Jimquisition: Tomodachi Strife

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Elyxard:
What some people don't understand is that the reason it's wrong for Tomadachi to not have gay marriages while it being okay for other games to not have it is the fact that you're inserting yourself into Tomadachi as your Mii. It's not a designed character you're playing, it's literally yourself. The Sims would get the same kind of beef for excluding same sex couples.

Especially since there's no direct narrative in Tomadachi; the ease of which it would be to include same sex marriage would be paltry compared to most other games. That's what makes this damning for Nintendo.

And that's partly the problem, NoA doesn't have the authority to make even the slightest changes to the games they localize I would bet. I'm sure they would have loved to have made the change, but they lack the approval and manpower to do so, which is a real shame.

I've always hear this about development in NoA. If it's true then that must suck ass to work for Nintendo here. Never get any input into anything.

I think to actually understand this you have to understand how homosexuality is viewed in Japanese society.
Is it a political issue in the west? Not really, at least anymore. Is it in Japan? Yes.

In Germany you can have a TV commercial with breasts on it that airs any time of the day, even when kids are watching because it just doesn't matter there. But we can't do that in North America. Christ, the movie "rabbit without ears" was originally cleared for FSK 6 (6 year olds can view it) and features full frontal nudity and is essentially a rom com about a guy who has sex with every woman he meets. Conversely, it's illegal in Germany to be able to move dead bodies in video games.

In Japan, homosexuality is still a very repressed thing. They obviously know people are gay, but it's not something you talk about publicly and a lot of homosexuals there are still conforming to their "assigned" gender role and even marrying someone of the opposite sex because that's what they're expected to do.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that different countries are at different levels on issues. if you look at the country Tomadachi Life came from it kind of makes a lot of sense.

BiH-Kira:
Dear Jim, maybe you should inform yourself before making such a video and calling out Nintendo on something that they didn't do.

Big_Isaac:
Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary

No, this is what actually happened.
-Nintendo releases the game without gay marriage at all
-A bug was found when you transferring your Mii and the bug could prevent you from any progress in the game and it could literally damage your 3DS
-the bug was fixed
-a Japanese article about people crossdressing their Mii's as the opposite gender to "emulate" same sex marriage was written
-some incompetent western site mistranslated the bug report and the crossdressing article into one article making it seem like the bug was same sex marriage and Nintendo patched it out (not true, you can still crossdress)
-every other western gaming news site takes that article as 100% true and without any fact checking repost it
-people which actually understanding of Japanese and people who like to check for facts point that out, but obviously people would rather hate Nintendo than read real facts

Sounds like typical American media to me. We're so screwed here.

AdagioBoognish:

Pebkio:

malnin:

At best your solution would result in every character being bisexual which fixes nothing as my gay characters could still marry the opposite gender and my strait characters could marry the same gender. Also adding in homosexuality would require additional checks for not just for gender but orientation in partners.

Yeah, every character would be bisexual in practice. As in, you could any gender you want. The role-playing would then be up to you. The checks would be added for exclusionary reasons.

...and then it suddenly occurred to me to wonder if this game is interactive...
*some checking later*
Well, it's not, it's entirely just... a... um... screensaver? A screensaver with adjustable initial parameters. Okay, I see it now. I was under the assumption that this was a game we were talking about.

Okay... so the designers had two choices:

Add an entirely new input choice and data set that controls which gender your Mii would try to couple with
...or...
Add a hidden value that restricted trigger events between all couplings except for one

Yeah, with those two choices I can see which one was the easier one.

So AI is controlling who your Mii is trying to hook up with? I assumed you were controlling your little avatar, so the whole idea of having checks for orientation didn't make any sense at all. If you're not controlling your character, then does having your sprite get married actually matter to the gamer? This style of game doesn't appeal to me in general, so I don't get it. Are there any Nintendo fans out there that can tell us if having in game relationships is something that would make or break Tomodachi Life for you?

If I'm not mistaken you have no control over who your Mii's partner up with. The only control you have is how you customize them, and what they eat....that's about it.

Everything else is up to game code chance.

Phasmal:

Dragonbums:

I mean- where the fuck were these people when you couldn't have gay marriage in FE:Awakening? Seriously.

To be fair I was pretty sad you couldn't have gay marriage in FE. But I also kind of understand when you consider how the latter part of that game plays out.

Dragonbums:
I'm going to imagine this was done early on because my. fucking. God.

Goddammit Jim. You got the info of the bug wrong, you got the nature of the statement wrong, you got everything fucking wrong.

First off, the bug in question only came about due to a sex glitch within the Mii's during transfer that assigned whatever sex to whatever Mii. Due to this fact the game began to internally conflict and prevented player progression, corrupted save files, crashed the game, and in worst case scenarios actually damaged the 3DS software itself.

The gay coupling players saw in screenshots were not a result of the bug. It was a result of Japanese players dressing up their "female" characters as male character and having them romance each other.

Nature of the full bug at IGN (of all fucking places to get things right.) http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/nintendo-on-gay-marriage-and-tomodachi-life

Secondly this game is about a year old. It came out in early 2013. Early 2013 for a Japanese only audience. You want to know what's illegal in Japan? Gay marriage. Guess what dude, Nintendo is not a political crusader machine. Gay relationships in 2014 is only normal in first world countries like the United States and Great Britain. In many other parts of the world it fucking isn't normal and is often frowned upon, illegal, or met with a death sentence. Japan just happens to be one of those countries. So why would Nintendo- who are not- mind you- a political crusader company by any stretch of the word- implement a system in a game meant only for Japanese players that is illegal in Japan? Seriously. Ask yourself that. Why would they?
Let's also keep in mind as well that by the time Nintendo decided to port this game over to English, the game was well done and over with, the original dev team is off doing other projects, and nobody inside our outside of Japan gave a shit anymore?

Third, the message Nintendo sent to Miiquality wasn't fucking stupid. Did you not watch the video? The man was extremely realistic about the outcome of his video. He even stated that there is a high chance they wouldn't put it in this game, but they would put it in future games. And that's what Nintendo said. They specifically said that if the feedback is positive enough they will put them in future installments to Miiquality.

But that doesn't mean fucking anything. Because once again the whole world revolves around us. Did you even mention the legality of gay marriage in Japan? No. You didn't.
Japan never got a feature that we didn't. Their game doesn't have gay marriage in it and our game doesn't have gay marriage in it.
The only thing stupid here is the willingness-despite having all the evidence right in front of you telling the full story- you still decided to perpetrate the misinformation and misunderstanding that occurred throughout this fucking disaster.

To reiterate:

Nintendo did not patch out the bug because it contained gay marriage. They patched it out because it corrupted saves files, prevented player progression, caused the game to crash, and did actual harm to the 3DS system. This was a result of an error through Mii transfers from the Wii/DS systems where a random sex was designated (or absent) from the Mii's and it confused the games coding and caused it to fail.

Read the link. Read the IGN link. It explains fucking everything.

You sir, have succinctly surmised my feelings on the matter. I rather like Jim's outlooks. At least 70% of the time anyway. The other 30% I feel he is just repeating the same points over again and applying them to a new representation piece. I suppose that is how critics and journalist work. The hell do I really know?

I will add, that from a sociological, or heck, even cultural psychological standpoint, this is a pretty decent example of ethnocentrism at work. Made all the more interesting because 15 years ago, we were little different in our view of homosexuality. Yet now that progress has been made, we judge all cultures by our new found "morals". In the process eliminating their time to grow, and our own chance to aid.

It is much easier to show others the correctness of your cause through application and care, than screaming at them until they relent from exhaustion. Yet, what are we if we do not remind others of what we are, while subsequently demanding they ignore what we were.

I am with you on this one, I would like to believe Jim rushed it to the presses, but.... I truly think he just allowed emotional bias to rule the day.

BiH-Kira:
Dear Jim, maybe you should inform yourself before making such a video and calling out Nintendo on something that they didn't do.

Big_Isaac:
Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary

No, this is what actually happened.
-Nintendo releases the game without gay marriage at all
-A bug was found when you transferring your Mii and the bug could prevent you from any progress in the game and it could literally damage your 3DS
-the bug was fixed
-a Japanese article about people crossdressing their Mii's as the opposite gender to "emulate" same sex marriage was written
-some incompetent western site mistranslated the bug report and the crossdressing article into one article making it seem like the bug was same sex marriage and Nintendo patched it out (not true, you can still crossdress)
-every other western gaming news site takes that article as 100% true and without any fact checking repost it
-people which actually understanding of Japanese and people who like to check for facts point that out, but obviously people would rather hate Nintendo than read real facts

Which doesn't explain Nintendo's comments. If this was all true why didn't they explain all this instead of giving the emptyheaded response we saw?

Inclusion should be the default? Oh boy that's could lead to all kinds of things like marrying kids and animals. I am betting that even Jim draws the line somewhere and then inclusion would not be the default.

maximara:

BiH-Kira:
-snip-

Which doesn't explain Nintendo's comments. If this was all true why didn't they explain all this instead of giving the emptyheaded response we saw?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/nintendo-on-gay-marriage-and-tomodachi-life

We asked Trinen if Nintendo had made any prior effort to clear up this confusion. "I think, at the time, in Japan there actually wasn't confusion," Trinen said. "As it was reported in Japanese, they had an understanding of what the [data corruption] issue was. The other wasn't an issue. It was just a unique way that people were playing the game."

Trinen continued, "At the time, because the game wasn't out here, we hadn't really gotten into the detail on it. And that was primarily because we hadn't announced that we were working on the game."

Also what comments?
Like the comments of not planning the game that way? What about them?
The lack of a statement isn't a statement on it's own. Nintendo didn't include gay couples in the game, that doesn't mean Nintendo says gay people don't exist. We just simply weren't included in that game. Sure, it sucks. I always like role playing a gay character if there is a option. Literally 99% of all my Sims families were gay even when I was small and didn't really understand it myself. But it not being included means nothing. It's not a statement on the contrary.

And lets not completely ignore the circumstances in which the game was created. With gay marriage being illegal in Japan and the game being a Japan only game with no plans of a western release, it's completely logical to not include same sex couples so I don't see how "we didn't plan it that way" is insulting or homophobic in any way at all.

And considering how the game does everything for you and you just customize your Mii and only some small things, adding same sex relationships would require changing the game from the very core and is not financially feasible. Tomodachi 3DS was a test to see how such games will do outside of Japan. Investing tons of money to only test waters, especially when you post a rather big lose is quite a stupid thing to do from a company.

Transdude1996:
The minute we start telling people how their supposed to think, we become no better than Germany and the Nazis in WW2.

So, Emancipation, Civil Rights and desegregation = Hitler?

Stunningly well thought-out argument there.

WeepingAngels:
Inclusion should be the default? Oh boy that's could lead to all kinds of things like marrying kids and animals. I am betting that even Jim draws the line somewhere and then inclusion would not be the default.

False equivalancy for the win! Because being gay is the same as being a pedophile!

Houseman:

Where do we draw the line between including something and not including something? The first thing that pops into my head is the people on tumblr who make up their own pronouns to refer to themselves. Do "life" games have to have customization options so that you can be a ship, or a squid, or a fox, or a cup of water, or else they're making a "political statement"?

That's ridiculous. In the game, you can play as a person. As a person, you have the option of two genders. The game includes marriage. So, no assets would have to be added. We're just talking about the existing in-game options.

If you could play as a squid or a fox, then maybe squid-fox relationships would be an issue in this game.

Houseman:
If, for example, they didn't include same-sex marriage because they just didn't have the money to do so, would this still be a big deal?

Why would it cost more money? It seems it would cost more money to exclude same-sex marriage, as you'd have to write code specifically to prevent same-sex characters from marrying. A computer doesn't have any innate sense of sexuality - to them, all the characters would by default be capable of the same things, unless programmed differently.

Dragonbums:
I'm going to imagine this was done early on because my. fucking. God.

Goddammit Jim. You got the info of the bug wrong, you got the nature of the statement wrong, you got everything fucking wrong.

First off, the bug in question only came about due to a sex glitch within the Mii's during transfer that assigned whatever sex to whatever Mii. Due to this fact the game began to internally conflict and prevented player progression, corrupted save files, crashed the game, and in worst case scenarios actually damaged the 3DS software itself.

The gay coupling players saw in screenshots were not a result of the bug. It was a result of Japanese players dressing up their "female" characters as male character and having them romance each other.

Nature of the full bug at IGN (of all fucking places to get things right.) http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/nintendo-on-gay-marriage-and-tomodachi-life

Secondly this game is about a year old. It came out in early 2013. Early 2013 for a Japanese only audience. You want to know what's illegal in Japan? Gay marriage. Guess what dude, Nintendo is not a political crusader machine. Gay relationships in 2014 is only normal in first world countries like the United States and Great Britain. In many other parts of the world it fucking isn't normal and is often frowned upon, illegal, or met with a death sentence. Japan just happens to be one of those countries. So why would Nintendo- who are not- mind you- a political crusader company by any stretch of the word- implement a system in a game meant only for Japanese players that is illegal in Japan? Seriously. Ask yourself that. Why would they?
Let's also keep in mind as well that by the time Nintendo decided to port this game over to English, the game was well done and over with, the original dev team is off doing other projects, and nobody inside our outside of Japan gave a shit anymore?

Third, the message Nintendo sent to Miiquality wasn't fucking stupid. Did you not watch the video? The man was extremely realistic about the outcome of his video. He even stated that there is a high chance they wouldn't put it in this game, but they would put it in future games. And that's what Nintendo said. They specifically said that if the feedback is positive enough they will put them in future installments to Miiquality.

But that doesn't mean fucking anything. Because once again the whole world revolves around us. Did you even mention the legality of gay marriage in Japan? No. You didn't.
Japan never got a feature that we didn't. Their game doesn't have gay marriage in it and our game doesn't have gay marriage in it.
The only thing stupid here is the willingness-despite having all the evidence right in front of you telling the full story- you still decided to perpetrate the misinformation and misunderstanding that occurred throughout this fucking disaster.

To reiterate:

Nintendo did not patch out the bug because it contained gay marriage. They patched it out because it corrupted saves files, prevented player progression, caused the game to crash, and did actual harm to the 3DS system. This was a result of an error through Mii transfers from the Wii/DS systems where a random sex was designated (or absent) from the Mii's and it confused the games coding and caused it to fail.

Read the link. Read the IGN link. It explains fucking everything.

This needs to be quoted on every page.

OT:

Jim, I thought you learnt your lesson with the the ME3 fiasco. Get your facts right before jumping on the Social commentary bandwagon. I know it's "in" to "criticise" Nintendo about this, but if you want to have even a shred of credibility you've got to do some research.

shrekfan246:

Well, yes, but I think it's jumping the gun a bit to go right to calling them "bigots" because of this. I can't say one way or the other whether Nintendo are bigoted or not, but saying stupid things and handling a sensitive situation in a poor manner doesn't automatically make them so.

Agreed. I don't know what goes on in their collective heads, and they may or may not be bigoted.

bdcjacko:
Look, I'm all for gay marriage is games and real life. Just as long as we don't have gay divorce.

What about gay annulments?

xaszatm:

-Nintendo responds to Miiquality with well-meaning, but idiotic statment
-Several websites pick up on Miiquaity and the earlier article and twist everything around.

Well, not exactly. People who were against "Miiquality" for whatever reason started complaining before Nintendo's response, kicking it up. If not for the people complaining, this would almost certainly have been the same as other requests for gay romances in games like Harvest Moon. They weren't picked up because there wasn't a huge backlash.

Trishbot:

Probably because a huge portion of that game involved reproducing with your loved one with your child inheriting both parents traits. How would you go about it with a gay marriage? Select a surrogate? Magic pregnancies? A Mass Effect Asari body meld?

It's a quirky, whimsical game. homosexual pregnancies sounds whimsical to me....

but they were really awkward, poorly written, poorly animated...

So...it was written by Bioware?

Silentpony:
Well the Japanese are horrifically homophobic, and while I'm at it, sexist, xenophobic, jingoistic and probably racist too.
Is ANYONE surprised by this? Seriously?!

http://www.ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=12795 (PDF link)

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/03/18/national/52-4-of-japanese-say-they-oppose-same-sex-marriage/#.U3ExJihOr-Q

In the former instance, Japan isn't that far behind the US.

In the latter, it's not as rosy a picture in terms of marriage rights, but still not much worse than America 2 years ago. It also shows a sentiment that "sexual minorities" are poorly treated.

Perhaps it's a disservice to call them horrifically homophobic and ask if anyone's surprised. At the very least, it's dismissing a culture that has clearly been changing, even if it hasn't yet.

Mcoffey:
False equivalancy for the win! Because being gay is the same as being a pedophile!

And excluding people simply for who they are is exactly the same as excluding illegal activities, don't you know?

I don't often watch Jim Sterling, but I watched this episode purely due to the subject and I absolutely agree. I particularly agree with the final bit about why certain communities feel the need to be loud about certain subjects. This is something that comes up all the time in reference to a feminist view on the game industry. Feminist views are often loud and in your face when it comes to games because of the all too common decisions that game publishers and developers make. If there wasn't a problem, or at least if it wasn't such a large problem, there wouldn't be such a large outcry about it.

You people crying 'Nintendo is homophobic' do get that Nintendo is a JAPANESE company right? The US HQ doesn't have the power to reverse stuff like this, sides ....

Transdude1996:
Part of the reason Tomodachi Life didn't intend have gay marriage in the first place was because Japan doesn't accept it as a whole, thank you Gaijin Goomba for pointing that out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50f8mLfTzwQ

It's not Nintendo 'fualt' per say, it's how the country on the whole seems to be.

Mcoffey:

WeepingAngels:
Inclusion should be the default? Oh boy that's could lead to all kinds of things like marrying kids and animals. I am betting that even Jim draws the line somewhere and then inclusion would not be the default.

False equivalancy for the win! Because being gay is the same as being a pedophile!

That's not what I said. If inclusion is the default, then there is no end. If you draw the line somewhere, you are no longer making inclusion the default.

Zachary Amaranth:

Mcoffey:
False equivalancy for the win! Because being gay is the same as being a pedophile!

And excluding people simply for who they are is exactly the same as excluding illegal activities, don't you know?

Well if you wanna go that route, then should gay marriage in video games only be allowed in states and countries where it is legal?

Zachary Amaranth:

Jim's said he's bisexual before, so it's not like he just came out or something.

"Bisexual" is such a small and limited term, hardly worthy of the majesty of Jim. How about "gender dismorphic bigenitalian pansexual"?

I've said it before here and I'll say it again.

The same-sex marriage bug in Tomodachi was just that, a bug. Nintendo, being competent and professional developers, went out and squashed that bug. There is nothing more to this story.

Oh what, you wanted them to make that bug into a feature? Okay. I hope you're ready to cough up the money to add the following things to their development cycle:

-QA testing
-Bug reporting on the Bug that is now a feature
-Remodeling the male models (originally the males became pregnant)
-Remaking the logistics of marriage to the game so it understands that neither of two men can become pregnant
-QA Testing for THOSE remade logistics
-Another cycle of bug testing

What you (people slamming Nintendo for this) are saying Nintendo should do is go through another round of development hell just because you're 'offended' that they fixed this bug. When even the few examples of bugs-turned-features like strafe jumping and skiing had years of QA testing to ensure it didn't break the game (and in many cases maps and weapons were re-balanced just because of what many view as a harmless feature).

Two things

1) It is an AWFUL precedent to want to prevent developers from fixing bugs for any reason. We wail and scream every time EA or Ubisoft buries its bugs under mounds of red tape and PR, but we seem completely ignorant to the fact that we're actively encouraging a developer to release bugs to the public without properly testing and adjusting them first.

2) You're also, as a side effect of wanting it patched-in for the NA release, demanding Nintendo split its code base for a single game between an NA release and a JP release. Which if you've ever had to deal with multiple codebases before, is hamstringing future development of the game before it even goes through the rounds of testing required as outlined above.

The computer doesn't care how you feel, it doesn't care if you think it's a bigot or not, it's still a machine that has thousands of hours of labor put behind it in order to function. It's easy to sit on our little walled forum and hurl stones at Nintendo for not investing the man hours to make you, personally, feel satisfied.

This is EXACTLY why Nintendo also released a statement stating that it would be a feature in the sequel. Trying to redo the QA process for what is in actuality a tiny slip-up in the game code MAKES. NO. BUSINESS. SENSE.

Also Jim I'm genuinely amazed you, an industry veteran, thinks that Nintendo meant something deep and meaningful with their statement which was basically "We found a bug and fixed it, we meant nothing ill toward anyone by doing so". It mostly seems like you're nitpicking words and phrases out of context most of the video to try and slam Nintendo on an angle that I'm amazed anyone would find offense at. Me, not really liking Nintendo that much, would have been more than happy with a Nintendo bashing video if we were bashing Nintendo on it's failed business policies or policy regarding the Wii-U instead of bashing it for doing what a competent developer SHOULD DO in order to maintain a stable code base.

I'm sure I'll get more than a few ad-homs thrown at me by people who read the first line of my post and immediately clicked the quote button.

Aardvaarkman:

That's ridiculous. In the game, you can play as a person. As a person, you have the option of two genders.

The people on Tumblr would disagree that there are only two genders.

The game includes marriage. So, no assets would have to be added.

The correct pronouns will have to be used in the text so that there are no grammatical errors, and things have to branch correctly if, as in the existing glitch, a character is supposed to get pregnant. Perhaps they go to an adoption agency instead of have a "pregnancy" event or something, but that adoption agency still has to get made.

Why would it cost more money?

I said "if". I'm presenting a hypothetical.

This is why so many Japanese games never come to America.

Weaver:

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that different countries are at different levels on issues. if you look at the country Tomadachi Life came from it kind of makes a lot of sense.

The point many are making is that is all well and good but the game is being localized. The Sims does it fine in USA and Europe (barring those homophobic pricks in Russia) why couldn't the content be localized?

A lot of other content was localized, some of the mini games were even completely changed amongst numerous other non translation changes to game assets. If they couldn't do it for technical reasons it would sound like a cop out but... hell at least it's a good excuse. If i was Nintendo i would have said "We would love to service gamers with alternative lifestyles but unfortunately we have a finite localization budget and we regrettably think it would be unfeasible to modify some of the game's core systems in the timescale for release" Or something like that. LIE if you have to. Nintendo said a massive stupid thing instead. I actually understand why they didn't do it, it's cowardly but if they think adding it would be a headache for them then that's sadly their decision.

Personally i think this is part of a wider context of Nintendo being completely out of touch with gamers, especially gamers outside of japan, and living in their own little bubble.

You can see my views about this being somewhat over dramatized in the other threads about this. Actually Why don't i just quote myself;

I saw a very long, typically dramatic piece on Polygon calling Nintendo "intolerable Heteronormative Biggots". This is a tad extreme. I think Nintendo is guilty of what it has been guilty of since the turn of the century; lack of effort and complete lack of progression. This is part of their wider refusal to recognize the existence of their massive western audience. It also shows how utterly stuck in time they are. I don't think this is outright flagrant bigotry but they are in the wrong. Nintendo, once again, proves it's self to be living in it's own little bubble 20 years in the past.

Localize your content properly. This isn't some sort of anti-gay crusade it's part laziness, part cowardice. This is modern Nintendo; completely inept at moving forward.

Oddly enough posts here are less soul-crushingly homophobic than the FB comments below the article. Nice to know people who have opinions more varied than "What next? U WANT DUCKSEXMii TOO?!?!" still exist.

Transdude1996:
Also, as an extra piece to point out, The Sims 4 is actually given an AO (Adult Only) rating in Russia because of the fact that it includes gay marriage

Russia has been censured (not to be confused with being censored or being smacked with a censer) by the international community, including the United Nations Human Rights Council for its current discriminatory policies regarding Gays and alternative sexualities. Russia's doesn't really serve as a good example of legitimate behavior regarding fair treatment of gays or other fringe groups.

Transdude1996:
You pointed out about how there's an issue in a state in the US about turning away customers due to the owner having a religious belief against homosexuality. Well, that's their own fucking right. Owners should have the right to turn away whoever the hell they want. It may not cause their business to do well, but that's the point. America is supposed to be a place where people can say, do, or believe whatever they want and not get attacked for it. We can't force people to believe something because we disagree with them, all we can do is not support the company or the person. The minute we start telling people how their supposed to think, we become no better than Germany and the Nazis in WW2.

Discrimination was rather common not only in Germany but worldwide in the 1930s and 1940s. It was common practice storefronts to refuse service against Jews, even here in the US. Also: blacks, Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, pretty much anyone who looked weird, had a funny name or accent, or was followed by vicious rumors.

Discrimination is rampant in an unregulated market, and we've since realized that equal treatment is one of the market rules we have to enforce by law. The notion that we can let storekeepers set the policies they want works only in an environment in which there is perfect competition. (That is to say, there is a superfluous number of competing businesses, some of which do serve any given demographic, and all businesses are instantly accessible to a given customer.) In reality a customer's access to a market is contingent on limits of locality, on obstacles to new start-ups, on closed markets and price fixing, and on a countless number of other anti-competitive practices. So no, people often do not have access to goods and services they want when discrimination is allowed. If Mississippi businesses are allowed to deny service to someone on the grounds that they are gay, I wonder if they are also allowed to deny business to someone on the grounds that they are black or Jewish or a woman. If not, I suspect the laws that protect the latter demographics from discrimination should, by the same intent, protect gays as well...and gamers, and gun enthusiasts, and atheists, and pretty much anyone else who is non-mainstream.

Disclaimer: As someone who is overconscientious of social inequality, I regard Tomodachi Life as being discriminatory for requiring marriage to unlock further parts of the game (such as having children) let alone disallowing same-sex marriage entirely. By requiring marriage, it makes the (ages old) implication that one's legitimacy as a human being is based on whether or not the union of one's parents was authorized and blessed by the society around it. We should not be so judged, nor those who have children out of wedlock. The fact that gay marriage (and interracial marriage before it) has required such an arduous process for our societies to develop acceptance of it (still not completely here in the US), our community, our government and our moral institutions cannot be trusted to fairly adjudicate who should be allowed to love each other and form families, and who should not.

And Because social simulations are complicated, there is no escaping controversy and some elements of societal constraints in such games. The Sims 2 (still the best Sims-series game in my opinion) allows for gay relationships, but gay marriages are still civil unions, representing the separate but equal legal notions of its time. Similarly, Sims 2 only regards exclusive relationships: every sim gets jealous if one of their lovers woohoos with someone else. Sims 2 also doesn't allow polygamy which, although it gets a bad rap from Mormon and Muslim polygyny has shown to be more egalitarian when taken out of the context of misogynistic religious dogma (as per, for example, the Church of All Worlds' polyfidelity). So while it gives players a lot more latitude than Tomadachi Life, it is not representative of a far-future ideal in which people can freely form relationship bonds with whoever they choose.

Mr. Sterling, you live in Mississippi? I'm so sorry. That state is a hotbed of hyperconformity and enforced conservative Baptist values. Have you ever considered moving to either of the coasts?

238U[1]

[1] As of this posting I have not received a US National Security Letter or any classified gag order from an agent of the United States.
This post does not contain an encrypted secret message
Monday, May 12, 2014 1:47:10 PM
soap denim rumor snail opera shopping center guilt fall

First I want to start by saying I support anyone's desire to call out someone for behavior that you find problematic. What I don't support is getting the government involved to enforce your morality on someone by force. Which means while you might not like people discriminating or excluding something you support, they have every right to do so. As a private enterprise you should be able to cater to whichever clientele you want. As an example if someone is abusive you should be able to refuse them service. If a private enterprise wants to exclude some group but the local community doesn't like that then that business might not survive because they will loose customers, but they shouldn't be forced to shut down by government.

The only enterprise which shouldn't be able to discriminate is the government because they are the representatives of all the people and thus should treat all citizens equally. One of the biggest problems that the world is facing right now is governmental over reach. It is regularly used by groups of people to restrict competition.

So please use your voice to challenge those whom you don't agree with, but don't try to get the government involved. One of the prices of freedom is the possibility of being offended and that's a good thing.

Don't need to ask for our permission Jim. I for one am entirely behind you.

Love you much.

Scrumpmonkey:

Weaver:

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that different countries are at different levels on issues. if you look at the country Tomadachi Life came from it kind of makes a lot of sense.

The point many are making is that is all well and good but the game is being localized. The Sims does it fine in USA and Europe (barring those homophobic pricks in Russia) why couldn't the content be localized?

Not him, but I'll just answer your question and shoot down this line of thought people are having.

Localization teams strive for what is known as symmetry between two different types of code bases. What that means is that there exists a copy of a base of code that, while not being equal to the original code base, is at least compatible with each other. Which means it retains all the key features which not changing the value of the code.

Let's take an example, Let's say a Japanese company makes a video game to be localized in America. They make a copy of the code (not even the system code, just the code for the front-end) and assets used for the game, and send it off to the localization firm. Said localization firm only changes what they need to change in order to meet the hardware requirements of the foreign platform and the language requirements. They then package the game and send it to the publisher for retail.

They do this because THEN they don't have to hire DEVELOPMENT TEAMS to change the code and go through development hell on their own. Why? Because it wastes money and time when the game has already undergone thousands of hours of development time making sure it runs stable for someone to come along and add a new feature that requires hundreds hours more of testing to ensure the code is now fully stable with the rest of the code tree. This is even assuming that they have the correct code needed to add that feature in the first place and ensure it's stable vs the original base.

In short, every person saying that a localization team should be the ones to add features are wrong. There is no arguing this, localization is not for development except during cases of game-breaking bugs and oversights and never will be. Even then the original developer is contacted because it is their job to squash bugs and maintain the core game, not the localization team.

End of story.

carnex:
But shame someone just because he didn't enable what is important to you is just as damn bigoted as those who prevent homosexuals from using their services.

Oh yes, being upset about being excluded is JUST THE SAME AS DENIAL OF SERVICE! Anyone who cares about the representation of gays is just as bigoted as the biggest bigot who ever bigoted!

Some of these false equivalence arguments are just astounding. Where do you get your logic from? Oh wait, why was I expecting logic from people who jump to "evil SJW brigade" whenever a discussion of gender or identity comes up?

carnex:
The way you twisted the meaning of the words makes you as bad as any extremist out there.

This video makes Jim literally AS BAD AS THE KU KLUX KLAN. As bad as Islamic Justin Bieber abortion clinic bomber terrorists for bicycle lanes!

It makes me extremely sad to see Nintendo doing this, and I will not be buying the game as a result, unless I hear of them patching the option back into the game (rather than simply promising to include it in 'future' games.) However, it's not entirely unpredictable since the Japanese culture has a very different view on homosexuality than we do. This does not excuse them of course, Nintendo has been making games for a western audience for years, so there's no way they don't know what's going to work for us and what won't, but Jim makes the best point about this in relation to inclusion/exclusion and the political associations we make with it.

For a company that's not doing extraordinarily well, not to mention with E3 just around the corner, it's odd that Nintendo's PR department didn't see this bad press coming and take steps to handle it better. They aren't exactly in a good position to fall from the good graces of their audience.

They just want to sell their game in Russia :)
image

Sheo_Dagana:
It makes me extremely sad to see Nintendo doing this, and I will not be buying the game as a result, unless I hear of them patching the option back into the game (rather than simply promising to include it in 'future' games.) However, it's not entirely unpredictable since the Japanese culture has a very different view on homosexuality than we do. This does not excuse them of course, Nintendo has been making games for a western audience for years, so there's no way they don't know what's going to work for us and what won't, but Jim makes the best point about this in relation to inclusion/exclusion and the political associations we make with it.

For a company that's not doing extraordinarily well, not to mention with E3 just around the corner, it's odd that Nintendo's PR department didn't see this bad press coming and take steps to handle it better. They aren't exactly in a good position to fall from the good graces of their audience.

And congratulations on failing to realize Miiquality's goals! A video that stated in big, bold letters to not boycott the game now will be boycotted, making it that more likely that another game in this series will never see light of day across the states.

Aardvaarkman:
Oh yes, being upset about being excluded is JUST THE SAME AS DENIAL OF SERVICE! Anyone who cares about the representation of gays is just as bigoted as the biggest bigot who ever bigoted!

You didn't consider me! is as bad. It' business the way i see it by being as stupid. I'm born Serbian and therefor I'm limited in great many was, internationally based on whole lot of lies and you don't see me shaming people. And that's real life, not some damn game.

Aardvaarkman:
Some of these false equivalence arguments are just astounding. Where do you get your logic from? Oh wait, why was I expecting logic from people who jump to "evil SJW brigade" whenever a discussion of gender or identity comes up?

This video makes Jim literally AS BAD AS THE KU KLUX KLAN. As bad as abortion clinic bombers or Islamic terrorists!

Well here I really put the shoe in my mouth I give you that. But at least for Islamic bombers I can understand that they are indoctrinated since someone messed much of their world up and continues to do so. While it's not right I can see where they are coming from.

As for where gender identity comes from, we still don't know. Only thing I know that 10% of homo/bisexuals/mixed gender/wrong body sex seems a lot for me if we are to chalk it up to mother nature messing it up in gene copying. What exactly goes on I don't know but I am curious.

Dragonbums:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.849789.20988562

Sorry for the wait, had to take a test, and sorry for not keeping the post in tact.

I will try to address you as best I can in the spoiler.

xaszatm:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.849789.20988534

Should Include you too for the first response. :)

Silentpony:
Well the Japanese are horrifically homophobic, and while I'm at it, sexist, xenophobic, jingoistic and probably racist too.
Is ANYONE surprised by this? Seriously?!
This is the nation that brought us Faye Valentine
I think it would have been more surprising if Nintendo HAD kept the gay marriage part.

I'm sorry, I sort of agree with your points, but how is Faye Valentine in any way offensive?

If anything Cowboy Bebop shows how anime can get female characters right, sometimes.

She is capable, has a well developed character and her entire personality is based around striking out on her own.

This is entirely about her visual design eh? I'll admit it is quite tacky, but that's part of who she is, she is the femme fatale character, just watch any James Bond or Noir film to get why she's designed like that.

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