Jimquisition: Tomodachi Strife

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Tomodachi Strife

Nintendo has had to apologize for excluding gay people from Tomodachi Life. The exclusion was a shame, but that wasn't the bit that got me. We've got to stop with this attitude that inclusivity is some sort of Herculean effort, some bold statement. Other games have managed to do it without it being so - a company like Nintendo can.

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Let's see gays an accepted part of society, even in video games. I'm heterosexual, but I don't mind one bit if there were gay options in relationship games or any game. I'd play more lesbians if I could.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the "We didn't intend any social commentary" bit of the apology directed at people saying Nintendo is homophobic?

Press: "Nintendo is against homosexuality!"
Nintendo: "We did not intend to say any such thing"

Hopefully, this episode won't lead to any flame wars!

Did Jim just admit to being Bisexual? Explains his love for Commander Shepard now doesn't it...

"Not entirely straight"? Huh, I always assumed the homoerotic stuff was 100% faked for humor. Considering I do the same thing all the time, I never considered Jim was actually anything but straight. Not that it really matters.

The more you know, I suppose :P

More on topic: That game looks really horrifying. The big Mii heads rising out of the sea are going to give me nightmares.

Gah I wanna have sex with Jim's big sexy brain.

You gotta stop being so right all the time, I can only be so erect.

I always treat Nintendo as some sort of autistic kid, they know one thing, do it well and make a mess of anything else.

So how long until someone throws up the whole 'danger of inclusion' argument like what happened with Mass Effect?

"If we allow the Gay Tomadachis, then we have to allow PEDOPHILE Tomadachis as well!" or what not?

Nintendo has always taken the path of least resistance, if it sees someone yelling about something, it will usually try and either avoid or tone down the issue, like the blood in mortal kombat thing, they heard people bitching about the violence, they censored it, then they got yelled at louder so they let all the blood back in mortal kombat 2. They are one of those companies you have to yell at to get them to do anything.

They were trying to be neutral. The problem is there isn't really a neutral side in the matter of representation. In fact, so many people trying to be "neutral" is part of the problem. Discrimination isn't always blatant or cartoonishly evil like those idiots crying out "religious freedom!".

Also, as mentioned above, Nintendo tries to make people not get mad. Get mad at them and they'll get the message.

Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary

Daystar Clarion:

You gotta stop being so right all the time, I can only be so erect.

This is not true and we both know it. All those endless nights in the lab should have taught you otherwise. The upper-limits of your erectile density are incalculable.

And arousing.

So, pretty much what this is saying is that Gay relationships should be in any game with relationships by default now?

I agree. And I feel it should be the standard by now too. Even if I'm not gay myself or even if I am, I might get a bit of enjoyment seeing the main character of a game swing both ways. Really, it only helps make everyone happy, unless they're homophobic, which at that point, they can go shove it.

Inclusion of every party cannot hurt if it's a party that does no harm.

Part of the reason Tomodachi Life didn't intend have gay marriage in the first place was because Japan doesn't accept it as a whole, thank you Gaijin Goomba for pointing that out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50f8mLfTzwQ

Also, as an extra piece to point out, The Sims 4 is actually given an AO (Adult Only) rating in Russia because of the fact that it includes gay marriage:

http://gbatemp.net/threads/russia-gives-the-sims-4-an-adults-only-rating.365855/

I'd say that when it comes to content like this, people have become more intolerant rather than actually being tolerant about stuff like this.

You pointed out about how there's an issue in a state in the US about turning away customers due to the owner having a religuous belief against homosexuality. Well, that's their own fucking right. Owners should have the right to turn away whoever the hell they want. It may not cause their business to do well, but that's the point. America is supposed to be a place where people can say, do, or believe whatever they want and not get attacked for it. We can't force people to believe something because we disagree with them, all we can do is not support the company or the person. The minute we start telling people how their supposed to think, we become no better than Germany and the Nazis in WW2.

EDIT: The original reason gay marriage was patched was because it was part of a game breaking bug.

Fappy:

Daystar Clarion:

You gotta stop being so right all the time, I can only be so erect.

This is not true and we both know it. All those endless nights in the lab should have taught you otherwise. The upper-limits of your erectile density are incalculable.

And arousing.

The world isn't ready for this information, we can't just start throwing my penis about all willy nilly, but if you insist...

I have to wonder if the sales would increase by any significant amount by adding more options for relationships? I understand that is not the point this video is trying to make, but the game concept sounds rather boring to me.

Well at least now we know those sex related jokes weren't entirely fake, thank God for Jim! Oh yes and these ties are looking more and more arous-... attractive as the weeks go by.

And I think I agree, might have to watch over it again to get some vital points and think them over.

Big_Isaac:
Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary

The gay relationships weren't the issue they were patching out, it was one effect of a game-breaking bug that also prevented you from saving your game, among other things.
I agree they should have allowed gay relationships after patching out the bug and their entire handling of the fallout was dismal, but they didn't strictly speaking "patch gay relationships out of the game".

Mr. Omega:
They were trying to be neutral. The problem is there isn't really a neutral side to this. In fact, so many people trying to be "neutral" is part of the problem. Discrimination isn't always blatant or cartoonishly evil.

Actually there is a neutral side... i consider myself to be pretty neutral on the matter as in I outright ignore it. I don't see someone's sexuality as an important aspect, to myself. In other words I couldn't care less if a woman is straight or sapphic unless I was interested in dating them. And if they are the one that's incompatible with me well no skin off my back..I move on. It's a null issue. There is no such thing as a black-person to a blind man. So in terms of sexuality I make myself blind...I just store it away as an interesting little fact about the person in the same way I'd file away the knowledge of an allergy or dislike of certain animals. Which allows me to focus on the 100 others things about the persons around me that are more relevant.

Nintendo if it was neutral would have basically just said it as... 'The patch we made to fix save corruption did what? Hmm, we'll look into that for the next patch"

Shitstorm averted.

the belief that inclusivity is often political

It is not, but going out of their way to support something not traditional would be. And Nintendo is anything but traditional and conservative.
I don't particularly agree with Nintendo on this one, but I can't say I am surprised that they decided to represent marriage and romantic relationships in the most traditional way. Furthermore, Jim says its not political, but if the case was different (if Tomodachi Collection supported same sex marriage), it would not be seen as obvious, but it would be used as an example of open-mindness. In other words, it becomes political either way.

"It doesn't start with gay people standing up and saying, 'I'm gay, deal with it.' That's a response mechanism, that's a response to something. We need to look at the cause and we need to fix that."

*applause* Bravo, sir. That was very nicely put and dovetailed well with how inclusion ought to be a default state. Drives me nuts when apologists whinge about how it didn't occur to them to include x/y/z and shift blame to the marginalized group by characterizing them as troublemakers looking for attention.

SnakeoilSage:
I'm heterosexual, but I don't mind one bit if there were gay options in relationship games or any game.

Yeah, seconded.

Slightly off topic note to Jim - the new background looks great, but your black clothing, particularly the gloves, got lost in the black wing background. Since you tend to gesticulate consider moving the background (dunno about this, and it's sized so well) or not wearing gloves. Just a thought.

Transdude1996:
Part of the reason Tomodachi Life didn't intend have gay marriage in the first place was because Japan doesn't accept it as a whole, thank you Gaijin Goomba for pointing that out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50f8mLfTzwQ

Also, as an extra piece to point out, The Sims 4 is actually given an AO (Adult Only) rating in Russia because of the fact that it includes gay marriage:

http://gbatemp.net/threads/russia-gives-the-sims-4-an-adults-only-rating.365855/

I'd say that when it comes to content like this, people have become more intolerant rather than actually being tolerant about stuff like this.

You pointed out about how there's an issue in a state in the US about turning away customers due to the owner having a religuous belief against homosexuality. Well, that's their own fucking right. Owners should have the right to turn away whoever the hell they want. It may not cause their business to do well, but that's the point. America is supposed to be a place where people can say, do, or believe whatever they want and not get attacked for it. We can't force people to believe something because we disagree with them, all we can do is not support the company or the person. The minute we start telling people how their supposed to think, we become no better than Germany and the Nazis in WW2.

EDIT: The original reason gay marriage was patched was because it was part of a game breaking bug.

Kinda funny really. Nintendo is following their native country's culture? The world is a mono-culture and Nintendo must conform to the world at large! Russia essentially bans Sims 4 because of gay content? Meh.

josh4president:
So how long until someone throws up the whole 'danger of inclusion' argument like what happened with Mass Effect?

"If we allow the Gay Tomadachis, then we have to allow PEDOPHILE Tomadachis as well!" or what not?

That would be if Fox News got involved. Those dipshit asshole associate anything gay with pedophilia. They're the most ignorantly broadcast "news" channel in America.

Big_Isaac:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the "We didn't intend any social commentary" bit of the apology directed at people saying Nintendo is homophobic?

Press: "Nintendo is against homosexuality!"
Nintendo: "We did not intend to say any such thing"

You indeed are incorrect. There were many homosexual gamers who'd found out that they and their partners could not get married in the game or have a relationship with their Mii's. This is a game advertised as "Your friends, Your drama, Your life." The fans created a petition and got the word out asking Nintendo to include same-sex marriages within the game. The part you're quoting was a response to that petition, to the fans asking for the feature. So no, this isn't a to-press statement because Nintendo was getting flack, this is a statement by Nintendo to it's [now probably significantly smaller] fanbase asking for a feature in a game and being told that their lifestyle is nothing more than "social commentary".

josh4president:
So how long until someone throws up the whole 'danger of inclusion' argument like what happened with Mass Effect?

"If we allow the Gay Tomadachis, then we have to allow PEDOPHILE Tomadachis as well!" or what not?

I came in here to present an argument like that.

Where do we draw the line between including something and not including something? The first thing that pops into my head is the people on tumblr who make up their own pronouns to refer to themselves. Do "life" games have to have customization options so that you can be a ship, or a squid, or a fox, or a cup of water, or else they're making a "political statement"?

You can only make so many assets in a game. We can't possibly include everyone and everything people identify as.

Where is the line?

If, for example, they didn't include same-sex marriage because they just didn't have the money to do so, would this still be a big deal?

I don't really know what to think about this episode. I completely agree with every point Jim is making, and Nintendo's response to the whole thing was completely stupid and irresponsable. But there's still quite a bit of misinformation going on here. As someone's said above, the 'gay marriage being patched out' thing wasn't actually gay marriage, it was a game-breaking bug based on misreading the Mii's gender which lead to males getting pregnant. Secondly, yes, in western society it's completely abhorent to say including gay marriage would be classed as 'social commentary' where lots of nations and states accept it and it is legal. But Nintendo, and Tomodachi Life, are Japanese, gay marriage isn't legal there, and if they had included it in the base game, it would certianly count as social commentary there and probably lead to a huge loss in sales for Nintendo.

I don't see any reason to not believe Nintendo when they said recently that trying to add in same-sex relationships now would be prohibitive due to the fact the game's code if built around heterosexuality. So yes, it's wrong that they didn't include same-sex relationships in the first place, and their response to a western audience was stupid, but I don't really see why we should be surprised or be villifying Nintendo so much for not including it in the first place given its original market, and not adding it in ebcause they simply can't.

I'm going to imagine this was done early on because my. fucking. God.

Goddammit Jim. You got the info of the bug wrong, you got the nature of the statement wrong, you got everything fucking wrong.

First off, the bug in question only came about due to a sex glitch within the Mii's during transfer that assigned whatever sex to whatever Mii. Due to this fact the game began to internally conflict and prevented player progression, corrupted save files, crashed the game, and in worst case scenarios actually damaged the 3DS software itself.

The gay coupling players saw in screenshots were not a result of the bug. It was a result of Japanese players dressing up their "female" characters as male character and having them romance each other.

Nature of the full bug at IGN (of all fucking places to get things right.) http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/nintendo-on-gay-marriage-and-tomodachi-life

Secondly this game is about a year old. It came out in early 2013. Early 2013 for a Japanese only audience. You want to know what's illegal in Japan? Gay marriage. Guess what dude, Nintendo is not a political crusader machine. Gay relationships in 2014 is only normal in first world countries like the United States and Great Britain. In many other parts of the world it fucking isn't normal and is often frowned upon, illegal, or met with a death sentence. Japan just happens to be one of those countries. So why would Nintendo- who are not- mind you- a political crusader company by any stretch of the word- implement a system in a game meant only for Japanese players that is illegal in Japan? Seriously. Ask yourself that. Why would they?
Let's also keep in mind as well that by the time Nintendo decided to port this game over to English, the game was well done and over with, the original dev team is off doing other projects, and nobody inside our outside of Japan gave a shit anymore?

Third, the message Nintendo sent to Miiquality wasn't fucking stupid. Did you not watch the video? The man was extremely realistic about the outcome of his video. He even stated that there is a high chance they wouldn't put it in this game, but they would put it in future games. And that's what Nintendo said. They specifically said that if the feedback is positive enough they will put them in future installments to Miiquality.

But that doesn't mean fucking anything. Because once again the whole world revolves around us. Did you even mention the legality of gay marriage in Japan? No. You didn't.
Japan never got a feature that we didn't. Their game doesn't have gay marriage in it and our game doesn't have gay marriage in it.
The only thing stupid here is the willingness-despite having all the evidence right in front of you telling the full story- you still decided to perpetrate the misinformation and misunderstanding that occurred throughout this fucking disaster.

To reiterate:

Nintendo did not patch out the bug because it contained gay marriage. They patched it out because it corrupted saves files, prevented player progression, caused the game to crash, and did actual harm to the 3DS system. This was a result of an error through Mii transfers from the Wii/DS systems where a random sex was designated (or absent) from the Mii's and it confused the games coding and caused it to fail.

Read the link. Read the IGN link. It explains fucking everything.

Zero Serenity:
Did Jim just admit to being Bisexual? Explains his love for Commander Shepard now doesn't it...

Yeah, he's mentioned his sexuality before in some of his written articles, usually he just makes light of it in these videos.

OT: Good video Jim, I agree entirely. I do understand Nintendo's actions given that gay marriage isn't a thing over in Japan but they should have thought more about how it might be interpreted before running off their mouths to Western audiences. In-fact, PR departments all-over gaming really need to up their standards, too often the wrong messages comes out which more established industries don't seem to make.

Transdude1996:
America is supposed to be a place where people can say, do, or believe whatever they want and not get attacked for it.

You are misunderstanding what freedom means. You have the freedom to make choices that are incorrect or even unacceptable in America because of freedom of speech. However, this does not protect you from other people have the freedom to voice criticisms and concerns about what you have done or said. More and more it is becoming culturally unacceptable to discriminate against homosexuals in ways that may not have been questioned publicly 20 years ago. An 'unfortunate' part of living in a nation that allows for as much cultural growth as America is that you need to continue to grow ethically as a person as the nation does or you will be seen as a bigot.

Yeah, the bigger issue isn't that ya can't be gay in Tomodachi life (by the way I found out you can't actually "pick" to be gay, your Miis apparently just end up hooking up automatically with some other Mii.), rather it's that just saying gay people exist and including them in things is still such a taboo.

It's how we get people going around saying: "We don't have any gay people in our country."

As Jim said, including a group of people isn't "catering to them", it's just recognizing that they exist.

I don't think Nintendo did this all out of malice, but they really did pick some terrible words to say.

Zero Serenity:
Did Jim just admit to being Bisexual? Explains his love for Commander Shepard now doesn't it...

Who doesn't love a Shepard or two? xD

Fappy:
"Not entirely straight"? Huh, I always assumed the homoerotic stuff was 100% faked for humor. Considering I do the same thing all the time, I never considered Jim was actually anything but straight. Not that it really matters.

The more you know, I suppose :P

Actually Jim's mentioned this a few times, but like he said, he doesn't play it up much.
Explains why he went with the classification: "Not Straight".

Understandable that ya may have missed or forgotten that though.

It is surprising how many people still don't know Jim has a wife and step-son though. Perhaps that number has decreased after the last expo. xD

:D Thank God for you, Jim!

Daystar Clarion:
Gah I wanna have sex with Jim's big sexy brain.

You gotta stop being so right all the time, I can only be so erect.

:D This may help you with that "problem".
If looking at this doesn't help calm ya down, nothing will. ;p

Big_Isaac:
Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary

It had adverse effects on the game too, actually. Like causing the game to freeze and corrupt your files when using an item and things like that. IIRC Jim didn't mention anything of it either. And apparently, there was never "gay" marriage. It was the Japanese transferring Male Characters from the original DS version of the game over to the 3DS version, which would cause Data Leaks and let you assign a male mii as a female.

Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/nintendo-on-gay-marriage-and-tomodachi-life

Still though, as Jim said, gay coupling in games should be the default by now, and Nintendo is no exception.

Edit: I was beaten, and also they explained it a lot better. Curse people who have more time to bother typing than me.

Oh yes Nintendo is horrible because as a Japanese company, it applies Japanese cultural norms to a game.

Nintendo is of course also "racist" against Muslims, since this game does not allow marriages with little children (as the Prophet with Aisha), or plural marriages (a basic islamic right).

Edit: since some people are incapable of detecting sarcasm even if I use "quotes" to make sure it is obvious: this is sarcasm.

Yeah, The Sims managed to have gays in the game and it not be any sort of big deal since...wow, I don't even remember, it's just kind of always been there. In essence, Nintendo, bite the damn bullet.

Nintendo has now joined the growing list of companies that need to fire their entire PR departments.

erbkaiser:
Oh yes Nintendo is horrible because as a Japanese company, it applies Japanese cultural norms to a game.

The issue is not that Gay marriage was excluded or even that it was patched out. The issue is how Nintendo responded to the backlash against it, which is dangerously close to EA levels of bad.

Thanks for adressing the issue Jim ^_^ Bioware is not a perfect company but at least they have the decency to give optional gay content/storyline that feels real and memorable :P Fernis Romancing a male mage? EPIC! :P
Too bad male Shepard isn't allowed to romance Xenos :P

Damn, people can be so stupid.
Homsezuality can be found across lot's of species.
Homosexuality has always existed.
Homosexuality is natural birthcontrol if you ask me :P
We were accepted throughout history.
But then these books appeared and these zealots took their chances to fullfill their greed for power.
Then they twist and turn that what is written to their own dillusions and bred these religious zealots we have to deal with even 'till this day.
Evolution of our own species is halted because of these books people cling onto with their lives.
And throughout eons it has corrupted the minds of so many sheeple.
I'm lucky to live in the Netherlands.
But there's so many countries where they are committing atrocious holocausts on gay people.
They're being locked up, tortured and even killed for knowing love...

It's really sad to be a part of this species sometimes when you see messages of people killing other people because they love their close ones.

I don't think it MUST BE in every game...
But if it fits the game? If the game is some sim like this? Why the hell not?
Kid seem to be more grown up than adults these days O.o

Hate and fear is not something people are born with.
Hate and fear are a dissease planted into the brains of children, mostly by parents who were once kids themselves...
It's going to take a long time to cleanse the world of these hatreds and fears...
But I think we're well on our way :P
Could go a little quicker though :P

THANK YOU JIM! FOR SPEAKING UP LIKE THIS! ^_^
THANK CHAOS, uhm GOD (is actually the same :P ) FOR YOU!

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