Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII Review

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Sounds like Bravely Default is going to be the best Final Fantasy game this year.

Trishbot:
Sounds like Bravely Default is going to be the best Final Fantasy game this year.

Is there some arbitrary standard for Final Fantasy games that I am not aware of?

KazeAizen:

Trishbot:
Sounds like Bravely Default is going to be the best Final Fantasy game this year.

Is there some arbitrary standard for Final Fantasy games that I am not aware of?

Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

james.sponge:

KazeAizen:

Trishbot:
Sounds like Bravely Default is going to be the best Final Fantasy game this year.

Is there some arbitrary standard for Final Fantasy games that I am not aware of?

Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

KazeAizen:

james.sponge:

KazeAizen:

Is there some arbitrary standard for Final Fantasy games that I am not aware of?

Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

It's actually quite simple FF1-6 + FFT and FF9 qualify and the rest of them are below the standard ;)

KazeAizen:

james.sponge:

KazeAizen:

Is there some arbitrary standard for Final Fantasy games that I am not aware of?

Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

There is no "standard", but most fans of FF hate anything after X with a fury passion because the style in gameplay changed. I'm one of those haters. Anyone playing an old and then a new FF game will immediately notice the massive differences (apart from graphics quality).

james.sponge:

KazeAizen:

james.sponge:

Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

It's actually quite simple FF1-6 + FFT and FF9 qualify and the rest of them are below the standard ;)

What no 7? See though this proves my point. No real standard for what does and doesn't qualify. Ergo people need to give a rest already. Hell XIII-2 got so much hate and bile spewed at it and it didn't even deserve it.

james.sponge:
Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

Careful now, your bias is showing.

Thanks for the review, Slycne. Quick note, however:

...in contrast to previous games like X-III 2 featuring elements like Valhalla...

That is most definitely not how roman numerals work.

Otherwise your review echoes what I had suspected about the game. I liked the first two XIII games, so I'm sure I'll end up thoroughly enjoying this one.

Arkhangelsk:

KazeAizen:

james.sponge:

Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

There is no "standard", but most fans of FF hate anything after X with a fury passion because the style in gameplay changed. I'm one of those haters. Anyone playing an old and then a new FF game will immediately notice the massive differences (apart from graphics quality).

So us new fans for jumping on after 9 and calling anything after that good get attacked and shown "the error of our ways." and why we shouldn't like X and beyond? You say there is no standard and you are right but the way people talk about it you sure could've fooled me into thinking there was some mystical chart or graph or score card that said otherwise.

Arkhangelsk:

KazeAizen:

james.sponge:

Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

There is no "standard", but most fans of FF hate anything after X with a fury passion because the style in gameplay changed. I'm one of those haters. Anyone playing an old and then a new FF game will immediately notice the massive differences (apart from graphics quality).

I wouldn't say it was the gameplay, more like atmosphere shifted, I would argue FFX was a step in right direction, as far as battle/summon systems are concerned, they dropped the ball with sphere grid, characters, heavy emphasis on fighting rather than exploration (something FF9 did quite well) and shallow uninspired world.

KazeAizen:

james.sponge:

KazeAizen:

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

It's actually quite simple FF1-6 + FFT and FF9 qualify and the rest of them are below the standard ;)

What no 7? See though this proves my point. No real standard for what does and doesn't qualify. Ergo people need to give a rest already. Hell XIII-2 got so much hate and bile spewed at it and it didn't even deserve it.

I was joking actually. Even though I dislike new entries, I can understand some people may find them appealing. And yes FF7 is bad ;)

I was not really holding my breath on this one. I'm sure it's completely fantastic looking, but I was hoping for a little more. Though, in fairness, a 3.5 out of 5 is not a bad game so I'll probably pick it up down the road. As far as great Square Enix games go though, I'm completely and utterly wrapped up in Bravely Default... that game is ridiculously awesome.

Eh, the XIII mythos became a little too convoluted for my liking. Here's hoping that XV is as awesome as it looks.

KazeAizen:

Arkhangelsk:

KazeAizen:

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

There is no "standard", but most fans of FF hate anything after X with a fury passion because the style in gameplay changed. I'm one of those haters. Anyone playing an old and then a new FF game will immediately notice the massive differences (apart from graphics quality).

So us new fans for jumping on after 9 and calling anything after that good get attacked and shown "the error of our ways." and why we shouldn't like X and beyond? You say there is no standard and you are right but the way people talk about it you sure could've fooled me into thinking there was some mystical chart or graph or score card that said otherwise.

I never said that, you can like whatever you want. It's just that we who preferred the old Final Fantasy games are perfectly justified in hating the newer generation of FF, given the abandoning of the old style that for us worked perfectly fine.

james.sponge:

Arkhangelsk:

KazeAizen:

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

There is no "standard", but most fans of FF hate anything after X with a fury passion because the style in gameplay changed. I'm one of those haters. Anyone playing an old and then a new FF game will immediately notice the massive differences (apart from graphics quality).

I wouldn't say it was the gameplay, more like atmosphere shifted, I would argue FFX was a step in right direction, as far as battle/summon systems are concerned, they dropped the ball with sphere grid, characters, heavy emphasis on fighting rather than exploration (something FF9 did quite well) and shallow uninspired world.

Well, I personally found the change from diverse open world to constrained linear world to be a bit too much for me, and their recent experimentation with the battle system hasn't worked out for the best in my opinion. FFX was really good though, but anything after that I haven't really liked.

Dead Raen:
Thanks for the review, Slycne. Quick note, however:

...in contrast to previous games like X-III 2 featuring elements like Valhalla...

That is most definitely not how roman numerals work.

Thanks, *grumbles something about this is what happens when you mix Roman numerals, hyphens and numbers while fixing it*.

Slycne:
Thanks, *grumbles something about this is what happens when you mix Roman numerals, hyphens and numbers while fixing it*.

Hey, I don't fault you for one second. The numbering of this particular set is nothing short of tedious. XIII, XIII-2, Lightning Returns: XIII... wat

james.sponge:

I was joking actually. Even though I dislike new entries, I can understand some people may find them appealing. And yes FF7 is bad ;)

Yeah it's as bad as 6 or any other entry.

Yuck, sounds like a dead duck to me, preorder cancelled! I just hope XV is going to be a Lot better than this...

A final fantasy where you can completely ignore every single minor encounter without crippling yourself?
Where the emphasis of battle is not on grinding for stats but on finding more efficient attack and defense combinations?

Sounds like something that respects my time for once.
Drop that levelup system that bullshits me about the "choice" I can never really make and you made an improvement in my book.
I don't know how to feel about stat growth being bound to "missions" though.
That has not been a good model for telling immersive stories so far, not in fft and especially not on X-2.
Going full zelda and only having "stat growth" in the shape of stuff you find that gives you more options sounds like the better plan to me.

Anyway this is a jrpg that truly tries to evolve and I can respect at least that.

So the bottom line it needs more breast "physics", typical you give a company a jillion dollar budget and they can't even get the small things right.

Captcha: Brand Lift

KazeAizen:

james.sponge:

KazeAizen:

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

It's actually quite simple FF1-6 + FFT and FF9 qualify and the rest of them are below the standard ;)

What no 7? See though this proves my point. No real standard for what does and doesn't qualify. Ergo people need to give a rest already. Hell XIII-2 got so much hate and bile spewed at it and it didn't even deserve it.

You mean the game with the pointless story that only had two playable characters? No, XIII-2 deserved all of the negative criticism it received. But what do I know? The last Final Fantasy game I enjoyed was X, since no one counts XI or XIV.

OT: I'm kind of surprised to see this game get such a high score. I mean, everything I saw for it has looked pretty bad. Not to say that my opinion should be the standard opinion, just surprised nonetheless. I wouldn't mind giving it a go sometime but the limited play time discourages me. I abhor time limits. I think they're a cheap way to convince people your game has replay value.

No big surprises here. I'm honestly starting too wonder if Square would even still exist as a company right now if not for the newfound success of FF14. They just seem so utterly averse too making good choices.

I'll wait for a Let's Play, or at least a video review showing the game in motion before I'll pass my judgement on it. Some things cannot be described to you; they have to be seen with your own eyes.

I'll be honest though, the review didn't hype my up for the game in any way, and given how bad I found XIII, I don't have very high expectations...

From what I understand, the Japanese didn't even like this game that much. X HD collection was outselling it in Japan.

Arkhangelsk:
Anyone playing an old and then a new FF game will immediately notice the massive differences (apart from graphics quality).

I did, however. I played XII as my first final fantasy several years ago. And I honestly like anything post X better than anything pre X. Except thirteen I suppose, story is just.. Ugh.

OT: I miiight buy this, I'll look at some gameplay videos first, and I'd need to watch a thirteen 2 playthrough first, or read a plot synopsis.

Despite having played and beaten every final fantasy game (sans XI and XIV), I won't be picking this up for one reason. The timer.

Having a timer completely drains the fun out of a game for me no matter how good it is. Being timed just stresses me out for some weird reason, even if its easy to manage. Haven't completed any of the Dead Rising games or Majora's Mask for the same reason, absolutely can't stand it. Sad part is that I do want to see how the story ends, but not if I'm gonna hate playing against the clock the whole time :(

Okay Square, now you've finished your little... whatever the hell 13 was, can we maybe get an FF game with abit of whimsy, you know, castles and pantaloons, deep dark forests filled with strange creatures, get away from this hot topic/leather fetish you seem to have had since 8 and 10. If only there was some sort of really, really good game that came out between those ones to demonstrate what I mean't!

As for the reveiw, it was very informative but you didn't really talk about the aesthetics in any depth, which is my favourite thing to talk/hear about. Although, given i've seen the last two games I can guess what it sounds/looks like, and I don't mean the graphics.

Another:
Despite having played and beaten every final fantasy game (sans XI and XIV), I won't be picking this up for one reason. The timer.

Having a timer completely drains the fun out of a game for me no matter how good it is. Being timed just stresses me out for some weird reason, even if its easy to manage. Haven't completed any of the Dead Rising games or Majora's Mask for the same reason, absolutely can't stand it. Sad part is that I do want to see how the story ends, but not if I'm gonna hate playing against the clock the whole time :(

Honestly majoras mask the timer wasn't a real timer as every time you played the song of time you reset it. It was only used for the day to day lives and events that transpired at certain times that made the game feel more alive. You kept all equipment regardless so the timer was more of something in some people's heads and I never noticed it. So it's still worth trying.

As for the hate for all post X ffs I don't understand it all my rl friends that have played them all seem to think X and xii were good ffxii had the most strategic combat system I've seen in the series and was hoping it would stick. I've played all ff games and a lot of the old ones have not aged well at all, the only ones I can go back and play are ff9 and ff4 outside of the ps2 era ones if I go back and try and play them.

Leonbelmont64:

Another:
Despite having played and beaten every final fantasy game (sans XI and XIV), I won't be picking this up for one reason. The timer.

Having a timer completely drains the fun out of a game for me no matter how good it is. Being timed just stresses me out for some weird reason, even if its easy to manage. Haven't completed any of the Dead Rising games or Majora's Mask for the same reason, absolutely can't stand it. Sad part is that I do want to see how the story ends, but not if I'm gonna hate playing against the clock the whole time :(

Honestly majoras mask the timer wasn't a real timer as every time you played the song of time you reset it. It was only used for the day to day lives and events that transpired at certain times that made the game feel more alive. You kept all equipment regardless so the timer was more of something in some people's heads and I never noticed it. So it's still worth trying.

I know, but for some reason I just can't do it. It's more that even being told that I'm on a time limit just bothers me. It's silly, but that's just how it is for me :/

So, as somebody who has never played a FF game before, but downloaded the demo for Lightning Returns and enjoyed it, should I consider buying this game or would it be a waste of time?

Tradjus:
No big surprises here. I'm honestly starting too wonder if Square would even still exist as a company right now if not for the newfound success of FF14. They just seem so utterly averse too making good choices.

I thought FF14 did badly?

KazeAizen:

james.sponge:

KazeAizen:

Is there some arbitrary standard for Final Fantasy games that I am not aware of?

Yes, and the standard died with FFX-2.

Please show me this arbitrary and convoluted standard for Final Fantasy games. I'd really like to see a solid graph or chart that has a list of them with a base line for what qualifies and what doesn't. You show me that.

First off...
image

And, since you asked...
image

PunkRex:
As for the reveiw, it was very informative but you didn't really talk about the aesthetics in any depth, which is my favourite thing to talk/hear about. Although, given i've seen the last two games I can guess what it sounds/looks like, and I don't mean the graphics.

If something is not great nor terrible we tend to avoid using space in a review for it.

In greater detail though I would say that the game has flashes of typical Square-Enix brilliance marred by a lot mediocrity - perhaps a statement that extend to the whole game. A good deal of the design work is excellent, like Lightning's garb and the occasional bit of architecture or location. But in greater proportion there is a bunch of laziness as well. Many of the NPCs, even those with speaking roles and scenes, appear as if someone simply hit random on a character creation and went with the first return. This is in turn coupled with the disparity between important models and textures and everything else as mentioned in the review. For instance, there was a quest concerning a cat early on that looked just awful. Outside of the visuals, the SFX didn't strike me either way, and similarly the music while in keeping with Square's generally high standard didn't particularly blow me away.

KazeAizen:
What no 7? See though this proves my point. No real standard for what does and doesn't qualify. Ergo people need to give a rest already. Hell XIII-2 got so much hate and bile spewed at it and it didn't even deserve it.

Oh, don't bother trying to argue with the haters. It just isn't worth your time and effort.

I love FF 7. And FF 5. And FF 10. And FF 13-2. FF 13-2 isn't anything like previous FF, but neither is FF 7 or FF 10. Sometimes good is just good - but a lot of people freak out if a game isn't exactly like its predecessors.

OT: Hell yeah! I can't wait to play FF 13-3! I just wish I had some extra cash at the moment so I could get it now.

I am a little sad about the lack of the FF 13-2 combat system - they did such a great job refining the one from FF 13 into something really fun - but I love the idea of quest-based leveling rather than battle based. It kinda reminds me of the "right" way to play FF 8 (the low-level run).

Being on a 13 hour timer is a bit intimidating, but perhaps they're trying to prevent perfectionists like me from getting 100% completion and the good ending the first time out?

Oh... I also wanted to say, KazeAizen... love the avatar. ^_~

Trishbot:
**snip**

Bravely Default does sound pretty neat. Too bad it's a 3DS game. If they port it to a system that I own, I'll give it a look.

Slycne:

PunkRex:
As for the reveiw, it was very informative but you didn't really talk about the aesthetics in any depth, which is my favourite thing to talk/hear about. Although, given i've seen the last two games I can guess what it sounds/looks like, and I don't mean the graphics.

If something is not great nor terrible we tend to avoid using space in a review for it.

In greater detail though I would say that the game has flashes of typical Square-Enix brilliance marred by a lot mediocrity - perhaps a statement that extend to the whole game. A good deal of the design work is excellent, like Lightning's garb and the occasional bit of architecture or location. But in greater proportion there is a bunch of laziness as well. Many of the NPCs, even those with speaking roles and scenes, appear as if someone simply hit random on a character creation and went with the first return. This is in turn coupled with the disparity between important models and textures and everything else as mentioned in the review. For instance, there was a quest concerning a cat early on that looked just awful. Outside of the visuals, the SFX didn't strike me either way, and similarly the music while in keeping with Square's generally high standard didn't particularly blow me away.

I guessed as much.

I don't blame Square for going down this route, just like I don't blame those who enjoy this futuristic, too cool to smile FF, I just don't get why they like it. Sazh and Fang seemed generally likable, as did Lighning and Vanille... sort of, but all the wonder I remember from playing 9 and, to a lesser extent, 7 seems long gone.

Oh well, I hear Bravery Default is mean't to be quite good.

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