Dark Souls 2: Dragons Not Included

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Dark Souls 2: Dragons Not Included

Not pictured: Dragons, darkness, compelling boss design.

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This would probably mean more to me if I'd actually played Dark Souls 2, but I'm guessing this is a in relation to, like Yahtzee said, most of the bosses being dudes in armour.

canadamus_prime:
This would probably mean more to me if I'd actually played Dark Souls 2, but I'm guessing this is a in relation to, like Yahtzee said, most of the bosses being dudes in armour.

No, simpler than that, it's that the Dragonrider boss has no dragon. Pretty stupid, but then I think of him as Smough anyway because of his proximity to Ornstein II.

Branindain:

canadamus_prime:
This would probably mean more to me if I'd actually played Dark Souls 2, but I'm guessing this is a in relation to, like Yahtzee said, most of the bosses being dudes in armour.

No, simpler than that, it's that the Dragonrider boss has no dragon. Pretty stupid, but then I think of him as Smough anyway because of his proximity to Ornstein II.

Oh... right of course. How stupid of me. Well he's also a dude in armour.

Even worse you have two boss battles against this guy, does he bring a dragon the second time? Nope. Just a huge missed opportunity, though as I'm sure others have pointed out he doesn't exactly fit very well on the dragons he's supposed to ride either. He's just a fat dude in armor with easy to avoid attacks. At least the second time does mix it up somewhat by having some different weapons be used, which is more than can be said for the times you fight the Pursuer.

I guess dragons are expensive as later on you get to fight two riders and they don't even get to share a dragon!

Or is it art directors that are expensive... I forget.

Branindain:
It's that the Dragonrider boss has no dragon.

Ultima IX, anyone?

These guys are nitwits! How can you have a tophat without a monocle and moustache?

Honestly, these guys could've easily been regular enemies. They're truly not boss material.

I'm thinking in Dragon Aerie, akin to what Silver Knights were to Anor Londo. Maybe one of them might actually ride a dragon.

kyoodle:
I guess dragons are expensive as later on you get to fight two riders and they don't even get to share a dragon!

Or is it art directors that are expensive... I forget.

Except there are 19,000 dragons not long after that point.

What the hell has the player been doing? WHY IS HE USING INFANTRY SET versus The Dragonrider?!

I thought it was weird too. I figured at half health he might jump on a dragon or something.

It strikes me as one of those old mistranslations that used to be in all the Nintendo games.

Though I guess nothing else seems badly translated, so maybe it's just some quirk.

"I feel asleep!"

it is kinda disappointing that most bosses seem to be filler. the corridor leading to the looking glass knight is much more dangerous than the boss himself, by that time even people who never touched a souls game before should be able to beat him easily(his shield thing is kinda cool but he did it once for me before melting)
and the bosses that hold the great souls are a little underwhelming, the only one that gave me trouble was the sinner and that was mostly because it's one of the places where the old lighting system rears its head and you can't lock onto enemies until you can poke them with your toe.

otakon17:
What the hell has the player been doing? WHY IS HE USING INFANTRY SET versus The Dragonrider?!

Well the Dragonrider was the first boss I killed/ran into in DS2 on my first run, so maybe the same is true for them?

IFS:

otakon17:
What the hell has the player been doing? WHY IS HE USING INFANTRY SET versus The Dragonrider?!

Well the Dragonrider was the first boss I killed/ran into in DS2 on my first run, so maybe the same is true for them?

Highly doubtful, the Infantry/Hollow Infantry set is by far worse than even the starting gear unless you're Deprived. Besides it was a joke, also Dragonrider that early? The Old Knights would have been enough of a deterrent I think since you go from fighting enemies with around 250~HP to 900HP.

otakon17:

IFS:

otakon17:
What the hell has the player been doing? WHY IS HE USING INFANTRY SET versus The Dragonrider?!

Well the Dragonrider was the first boss I killed/ran into in DS2 on my first run, so maybe the same is true for them?

Highly doubtful, the Infantry/Hollow Infantry set is by far worse than even the starting gear unless you're Deprived. Besides it was a joke, also Dragonrider that early? The Old Knights would have been enough of a deterrent I think since you go from fighting enemies with around 250~HP to 900HP.

As a knight starter who used 2h broadsword for a long time (900hp in 8-9 swings), I also went to Heide's tower first and killed The Dragon Rider, then The Old Dragonslayer with the help of some phantoms. The Old Knights are OK except for the hammer wielding one who disappears forever on his first death. Him aside, you can clear the zone without taking a hit just by circling-- not even dodging-- just circling.

I thought The Last Giant was harder than anything in Heide's zone. He took my first life from me!!

OT: This strip isn't moe enough. Needs more Erin. Also, everybody- literally everyone- who's fought that boss has beaten you to the joke. We all said it to ourselves or our viewers before the fight was even over...

otakon17:
Highly doubtful, the Infantry/Hollow Infantry set is by far worse than even the starting gear unless you're Deprived. Besides it was a joke, also Dragonrider that early? The Old Knights would have been enough of a deterrent I think since you go from fighting enemies with around 250~HP to 900HP.

I was a cleric and also fought the Dragonrider first. Knights are weak to Strike damage, so I could 2-hand my starting mace and take out those knights in just a few swings. The Infantry gear is also quite light, so it makes sense in areas like this where stamina is more important than defense.

But yeah, it's weird that the Dragonriders never come with a dragon attached, even though there are plenty of dragons in the game. Actually, you could tack a Dragonrider onto the back of the Guardian Dragon boss without changing anything else and it would be a pretty fun fight.

Robyrt:

otakon17:
Highly doubtful, the Infantry/Hollow Infantry set is by far worse than even the starting gear unless you're Deprived. Besides it was a joke, also Dragonrider that early? The Old Knights would have been enough of a deterrent I think since you go from fighting enemies with around 250~HP to 900HP.

I was a cleric and also fought the Dragonrider first. Knights are weak to Strike damage, so I could 2-hand my starting mace and take out those knights in just a few swings. The Infantry gear is also quite light, so it makes sense in areas like this where stamina is more important than defense.

But yeah, it's weird that the Dragonriders never come with a dragon attached, even though there are plenty of dragons in the game. Actually, you could tack a Dragonrider onto the back of the Guardian Dragon boss without changing anything else and it would be a pretty fun fight.

Why did everyone head there first? By sheer direction focusing you'd think most people would have headed to the Forest of Fallen Giants because it is literally right in front of the Far Fire while the path to the Tower of Flame is kind of hidden for the most part on the far side of Majula.

otakon17:
Why did everyone head there first? By sheer direction focusing you'd think most people would have headed to the Forest of Fallen Giants because it is literally right in front of the Far Fire while the path to the Tower of Flame is kind of hidden for the most part on the far side of Majula.

That's what people who don't understand map design(DS2 designers) would think.

Truth of the matter is that where you come in from, you don't make a U turn back into the Forest of Giants, you keep pushing deeper into Majula and find the big archway that scream "dungeon entrance" so loud it's impossible to resist.

It being Dark Souls, you don't even bat an eyelash to the fact that straight away you're fighting giant knights, and it's not even a dungeon, but ruins of some castle.

otakon17:

Robyrt:

otakon17:
Highly doubtful, the Infantry/Hollow Infantry set is by far worse than even the starting gear unless you're Deprived. Besides it was a joke, also Dragonrider that early? The Old Knights would have been enough of a deterrent I think since you go from fighting enemies with around 250~HP to 900HP.

I was a cleric and also fought the Dragonrider first. Knights are weak to Strike damage, so I could 2-hand my starting mace and take out those knights in just a few swings. The Infantry gear is also quite light, so it makes sense in areas like this where stamina is more important than defense.

But yeah, it's weird that the Dragonriders never come with a dragon attached, even though there are plenty of dragons in the game. Actually, you could tack a Dragonrider onto the back of the Guardian Dragon boss without changing anything else and it would be a pretty fun fight.

Why did everyone head there first? By sheer direction focusing you'd think most people would have headed to the Forest of Fallen Giants because it is literally right in front of the Far Fire while the path to the Tower of Flame is kind of hidden for the most part on the far side of Majula.

When you slap the Heide tower entrance on the right side of Majula along with 90% of the area, it's hard -not- to go there. Turning circles and going left where there's nothing there, it's unlikely. That's the reality of not having a map, people just kind of go places they haven't been yet.

Also, it's not that punishing to go to the tower. Yes, the enemies are tougher, but there's less of them and also way less traversal. It's actually fairly self-contained, and the Warf afterwards is arguably more like the Forest anyway, so no one really loses much for mistakenly making way here.

Both areas eventually lead into the same direction, so you don't lose a whole lot by skipping the Forest or the tower.

Naqel:

otakon17:
Why did everyone head there first? By sheer direction focusing you'd think most people would have headed to the Forest of Fallen Giants because it is literally right in front of the Far Fire while the path to the Tower of Flame is kind of hidden for the most part on the far side of Majula.

That's what people who don't understand map design(DS2 designers) would think.

Truth of the matter is that where you come in from, you don't make a U turn back into the Forest of Giants, you keep pushing deeper into Majula and find the big archway that scream "dungeon entrance" so loud it's impossible to resist.

It being Dark Souls, you don't even bat an eyelash to the fact that straight away you're fighting giant knights, and it's not even a dungeon, but ruins of some castle.

That's pretty much the reason why i didn't gather a single one of the Great Souls in the right order. You blunder into an area and get your face punched through the back of your skull you just go "Huh, that happened". Since it's Dark Souls and you expect it to be hard a few deaths and some hard-to-kill enemies aren't gonna make you turn around in case this really is the right direction. Unless you decide to check the FAQs or the DkS wikia, but i reserve that sort of behavior for NG+ runs.

I think it's more a case of if they pitted new players (the dragon rider is a new player boss) against two opponents simultaneously right off the bat, nobody would like the game. People commonly hate O&S because they find it 'cheap' that you have to fight two bosses at once.

Pitting the player against a dragon AND a dragonrider at the same time would be kind of ridiculous right at the beginning of the game. Some will disagree, but of course some are never satisfied and in their opinion, souls games can never be too hard. In fact, in their opinion nothing is hard. They play with their pinky toe and still beat the game with the Ladle. Without getting hit once. While in the champions covenant new game +99. They're waiting for the DLC that makes you have to WILL your character to move with telepathy. But, sadly, even that will be too easy.

Anyway, it probably also had Lore connotations. I mean, this comic is kind of bad. Its not funny, and it doesn't even poke fun at something that makes sense.

michael87cn:
I think it's more a case of if they pitted new players (the dragon rider is a new player boss) against two opponents simultaneously right off the bat, nobody would like the game. People commonly hate O&S because they find it 'cheap' that you have to fight two bosses at once.

Pitting the player against a dragon AND a dragonrider at the same time would be kind of ridiculous right at the beginning of the game. Some will disagree, but of course some are never satisfied and in their opinion, souls games can never be too hard. In fact, in their opinion nothing is hard. They play with their pinky toe and still beat the game with the Ladle. Without getting hit once. While in the champions covenant new game +99. They're waiting for the DLC that makes you have to WILL your character to move with telepathy. But, sadly, even that will be too easy.

Anyway, it probably also had Lore connotations. I mean, this comic is kind of bad. Its not funny, and it doesn't even poke fun at something that makes sense.

See, you had me right until that last bit. That's just rude and untrue. It -doesn't- make any sense, that's why it's being poked at. You never face a dragonrider with a dragon, the both times you meet them.

Renegade-pizza:
These guys are nitwits! How can you have a tophat without a monocle and moustache?

Don't forget the pipe, slippers and upper-class British accent.

There is actually a picture in the artbook that shows one of these dudes riding a dragon... thing. It's not one of the ones you see later in the game - it looks more like some kind of dinosaur or something. I figure that they ended up taking it out or just not implementing it at some point in development. It would have been kind of cool, though.

Ferisar:

michael87cn:
I think it's more a case of if they pitted new players (the dragon rider is a new player boss) against two opponents simultaneously right off the bat, nobody would like the game. People commonly hate O&S because they find it 'cheap' that you have to fight two bosses at once.

Pitting the player against a dragon AND a dragonrider at the same time would be kind of ridiculous right at the beginning of the game. Some will disagree, but of course some are never satisfied and in their opinion, souls games can never be too hard. In fact, in their opinion nothing is hard. They play with their pinky toe and still beat the game with the Ladle. Without getting hit once. While in the champions covenant new game +99. They're waiting for the DLC that makes you have to WILL your character to move with telepathy. But, sadly, even that will be too easy.

Anyway, it probably also had Lore connotations. I mean, this comic is kind of bad. Its not funny, and it doesn't even poke fun at something that makes sense.

See, you had me right until that last bit. That's just rude and untrue. It -doesn't- make any sense, that's why it's being poked at. You never face a dragonrider with a dragon, the both times you meet them.

Few quotes from the game,
"The Dragonrider faithfully served King Vendrick. Long ago, the dragonriders mounted wyrms, and were feared on the battlefield for their unparallelled strength." -Dragon rider soul

"Halberd of the Dragonriders, King Vendrick's royal guard. A highly versatile weapon that can slash, sweep, and thrust when wielded numbly, and is also imbued with magic.
Demands great skill of its wielder, and thus served to test the worthiness of those who aspire to join the Dragonriders." -Dragonrider halberd

So basically, the dragonriders are/were an order of knights that used to mount wyrms, and wyrms are probably not the dragons that are later in the game, though this is just an assumption. It's based on the assumption of the area being shut off from rest of drangleic before Aldia managed to create the dragons.

Mahorfeus:
There is actually a picture in the artbook that shows one of these dudes riding a dragon... thing. It's not one of the ones you see later in the game - it looks more like some kind of dinosaur or something. I figure that they ended up taking it out or just not implementing it at some point in development. It would have been kind of cool, though.

thanks, i haven't seen the artbook yet, but you confirmed my suspicions on that part.

*ahem*
*Wipes snot from nose with hand*
*adjusts glasses*

Technically they aren't even "dragon" riders. They ride wyrms, which are basically lizard-things.

Anyway, they're more just special warriors who helped found Drangleic. Part of a special group of knights. I love their armor.

Good comic. Got a few good laughs out of me. Are you guys enjoying the game?

My favorite part is that you fight a dragon rider later in the game too and rather than give him, say, a dragon, they just throw in a second, weaker dragon rider to provide backup. Maybe there's a lore thing I'm just not getting, but why not just call them something else. Kinda seems like calling an enemy who exclusively casts fire spells, a lightning mage

teebeeohh:
it is kinda disappointing that most bosses seem to be filler. the corridor leading to the looking glass knight is much more dangerous than the boss himself, by that time even people who never touched a souls game before should be able to beat him easily(his shield thing is kinda cool but he did it once for me before melting)
and the bosses that hold the great souls are a little underwhelming, the only one that gave me trouble was the sinner and that was mostly because it's one of the places where the old lighting system rears its head and you can't lock onto enemies until you can poke them with your toe.

I actually didn't notice The Old Sinner was harder to target because of the lighting, until I heard people talking about it. Most of the bosses just seemed to be the same strategy of, block, strafe around, attacked the back. The Iron Keep boss gave me some trouble but only because I kept accidentally rolling in to lava, haha. The chariot boss was probably my favorite in the game. It was one of the only bosses that felt different and among the very few that you couldn't just tortoise shell your way through.

But as I understand it, ng is mostly a tutorial (more so than other Souls games) and ng+ is a much greater difficulty jump than it was in previous games

.. Yea .. I actually wished that the Dragonriders- you know - actually were riding on dragons or something.

Even if not the first one, why didn't the other 2 later on have a dragon? It feels like a repeated boss which sucks because they could of done some really creative things here. All well... at least adding a hat would of sufficed. Otherwise they're to dull on their own.

I like how people keep harping on this, but the guy lives just across the way from the DragonSLAYER... I mean, duh?

JimB:

Branindain:
It's that the Dragonrider boss has no dragon.

Ultima IX, anyone?

Hey, at least in the cutscenes to Not Ultima IX they rode dragons.

This being Dark Souls, it'd be really, REALLY weird if someone were to actually use dragons as mounts. Dragons are a pretty big deal in Dark Souls. Drakes and wyrms are NOT dragons. Dragons are god-like beings that were ancient since before mankind even existed. You don't ride them.

00slash00:

teebeeohh:
it is kinda disappointing that most bosses seem to be filler. the corridor leading to the looking glass knight is much more dangerous than the boss himself, by that time even people who never touched a souls game before should be able to beat him easily(his shield thing is kinda cool but he did it once for me before melting)
and the bosses that hold the great souls are a little underwhelming, the only one that gave me trouble was the sinner and that was mostly because it's one of the places where the old lighting system rears its head and you can't lock onto enemies until you can poke them with your toe.

I actually didn't notice The Old Sinner was harder to target because of the lighting, until I heard people talking about it. Most of the bosses just seemed to be the same strategy of, block, strafe around, attacked the back. The Iron Keep boss gave me some trouble but only because I kept accidentally rolling in to lava, haha. The chariot boss was probably my favorite in the game. It was one of the only bosses that felt different and among the very few that you couldn't just tortoise shell your way through.

But as I understand it, ng is mostly a tutorial (more so than other Souls games) and ng+ is a much greater difficulty jump than it was in previous games

Blocking has always been a safe and reliable, albeit slow, strategy for Souls games. There are a lot of people who are no good at most action games but still want to get the Souls experience, so they turtle up behind a greatshield with 70+ stability and poke every enemy to death. More power to them! Meanwhile I'm doing exciting things like dodging, parrying and attacking.

Basically, if you are a Souls veteran, you'll want to be on NG+ as fast as possible. All those mysterious blank spots in the world fill up with enemies, the one-note boss fights like Lost Sinner and Flexile Sentry start getting interesting, and the drop rates go back up to the generous numbers they were in DS1.

Yeah, thats one silly named boss(es, there's like 5? of them). I would've even taken a guy in dragon-themed armor or whatever on a horse or something, but they don't even go that far with it.

I mean, the "normal" elite Drangleic knights are guys in giant mastodon helmets, they couldn't at least do that for the Boss elite knight-guards of Drangleic.

Seth Carter:

I mean, the "normal" elite Drangleic knights are guys in giant mastodon helmets, they couldn't at least do that for the Boss elite knight-guards of Drangleic.

I... uh... I don't think those are helmets.

Dun
dun
... dun...

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