Jimquisition: Watch Dogs - Five Collector's Editions For One Game? What? F*$%ing WHAT?

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Silly as all of this is, I'm still mesmerized by the gameplay footage from Jim's video. I'll get a GOTY edition when it comes up.

Yopaz:

Demonchaser27:

And as for people, I was already losing a lot of faith anyway, but I've lost almost all of it since the almost unanimous acceptance of Pokemon Bank, not the idea of extra box space (which in all fairness could've fit in the cartridge anyway), but the bribing away (robbing) of the ability to trade old mons' from older versions unless you pay an indefinite fee. Irrespective of how cheap it is, it's the priniciple of it. The fact that they took hostage a feature innate to all previous pokemon games before it, gen trading, and put it behind a paywall and almost everyone accepted it just kind of disgusted me. So I'm not getting any new pokemon games from here on out, unless its for free like I got Y version.

I don't know where you've been since I saw a whole lot of complaints over them charging 5 dollars a year for Pokebank, but sure, let's say it was accepted by most.

Pokebank didn't simply offer more boxes and not having those boxes isn't a big deal anyway. There are currently 719 Pokemon. There are 930 boxes meaning if you have managed to catch all and you for some reason decided to have ever stage of evolution for all the Pokemon that evolves you'd still be left with 211 open spaces to use for breeding. Considering the amount of spaces, the fact that you won't actually need Charmander, Charmeleon and Charizard to take up 3 different spaces you got enough boxes in the core game.

So why does Pokemon Bank even exist? Why would anyone want to close the game just to access a single Pokemon then open the game to use that Pokemon if there's a simpler way? The thing is people wouldn't. There is no reason to use Pokemon Bank if you just play one game. It's there for transferring between games. Now let's look at transferring Pokemon between games. What do I need to transfer my Victini from Pokemon White to White 2. Well, I need another console for starters. Getting one now would mean either a DSi, 3DS or 2DS, the cheapest (new) one (using Amazon.com) is the 2DS which I can get for 110 dollars. That's as much as it would cost me to get 22 years of Pokemon Bank. Clearly they must be ripping me off here!

Then there's the process of transferring Pokemon using Pokemon Bank versus the process of trading individual Pokemon. Have you ever tried trading 100 Pokemon from one DS to another? First you need to get a number of Pokemon you don't want, this used to be accomplished by catching tons of Pidgey and Ratata since they were more common than dirt and easy to catch. This would still take you some time, but regardless of how tedious it was you'd still be able to get all your Pokemon over so it was worth the effort. Then after catching all those 30 Pokemon (you were supposed to get 100+, but you got sick after one Pidgey kept refusing to get caught and you killed it using Hyperbeam) there's the trading.

One at a time. Wathing the same animation over and over. Getting told the same message over and over. Saving the game after each Pokemon has been transferred. Being kind and optimistic here we could estimate that this takes at least 1 minute each time. So after just a few hours you have been able to transfer all err most at least some of your beloved Pokemon. Granted you didn't encounter any connection errors causing the changes to be reverted and made you start the process of booting up, searching for a system and transferring Pokemon over again in the same time consuming process.

So... it did take some time, but at least it only cost you 100 bucks!

What about Pokemon Bank then? How long do you have to spend transferring those 100 Pokemon? About the same amount it would take to move those Pokemon from box 1, 2, 3 and 4 to box 5, 6, 7 and 8 actually. That's somewhere around 5 minutes or so?

So what you're saying here is that 5 minutes of tedious moving and on top of that we have to PAY for it? No way! I'll stick with the 100 dollar method and spend hours. I can't understand how anyone would accept paying such vast amount of money (5 dollars) just to avoid the hours of throwing ultra balls at level 2 Pokemon and then watching an animation that is overly time consuming 100 times.

I really do get what your saying here. But I'm not really arguing the point of trading between two games. That has always needed two games and two 3DS whether its yours or not. I was talking about transferring one generation to the next. as in the pal park thing. That is no longer available anymore without this Pokemon Bank fee. That never required two systems, just two games. which was going to be necessary anyway since you need to actually have trained pokemon from the previous game to have any to transfer to the later game. And if it wasn't in White 2 then I'm certainly not defending that either. However pal park has, if I remember correctly always existed since DS.

And don't get me wrong, as I've suggested in my own example, I would certainly see reason to include an external source to transfer pokemon out so that they can get into another game, just not through a server. The problem is that this pokemon bank requirement isn't about trading between two games, its about monetizing the pal park thing. 3DS is a new generation so you need a way, since the code of the previous games doesn't support direct connection with the new games, to transfer from the DS games to the 3DS games. This was true for GBA to DS as well. The difference? They didn't monetize that venue, hence why I said it was free. They DID monetize this time. Which is why I don't support it. It cost GameFreak virtually nothing to code that PokeTransfer app and it should not have required a server to do it. Make no mistake, as I said they made the choice to require a server, it was never necessary for trading mons from previous gen consoles.

I'm not whiny simply because I refuse to support an unnecessary monetization strategy. As I said before, money doesn't matter. I know well that I could afford it. I'm just not paying full price for every new game +5 every year because they couldn't (wouldn't) come out with a better alternative. Unfortunately, believe it or not, this is how DLC and Microtransactions start. Its a slow movement into convincing the player to spend more. I have very good reason as well as an alternative example of what they could have done. They get plenty of money out of the initial release of the game. There was no need to onset the cost of a server in order try and make more. If you don't mind supporting it, then by all means go ahead, I'm certainly not trying to stop you. I just refuse to. You can call me doom and gloom all you want, but its happened countless times before and I'm not supporting again.

EDIT: I apologize, I meant to respond to your actual previous comment. I must have clicked on the wrong comment. So this is in response to your latest comment.

Demonchaser27:

I really do get what your saying here. But I'm not really arguing the point of trading between two games. That has always needed two games and two 3DS whether its yours or not. I was talking about transferring one generation to the next. as in the pal park thing. That is no longer available anymore without this Pokemon Bank fee. That never required two systems, just two games. which was going to be necessary anyway since you need to actually have trained pokemon from the previous game to have any to transfer to the later game. And if it wasn't in White 2 then I'm certainly not defending that either. However pal park has, if I remember correctly always existed since DS.

Pal Park was only to transfer between generation III and Generation IV. Those are the only games to work like that because those are the only games where you played with a system having two cartridges. There are two exceptions in the need for two systems in the entire history of Pokemon. One using the fact that the DS had a golden opportunity to use both the GBA slot and the DS slot and one utilizing the Pokemon Bank.

And don't get me wrong, as I've suggested in my own example, I would certainly see reason to include an external source to transfer pokemon out so that they can get into another game, just not through a server. The problem is that this pokemon bank requirement isn't about trading between two games, its about monetizing the pal park thing. 3DS is a new generation so you need a way, since the code of the previous games doesn't support direct connection with the new games, to transfer from the DS games to the 3DS games. This was true for GBA to DS as well. The difference? They didn't monetize that venue, hence why I said it was free. They DID monetize this time. Which is why I don't support it. It cost GameFreak virtually nothing to code that PokeTransfer app and it should not have required a server to do it. Make no mistake, as I said they made the choice to require a server, it was never necessary for trading mons from previous gen consoles.

As stated several times, the Pal Park isn't a common feature. They aren't monetizing a feature that has always been free and always been present. They are removing the need for two systems to transfer Pokemon. However you are right, it wasn't necessary for any of the previous games. You just needed wireless, or a link cable and two systems. You needed to do various of things in game to get to the point where you could trade between past generations. You needed to go through hoops to avoid bugs. There's the time machine in Gold/Silver, there's the Pal Park in Diamond/Pearl, there's the Poketransfer in Black/White where you couldn't transfer Pokemon who had learned HM moves. There has been a lot of hassle in the past programming new games to be somewhat compatible with old games. Pokemon Bank will be able to bypass that easily. It will be one way to transfer Pokemon from all kinds of future generations if they actually stick with it. Also as I have already stated for people who don't have any friends nearby it is also a money saving one.

I'm not whiny simply because I refuse to support an unnecessary monetization strategy. As I said before, money doesn't matter. I know well that I could afford it. I'm just not paying full price for every new game +5 every year because they couldn't (wouldn't) come out with a better alternative. Unfortunately, believe it or not, this is how DLC and Microtransactions start. Its a slow movement into convincing the player to spend more. I have very good reason as well as an alternative example of what they could have done. They get plenty of money out of the initial release of the game. There was no need to onset the cost of a server in order try and make more. If you don't mind supporting it, then by all means go ahead, I'm certainly not trying to stop you. I just refuse to. You can call me doom and gloom all you want, but its happened countless times before and I'm not supporting again.

But why pick this as the example that's just on the tip of your tongue? The fact that people would pay 5 dollars a year for a service that makes it a lot easier to transfer Pokemon between games? If their goal was to make vast amounts of money to exploit fans there's one simple thing they could do. Selling Pokemon as microtransactions. They could probably charge 2 dollars for every Pokemon not available to get in the normal game. They could limit the amount of Pokemon possible to catch. They could sell shiny Pokemon.

They could have made a better service and frankly, they could have sold us the service they already have and simply charged 5 dollars for it (which means they wouldn't have had the massive problems that occurred due to overloaded services and our Pokemon could be transferred on the go), but if this is the matter you choose as an example of consumers becoming dumb sheep not caring about what the evil corporations do to us then I have no choice but to say you're overreacting. People buy into worse schemes than this. Companies get away with worse shit than this. I am not trying to convince you Pokemon bank is a brilliant fantastic service and that you should bow down and bless Nintendo and GameFreak for it. I am saying that you shouldn't be overreacting to it because it makes it hard to take you seriously when you do so. Personally it's a service that saves me 105 dollars. I'm sure lots of people are in my boat. Lots of people would accept saving 105 dollars. If you choose to THINK about the matter then this is actually something that has always been a level of a massive extra expense for a great deal of us. I'm not sure if you actually read my past post, but I accused you of taking the exceptions and applying it as the rule. You took personal experience and applied it as the rule. I've had a discussion about homoeopathy that has been pretty much identical to this one when it comes to the points you cherrypick to make your case. It's a thin and very flimsy case since I can dismiss most of your points with knowledge I have gained simply from playing most of the games at some point. I didn't need to Google anything (except the prices of 2DS/3DS/DSi).

Yopaz:

And don't get me wrong, as I've suggested in my own example, I would certainly see reason to include an external source to transfer pokemon out so that they can get into another game, just not through a server. The problem is that this pokemon bank requirement isn't about trading between two games, its about monetizing the pal park thing. 3DS is a new generation so you need a way, since the code of the previous games doesn't support direct connection with the new games, to transfer from the DS games to the 3DS games. This was true for GBA to DS as well. The difference? They didn't monetize that venue, hence why I said it was free. They DID monetize this time. Which is why I don't support it. It cost GameFreak virtually nothing to code that PokeTransfer app and it should not have required a server to do it. Make no mistake, as I said they made the choice to require a server, it was never necessary for trading mons from previous gen consoles.

As stated several times, the Pal Park isn't a common feature. They aren't monetizing a feature that has always been free and always been present. They are removing the need for two systems to transfer Pokemon. However you are right, it wasn't necessary for any of the previous games. You just needed wireless, or a link cable and two systems. You needed to do various of things in game to get to the point where you could trade between past generations. You needed to go through hoops to avoid bugs. There's the time machine in Gold/Silver, there's the Pal Park in Diamond/Pearl, there's the Poketransfer in Black/White where you couldn't transfer Pokemon who had learned HM moves. There has been a lot of hassle in the past programming new games to be somewhat compatible with old games. Pokemon Bank will be able to bypass that easily. It will be one way to transfer Pokemon from all kinds of future generations if they actually stick with it. Also as I have already stated for people who don't have any friends nearby it is also a money saving one.

I'm not whiny simply because I refuse to support an unnecessary monetization strategy. As I said before, money doesn't matter. I know well that I could afford it. I'm just not paying full price for every new game +5 every year because they couldn't (wouldn't) come out with a better alternative. Unfortunately, believe it or not, this is how DLC and Microtransactions start. Its a slow movement into convincing the player to spend more. I have very good reason as well as an alternative example of what they could have done. They get plenty of money out of the initial release of the game. There was no need to onset the cost of a server in order try and make more. If you don't mind supporting it, then by all means go ahead, I'm certainly not trying to stop you. I just refuse to. You can call me doom and gloom all you want, but its happened countless times before and I'm not supporting again.

But why pick this as the example that's just on the tip of your tongue? The fact that people would pay 5 dollars a year for a service that makes it a lot easier to transfer Pokemon between games? If their goal was to make vast amounts of money to exploit fans there's one simple thing they could do. Selling Pokemon as microtransactions. They could probably charge 2 dollars for every Pokemon not available to get in the normal game. They could limit the amount of Pokemon possible to catch. They could sell shiny Pokemon.

They could have made a better service and frankly, they could have sold us the service they already have and simply charged 5 dollars for it (which means they wouldn't have had the massive problems that occurred due to overloaded services and our Pokemon could be transferred on the go), but if this is the matter you choose as an example of consumers becoming dumb sheep not caring about what the evil corporations do to us then I have no choice but to say you're overreacting. People buy into worse schemes than this. Companies get away with worse shit than this. I am not trying to convince you Pokemon bank is a brilliant fantastic service and that you should bow down and bless Nintendo and GameFreak for it. I am saying that you shouldn't be overreacting to it because it makes it hard to take you seriously when you do so. Personally it's a service that saves me 105 dollars. I'm sure lots of people are in my boat. Lots of people would accept saving 105 dollars. If you choose to THINK about the matter then this is actually something that has always been a level of a massive extra expense for a great deal of us. I'm not sure if you actually read my past post, but I accused you of taking the exceptions and applying it as the rule. You took personal experience and applied it as the rule. I've had a discussion about homoeopathy that has been pretty much identical to this one when it comes to the points you cherrypick to make your case. It's a thin and very flimsy case since I can dismiss most of your points with knowledge I have gained simply from playing most of the games at some point. I didn't need to Google anything (except the prices of 2DS/3DS/DSi).

You don't find it weird at all that they would make a service exactly around the time of a first pokemon game on a new gen console? They wouldn't have done this for the purpose of making trading between games easier, because that would have lost them this money you think people have to spend in order to transfer their mons between games. Except they know that two people can just use each other's DS's or 3DS's in order to trade/transfer before. It wasn't guaranteed money. Pokemon Bank is guaranteed money. For people like you who don't have anyone else (I'm not intended to insult you if this is the case) to help you, I'm sure this is great, but for those of us who had it free before (because we had friends who we could just use their DS) its a rip off. That's why they should have given us the free alternative I spoke of.

You can't actually use the service to transfer mons of old games to other old games, only to transfer mons of old games forward to X and Y. That clearly was intended to replace Pal Park. As I said before its not difficult to find a friend with a DS or 3DS, hell you could even use a friend online in another country if you wanted to. If anything with the number of people playing pokemon and the sheer number of DS's and 3DS's sold, I would argue that your example of people not being able to find someone/anyone else with a DS or 3DS would be the exception to the rule.

Don't get me wrong, your right that it's not the atrocity that I'm probably making it out to be, but I don't just magically accept new prices on things just because someone told me to, particularly endless fees. I consider how these things affect me and how I was able to do those things before. I'm still not buying any future Pokemon games. For me this wasn't saving money, it was taking money. And for a lot of others this was probably the case too. And to be honest, I don't differentiate by what's worse and what's not (microtransactions compared to this, for example), if its sleezy I'm calling it out, small or big.

As it seems you and I both have our reasons for our stances so I don't really see this as anything more than an impasse. I do appreciate you discussing it with me though and I can at least see better now a picture of it from someone else's perspective. I'll read any further points you have, but I've said what I have to say on the matter.

PS:

And I meant to touch on this before and forgot, but I actually don't appreciate that they make two versions required in order to get all the mons, yes that is a cash grab. I've gotten into that debate before a long time ago, just not here. I would love if they changed it so that all pokemon were in just one game each time, however I doubt they will. And I can at least get by that by not having to buy both versions because there are others I can go to, or find on reddit whom I can trade with. This costs neither of us any extra money to do also. Especially now with the awesome Wonder Trade thing its gotten loads easier to pair up for some new pokemon, although overtime I imagine it will lose its utility since its just random chance.

The Pokemon Bank thing was just the most recent icing on the cake of my already large aggravation with pokemon. I don't want to really get into it, but their world and level design as well as plot progression choices (as in you don't get any choices about where to go, i.e. hand holding) have turned into garbage over the years, IMO. That and they refuse to make another game as large as Silver/Gold/Crystal (excluding the remake because they were forced to, otherwise fans would be pissed).

Well said as usual Jim. Thing is, I've been fairly interested in the game ever since it was announced, and after each trade show demo I only got more and more interested. It had just about everything to really be something that is totally in my wheelhouse: an action-RPG type thing with hacking, stealthing, shooting, driving, and a detailed, dense open world set IN a city that I've actually been to, and enjoyed my time in? Oh, and it has really goddamn awesome music by an amazing composer(Brian Reitzell, seriously, look him up, his stuff is groovy), AND the fact that when it was announced, instead of some over-dramatic pre-rendered trailer composed exclusively of cinematics, it was an actual, honest-to-Jim slice of actual gameplay? Holy shit I couldn't have more investment if I tried! But then the scandals started piling up. The delay, the marketing, the bullshots, the nebulous performance, the massive pizza-pie of sliced-up and segregated DLC and collector's edition features, some of which are region-locked(WHY CAN'T WE HAVE NICE THINGS IN THE STATES, UBISOFT? WHAT IS IT WITH YOU CUTTING OUT COLLECTOR'S EDITION CONTENT AND MAKING IT EXCLUSIVE TO EVERYWHERE BUT HERE? YOU DO THIS EVERY FUCKING TIME AND IT'S ANNOYING AS FUCK. I wanted that Sam Fisher statue from Conviction, it was cool...), I'm really on the fence about this game now.

I have every reason to love it, and every reason to hate it. Do I go get the funbox, but contribute to the bullshit culture surrounding the funbox market? Or do I stay away, even though I've been interested as hell since its announcement and have only been more intrigued with every demo? I gotta admit, I have no idea what I want to do with this one now. I wanted it to succeed back in 2012 and 2013, especially since it's a brand-new IP and all, but not like this. These scandals are a betrayal to whatever awesome stuff the game is bringing to the table, and it's bringing a lot to bear. The gameplay looks fun as hell, the world, even in lower settings is really detailed(though barren on last-gen systems), the music... oh godf the music... it hit all the right sweet spots... the arcadey driving that was lifted straight out of Driver: San Francisco(exactly what I'd love to see in the whole "GTA clone" aspect of the game, since GTA had cars that drove like they were all heavy earth-moving equipment), you could drive in first-person view IN A THIRD-PERSON ACTION GAME(woo!), the cars were even loot chests, the models looked gorgeous, the effects look beautiful, and I even found a couple characters to be fairly charming (Jordi especially, his banter with Aiden reminds me of my conversations with my brother). THEY HAD IT ALL RIGHT. THEY WERE GOOD. THEY WERE FUCKING GOLDEN. But then, the bullshit really started. And now, I'm not so sure I want to build a computer just to play it anymore. And that is where I'm really, truly disappointed in all of this. The bullshots, massive collection of collector's editions, all of the sliced-out and divided DLC and physical content, all of it has lead me to greater disappointment than if they'd just turned out a decent, if middling game all those months ago. No wonder I don't preorder anymore.

Demonchaser27:

You don't find it weird at all that they would make a service exactly around the time of a first pokemon game on a new gen console? They wouldn't have done this for the purpose of making trading between games easier, because that would have lost them this money you think people have to spend in order to transfer their mons between games. Except they know that two people can just use each other's DS's or 3DS's in order to trade/transfer before. It wasn't guaranteed money. Pokemon Bank is guaranteed money. For people like you who don't have anyone else (I'm not intended to insult you if this is the case) to help you, I'm sure this is great, but for those of us who had it free before (because we had friends who we could just use their DS) its a rip off. That's why they should have given us the free alternative I spoke of.

Let me stop you there. Is this an opportunity that is there for everyone? Does EVERYONE have a friend nearby that would help him/her to trade Pokemon? If I were to tell you that the answer for this was no, would you refuse to believe that? Would you refuse to believe that not EVERYONE in the world has a friend who own a 3DS and would let them borrow it? It's 5 dollars. Easily saved me money at least considering I would have to hop on the train and sit there for 7 hours just to borrow my sister's DS to do unless I cave and buy a new DS (which would actually cost less than the train ride).

You can't actually use the service to transfer mons of old games to other old games, only to transfer mons of old games forward to X and Y. That clearly was intended to replace Pal Park. As I said before its not difficult to find a friend with a DS or 3DS, hell you could even use a friend online in another country if you wanted to. If anything with the number of people playing pokemon and the sheer number of DS's and 3DS's sold, I would argue that your example of people not being able to find someone/anyone else with a DS or 3DS would be the exception to the rule.

It's not difficult. For YOU to find a friend who's got a DS/3DS. Stop applying your own experiences like that to the entire world. As earlier stated I have to travel 7 hours. I don't have the time to do that. I don't have the money to do that. I can't do that whenever I want. Do you see the problem here? As I stated, I know someone who claims homeopathy works. This person is fully aware of that every trial that has shown possible improvement compared to placebo is false, but she still believes it. You will continue to maintain the stance that your personal experience is applicable to everyone so why should I even bother to discuss this any further?

However you keep insisting that this is a replacement of Pal Park and I want to question that as the last thing. How is this a replacement of Pal Park? Pal Park was only present in one game and only because this was the only game where the opportunity was there. A GBA cartridge and a DS cartridge on the same system. The unique opportunity to have 2 cartridges at the same time. That's the only reason it could be done. That is why it's not present in Black/White. You know what Black/White have? They have Poke Transfer. It's pretty much the same as Pal Park except you need two separate systems. Yes, you need 2 DSes to transfer ONE WAY ONLY from past generations to a future generation. This is the system they are replacing, not Pal Park. Pal Park was replaced by Poke transfer a long time ago. Pal Park is the exception, stop trying to say otherwise. I might be wrong here so if I am, next post either disregard this completely or show me exactly how you can transfer Pokemon from one generation to another using only one console in the other generations.

Don't get me wrong, your right that it's not the atrocity that I'm probably making it out to be, but I don't just magically accept new prices on things just because someone told me to, particularly endless fees. I consider how these things affect me and how I was able to do those things before. I'm still not buying any future Pokemon games. For me this wasn't saving money, it was taking money. And for a lot of others this was probably the case too. And to be honest, I don't differentiate by what's worse and what's not (microtransactions compared to this, for example), if its sleezy I'm calling it out, small or big.

Fair enough, people won't take you seriously if you do, but fair enough. However one question you seem to be dodging in all of your posts.

Why is this the example on the tip of your tongue when there are so many worse ones to pick from?

Please make an effort to explain this because I am genuinely curious. It's kinda like asking why people aren't complaining about the light drizzle when they have just survived a terrible hurricane.

As it seems you and I both have our reasons for our stances so I don't really see this as anything more than an impasse. I do appreciate you discussing it with me though and I can at least see better now a picture of it from someone else's perspective. I'll read any further points you have, but I've said what I have to say on the matter.

I wouldn't call what you have voiced reasons. All you've done is cried about Pal Park and refused any explanation of why Pal Park isn't in X/Y and ignored the fact that it's not present in R/B/Y/G/S/C/R/S/E/FR/LG/HG/SS/B/W/B2/W2, but if you want to call that reasons. Go ahead.

And I meant to touch on this before and forgot, but I actually don't appreciate that they make two versions required in order to get all the mons, yes that is a cash grab. I've gotten into that debate before a long time ago, just not here. I would love if they changed it so that all pokemon were in just one game each time, however I doubt they will. And I can at least get by that by not having to buy both versions because there are others I can go to, or find on reddit whom I can trade with. This costs neither of us any extra money to do also. Especially now with the awesome Wonder Trade thing its gotten loads easier to pair up for some new pokemon, although overtime I imagine it will lose its utility since its just random chance.

Yes, this have been progress. Why don't you whine about the fact that this feature wasn't there in Red or Blue?

The Pokemon Bank thing was just the most recent icing on the cake of my already large aggravation with pokemon. I don't want to really get into it, but their world and level design as well as plot progression choices (as in you don't get any choices about where to go, i.e. hand holding) have turned into garbage over the years, IMO. That and they refuse to make another game as large as Silver/Gold/Crystal (excluding the remake because they were forced to, otherwise fans would be pissed).

So what you're saying is that Pokemon Bank isn't the reason you quit the series. It's just the last straw. You are arguing at length about how Pokemon Bank is an awful cash grab while what you're really saying is that in coalition with your pre-existing ire Pokemon Bank just tipped you over the edge? That's something else entire from saying that Pokemon Bank is so horrible that it made you abandon the series. Then it's clear to me that people who don't share this ire would also be likely to accept Pokemon Bank which to all of us is time saving and to some of us money saving, but I doubt you'll ever see reason on this. You have shown no ability to do so before, you have shown no ability to accept evidence that contradicts you so I am sure you'll keep being blinded by your own opinions regardless of what I can tell you. Hate Pokemon all you want. Hate consumers for being stupid all you want. Just don't be surprised if you get called out on your opinions when you're wrong.

Azaraxzealot:
No one knows just how hyped I was for this game when I first saw it at the surprise reveal all those years back. Now? After all this bullshit and delays? I give up. Great job Ubisoft, you took something that was supposed to bring joy into people's lives and turned it into yet more reasons to just stick with cynicism and never try to be happy...

I'm depressed now, and not just because I've been in the hospital...

It does now seem like a past life when we first heard of this game and it heralded as some shining beacon of originality, reading to cure all cases of franchise fatigue and such like in one go.

Hopefully, despite all this, the game will still be good, even if no one person is going to get all the content (unless they own both an XB1 and PS4 and buy all 5 versions). I'll just have to try to not let obligatory Uplay prompt ruin it. That, and hoping Ubisoft don't do an Assassin's Creed on us and start giving us yearly Watch Dogs installments.

Bullshit, this makes me loose any bit of interest I had left for WD. Ah Ubisoft, screwing over customers for quiet a while now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/134755-GameStop-Watch-Dogs-Breaks-Record-for-Most-Next-Gen-Preorders

This is why they keep doing this kind of shit. Because other people can't keep their god damn wallets closed. Or they're idiots. Most likely both.

I'm not entirely sure why I should get so excited about yet another Grand Theft Auto 3 clone anyway. Maybe Ubisoft feels the same way, "People are excited to buy Grand Theft Auto 3, again?! What else can we get them to buy?" Oh, but wait, Watch Dogs isn't Grand Theft Auto 3, it's Grand Theft Auto 3 with hacking and it's made by a AAA studio that's probably better at making games than RockStar is. Sure, that changes everything, right? Right?

Aaaand there goes my hype for this game. I usually don't like waiting for GOTY editions, as I want to play a game I'm excited for as soon as possible, but this is just ridiculous. That and Ubisoft games being hit and miss on PC (Far Cry 3 crashing is still a problem) have gone to actually make me wait for the complete edition next year. Way go go games industry.

Yopaz:

Demonchaser27:

You don't find it weird at all that they would make a service exactly around the time of a first pokemon game on a new gen console? They wouldn't have done this for the purpose of making trading between games easier, because that would have lost them this money you think people have to spend in order to transfer their mons between games. Except they know that two people can just use each other's DS's or 3DS's in order to trade/transfer before. It wasn't guaranteed money. Pokemon Bank is guaranteed money. For people like you who don't have anyone else (I'm not intended to insult you if this is the case) to help you, I'm sure this is great, but for those of us who had it free before (because we had friends who we could just use their DS) its a rip off. That's why they should have given us the free alternative I spoke of.

Let me stop you there. Is this an opportunity that is there for everyone? Does EVERYONE have a friend nearby that would help him/her to trade Pokemon? If I were to tell you that the answer for this was no, would you refuse to believe that? Would you refuse to believe that not EVERYONE in the world has a friend who own a 3DS and would let them borrow it? It's 5 dollars. Easily saved me money at least considering I would have to hop on the train and sit there for 7 hours just to borrow my sister's DS to do unless I cave and buy a new DS (which would actually cost less than the train ride).

You can't actually use the service to transfer mons of old games to other old games, only to transfer mons of old games forward to X and Y. That clearly was intended to replace Pal Park. As I said before its not difficult to find a friend with a DS or 3DS, hell you could even use a friend online in another country if you wanted to. If anything with the number of people playing pokemon and the sheer number of DS's and 3DS's sold, I would argue that your example of people not being able to find someone/anyone else with a DS or 3DS would be the exception to the rule.

It's not difficult. For YOU to find a friend who's got a DS/3DS. Stop applying your own experiences like that to the entire world. As earlier stated I have to travel 7 hours. I don't have the time to do that. I don't have the money to do that. I can't do that whenever I want. Do you see the problem here? As I stated, I know someone who claims homeopathy works. This person is fully aware of that every trial that has shown possible improvement compared to placebo is false, but she still believes it. You will continue to maintain the stance that your personal experience is applicable to everyone so why should I even bother to discuss this any further?

However you keep insisting that this is a replacement of Pal Park and I want to question that as the last thing. How is this a replacement of Pal Park? Pal Park was only present in one game and only because this was the only game where the opportunity was there. A GBA cartridge and a DS cartridge on the same system. The unique opportunity to have 2 cartridges at the same time. That's the only reason it could be done. That is why it's not present in Black/White. You know what Black/White have? They have Poke Transfer. It's pretty much the same as Pal Park except you need two separate systems. Yes, you need 2 DSes to transfer ONE WAY ONLY from past generations to a future generation. This is the system they are replacing, not Pal Park. Pal Park was replaced by Poke transfer a long time ago. Pal Park is the exception, stop trying to say otherwise. I might be wrong here so if I am, next post either disregard this completely or show me exactly how you can transfer Pokemon from one generation to another using only one console in the other generations.

Don't get me wrong, your right that it's not the atrocity that I'm probably making it out to be, but I don't just magically accept new prices on things just because someone told me to, particularly endless fees. I consider how these things affect me and how I was able to do those things before. I'm still not buying any future Pokemon games. For me this wasn't saving money, it was taking money. And for a lot of others this was probably the case too. And to be honest, I don't differentiate by what's worse and what's not (microtransactions compared to this, for example), if its sleezy I'm calling it out, small or big.

Fair enough, people won't take you seriously if you do, but fair enough. However one question you seem to be dodging in all of your posts.

Why is this the example on the tip of your tongue when there are so many worse ones to pick from?

Please make an effort to explain this because I am genuinely curious. It's kinda like asking why people aren't complaining about the light drizzle when they have just survived a terrible hurricane.

As it seems you and I both have our reasons for our stances so I don't really see this as anything more than an impasse. I do appreciate you discussing it with me though and I can at least see better now a picture of it from someone else's perspective. I'll read any further points you have, but I've said what I have to say on the matter.

I wouldn't call what you have voiced reasons. All you've done is cried about Pal Park and refused any explanation of why Pal Park isn't in X/Y and ignored the fact that it's not present in R/B/Y/G/S/C/R/S/E/FR/LG/HG/SS/B/W/B2/W2, but if you want to call that reasons. Go ahead.

And I meant to touch on this before and forgot, but I actually don't appreciate that they make two versions required in order to get all the mons, yes that is a cash grab. I've gotten into that debate before a long time ago, just not here. I would love if they changed it so that all pokemon were in just one game each time, however I doubt they will. And I can at least get by that by not having to buy both versions because there are others I can go to, or find on reddit whom I can trade with. This costs neither of us any extra money to do also. Especially now with the awesome Wonder Trade thing its gotten loads easier to pair up for some new pokemon, although overtime I imagine it will lose its utility since its just random chance.

Yes, this have been progress. Why don't you whine about the fact that this feature wasn't there in Red or Blue?

The Pokemon Bank thing was just the most recent icing on the cake of my already large aggravation with pokemon. I don't want to really get into it, but their world and level design as well as plot progression choices (as in you don't get any choices about where to go, i.e. hand holding) have turned into garbage over the years, IMO. That and they refuse to make another game as large as Silver/Gold/Crystal (excluding the remake because they were forced to, otherwise fans would be pissed).

So what you're saying is that Pokemon Bank isn't the reason you quit the series. It's just the last straw. You are arguing at length about how Pokemon Bank is an awful cash grab while what you're really saying is that in coalition with your pre-existing ire Pokemon Bank just tipped you over the edge? That's something else entire from saying that Pokemon Bank is so horrible that it made you abandon the series. Then it's clear to me that people who don't share this ire would also be likely to accept Pokemon Bank which to all of us is time saving and to some of us money saving, but I doubt you'll ever see reason on this. You have shown no ability to do so before, you have shown no ability to accept evidence that contradicts you so I am sure you'll keep being blinded by your own opinions regardless of what I can tell you. Hate Pokemon all you want. Hate consumers for being stupid all you want. Just don't be surprised if you get called out on your opinions when you're wrong.

Your doing just the same thing you claim I was doing. In this response your lumping your condition to everyone else. I literally said, "As it seems you and I both have our reasons for our stances so I don't really see this as anything more than an impasse." I'm upset because pal park existed before now and they refused to do better than that this time. I never imposed my aggravation with it onto you. I've said that for people like me, not ALL people, this was a rip off. If you refuse to understand that, then nothing I say is going to help you. I gave you how it worked against all players and how it could have been done better, but that's not enough for you. Just let it go. Just because you disagree with me doesn't make my anger with it incorrect.

Demonchaser27:

Your doing just the same thing you claim I was doing. In this response your lumping your condition to everyone else. I literally said, "As it seems you and I both have our reasons for our stances so I don't really see this as anything more than an impasse." I'm upset because pal park existed before now and they refused to do better than that this time. I never imposed my aggravation with it onto you. I've said that for people like me, not ALL people, this was a rip off. If you refuse to understand that, then nothing I say is going to help you. I gave you how it worked against all players and how it could have been done better, but that's not enough for you. Just let it go. Just because you disagree with me doesn't make my anger with it incorrect.

I'm not lumping everyone together. I said not everyone has the opportunity to trade with a friend. I didn't say no-one has the opportunity. You said it wasn't difficult to find a friend to trade with. I said for some people it is difficult.
Do you see the distinction? I say that there are some people (not everyone) who actually have difficulties transferring their Pokemon to a new game. You said it's not difficult, while meaning it's not difficult for you.

Look, you are ignoring most of what I am saying and you refuse to answer my questions. If you don't have any answers for that then I can safely get to my conclusion that you are overreacting and that you may or may not be aware of it.

Edit: OK, let's just end this. My major claim is that you're overreacting. You said you react like this to everything, big or small. That is the very definition of overreacting so you did kinda confirm my claim a long time ago.

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