbott is simply a consequence of such people existing in concert with compulsory voting.

Evonisia:
This whole video was worth it just for the fast talking segment. Though statements against Current Gen consoles, their games and Modern Military Shooters fell out of place, however accurate the statements were.

I guess the flames of caustic spite burned a little too bright for containment. Yahtzee truly is at his best when he's got an excuse to dip things in acid, set them on fire, and then stab the charred remains for good measure.

I've played MM4, MM5 and MM6 to death back in the days.

However that is one type of gameplay I'm not too keen on revisiting. I mean, I liked Legends of Grimrock, gave me that old school RPG fix, but that's mainly because it went so overboard with being old-school it actually found the perfect spot. MMX just appears to reside in that uncanny zone where it doesn't really hit the nostalgia notes that well yet is not good enough to stand on its own (because then it wouldn't be called frikkin Might and Magic X).

BlueJoneleth:
I enjoy the game besides it's flaws.

Though the grid combat was abandoned in MM6 so it's kind of weird they brought it back for this game.

Also every single game except this one actually has an auto note feature with stuff like :

THIS GUY TEACHES EXPERT SHIELD SKILL AT (X,Y) IN THIS AREA.

Seriously why didn't they add this in the game -_-".

They brought it back because a certain group of indie devs had a rather smashing success with a game about very grim rocks.

Then again the might and magic series has allways been rather... ahem.. not what it could have been after world of Xeen, allways a step behind its time especialy in the graphics and game mechanics department.

Good to see they keep up the tradition with this one.. they even went back a step.. god forbid they would actually allow you to retreat from unwinnable sitations you got into because lets say you explored just one step to far into a direction and ran into some banshees even thought you just wanted to check that mausoleum around the corner.... bitter? who? me?

Karadalis:
...god forbid they would actually allow you to retreat from unwinnable sitations you got into...

That's what saving and loading was for back in the day...

Two really good mom jokes, oh dear.

Actually I never played any Might & Magic. They never seemed interesting to me

IMO "Might and Magic X" is what 90% of the games out there should be like, OMG, you have think/explore as opposed to just talking about it and having a self-validate your intelligence? The real problem I have with MM X is that they simplified it a bit too much, I think there should have been more skill/race/class combos and more involved leveling up. Truthfully I think the true CRPG genere was hitting it's stride with say the last few Wizardry games.

I will admit that the lack of a journal keeping track of the trainers has been noted, though honestly that is what note keeping is for. In general if they were going to be nice enough to give you an auto-map they might as well have done a better job marking it. Truthfully I've kind of been hoping to see more in the "Etrian Odyssey" vein where all this new fangled touch screen technology is used to simply enable you to draw your map electronically. Albeit, you can't yet do that with personal computers.

Perhaps we will get lucky and we'll see a full on AAA release of some games like this, perhaps even going so far as to include a file allowing you to print your own graph paper in order to set the right attitude for gamers who need to finaly learn what real gaming is. Sort of like how the original Might and Magic games helpfully came with a map pad of paper... that was your "automap" (cackles maniacally).

Of course I'd also expect huge portions of gamers to leave the hobby and discover there is a whole world outside the monitor, leaving us nerds to our thing once again, and that would be a blessing. :)

(I'll leave people to ponder to wonder to what degree I'm serious here).

It has been a while since I played a Might and Magic game. I forgot about having to hunt down trainers in that game.

baba44713:
I've played MM4, MM5 and MM6 to death back in the days.

However that is one type of gameplay I'm not too keen on revisiting. I mean, I liked Legends of Grimrock, gave me that old school RPG fix, but that's mainly because it went so overboard with being old-school it actually found the perfect spot. MMX just appears to reside in that uncanny zone where it doesn't really hit the nostalgia notes that well yet is not good enough to stand on its own (because then it wouldn't be called frikkin Might and Magic X).

Actually it's not a failed RPG that needed the M&M name to help flog it. In fact I'm starting to think that making it an M&M reboot might of been more detrimental than helpful. It came into existence due to one lone developer bugging Ubisoft over the years to make the game and they finally relented. It takes it's game play from World of Xeen because that was the favourite of the developers, and if you've played any M&M before six, and enjoyed them, then this is a pretty good game.

I wanted this game to be good so badly but it's not. It's a sad little Legend of Grimrock lookalike an a big step backward from MM6-8. Between this and the new Dungeon Keeper abomination I guess we really can't have nice things anymore

Evonisia:
This whole video was worth it just for the fast talking segment. Though statements against Current Gen consoles, their games and Modern Military Shooters fell out of place, however accurate the statements were.

Yahtzee is clearly playing his greatest hits. Though I was pissed off there were no MuhMorPuhGuh riffs. I even waited for the encore, and nothing. Why the snub? I didn't hold this lighter up for my health!

Ah killer man. Killer. Great review. That was surely zero punctuation there at the end. You still have it brother. Great points too about how if the tile and card games of yore had better graphics they would have used them. Still, I think there's a place for them now. I would like to think that games like M&M encourage the player to use their imaginations a bit. Like when I was a little kid playing the first Final Fantasy game on my neighbor's NES. Those graphics didn't look very epic, but in my mind it wasn't just a sprite moving across the screen to strike another sprite. It was a Red Mage rolling away from an attack, coming up to his feet and launching a ball of fire at his opponent. It was a black belt dodging the wide swing of an enemy spear to come up close to his opponent and unleash a flurry of punches at him. I saw the sprites move, but in my imagination there was a hell of a lot more going on. I hope they keep games simple to some degree, because if Final Fantasy 13 taught me anything it's that an over-reliance on graphics can make the game less interesting.

WHY? Why would you have an Audio/Video Advertisement on a video review website!?!?!

I can't watch YOUR video because of that stupid ad that keeps repeating itself. No the 'skip' function does not work, it's just a trick to get me to visit their website by clicking on it.

I think I've refreshed the part twenty times now! What were you thinking!?

To everyone who dislikes grid based movement I get it. But it's not all bad.

First off the game, like the one's it's modeled after, is based on the concept that everything you do takes a "turn". Buffs and debuffs are not timer based, but turn based. Battle is obviously turn based, and movement is turn based because it would pretty much break the rest of the game mechanic if it wasn't. Yes you could have free roaming and make each step take a turn, but it would have a devastating effect on the turn based combat. It's use makes the game much more strategy than reaction based.

For example you enter into battle, you have enough NPCs that it looks like they'll surround you eventually if you let them, but there's a hallway one step to the right and two behind you. Do you move taking ranged damage every time you move till you reach the hallway, or do you go straight back so they can't get behind you and take a bit less damage, or do you stand your ground and use your sleep spell (that might fail) to reduce the NPCs that can hit you?
Or you see some NPCs but you're not in battle with them yet. There are three different routes you can take towards them, do you take the one that means you can used ranged but gives them the ability to eventually surround you, or do you take another that means less ranged but they can't surround you, or do you try to get behind them?

Other things like resting, trainers, limited fast travel, and what have you are again a nod to the older M&M games. It's not done to be a PitA, it's done so that every action has consequences. Do you sleep reducing your supplies and forcing a trip to a tavern sooner, or continue exploring on the hope that you won't get wiped by the next NPC party you meet? Do you go get your shield trained up, or do you continue till your crusader get's his paladin?
Even how you hit the buff squares has an optimal strategy before you enter a dungeon. For example the paladin upgrade dungeon Cursed Ruins is pretty hard but there are four buff squares in the open world that give some significant buffs once a day. So if you pay attention and know about the four buffs, save them till you can get all of them, and move so that you reduce their duration as little as possible the dungeon is much easier to do (it's still hard at too low a level though).

The one area where this game gives people new to the game type a break is with the difficulty curve, it actually has one. In the earlier M&M games you could pretty much go anywhere you wanted, and get wiped in the process, right from the very start. I remember in M&M III Isles of Terra, I did a random teleport to another town that was occupied by high level NPCs, instat-kill time. Plus there were two innocent looking bridges outside of the starting town and both led to higher level areas. Getting wiped after crossing both bridges taught me something.
Think! About every last thing you do. A new NPC you don't recognize? What's the other NPCs in this area been like? If they were pretty easy to kill, give it a shot. If not make sure you're at full strength with ton's of pots and scrolls before you engage, then maybe avoid him any way.
Well this reboot actually locks a lot more content than any other M&M game I've played so that you don't find yourself getting instat-killed, ever. If you do find your getting wiped a lot I have a suggestion. Stop! Think! Don't just mash the attack button! Pay attention to every little thing because there's hints suggesting more effective strategies all threw the game, but you need to notice them.

TL/DR This isn't a bad game, in fact for it's type it's a pretty good one. But you really have to be paying attention and using the game rules to your advantage, because it'll eat you if you don't. Consider it a more cerebral than reaction based RPG and you'll be fine.

The funniest thing was the rapid-fire rant at the broken combat controls and the lack of direction in this game! Well done, sir! It is baffling how the latest installment of this series (which I almost forgot existed since I can't remember when IX came out) revived an outdated control scheme.

Zachary Amaranth:

Evonisia:
This whole video was worth it just for the fast talking segment. Though statements against Current Gen consoles, their games and Modern Military Shooters fell out of place, however accurate the statements were.

Yahtzee is clearly playing his greatest hits. Though I was pissed off there were no MuhMorPuhGuh riffs. I even waited for the encore, and nothing. Why the snub? I didn't hold this lighter up for my health!

I believe it's pronounced "MUH-MOHR-PUH-GER".

Darth_Payn:

I believe it's pronounced "MUH-MOHR-PUH-GER".

I'm oldschool, man. Don't tell me what to call the songs! I was there when the band was first trying them out!

Maybe Yahtzee should've played at Adventurer difficulty. It is not really hard to take down Minotaurs right out from Castle Portmeyron. And it took me until midway Act II to realize how badly optimized my party actually was. Still didn't start a new game because of it. Made those losers tough it up and push onwards despite being woefully unequipped to face their challenges.

But in any case, the game's limitations were all due to the tiny budget of the game. It was priced as an indie title because it was pretty much budgeted like a high-end indie. A prettier Legend of Grimmrock. Heck, I'm actually amazed that Yahtzee even reviewed it. Ubisoft didn't exactly advertise the game. How the hell did he even know it was released? At the very least I thought he'd like to play a game for once where you can actually bite more than you can chew. Wasn't that the reason he liked Max Payne 3? Because it allowed for failure?

Anyway, the game was made into grid mostly because it didn't have the budget to make it free-roaming. Heck, it didn't even have the budget to animate the character portraits. Or give them ragdolls. The only reason it even looks as good as it does was because it had access to terabytes of art assets from previous Might & Magic titles from Ubi (even though this is the first "proper" Might and Magic title Ubi published).

Yes, I too would have preferred a free-roaming Might and Magic. But that'll only be a possibility if Ubisoft greenlights another sequel with a budget large enough to at least buy two grilled cheese sandwiches (or maybe, one can dream, three grilled cheese sandwiches!). But to be fair, they did an amazing job by balancing and designing the game around the grid.

T3hSource:
That last punchline was perfect lmao

So spiteful, so angry. I've never even considered playing M&M, yet I have Dungeons of Dreadmore on my list.

This, and Tales of Maj'Eyal (my current roguelike), come to mind immediately the second he starts bitching about grid based combat. Like it's part of the game and I would absolutely not want to change it, because the games are about making *exactly* the right move. On the other hand they have much simpler graphics that *fit* the grid based combat.

Of course, ToME would probably drive Yahtzee nuts for other reasons like it still gets free gameplay updates in the 'unfinished' model and even has an optional lives system (the other option being fuck you you made a single mistake and we deleted your save in true rogue-like fashion).

Oh it's been a while since we had one quite this fun. Also nice to see Plissken with something to do after he reset the world.

Falterfire:
Somebody else remembered Battleforge! WHOOOO!

I thought it was funny that he brought it up with 'dealing out cards' when Battleforge absolutely did let you see the giant monsters on the cards brutally murderize each other.

I second your emotion complettly. Sadly it was brought down by EA

Evonisia:

Mr. Q:
I guess MovieBob isn't the only one suffering from the "fuck all is coming out" first months of the new year. The only thing I could possibly see Yahtzee getting into is the HD release of Resident Evil 4 for PC's. But that won't come out until February 27 and, even if he does review it, its gonna be another week or two before that particular video pops up on Escapist.

Perfect opportunity to do several things though:

Retro review Resident Evil 4
Talk about how great PC gaming is.
Talk about how great PS2 gaming was.
Talk about how shit next (even though it's current) gen is.

But we'll have to wait another month for that, darn. Or maybe it's an oppurtunity to talk about how great the Gamecube was, depending on what version he had.

Maybe, prior to that he could do a retrospective on the Resident Evil games leading up to #4 like he did with the Prince of Persia games. Give the viewers his opinion on where the series went right and where it went wrong... aside from the storyline, of course.

The part from 4:24 to 4:44 was Grade A+ Yahtzee! Absolutely brilliant warp-speed section there.

Sounds like a shitty version of Etrian Odyssey.

THAT series does grid based movement right (mostly because the only reason they have it is so you can literally map out the dungeon yourself with ease on the bottom screen of the DS). That and towns are quick menu based affairs, skills are super simple to upgrade and manage, and the combat can get friendishly difficult at times.

Why yes, I am a fan of the EO games and I highly reccomend them if you have a DS. EO4 is on the 3Ds and it's really well done.

Also DAT ENDING TO THIS EPISODE WAS AMAZING. XD

The ending... Just... Wow...

Also, yeah, the porpoise of retro games are to bring back the type of game from the past, and add modern conventions. I suppose it might simply be my ignorance, though :P

But you could have played Heroes of Might and Magic III and realized that it is the best game that has ever had faeries in it...including the Zelda games. You also wouldn't have had to print out the entire wiki on the game either. Also, Squares are terrible, hexs are where it's at.

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