3 Things Skyrim Players Need to Know About ESO

3 Things Skyrim Players Need to Know About ESO

If you're hoping that The Elder Scrolls Online is just like Skyrim, there's some big differences you should know about.

Read Full Article

Isn't the Beta still under NDA?

Kill100577:
Isn't the Beta still under NDA?

The embargo for the press beta event lifted today at 10am EST.

Sounds like it should have gone more star wars galaxies than star wars the old Republic.

So... you're saying it's an MMO... like any other MMO... and not at all like an Elder Scrolls game... pretty much what I expected so I more than likely won't be playing it, I just hope that if it fails it doesn't impact the quality/time frame of Fallout 4 and The Elder Scrolls 6.

PedroSteckecilo:
So... you're saying it's an MMO... like any other MMO... and not at all like an Elder Scrolls game... pretty much what I expected so I more than likely won't be playing it, I just hope that if it fails it doesn't impact the quality/time frame of Fallout 4 and The Elder Scrolls 6.

Except that it is a lot more like Skyrim than it is like WoW...

It's just not quite Skyrim 2.0.

Why do they cling to old and tired MMO tropes when many modern MMO's have already shown that they aren't necessary?

Why just mention Skyrim? Why no mention of similarities to previous TES games?

PedroSteckecilo:
So... you're saying it's an MMO... like any other MMO... and not at all like an Elder Scrolls game... pretty much what I expected so I more than likely won't be playing it, I just hope that if it fails it doesn't impact the quality/time frame of Fallout 4 and The Elder Scrolls 6.

Actually he didn't say that at all. But you're inclined to see it however you like.

ShakerSilver:
Why just mention Skyrim? Why no mention of similarities to previous TES games?

It's possible that a large portion of Skyrim's fanbase had never played an Elder Scrolls game before. There's a good chance that there are plenty of people who would purchase TESO simply based on the fact that they enjoyed Skyrim. This is a gentle warning to those people I guess.

I'm in two minds whether or not I want this. On one hand I really enjoy the worlds and lore of TES but on the other hand I've never really liked any MMO. I think I'll wait this one out.

PedroSteckecilo:
I just hope that if it fails it doesn't impact the quality/time frame of Fallout 4 and The Elder Scrolls 6.

It won't. Completely different developers. Published by Bethesda, but developed by Zenimax Online Studios.

Honestly, it sounds quite similar to Guild Wars 2... I think? I only started playing GW2 fairly recently, so maybe I'm not best placed to judge.

Proverbial Jon:

ShakerSilver:
Why just mention Skyrim? Why no mention of similarities to previous TES games?

It's possible that a large portion of Skyrim's fanbase had never played an Elder Scrolls game before. There's a good chance that there are plenty of people who would purchase TESO simply based on the fact that they enjoyed Skyrim. This is a gentle warning to those people I guess.

I'm in two minds whether or not I want this. On one hand I really enjoy the worlds and lore of TES but on the other hand I've never really liked any MMO. I think I'll wait this one out.

Don't go into TESO expecting a TES game. 'cuz it's really not a TES game at all. Go into it for other reasons.

The one thing it has in common with Skyrim is the lack of beast legs. This shouldn't be the case for an MMO. They've had plenty of time to make it happen, but ultimately failed.
WoW managed it 10 years ago, and it wasn't a one-off thing either. They managed it for all races that had different looks. Ie, Tauren, Troll, Drenei, Worgen, and Pandaren all have proper feet. Hell, they managed it for every expansion that added new races.

I can't see how the only 2 races needing beast legs in the entire lore for an MMO, with no chance that future expansions will add more races, will still have human feet.
I'd stomach this if it was a single-player experience with limited resources that has the option of modding them in, but not a big-budget MMO.

I was actually playing beta right now. So far after 6 hours the only thing I liked was character creator. The rest feels more empty and meaningless... No, that doesn't reflect the reality of ESO. You now how in Skyrim you could be Archmage, Guildmaster of Thieves and leader of Companions, and nobody gives a flying fuck? It's like this, but times five hundred. NPCs keep telling you how special you are, but that becomes hard to believe when there are hundreds of carbon copies of you running around. And they are all special. Everyone is special in ESO.

Trying to be as general as I can be to hide from the wrath of lawyers :P

I'm not easily enthralled by MMOs and tend to hate the core elements of MMO games. The one thing I do really like is the story elements and the way it plays out feel more like a single player game than a MMO. So I been playing the ESO beta I'm not very satisfied with their class system and complete overhaul of the spell system. Basically you can still be a dual wielding axe mage or a magic casting warrior but there are issues which make the magic casting warrior pointless. So I have been a mage,dragon knight and an assassin/thief , my only real complaint to combat has been auto aim.

The world is big enough and looks good and there are plenty of quests I'm just annoyed it has lvl reqs(which is almost a req for an MMO) which always piss me off and I cannot build how I want like in Champions online frankly it's only saving grace is you can build your own unique character selecting any power/ability as long as you have the reqs for it (which require you to have X number power/abilities) tho you can only do that via subscription(cheap time cards FTW).

I been thinking and they would have been better off using skyrim/oblivion and just set the scale of skills from 100 to 1000 or 10000. And attributes can be raised anyway you want just you get to do it 3 or 5 times longer. Then have no level cap offer delving services for a fee so you can play through expansions without being too over powered. PVP would be open only when you log in you can select if you want to be part of PVP if not you are immune to PVP attacks outside arenas. PVP gear would be based on whoever is killed equipment. Dups of their equipment will be randomly generated based on the items worth and the winner's stats all those who fought IE did damage whoever was killed will get a chance at looting. An optional 2nd tier of PVP mode will make it so the equipment is not duped rather it's just randomly generated based on the winners stats IE what you might find and remove from a normal corpse only it is removed from the losers inventory. Players can band together to buy homes, castles, ect and make them their guild headquarters,ect. Just some thoughts.

Really Offensive Name:
The one thing it has in common with Skyrim is the lack of beast legs. This shouldn't be the case for an MMO. They've had plenty of time to make it happen, but ultimately failed.
WoW managed it 10 years ago, and it wasn't a one-off thing either. They managed it for all races that had different looks. Ie, Tauren, Troll, Drenei, Worgen, and Pandaren all have proper feet. Hell, they managed it for every expansion that added new races.

I can't see how the only 2 races needing beast legs in the entire lore for an MMO, with no chance that future expansions will add more races, will still have human feet.
I'd stomach this if it was a single-player experience with limited resources that has the option of modding them in, but not a big-budget MMO.

How much Elder Scrolls lore do you know? Khajiit come in a bunch of different flavours, ranging from almost housecats through to what is basically a catgirl and I'm not lying. Some are digitigrade, some are plantigrade. Same deal with argonians, except they range from lizard people to nearly crocodiles.

Seriously, read the lore. It gets weirder than that. Trees, moons, it's seriously bizarre.

Niccolo:

Really Offensive Name:
snip

How much Elder Scrolls lore do you know? Khajiit come in a bunch of different flavours, ranging from almost housecats through to what is basically a catgirl and I'm not lying. Some are digitigrade, some are plantigrade. Same deal with argonians, except they range from lizard people to nearly crocodiles.

Seriously, read the lore. It gets weirder than that. Trees, moons, it's seriously bizarre.

I have actually, not very far into it, but enough to see Bethesda's excuse for why they have human feet. Which, as I have said, I can understand, tolerate, and get behind for a single-player game. Not a full-blown MMO.

I don't see why they feel the need to hide behind the lore, and not copy WoW's technique of using ankle bracelets instead of boots. Has Blizzard patented that or something?

The Environment is More Static

The first major difference between the The Elder Scrolls Online and Skyrim is the game world itself. One of the highlights of Skyrim was that it featured a huge open world to explore, and you could wander into all manner of quests, encounters and other shenanigans just by going for a brief stroll from one village to the next. Unfortunately, technical limitations most likely prevent TESO from having the same giant sandbox seen in previous Elder Scrolls games, and instead adopts a more linear, story-based approach with a wide variety of different locales instead.

Well, there goes any flagging interest interest I had. If ESO doesn't have this, it doesn't deserve to have the words "Elder Scrolls" in front of it. It's the defining feature of the series. Before anybody says it, I know that most MMOs are like this, but that doesn't excuse it. Off the top of my head I can think of EVE Online and Star Trek Online as two examples of MMOs that allow you to just wander around aimlessly and fall feet first into quests and other random distractions, so it's not as if it's impossible to do. What's worse is the classic Elder Scrolls formula is the perfect formula for an MMO, all they really had to do was basically make Skyrim with other players running around and it would have worked perfectly.

immortalfrieza:

The Environment is More Static

The first major difference between the The Elder Scrolls Online and Skyrim is the game world itself. One of the highlights of Skyrim was that it featured a huge open world to explore, and you could wander into all manner of quests, encounters and other shenanigans just by going for a brief stroll from one village to the next. Unfortunately, technical limitations most likely prevent TESO from having the same giant sandbox seen in previous Elder Scrolls games, and instead adopts a more linear, story-based approach with a wide variety of different locales instead.

Well, there goes any flagging interest interest I had. If ESO doesn't have this, it doesn't deserve to have the words "Elder Scrolls" in front of it. It's the defining feature of the series. Before anybody says it, I know that most MMOs are like this, but that doesn't excuse it. Off the top of my head I can think of EVE Online and Star Trek Online as two examples of MMOs that allow you to just wander around aimlessly and fall feet first into quests and other random distractions, so it's not as if it's impossible to do. What's worse is the classic Elder Scrolls formula is the perfect formula for an MMO, all they really had to do was basically make Skyrim with other players running around and it would have worked perfectly.

Just tacking on multiplayer to Skyrim (or any other TES game) isn't feasible because the parts that define the TES experience are system resource-expensive as they are.

I'll spare the technical details where possible, but just due to how the Gamebryo Engine tracks Actors (interactive objects, stuff you can pick up, equip, use, and place) is HORRIBLY inefficient for multiplayer. Hell, it was horribly inefficient for just ONE PLAYER on the PS3.

A different engine entirely was necessary from the start, and with it, most of the things that gives TES its famous "immersion factor" had to be dumbed down or eliminated; A more static environment was an inevitable change.

This is mainly why I never once got my hopes up for a TES MMO. The closest thing in gaming currently is Star Wars Galaxies, but even that handled objects radically differently than any TES game to date.

In short: There's no way to translate TES into an MMO while retaining the full TES experience.
Limited multiplayer, probably, but full on MMO? Not a chance.

I am not looking forward to this at all....and this is coming from a Elder Scrolls fan since Morrowind.

Atmos Duality:

immortalfrieza:

The Environment is More Static

The first major difference between the The Elder Scrolls Online and Skyrim is the game world itself. One of the highlights of Skyrim was that it featured a huge open world to explore, and you could wander into all manner of quests, encounters and other shenanigans just by going for a brief stroll from one village to the next. Unfortunately, technical limitations most likely prevent TESO from having the same giant sandbox seen in previous Elder Scrolls games, and instead adopts a more linear, story-based approach with a wide variety of different locales instead.

Well, there goes any flagging interest interest I had. If ESO doesn't have this, it doesn't deserve to have the words "Elder Scrolls" in front of it. It's the defining feature of the series. Before anybody says it, I know that most MMOs are like this, but that doesn't excuse it. Off the top of my head I can think of EVE Online and Star Trek Online as two examples of MMOs that allow you to just wander around aimlessly and fall feet first into quests and other random distractions, so it's not as if it's impossible to do. What's worse is the classic Elder Scrolls formula is the perfect formula for an MMO, all they really had to do was basically make Skyrim with other players running around and it would have worked perfectly.

Just tacking on multiplayer to Skyrim (or any other TES game) isn't feasible because the parts that define the TES experience are system resource-expensive as they are.

I'll spare the technical details where possible, but just due to how the Gamebryo Engine tracks Actors (interactive objects, stuff you can pick up, equip, use, and place) is HORRIBLY inefficient for multiplayer. Hell, it was horribly inefficient for just ONE PLAYER on the PS3.

A different engine entirely was necessary from the start, and with it, most of the things that gives TES its famous "immersion factor" had to be dumbed down or eliminated; A more static environment was an inevitable change.

This is mainly why I never once got my hopes up for a TES MMO. The closest thing in gaming currently is Star Wars Galaxies, but even that handled objects radically differently than any TES game to date.

In short: There's no way to translate TES into an MMO while retaining the full TES experience.
Limited multiplayer, probably, but full on MMO? Not a chance.

There's also the fact that that line wasn't true (or from a different game entirely). I stumbled onto a bunch of quests playing the beta, some easier to find than others. The distances between cities are greater, granted, but there's still a lot of value in exploration.

Nimzabaat:

There's also the fact that that line wasn't true (or from a different game entirely).

"That line"
There are many, including one cited from the article. Which line is not true?
I'm unsure of how to comment until that's clarified.

Atmos Duality:
-snip-

I think he meant the one quoted from the article, i.e. "The Environment is More Static"

What I really miss in ESO are ragdolls. Playing crossgolf with skeleton's heads is just too much fun to be left out of a modern Elder Scrolls game

Atmos Duality:

Just tacking on multiplayer to Skyrim (or any other TES game) isn't feasible because the parts that define the TES experience are system resource-expensive as they are.

I'll spare the technical details where possible, but just due to how the Gamebryo Engine tracks Actors (interactive objects, stuff you can pick up, equip, use, and place) is HORRIBLY inefficient for multiplayer. Hell, it was horribly inefficient for just ONE PLAYER on the PS3.

A different engine entirely was necessary from the start, and with it, most of the things that gives TES its famous "immersion factor" had to be dumbed down or eliminated; A more static environment was an inevitable change.

This is mainly why I never once got my hopes up for a TES MMO. The closest thing in gaming currently is Star Wars Galaxies, but even that handled objects radically differently than any TES game to date.

In short: There's no way to translate TES into an MMO while retaining the full TES experience.
Limited multiplayer, probably, but full on MMO? Not a chance.

There's plenty of ways, they just don't give enough of a damn to bother. Why give the fans what they actually want when they can just copy off of WoW like everybody else does?

immortalfrieza:

There's plenty of ways, they just don't give enough of a damn to bother.

Well, the lore, setting and some of the mechanics will translate easily, but the full freedom of movement and ability to interact with the environment had to be restricted or reduced from the native predecessors. (that, more than anything, is what separates Bethesda "Megagames" from other sandbox games)

Why give the fans what they actually want when they can just copy off of WoW like everybody else does?

Because WoW is defines the MMO genre for the lowest common denominator, and because of this some companies are convinced that cloning WoW is always a safe bet.

Atmos Duality:

Well, the lore, setting and some of the mechanics will translate easily, but the full freedom of movement and ability to interact with the environment had to be restricted or reduced from the native predecessors. (that, more than anything, is what separates Bethesda "Megagames" from other sandbox games)

I can't see what can't be directly transferred over to work in an MMO. Random events? High respawn rate. Wandering creatures? Again, high respawn rate. Random loot to run into? Yet again, high respawn rate. The only thing that needs to be altered for the mechanics in general is to rebalance so it can't be exploited so damned easily and become uber invincible guy. If the game is too resource intensive, then don't go for "THE BEST GRAPHICS EVAR!" or anything like that. Dial it back to something around Oblivion's level, most computers these days can handle that.

Because WoW is defines the MMO genre for the lowest common denominator, and because of this some companies are convinced that cloning WoW is always a safe bet.

You'd think after the multitude of MMOs where this has proven to be anything but a "safe bet", they've have gotten the hint by now.

So they have taken everything good out of Skyrim and slapped the rest in to a generic MMO?

[sarcasm]Did not see that happening.[/sarcasm]

immortalfrieza:

I can't see what can't be directly transferred over to work in an MMO. Random events? High respawn rate. Wandering creatures? Again, high respawn rate. Random loot to run into? Yet again, high respawn rate. The only thing that needs to be altered for the mechanics in general is to rebalance so it can't be exploited so damned easily and become uber invincible guy.

Ahhh, the infamous power curve.
There's a reason all MMOs deliberately drag out their game with grind, it's to create deliberate disparity between those with way too much time (or money, as permitted) vs those who don't. Envy and power are strong motivators to make the slackers play more.

If the game is too resource intensive, then don't go for "THE BEST GRAPHICS EVAR!" or anything like that. Dial it back to something around Oblivion's level, most computers these days can handle that.

Graphics are -not- the central issue here, actually.

If you've ever worked with the Gamebryo engine, you would understand that MOST actor placement is initially static, and that all changes to actors the player interacts with are logged and added to the save file.
Bump that table and all the objects on it? Save change to file.
Steal that shiny silver sword off the imperial captain's desk? Save to change file.
Etc.

And since the player can possess, remove (sell) OR place any Unique ID'd object at any time, that change has to be logged too. (even worse: most placed items have an NPC owner and their own flags)

It was done that way because unlike most games that only associate object (actor) states with positioning (like Terraria or Minecraft) OR their current owner (like World of Warcraft), TES games are positively MASSIVE. It's not possible to load the entire game world state into memory and keep track of everything. So, the logical solution is to use an inverse model of that, where you only track the changes the player makes to the initial world state.

What this means: Every change is tallied and saved to your character's file, and as the game goes on, most of those tallies remain, so the file mostly grows larger as time goes on (there are timers that "reset" zones and objects, wiping the changes clean and shortening the save file, but they take a long time in in-game time to occur; much slower than the average player is likely to interact new objects).

If you played any TES game since Morrowind, you may have noticed how it takes incrementally longer to load the game or enter certain areas as you keep playing: That's due to the game having to load this growing save file.

To make a long story short, it's immersive but incredibly resource inefficient (specifically, active memory).
And that's just for ONE PLAYER. ONE. UNO. EIN.

In fact, it's so inefficient that the growing save file was reported as (eventually) rendering the PS3 version of Skyrim unplayable. The poor PS3 eventually runs out of available RAM and cannot load the entire save file because it's just too damn big.

Now, imagine taking this highly inefficient system and multiplying it for EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER ON AN MMO SERVER.
There is no way it's feasible; even a Blade server would bank out well before the world population hit triple digits.

And that's why you CAN'T just tack multiplayer onto Skyrim and call it a day.
Yes, the SETTING is perfect for an MMO. The concept and massive scale of TES is perfect for an MMO. But the program model that Bethesda has built their reputation on is NOT. In fact, I'd call it the worst possible model to translate into an MMORPG.

An Elder Scrolls MMO absolutely required a new engine to even be possible, and for better or worse, some of the immersive elements had to go with it. There is no other way.

You'd think after the multitude of MMOs where this has proven to be anything but a "safe bet", they've have gotten the hint by now.

You'd be surprised at just how out of touch most AAA game companies are with gamers.

Atmos Duality:
Snip

I don't know about anybody else, but I've never had any issues in any Elder Scrolls game with ridiculous loading times or anything like that after playing for a long time, and the longest I've spent playing one is 300 hours altogether (Morrowind I think).

Besides, I never said that they had to use the Gamebryo engine, but whatever engine they use needs to be able to be used in a manner similar to the single player Elder Scrolls games. Those "more immersive elements" they decided to ditch because they didn't care enough? Those are the things that make the Elder Scroll popular as it is, without them it has nothing. I also doubt the issue you mentioned is insurmountable, and even if it is then just drop the part saving the positioning of most objects, problem solved. The positioning of objects is never really critical anyway, probably the only time it would even be necessary is in player homes, and that would take up far less memory unless the players did something stupid like pile the entire thing full beer bottles or something, that's under the assumption they are going to have player homes of course. Since it's an MMO this kinda thing would probably be contained in the game's servers instead of just the player's computers anyway.

I too am NOT looking forward to this (500+ hours of playing Morrowind w/mods)

From viewing game footage, its just a dumb-down, MMO version of Elder Scrolls (and that was without the helpful game engine information Atmos Duality provided) I made the same comment on the youtube gameplay; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv4hW4Gp1No&list=PLQdTEbfvB8NRcarRbCD9UOH1gQtTsuygF static and VERY linear

1. You can't "kill" or even attack NPC's (quest givers). In Morrowind, I ended up attacking the Mage guild leader and others getting kicked out, for example. I also, remember stealing from different members of the guild and getting away with it, none of that in ESO.

2. The quests I saw were very directed and had (2) choices:
A. Next part to quest
B. Goodbye
No real alternatives or choices

3. Way too much preliminary information given to player. Lack of any mystery with maps.

4. Did I mentioned too linear and very dumb-down version of Elder Scrolls??

'nuff said

I too am NOT looking forward to this (500+ hours of playing Morrowind w/mods)

From viewing game footage, its just a dumb-down, MMO version of Elder Scrolls (and that was without the helpful game engine information Atmos Duality provided) I made the same comment on the youtube gameplay; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv4hW4Gp1No&list=PLQdTEbfvB8NRcarRbCD9UOH1gQtTsuygF static and VERY linear

1. You can't "kill" or even attack NPC's (quest givers). In Morrowind, I ended up attacking the Mage guild leader and others getting kicked out, for example. I also, remember stealing from different members of the guild and getting away with it, none of that in ESO.

2. The quests I saw were very directed and had (2) choices:
A. Next part to quest
B. Goodbye
No real alternatives or choices

3. Way too much preliminary information given to player. Lack of any mystery with maps.

4. Did I mentioned too linear and very dumb-down version of Elder Scrolls??

'nuff said

My only real annoyances with it are the following:

A) You sell things for a couple gold, the same things which you BUY for HUNDREDS of gold. Even if you just bought it and want to give it back, you sell it and get 2-4% if what the item cost you.

B) Stamina. Stamina drains way too quickly, is in too short supply, because it is used for just about everything. Block? There goes your stamina. Dodged? There goes your stamina. Sneaking? There goes your stamina. Attacked? There goes your stamina. Try to move around the world at a better pace? There goes your stamina. This leaves you drained when you try to fight something, and if you don't kill what you're facing in the first second or two, you're left without the means to defend yourself or push the attack because you're out of stamina for the rest of the fight without enough regen to block or dodge more than once maybe 10 seconds later after you've been ravaged.

C) Auto Targeting. This is frustrating as hell. While it feels better than most MMOs, it's all the more frustrating because it seems to try to give you that feeling of being in a more immersive game than "Click that, watch your attack animations repeat". Auto Targeting makes enemy attacks, save for the ones that display the red foreshadowing, impossible to avoid. There was a loading screen that said that Fleeing is a perfectly valid thing to do. BULLSH**. You can't run from anything. You stamina drops after two seconds meanwhile the enemy can still keep up perfectly fine, and HIT YOU REPEATEDLY as you try to move AWAY from them, disregarding any actual reach on their part. What's more, it's just not satisfying to shoot someone with an arrow when aiming is actually pointless. Lined up a headshot? Well, tough titties because that other guy who aimed at the wall hit the same as you did.

D) Classes/Ability Progression. The abilities you get are awfully linear and quickly grow bland. Just about every sorcerer walks around with a Clannfear. You don't have a lot of options until late in the game, and the majority of your time is spent using the same 1-3 moves over and over. Not only that but all the abilities feel... weak.

Heavy or Light armor has no point behind them unless you invest your skill points into them for fairly small benefits instead of investing them into your class progression. The class progression being which mostly linear path(s) of 3 you choose to follow. There isn't any point in using Light Armor (Robes) as a spellcaster when you could be running around in more useful heavy armor. To which I'd also point out that all the armor visually feels the same.

Minor annoyance:
It is seriously quite the moodkiller when some oh-so-serious quest giver wants you to save a whole island, save the city, recover the precious super-unique artifact... when 30 other people are there doing it as well. Or when you walk in to see the boss already dead then just wait a bit for the boss to repeatedly respawn with the dozen other people waiting around with you.

 

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here