Zero Punctuation: The Elder Scrolls Online - We Can MMO Too

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The Gentleman:

jehk:

The Gentleman:
I hear ESO is good, but not worth what they are charging for it.

Yeah, you're kinda right. You have to be either a big fan of TES or a big fan of realm vs realm / PvP. I'm both so this game is worth every cent. However, I can see why a lot of people wouldn't be able to get into it.

Honestly, I'm totally cool with ESO filling that niche. So many gamers complain about mass appeal (ie game that don't target a niche) then endlessly complain when something doesn't appeal to them.

I think that's partially because the economics of an MMO (massive production costs and significant ongoing costs) requires a broader appeal so that it can be profitable.

Sure but they don't need to supplant WoW to achieve that.

Thing is when I saw the pandaren back in WC3 I didn't really expect them to come from China. Which is what pandaria reminds me off. Therefore the kung fu panda reference. Man do people get riled up about it. I'm surprised that he didn't mention the atrocious box price and the fact that you need to buy the special edition for one the races or something.

Actually Yahtzee, whenever a new Elder Scrolls game came out, you can always count on a few internet monkeys to say they should make a multiplayer version of the game. It's just that it took about 5 minutes for someone else to explain why this is a terrible idea, and the reasons are pretty close to the criticism you just laid out.

So in fact someone did ask for this. It's just that those very people should never be trusted with what they want.

The thing you need to remember to enjoy this game is not think of it as Skyrim online or another MMO. Try to see it as it's own thing and you's like it better.

What's surprising is I'm not angered by this review. When Yahtzee hates a game I like I prefer he not make it like it's horrible to everyone but make it that it's just not for him and that's understandable. Everyone has their own taste in games.

prpshrt:
Thing is when I saw the pandaren back in WC3 I didn't really expect them to come from China. Which is what pandaria reminds me off. Therefore the kung fu panda reference. Man do people get riled up about it. I'm surprised that he didn't mention the atrocious box price and the fact that you need to buy the special edition for one the races or something.

Wasn't that whole business about Racials? Like I remember being annoyed but it depends on what that race offers, as Imperials aren't much different to their counterparts.

It's pretty bad. It's something i would've played maybe 10 years ago. Right now it's just "everything that has been done" but with a TES-recoloring on the outside.

It does not feel like TES at all. It feels like an MMO. There's basically nothing in the game that made the singleplayer expirience what it was.
And the whole "You're the chosen one - and so is every other bloke" just makes it worse. While some quests/stories are not badly written at all you just can't suspend disbelief if you're surrounded by xXxBigDickxXx and 1337Killer. And good god another MMO that can't do combat right. Not even MMO-like combat.
Seriously so far WoW is still the only MMO that managed to make combat fluid. With the exception of GW2 maybe.

If you want RvR you're probably better of with GW2 - it's a better game in every aspect even storywise. And doesn't charge you 15$ a month.

Mikejames:

Catasros:
Kind of expected this from the moment I heard of Elder Scrolls Online...

Yeah.. There seems to be so little chance of non-WOW MMOs succeeding nowadays that it depresses me when a good developer feels the need to throw their hat into the ring.

The no chance of being successful comes from the sad fact that noone apart from Blizzard seem to be able to do cooperative PvE well. Like, noone. Not a single soul. Even though WoW ran out of kickass interesting mega-villains a long time ago, they are still the best at designing raid encounters with a huge variety of fresh mechanics and then tuning them to a boner-inducing "extremely hard but not unfair" level of difficulty (as anyone who has actually played MoP in a 25 man raiding guild knows).

CrazyGirl17:
I don't get the appeal of MMOs. I dunno, I guess the fact that you're not the one savung the day anymore kinda rubs me the wrong way... (Though if they made a decent Firefly MMO, I admit I'd give it a shot...)

Last i checked, Firefly Online was still on track for release later this year.

Why do so many MMOs try the "lone savior of the world" storyline? Why don't they ever attempt a story that takes into account the fact that 10,000 other dudes are all running around doing what you're trying to do? It's not like they didn't know what kind of game they were designing.

Can I say "Electric Shite Orchestra" is now officially my takeaway from you? That was probably my favorite joke in the entire video, and a picture of a coil on Jeff Lynne's head makes my respect for you go up, up, up because of it? Not because you crapped on them, but because it was funny as hell, and you knew who was in it instead of using the band's logo instead.

OT: I really don't know how to feel about Elder Scrolls Online, it seems like as much a bad idea as any other game getting an MMO, but your response to how people feel about MMOs is exactly how I feel about them, with the slight exception of a Firefly MMO, I really am not big on those types of games.

That being said, I probably know a few people who will play it like an expansion of Skyrim, so there goes that.

I know there is "no wrong way" to play an Elder Scrolls game, but if you aren't a cat guy, you are clearly doing it wrong. Car guys for life.

I really do agree with the "why mmo" for the Elder scrolls franchise. I wanted to play Skyrim with "a" friend not a 1000 random people.
What really broke it for me was when on an early quest I had to do this pillar light beam puzzle as part of the only way that "I" could get the macguffen to defeat the baddie running around and there were about 50 other people stack on top of them spamming away trying to solve it.
As movie bob and other in the comments have said, why mmo?

We get lame MMOs that we don't ask for, and we DON'T get the MMOs we DO ask for. How's that for logic.

SEGA. Stop. Withholding. PSO2. From. Me.

Me and most of my friends would be all the hell over it. We loved PSO1. Stop ignoring the fans! :(

Less than surprised at the reactions coming out. Guess I'll just turn to substance abuse again until the next ES comes out...

A new ZP on my birthday? BEST. PRESENT. EVAR.
From what Yahtzee said it's pretty much how I expected it to be. Elder Scrolls, only not as good.

Uuuuu... Defiance fans joke... That's not funny when you offend both of them. We all know it's just one guy with split personality disorder...

"But don't you see, I did this for you! I had to cut my legs off to make it easier to get the spoons in!"

Can we have this as a T-Shirt slogan? It's a wonderful example of the sort of insane troll logic that seems to pervade real life today.

So another feeble attempt to try and get the money from the WoW cash pot by releasing an MMO that has no business existing.

I'm calling it going free to play within 6 months.

DarkhoIlow:
I know you probably won't be reading this Yahtzee, but Pandaren were in Warcraft 3 (especially Chen Stormstout the main pandaren hero) before Kung Fu Panda was even made so your joke about that part falls rather flat.

Of course there are few that actually know this, but hey..all in good fun right? Right.

however, they were still made as an april fool's joke back then, and the design changed a lot from then into the Modern Pandaren on "mists". And it happened to launch at a time when the iconography was becoming quite popular thanks to the movies, so the criticism still stands.

In any case, IMO, the answer of how long can a game keep putting out expansions was responded far earlier (particularly because vanilla WoW wasn't even a very revolutionary game at the time it launched, it just had A LOT of content). But by most standards, Wow climaxed around burning crusade, and dropped steadily after that. It's no secret, blizzard likes milking all it's cows till nothing has any meaning and all you have is stale udder shaped jerky.

DarkhoIlow:
I know you probably won't be reading this Yahtzee, but Pandaren were in Warcraft 3 (especially Chen Stormstout the main pandaren hero) before Kung Fu Panda was even made so your joke about that part falls rather flat.

Of course there are few that actually know this, but hey..all in good fun right? Right.

Not really, because why did Blizzard introduce the Pandaren AFTER Kung Fu Panda's success? It's not really coincidental.

....I don't know why they made the Elder Scrolls into an MMO. That just seems like a bad idea to begin with, people who liked Skyrim are people who like having their own gameplay experience personalized to them, while people who like MMO's are virtually unfathomable people who want to share their time with other human beings.

I tried an MMO a few times, it was The Old Republic; and while the story was good enough to keep me playing for a while, I always resented seeing other player characters because that usually meant that all the treasure chests were empty and I'd have to wait for the monsters to respawn. And seeing as how Knights of the Old Republic was somewhat similar to the Elder Scrolls in terms of having a single-player focus, I didn't think that anything could actually be gained by adding more people to the experience.

But I think I could enjoy an Elder Scrolls game with online multiplayer, something where you can invite your friends and block anyone that you don't trust to not loot all the treasure while you're fighting an entire dungeon worth of monsters at once. I think the main problem with MMO games is that people are assholes and I don't want to associate with any of them. But hey, I'm just an antisocial nerd who's wasted his life playing video games, so what do I know?

The PvP in ESO is rather good. But the rest is a trainwreck in progress imo.

I don't say this often because I value singleplayer aspects in MMO's as well, but ESO just isn't a real MMO. Due to the phasing mechanics you can't even be sure that grouping up with your friends will work unless you're on the exact same quest stage as those friends. And even then a quest target will often not update simultaneously, requiring you to take turns doing it.

Hell, in my opinion, SW:TOR was and still is far more efficiŽnt and smart about presenting storyline in the MMORPG format. Atleast they came up with solutions to allow for group dialogue and grouping in general (not perfect, but still).

Aside from that, other rookie mistakes like putting most of the loot from dungeons in chests that are FFA and thus often get nabbed by the fastest ninjas, not kicking players who are kicked out of groups out of the dungeon instance (so they can continue to ninja your loot), designing a retarded trading system that's basically an inferior auction house forcing you to join big zerg guilds as a marketplace coupled with inventory management hell because every barrel drops different materials but you have no way to easily sell them.

Not to talk about some of the easiest to exploit dupe bugs ever seen in MMORPG history, that they are also slow to react to.

Yeah, ... color me unimpressed.

Well... I was a big fan of the previous two Elder Scrolls games... and for the life of me I don't understand why anybody would think I'd want to explore their world with a bunch of strangers. I agree with Yahtzee's opening here because I don't see who this game is even aimed at. Was this something that Elder Scrolls fans who aren't me were crying out for?

Wasn't there an episode of Doctor Who called The Kittyspock Alliance?

This is why I stay away from MMO's and lose a tiny bit of respect for an existing brand whenever a new MMO is announced for it. It would be great if someone made a mod for Oblivion or Skyrim that let a party of friends play together, or the next real The Elder Scrolls had optional multi-player. But, I don't want to pay $60, plus $15 a month plus have micro transaction offers shoved down my throat to play a TES game, while some schmuck next to me is doing the same quest and demands to me come with him after we get the rewards even though I want to go off somewhere else.

ImBigBob:
I've never played an MMO before, but even I have to ask why the hell you'd do the whole "destiny" thing when you're not even the only player in the world.

Because modern MMOs have attempted to compete with WoW by focusing far more strongly on the single-player plot aspect, hoping to gain an edge over WoW's almost explicitly autonomous storyline, and evoke the same kind of response people have to a game like Skyrim or KOTOR.

And it fails, because while the same people who play MMOs probably also play KOTOR, if I want to play KOTOR I'm going to go play KOTOR.

I needed an elder scrolls MMO like I need an elder scrolls themed board game, CCG, or match-three facebook game. The fundamental nature of the genre is just completely at odds with the reasons I play Elder Scrolls games in the first place. Nothing against those who do like MMOs, or this MMO in particular (though, frankly, it does a number of things wrong in MMO design that I though developers of MMO games had all figured out ages ago). But yeah, "why MMO" indeed.

I have this strange urge to go out and annex the Sudetenland.

ImBigBob:
I've never played an MMO before, but even I have to ask why the hell you'd do the whole "destiny" thing when you're not even the only player in the world.

See this is where WoW does it right, you're a lackey, you KNOW and are told basically you are a lackey, and you will forever be, a lackey. Doesn't matter what world ending monstrosities you down, for the time you are level 1, to the time you are level infinite, you are the main characters bitches, standing behind them doing all the hard stuff while they soak up the glory. You get your shinies for it and congratulate yourselves in your guild/group world. In the actual story, you're just 'an adventurer'.

And that's how it has to work. Or it's very immersion breaking.

I know its a minor point, but just to set people strait on the Pandarian thing, so they don't make the same faulty argument in the future.

Having an Asian themed panda in Warcraft 3 in no way protects Bizzard from accusations of ripping off Kung Fu Panda. Warcraft 3 came before Kung Fu Panda, so it cant be cant be "inspired" by the movie but Mists of Pandaria came AFTER the movie and doesn't get to shield itself with some made-up gradfather clause.

This is like Warhammer making a WoW clone MMO, then claiming its not try to copy WoW in any way because a bunch of Warhammer books existed before WoW. If X2 comes after Y1, then X2 is capable of copying Y1. The fact that X1 came before Y1 is completely irrelevant.

When I was a lad playing Oblivion and swapping stories with my friends, all I ever heard was 'yeah but it'd be so much better if it was online'. I was treated like a madman for disagreeing. WELL LOOK WHERE WE ARE NOW, DAN!

Well, it turns out an MMO from an IP is different than the single player games in that IP. Who saw that one coming?

Ah yes, the sequel for Torchlight was going to be an MMO. Then the developers dissevered that doing of so was actually really hard...
So they went with two-player co-op instead to work on their net code knowledge.

Can we also talk about the other reasons you shouldn't support the Elder Scrolls MMO? Such as, you know

Banning users who fall victim to exploits, banning users to are given duplicated items without any way to understand they are duplicated, banning users who fall out of the world, making the only way to unsubscribe being to be logged in which you can't do once you're banned.

All that fun stuff that comes along with handing your credit card info to a company that promises to drain it every month.

Daggerfall would have been a far better base for Elder Scrolls Online... you know, once you add a whole overland factor that wasn't really there before. Procedurally generated spawling cities teeming with NPCs (by today's standards it'd look something like taking a walk through a city in Assassin's Creed). So much prime fantasy real-estate that it's actually not too likely you'll trip over 50 other players trying to do the same quest. A lingering potential of virtual-worldly awesome that comes from working for major guilds and buying buildings in the cities. Ect - Daggerfall was a far better start at being a virtual world.

Instead, they went the "Theme Park" route, on the back of an "action MMORPG" mechanic that is really quite floaty, so Elder Scrolls Online is basically Age Of Conan except for two major differences:

    1. Elder Scrolls Online has a fresh coat of Elder Scrolls-like ambiance slathered over everything.

    2. Age of Conan was made by Funcom, a company that had MMORPG-creating experience already, and was actually quite good even though it did have some release-day woes that hung around for a few... years.


So play Age Of Conan, instead. It's better in every way except for the lack of Elder Scrolls-related props to please Elder Scrolls fanboys.

Dammit, again: you could have made Daggerfall Online. The Theme Park approach to MMORPGs is dead, and World of Warcraft is the Cerberus that guards the gate to its underworld.

Sorry, I shouldn't yell at you guys. You probably feel bad enough about that $200M bill you're never going to pay back.

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