Diablo III vs Path of Excel

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Diablo III vs Path of Excel

I maintain "Path of Excel" is a good joke. Screw you guys.

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I'd rather have "4 different ways of punching people" than "20-copy pastes of "+10 to [STAT]" that exist solely to pad out the skill tree."

I find that's the beauty of the PoE's skill tree though. Your unique skills come from gems, the skill tree is basically a linear progression to your stats to highly specialize your weapons and/or spells.

It'll probably be another 2 before they release a single player offline mode.

Personally, I prefer D3's system to PoE's. In PoE, the Passive skill tree is just padding. The ability gems sound like a cool idea, until you actually see it in practice - You need to get the Gems, and then the Support Gems, and you need to level them, and you need to find gear with the exact socket setup to use your gems. It ends up being so convoluted and annoying that it sucks out any fun from it.

On the other hand, D3's rune system is great. New runes unlock regularly, provide a wide variety of effects, sometimes pretty much turning the skill into something different. You are free to experiment with various setups and find cool combos waaaaay more than in PoE, where you are locked into your choices on the passive tree, while new Gem setups often represent a large resource investment to acquire, as well as an even larger time investment to level them up to useful levels.

Personally i think people saw the Diablo name and failed to realize they were being fed a pretty bad game overall.

I felt this way playing EVE Online. I was going around shooting people with lasers, and people were confused that I didn't spend the majority of my time running a random item production facility.

I can understand the criticism of skill tree padding in PoE. It could certainly be condensed. However, the skill tree has many little deviations the player can choose to take as they level. It's a lot more interesting and varied then what I last saw from Diablo 2.

Jandau:
Personally, I prefer D3's system to PoE's. In PoE, the Passive skill tree is just padding. The ability gems sound like a cool idea, until you actually see it in practice - You need to get the Gems, and then the Support Gems, and you need to level them, and you need to find gear with the exact socket setup to use your gems. It ends up being so convoluted and annoying that it sucks out any fun from it.

On the other hand, D3's rune system is great. New runes unlock regularly, provide a wide variety of effects, sometimes pretty much turning the skill into something different. You are free to experiment with various setups and find cool combos waaaaay more than in PoE, where you are locked into your choices on the passive tree, while new Gem setups often represent a large resource investment to acquire, as well as an even larger time investment to level them up to useful levels.

I get what you are saying, but in my opinion, receiving everything on a platter without having to think about it made the game a reasonably good clickfest, but a much less involving game.

Diablo 3 is on autopilot, which kills the RPG part of the game. Also, at launch, itemization was amateurish to say the least.

I think it is a fluid game, with great animations that carry out the action part, but a poor effort in every other aspect. I agree it is much better now, but if Path of Exile had half the budget Blizzard has... Oh, well, one can dream.

At least POE doesn't charge you for it's garbage.

Jandau:
Personally, I prefer D3's system to PoE's. In PoE, the Passive skill tree is just padding. The ability gems sound like a cool idea, until you actually see it in practice - You need to get the Gems, and then the Support Gems, and you need to level them, and you need to find gear with the exact socket setup to use your gems. It ends up being so convoluted and annoying that it sucks out any fun from it.

On the other hand, D3's rune system is great. New runes unlock regularly, provide a wide variety of effects, sometimes pretty much turning the skill into something different. You are free to experiment with various setups and find cool combos waaaaay more than in PoE, where you are locked into your choices on the passive tree, while new Gem setups often represent a large resource investment to acquire, as well as an even larger time investment to level them up to useful levels.

you are free to experiment but there's usually only one or 2 builds that ever really work. The only really customization comes from your items (witch aren't as unique as in D2). At least path of exile has a lot of customization (even if its fucking complicated).

To be fair though both games are fairly gear dependent. right now i'm playing both of them on and off. But i'm looking forward to grim dawn since it looks like it will be more skill based instead of gear based.

Heh, too bad Blizzard hasn't even been able to fix volume sliders in sound options. Think you can lower annoying repetitive battle sounds and turn up voice volume? FUCK YOU, THINK AGAIN. It's been 2 FUCKING YEARS since release, and those sliders still don't work properly. We are Blizzard, we don't give a fuck.

Blizzard has pretty much cornered the market in their respective niches. The have WoW, they have Starcraft, and they have Diablo. I just find Diablo boring. I also find it ridiculous that the game released in 2012, sold gangbusters, and only now a patch has "fixed" it. I get why people like it, the crusader class looks fun. I just enjoy path of excel more. And yeah, I do think that was a good joke. I knew immediately what he was talking about and laughed quite a bit.

I liken it to the three types of Magic the Gathering players, Timmy, Johnny, and Spike.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr11b

I'm Johnny. Building a character and going through those stats is enjoyable. Mapping it out and finding the right material is fun. It can even be more fun than playing the build. The more I read about stuff like this and encounter player who think in similar ways, I think it's just a right brain/left brain sort of mentality.

In Path of Exile I can create something like this, and that's all the fun I need.

http://youtu.be/KExKt5VKQx4?t=2m30s

Scrumpmonkey:
Personally i think people saw the Diablo name and failed to realize they were being fed a pretty bad game overall.

Eh? Diablo 3 gets and has gotten more hate than Hitler since it released.

Ishal:
Blizzard has pretty much cornered the market in their respective niches. The have WoW, they have Starcraft, and they have Diablo. I just find Diablo boring. I also find it ridiculous that the game released in 2012, sold gangbusters, and only now a patch has "fixed" it. I get why people like it, the crusader class looks fun. I just enjoy path of excel more. And yeah, I do think that was a good joke. I knew immediately what he was talking about and laughed quite a bit.

I liken it to the three types of Magic the Gathering players, Timmy, Johnny, and Spike.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr11b

I'm Johnny. Building a character and going through those stats is enjoyable. Mapping it out and finding the right material is fun. It can even be more fun than playing the build. The more I read about stuff like this and encounter player who think in similar ways, I think it's just a right brain/left brain sort of mentality.

In Path of Exile I can create something like this, and that's all the fun I need.

http://youtu.be/KExKt5VKQx4?t=2m30s

This is a very real and fun mentality. Whenever I hear people say how only a couple of builds are viable for each character type, my first thoughts are 'I bet there's something that's even better, at least for me', and 'I refuse to copy other peoples build guides like a sheep'. The best part about these highly customizable RPGs is designing a character who is ideal for the player and their playstyle, and not just the most ideal character for a game.

Diablo 3 is cathartic, but lacking in substance. Diablo 2 on the other hand managed to hit that sweet spot, where it was simple enough to appeal to players who want to kill thousands of monsters without much thought, but had enough depth to appeal to the 'Johnny' style players in equal measure. That's probably why it has been such an enduring classic.

Now all Grinding Gear Games needs to do is balance its Sphere Grid, cut down on its currency items by removing colored sockets (whose only actual purpose is to, indeed, pad out the currency items), fix the difficulty curve, make the soundtrack somewhat listenable, and get better writers, and Path of Exile will finally be almost worth playing!

In the meantime, I'll be playing the best version of Diablo and it's best clone. Kudos to Diablo III's Loot 2.0 patch, though. Josh Mosqueira's doin' it right.

Hawkeye21:
Heh, too bad Blizzard hasn't even been able to fix volume sliders in sound options. Think you can lower annoying repetitive battle sounds and turn up voice volume? FUCK YOU, THINK AGAIN. It's been 2 FUCKING YEARS since release, and those sliders still don't work properly. We are Blizzard, we don't give a fuck.

World of Warcraft hasn't figured how to separate sound effect volume from voice acting volume in ten years, so I wouldn't hold out hope for D3 any time soon.

As an ex-WoW player that particular minor irritation still sticks in my craw. Why even hire voice actors if any time anyone tries to turn up the volume loud enough to hear said voices they're deafened by a spell effect going off right in their ear?

Kolyarut:

Hawkeye21:
Heh, too bad Blizzard hasn't even been able to fix volume sliders in sound options. Think you can lower annoying repetitive battle sounds and turn up voice volume? FUCK YOU, THINK AGAIN. It's been 2 FUCKING YEARS since release, and those sliders still don't work properly. We are Blizzard, we don't give a fuck.

World of Warcraft hasn't figured how to separate sound effect volume from voice acting volume in ten years, so I wouldn't hold out hope for D3 any time soon.

Well, I never played WoW for more than an hour, so I wouldn't know. But what really grinds my gears is that THERE ARE SEPARATE SLIDERS for voice and sound, and yet they simply don't work >_<

Path of Exile is still a better Diablo game than Diablo 3 ever was. Not that that's saying much.

I wish Torchlight 3 would come out already.

Whatever. I'll just be here playing Torchlight 2, which I've arbitrarily decided is the best one because.

Maybe I should check back with Diablo 3 since I never did finish it.

As bad as PoE is, and as boring as it can be sometimes, I still prefer it to the casualfest that D3 is.

They still have to remove the idiotic Always-online.

THEN, I might try it.

Here's a heretical statement: the auction house in Diablo 3 actually was not a bad idea; it was just badly implemented. The real problem, in my opinion, of the vanilla Diablo 3 economy was that there was no balance of forces between buyer and seller. Blizzard implemented a "tax" on sells in the auction house, but the effect of this was to push prices ever higher because the sellers were not getting as much money as they desired. In fact, some would set the starting bids and buyout prices to account for the 15%. Further, there was no cost to the seller to continuously cycle exorbitantly over-priced items in the auction house, many of which were absolute garbage. Worse yet, the nature of the RNG and itemization meant that there was very little choice for players other than to seek upgrades through the auction house. The end result was complete frustration with a hyper-inflated market flooded with junk goods.

In my opinion, the solution to this problem would have been to eradicate the tax, as well as the 10 items posted limit, and instead impose a 0.5-1.0% upfront fee on the sellers to post items in the auction house. This small percentage would have immediately put downward pressure on prices and eliminated junk items that don't sell. In addition, it would have automatically limited the number of items sellers are able to post on the auction house due to the sellers' limited funds to post auctions. At the same time, the fee, being as small as it is, does not put the seller under such extreme pressure that they are required to bottom-out their prices due to losses from non-sales; instead, the costs of posting items in the auction house could be easily made from normal item farming as well as profits from successful sales. Instantly, the 2 billion gold and $250 items would disappear from the auction house because of the extreme risk of unmitigated losses from non-sales; 0.5-1% of 2 billion gold is 10-20 million gold, which the seller would have to recoup from farming and sales of other items each time the 2 billion gold priced item fails to sell (a similar situation would exist for the RMAH side with $250 priced items that sit nearly indefinitely in the auction house). For items that repeatedly fail to sell, the seller is forced to either lower the price or cease posting the item (creating an instant item sink as the seller will be likely forced to vendor or salvage the item to make space for other items more likely to sell).

Basically, having this small upfront fee could have automatically kept prices in check without lending too much power to the buyer to bottom-out prices and automatically kept the auction house cleared of junk items. I think this would have kept the auction house a viable design component and kept the overall game economy healthy and flowing. In addition, Blizzard would have been free to adjust the health of the economy by moving the fee up or down within the 0.5-1.0% depending on the level of inflation and the level of quality of items in the auction house.

Interestingly, after writing all this, I realize the counter-point to my original thesis, that the auction house was not a bad idea just badly implemented, is that there is a strong possibility the game would still have reduced to "AH simulator" where people are playing the auction house rather than playing the game. Likely that problem, however, is mostly likely a result of Blizzard so strongly tying the drops to the distribution of items in the auction house, forcing players to seek the auction house for upgrades.

Certainly, as the game existed prior to RoS, Diablo 3 was almost entirely a vehicle of pay-to-win micro-transactioning. However, I'm not sure Blizzard's decision to nearly eliminate trade, except for a brief 2 hour period among members of the same party during which they can trade recent drops acquired while they were partied, is entirely the best. Although, I could see the decision for purposes of attempting to destroy the gold seller/farmer black-market.

Never understood how people could love D2 so much and then hate D3 for the auction house. Really? You missed Stone of Jordan-fed trades being spammed on chats? D3 suffered from poor itemization and a bland story (although, again, not much different from D2's story). But one of its problems wasn't a public trading option.

irishda:
Never understood how people could love D2 so much and then hate D3 for the auction house. Really? You missed Stone of Jordan-fed trades being spammed on chats? D3 suffered from poor itemization and a bland story (although, again, not much different from D2's story). But one of its problems wasn't a public trading option.

For me, it wasn't that the AH existed, but their weird new system regarding soul binding. Being able to trade an item after you were done using it meant that items didn't lose their value by being used. Which meant that grabbing a good item didn't result in a loss of value for that item, leading to the easiest method of gaining power was by farming gold to buy the next "tier" of good items.

Farming gold sucks. Items are fun, and they didn't drop quick enough compared to what you could get by going to the AH. That and things like crafting then became a false path, as it wasted your gold; something you wanted to save for actual items. Just a badly designed system.

Jandau:
Personally, I prefer D3's system to PoE's. In PoE, the Passive skill tree is just padding. The ability gems sound like a cool idea, until you actually see it in practice - You need to get the Gems, and then the Support Gems, and you need to level them, and you need to find gear with the exact socket setup to use your gems. It ends up being so convoluted and annoying that it sucks out any fun from it.

On the other hand, D3's rune system is great. New runes unlock regularly, provide a wide variety of effects, sometimes pretty much turning the skill into something different. You are free to experiment with various setups and find cool combos waaaaay more than in PoE, where you are locked into your choices on the passive tree, while new Gem setups often represent a large resource investment to acquire, as well as an even larger time investment to level them up to useful levels.

I think it kinda depends how you play and how 'plugged in' to the community you are. As a filthy casual going into PoE blind, the active gem system worked because I didn't know what I didn't have. So every so often I'd see a gem drop and I'd be thrilled to see it. Gear tends to just be + or - a few numbers, but a new gem could totally change how I played.

If you go in not knowing that you need this gem, that gem, and the other gem to be optimal, the gem system makes for some of the most rewarding drops I've ever seen in an ARPG.

silly man theres no currency in path of communism

I'm with Erin here... I am amused by the amount of animations one can do things. That includes punching people.

Actually, this is true for me because in Skyrim- I was bored with having few to barely any killing blow animations with fists so I downloaded Martial Arts along with The Dance of Death mod. Really made things better for my amusement and if anyone thought that was dull/boring of me.... well, crap. That's just how it is, okay?! Lol.

I'll never understand the argument people make that the passive web in PoE is "padded out." Unless you want to go all D3 on the game and more or less eliminate any choice in what skills you're raising, those "padded out" +10 nodes are a perfect way to let any class spec in any direction, given the right path/spec through the tree. It really all makes sense when you think about what it actually does.

The people that hate d3...most of us, do not hate it for the auction house. I didn't use the stupid auction house...easy fix. What wasn't an easy fix was the borefest that was D3 compared to even vanilla D2 let alone the expansion.

What we (and I specifically) hated, was the lack of customization.

Some people have said you only have a few real choices in Path of Exile. They make that same statement about D2 as well when you compare D3 to it.

That is hogwash.

I played THousands of workable, fun builds in D2, and I have played hundreds of them already in Path of exile. Whole different..and quite fun characters played up from scratch. Never rushed or anything like that...I actually enjoyed playing the game. I didn't use other peoples builds, although I did post my own (I came up with the original hybrid kick/trap assassin build for instance that became quite popular).

In d2 I didn't have any incentive to restart fresh..and I would often take breaks for a year at a time, give all my stuff away, then start fresh again...because it was fun building up my equipment each time (ladder resets helped as well).

In PoE there are races and special events that help give you incentive to start from scratch. They add freaking new skills so often I have not been able to keep up with them (As far as making a character specializing on a skill), and the skill tree gives you a HUGE amount of variety and control. Even for any one general specialization (Say your going for a dual wield claw specialist) there are tons of different ways to build your character. First what defense do you go for? There are 3 choices....or none (or just very high hp and life leach..which you could call one), do you want to go for physical damage or elemental damage, or both. Do you want to include summons or totems...traps...or get a very high shield block (Guess that can count as a defense as well)....and do you want to add dodging/acrobatics...and spell block (ok so more then just 3 choices on the defense department).

All of those choices are made in the skill tree...but you still have to choose which actual gems to use as well (many of those choices will be based on the specs you made in your skill tree).

Then you have support gems, stat specialization, power charges (do you want to go with high crit chance....go with high endurance charges so you take very little damage....or go with frenzy charges for massive attack speed?).

There is also tons of options for equipment...much like d2 (and not like d3). The equipment you wear....actually can drastically change how your character plays. Unique equipment can alter a build drastically.

So yes, PoE...like D2 before it, offers a players nearly unlimited choices on how to play the game.

D3 on the other hand gives you basically a set, linear character to walk through the game. You can tweak it a tiny bit with equipment (amazingly how little difference you really get from eq...other then stronger eq (higher stats) is better...it makes almost no difference. Hopefully that is a bit better now at least), all you have at ALL is the runes you choose to modify your powers (and which powers you actually choose to use). That is it. There is pretty much no choice or reason to even play the game for me.

D3 is a dumbed down version of d2...because for some reason Blizzard figured it was too much effort for a new generation of players to actually create their own characters. The auction house....is available on many games that are/where very fun. Dungeons and dragons online had an auction house for instance...it didn't ruin the game for me for over a decade. Diablo 2 had online sites that sold equipment etc...did that ruin the game for me? Nope, never used them. An auction house in d3..even if it was easier to use...didn't ruin the game for me...because it was already ruined.

Path of exile isn't perfect. There are many things that could be improved on. It's amazing for a free game (And really free..you never have to spend a dime. I have....buying stash tabs a few times...but that is because the game is very worth it and I was happy to contribute...I certainly never had to). I have enjoyed PoE 10000000x more then D3. I wish I could go back in time and NOT buy d3 and send that money to PoE instead, cause that is what I have played.

Is D3 total crap? Nope...in fact, if it had been any other game...not part of the diablo series, I think it would have done fine. It would have probably been listed as a decent D2 clone.....just without as much replay value or pvp. The problem is that it was listed as D3...and it was a massive dissapointment to me. I got over 100 hours into the game and generally any game I spend $60 or so for and play over 100 hours I consider a good game.

I just can't do that for D3 because I was expecting so much more...which isn't fair, but I'm just being honest. I would not have bought the game if I knew what it was in advance. That to me is the definition of a bad game.

So, what's with the Rainman tag at the bottom? Is Elliot or the guy with the glasses the Rain man?

weirdo8977:

you are free to experiment but there's usually only one or 2 builds that ever really work. The only really customization comes from your items (witch aren't as unique as in D2). At least path of exile has a lot of customization (even if its fucking complicated).

That's just the thing, POE's customization isn't complicated at all. Pick the right passive stats for the skills you like to equip the most. The system is just needlessly convoluted just so the devs can say look how hardcore we made the game, now go by the strategy guide.

tehroc:

weirdo8977:

you are free to experiment but there's usually only one or 2 builds that ever really work. The only really customization comes from your items (witch aren't as unique as in D2). At least path of exile has a lot of customization (even if its fucking complicated).

That's just the thing, POE's customization isn't complicated at all. Pick the right passive stats for the skills you like to equip the most. The system is just needlessly convoluted just so the devs can say look how hardcore we made the game, now go by the strategy guide.

ah yess all those Path of Exile Stratagy guids I see on the net. man they must be making ones of Dollars . though it is needlessly convoluted what with ssocket and gem colors being the most anoying thing ever but i still like it all the same.

irishda:
Never understood how people could love D2 so much and then hate D3 for the auction house. Really? You missed Stone of Jordan-fed trades being spammed on chats? D3 suffered from poor itemization and a bland story (although, again, not much different from D2's story). But one of its problems wasn't a public trading option.

Stone of Jordan was used because of how stupid easy it is to farm gold.

Necromancer summon build

/players 8

alt-click everything

hell, it even gets even more ridiculous when you bring in a flesh golem since it heals.

after about twenty or so points in summon skelly-bro and skelly mastery, you only need gear that buffs curses.

of course, this is coming from someone who didn't do the player ran trade depot and just bonewalled everything to make the game more challenging.

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