No Right Answer: Superman vs Captain America - Most Patriotic Superhero

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Superman vs Captain America - Most Patriotic Superhero

Can Truth, Justice and the American Way trump someone with America in his name? Let's find out!

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Batman and Cap have fought!

There was company crossover too. I think it was a draw between the two. Can't remember the name of the series. Stuff like, Wolverine kick's Lobo's butt happens too. Big red guy trying to settle an argument with a big blue guy.

Superman is a leader for the JLA. He deserves props. I think he has the power, character and experiences to be a better leader than Cap.

Course, depends upon the genre. The movie characters in a heads on: Cap wins big time. Comics: Superman.

Superman was a great American icon. Now he's just another grimdark DC hero (movie). /yawn.

Most patriotic is Cap by far. Which is a different question entirely from which is the biggest icon. Prior to the live action movies of either back in the 70's, it was probably Superman. Now, hard to say.

Superman was, is, and always remains, the second most boring hero ever created. (Sorry Aquaman, your life sucks)
DC comics are choked with boring assed, over powered gods, and Kal is the biggest offender of them all.

Anyways, didn't both of them Renounce their American citizenship, precisely because of 'Merica! ?

Gorfias:
Batman and Cap have fought!

There was company crossover too. I think it was a draw between the two. Can't remember the name of the series. Stuff like, Wolverine kick's Lobo's butt happens too. Big red guy trying to settle an argument with a big blue guy.

Superman is a leader for the JLA. He deserves props. I think he has the power, character and experiences to be a better leader than Cap.

Course, depends upon the genre. The movie characters in a heads on: Cap wins big time. Comics: Superman.

So Batman fought Cap to a standstill. Spider-Man Killed batman, my takeaway: Spider-Man > Cap or Bats.

Spidey's Spider-Sense alone puts him above Batman's weight class. And, yeah, Spider-man is smarter, stronger, and faster than Captain America. I just don't see Steve Rogers winning that fight.

Gorfias:
Batman and Cap have fought!

Yeah! in DC VS Marvel comics. Captain America lost, but Batman still saved him, because he realized that Cap was lawful good.

Uhm. anyways Superman can't be 'american' considering he gave up his american citizenship in the comics fairly recently.

To counter Kyle's argument of Steve Rogers is just a abilities from a vial, not so. Merely his physical abilities. Steve Rogers became the man he is because he wasn't the strongest or the best. He was chosen (at least in the movies) for that reason to become the person he now is.

Also I seem to recall that Superman has technically led this country in a little comic called Injustice? I believe it didn't turn out so well.

Love the banter. Neat topic but feel like you chose two functionally identical heros inasmuch as their relationship with the U.S.A.. There's a lot of meaty discussion to be had with the idea of them as 'American' heroes who'd desperately like to represent the world.

Hm. If Superman were president, Batman's pretty much a shoe-in for head of CIA. ...I'm not sure I like how that cabinet is shaping up.

Side question, if readers from abroad don't mind answering - what would the most patriotic superhero for your country be? I'm not even sure this is a fair question to ask, though, seeing as how the majority of supers I'm aware of were written by U.S. folks. Any hometown heroes worth keeping my eyes open for?

Superman is stealing jobs from American superheroes.

What about Wonder Woman? I would of thought the Lasso of Truth would of been the perfect tool in the world of Politics.

Though an American friend of mine said while voting in a black man for president showed how far they had come he doubted he would ever seen a female president in his life time, he thought it was actually seen by many in the political circles as a much bigger taboo.

Maybe he used to be the most patriotic. But as of two movies ago, "Does he still stand for truth, justice, ... all that other stuff?". I think that alone pretty much sums it up as far as patriotism goes for Superman. (I liked the movie though - Kevin Spacey was a blast to watch in every scene as Lex - even if Superman spent way too much time pining over someone else's girl. Maybe jealousy is patriotic?).

And in the last movie, he's just as responsible for wanton distruction and loss of life as the "villain". As much as it was a Dragon Ball Z fight, he didn't make any effort to get Zod to follow him to a non-populated area like Goku would have done. Citizens everywhere be damned. Maybe completely disregarding the health and safety of your fellow man to reach your goal is patriotic? Noone in Metropolis had life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness once Superman decided that's where they'd have their showdown. He saved only the handfull of people that need to be around for the sequal, or he saved someone when the script needed to artificially pull on the audience's heart strings to give the illusion that his a hero. "All these people are dead - it's horrific" - say the director and script writer in my imagination - "Quick write a scene where he saves someone so we can remind everyone that he cares about people or something." They try real hard to make him Space Jesus. Maybe that's patriotic. A ham-fisted, obvious one that saves no one (saving is one of defining characterstics you would need) so they couldn't even do THAT right. I know of churches doing youth-group outings to see the film, and using the film as evidence that Superman represents their religious values by ascribing to the same religion. Maybe he's patriotic from a religious right perspective? I'm struggling to find ways for Superman to be patriotic.

It seems pretty obvious to me who is more patriotic - for right or for wrong. How is this even a debate?

SilverStuddedSquirre:

So Batman fought Cap to a standstill. Spider-Man Killed batman, my takeaway: Spider-Man > Cap or Bats.

Makes sense. I've read a number of comics where Spiderman has trouble fighting a normal athletic human. Particularly the Tarantula. Someone probably realized, this guy is supposed to have the proportionate strength of a Spider. I saw an illustrated grouping once of various Marvel heroes by physical strength. They had Spiderman grouped with the Thing.

Yeah, whoever the script has winning does win. Batman fought the hulk and others to a stand still in one cross over. Silly. Logically? Batman and Cap couldn't land a finger on Spidey and if they did, it wouldn't hurt him.

rekabdarb:

Gorfias:
Batman and Cap have fought!

Yeah! in DC VS Marvel comics. Captain America lost, but Batman still saved him, because he realized that Cap was lawful good.

Does Batman pull his unconscious body from a waterway? Rings a bell. I recall a thought bubble with one of them thinking they'd never been so evenly matched.

Uhm. anyways Superman can't be 'american' considering he gave up his american citizenship in the comics fairly recently.

It's Superman. He could turn back time and talk the founders into changing the Constitution. I'm sure he'd find a way.

To counter Kyle's argument of Steve Rogers is just a abilities from a vial, not so. Merely his physical abilities. Steve Rogers became the man he is because he wasn't the strongest or the best. He was chosen (at least in the movies) for that reason to become the person he now is.

As the doc says. Because he is a good person. His having been puny and facing insurmountable odds but standing up for right anyway is all pure good, admirable, character.

Superman gets props from me for having all that power, but resisting using it for evil.

Bad movie with Peter Weller once had him propose that Satan got it all wrong. Of course Job remained holy after being cursed. G-d was all an impoverished and crippled Job had left. But if Satan had given Job everything he could ever want, his ego might have gotten the better of him, causing him to become depraved. That's a trap Superman stayed out of.

You do note Superman has lead at times things didn't work out.

Do you recall which side Cap was on in Marvel's Civil War? Was he in the right? I don't recall the answer myself. Just asking.

Watching the video is inconsequential. This is the stupidest debate I have ever seen. It's Captain America. And I'm not saying that because he wears the American flag. I'm saying that because his character has always represented the good of the ideal America. In his very first incarnations, he fought the Nazi's. And not that Hydra BS either, actual Nazi's back in the late 30's and early 40's, when his first comics went to print. He batted on the side of the free during the Marvel Civil War when everyone in the Marvel Universe thought all of them should have to register and become hands of the state.

Wow, Chris was really just itching for an opportunity to press the Laser button on his hoodie.

Such a missed opportunity. It's been known for a while their previously untitled marvel moving in may 2016 was Cap 3, and that it would be going up against Superman/Batman, assuming WB doesn't blink. Had this been taken that into context it may have been more interesting of a topic.

Too much of this is comparing Cap to Superman and not Cap and Superman to what makes a good American Patriot. If you're doing "power" comparisons Sup wins, but what do you expect of someone who's name means Voice of God. As far as power goes Sup fails at being an american because he's too powerful. The "Why did you let X happen?" always hits hard. Cap at least has the valid reason that he can't be everywhere, and doesn't have to power to do everything. Once you have time traveling superman that kinda fails as a reason for not saving everyone.

Superman's not even the better fighter. Sure, Superman would win due to raw power, but that isn't what makes someone a better fighter. Superman is prone to throwing wild hay makers that are one of the worst moves you can do in a fight, but they work for him only due to raw power. When pitted against a foe like Hulk, or Doomsday Sup's lack of fighting skill starts to show.

Cap has unquestionable morals. He's always on the right side even when he's on the unpopular side. He stood against Tony in Civil War from the start. Even when he doesn't have the power he's willing to step up. Superman actually has to let evil happen in his world, and gives much the same reason you'd expect God to give. But God gets the privilege of being beyond human, and if you give Sup that privilege he can't really be a good patriotic american.

Cap vs Shazam or Captain Atom would have made a better argument for who's the better American. Sup, unfortunately, is God on Earth, and has the baggage that come with that when trying to make him out to be a good american.

SilverStuddedSquirre:
Superman was, is, and always remains, the second most boring hero ever created. (Sorry Aquaman, your life sucks)
DC comics are choked with boring assed, over powered gods, and Kal is the biggest offender of them all.

Anyways, didn't both of them Renounce their American citizenship, precisely because of 'Merica! ?

Superman renounced his citizenship of american a few years ago to have a more global perspective and Steve Rogers renounced the mantle of Captain America in response to either Watergate or the Marvel equivalent of Watergate back in the 70's. He took on the name Nomad.

jdarksun:
And, yeah, Spider-man is smarter, stronger, and faster than Captain America. I just don't see Steve Rogers winning that fight.

All of the power stuff is true, but Spider-Man is untrained as a fighter, not an expert in tactics at all, and Cap regularly holds his own against stronger opponents because he is a trained soldier and tactical mastermind. It'd be a close fight, but I think Cap could potentially take it.

There's a good reason the weakest guy in the Avengers on paper is also their leader.

Why do you guys always say Superman blew up Metropolis? He was on the other side of the world when that started, destroying one part of Zod's doomsday (no pun intended) device, then went back to kick Zod's ass and stop him from doing anymore destruction. He wouldn't stop, so Supes had to break his neck.

Vivi22:

jdarksun:
And, yeah, Spider-man is smarter, stronger, and faster than Captain America. I just don't see Steve Rogers winning that fight.

All of the power stuff is true, but Spider-Man is untrained as a fighter, not an expert in tactics at all, and Cap regularly holds his own against stronger opponents because he is a trained soldier and tactical mastermind. It'd be a close fight, but I think Cap could potentially take it.

There's a good reason the weakest guy in the Avengers on paper is also their leader.

Cap has potential, but he's not fast enough to counter the Spider-Sense. Batman has something like triple black belts in 13 or so martial arts, and it didn't do jack for him. Cap can undoubtedly take more punishment than Bats, but he won't land enough shots to do it. I'll grant you that Cap's shield would definitely leave a mark on Spidey, but I'm pretty sure he could tank enough of those to win. Additionally Spider-Man has developed and trained in his OWN martial art, the "Way of the Spider" Which is like Hapkido on Powerthirst. The difference I think is that spidey comes out on top, but in rough shape. He barely broke a sweat Killing Batman.

Adam McClain:
You know what? I'm done watching you guys. Too many times you have eschewed the basis for your show in place of a shameless view grab tactic. Last week's Game of Thrones bit was a real eye opener. Not about THAT series, but about you. You will do anything just to get some extra views. If your show can't compete based on it's own merits and content, without stooping to low brow tactics like stirring up people just for the views, then perhaps your show isn't good enough to survive. For a show that's so desperate for views, can you really afford to lose anymore to these sophomoric shenanigans? When Jim or Yahtzee stir people up, it's because they have SOMETHING to say. You guys do it because you have NOTHING to say.

At any rate, I'm out. You hacks.

Who said we were stooping? We've always been sophomoric!

Frozengale:
Wow, Chris was really just itching for an opportunity to press the Laser button on his hoodie.

Wouldn't you?

Man, I'm digging that Ravens glass. Maybe we could get Ray Lewis to be Cap's VP.

Sorry I wasn't really paying attention. I was too busy polishing my hockey stick.

Adam McClain:
You know what? I'm done watching you guys. Too many times you have eschewed the basis for your show in place of a shameless view grab tactic. Last week's Game of Thrones bit was a real eye opener. Not about THAT series, but about you. You will do anything just to get some extra views. If your show can't compete based on it's own merits and content, without stooping to low brow tactics like stirring up people just for the views, then perhaps your show isn't good enough to survive. For a show that's so desperate for views, can you really afford to lose anymore to these sophomoric shenanigans? When Jim or Yahtzee stir people up, it's because they have SOMETHING to say. You guys do it because you have NOTHING to say.

At any rate, I'm out. You hacks.

Wow somebody's taking this waaaaaay too seriously.

Firefilm:

Frozengale:
Wow, Chris was really just itching for an opportunity to press the Laser button on his hoodie.

Wouldn't you?

Oh indeed I indubitably would

Well, Superman did lead
image

At least Captain America knows what is like to be weak and powerless. Of the two, captain america definitely have more empathy towards american citizen more, also he stands for freedom and justice.

The ONE time superman lose his power in the movie you know what he did? He went and spend his sweet time with his girlfriend. Steve Rogers were weak and powerless and you know what he did? He tried and tried again to sign up to fight the nazies.

bdcjacko:
Superman is stealing jobs from American superheroes.

I love everything about this comment. Seriously that made me laugh more then it should have.

But...Cap WAS president for a time.

Well, Ultimates Cap (whose a bit different than the 616 version) but I think it's still worth noting.

I'm glad to see Captain America winning this one, as I feel he is far and above a better 'American' ideal than Superman.

Cap's real 'superpower' is his character. All of his good villains challenge Captain America on his ideals and morals.

KaZuYa:
What about Wonder Woman? I would of thought the Lasso of Truth would of been the perfect tool in the world of Politics.

No, no... And oh, did I say no yet?

This isn't about who would be best for politics (wherever the hell you got that from I have no clue), it's about who REPRESENTS AMERICA best. It's said like... a minute into the video. They make mention of if they were the president, but that is, quite honestly, all it is. It goes nothing further than that.

Beyond the fact that Wonderwoman is as far removed from being representative of America as possible (aside from the costume) - being from a matriarchal society practically devoid of men and with a basis moreso rooted within older European culture (namely Greek), she just doesn't fit. Besides the "Lasso of Truth" has little use other than serving as both a plot device (when needed), as she is seen using it much more as just another weapon. In fact, they've been inventing more and more uses for the lasso to make up for that fact. They've even moved the "truth" part to Wonder Woman herself, with the lasso serving only as a focus for it.

5:48 He is an ideal. 6:34 Refreshing, isn't it?

Adam McClain said:

"You know what? I'm done watching you guys. Too many times you have eschewed the basis for your show in place of a shameless view grab tactic. Last week's Game of Thrones bit was a real eye opener. Not about THAT series, but about you. You will do anything just to get some extra views. If your show can't compete based on it's own merits and content, without stooping to low brow tactics like stirring up people just for the views, then perhaps your show isn't good enough to survive. For a show that's so desperate for views, can you really afford to lose anymore to these sophomoric shenanigans? When Jim or Yahtzee stir people up, it's because they have SOMETHING to say. You guys do it because you have NOTHING to say.

At any rate, I'm out. You hacks."

What bums me out the most is that if we do an episode based around something topical that we really do care about (I had just finished watching Game of Thrones and was fired up to talk about it), it's assumed we're just doing it to stir up controversy or get attention. I'm not about to knock Jim or Yahtzee because they're awesome, but damn are they lucky that the whole point of their shows is "being topical."

If our lack of a serious discussion is bothering, I would recommend watching one of our more toned-down episodes, such as the Suicide Special or some of the other episodes we have coming up. I can't get too deep into specifics, but we do have some active changes in the works regarding more serious topics mixed in around lighthearted evergreen debates (by which I mean we have a handful actually filmed and waiting to queue up mixed in with what fans generally expect).

Essentially, I'm sorry to see you go but I can understand if our show just doesn't strike you where you'd like it. Thank God for Jim! :)

... why are we having a Cap vs Supes debate, and drinking out of a Spiderman glass, and a Baltimore ravens glass?

Get some Captain America and Superman glassware. Make sure it's clean (I hear that your glasses are filthy) and do the spit take challenge proper like.

P.S. The whole "everything special about you came out of a bottle" thing was BS in avengers, and it still is. Or do we not remember Stanley Tucci's speech in First Avenger?

Gorfias:
Batman and Cap have fought!

There was company crossover too. I think it was a draw between the two. Can't remember the name of the series. Stuff like, Wolverine kick's Lobo's butt happens too. Big red guy trying to settle an argument with a big blue guy.

Superman is a leader for the JLA. He deserves props. I think he has the power, character and experiences to be a better leader than Cap.

Course, depends upon the genre. The movie characters in a heads on: Cap wins big time. Comics: Superman.

Yes the two fought at the end of the so called "Amalgam Era" and the fight was never concluded. The two godlike beings basically looked at all of the creations and decided they were all beautiful and not to bother to go through with the whole "only one world can survive" thing and just ended it. It was less a draw than the duel that was never fully resolved due to the needs of the story.

The lead up to the fight when you had the two universes meeting (without being combined) and they were battling each other's rogues gallery in brief snippits was more amusing. There was a scene of Bane about to snap Cap's back "Knightfall" style only to have Cap's shield richochet and nail him in the back of the head... and stuff like that done to be cute. :)

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