Jimquisition: Air Control - A Steam Abuse Story

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Thanatos2k:

What do you mean by "censored"? Some kind of minimum quality requirements would not censor a good game, by definition.

Absolute freedom is not a good thing, as we can see here. All stores do not carry all products, and you wouldn't want them to.

There is no such thing as a self-evident set of quality requirements that would automatically filter out every bad game and leave in every good, and case-by-case human judgement is too slow for the onslaught of indie games that are released nowadays.

I would rather have an absolutely free platform that has Air Control and Earth 2066, but ALSO has games like Minecraft, Goat Simulator, or Rust, than a platform that has neither, just a series of solid traditionally good games.

The ability to censor reviews should be taken away, and user-made storefronts should be set up inside the system, to make it a bit easier to make an informed judgements, but kicking games off from the system is not the solution.

Alterego-X:

Thanatos2k:

What do you mean by "censored"? Some kind of minimum quality requirements would not censor a good game, by definition.

Absolute freedom is not a good thing, as we can see here. All stores do not carry all products, and you wouldn't want them to.

There is no such thing as a self-evident set of quality requirements that would automatically filter out every bad game and leave in every good, and case-by-case human judgement is too slow for the onslaught of indie games that are released nowadays.

I would rather have an absolutely free platform that has Air Control and Earth 2066, but ALSO has games like Minecraft, Goat Simulator, or Rust, than a platform that has neither, just a series of solid traditionally good games.

The ability to censor reviews should be taken away, and user-made storefronts should be set up inside the system, to make it a bit easier to make an informed judgements, but kicking games off from the system is not the solution.

So because you can't make a system that's 100% effective, don't bother?

That's not how things work in real life.

If Steam wants to be well Windows-but-with-paying-Valve-money-too then they cannot give developers control over their own review sections. Removing those controls sucks and lots of decent developers are going to have a lot of mental anguish because of it, but it's absolutely ridiculous to not curate your content and actively give developers tools to deceive people.

Thanatos2k:

So because you can't make a system that's 100% effective, don't bother?

That's not how things work in real life.

In the cases where trying to bother leads to more harm than not trying to bother does, a neutral system is the closest to that 100%.

And yes, this is exactly how things work in real life. If we can't automatically separate true ideas from false ones, there should be freedom of speech rather than trying to get close to government-sanctioned truth. If we can't objectively find the perfect religion, then there should be freedom of religion for all rather than one person's idea of which is the best state religion.

Freedom is not the lack of any system, it's a system in itself, one that regularly proves itself more safe and stable than individuals' "perfect solutions".

Alterego-X:

Thanatos2k:

So because you can't make a system that's 100% effective, don't bother?

That's not how things work in real life.

In the cases where trying to bother leads to more harm than not trying to bother does, a neutral system is the closest to that 100%.

And yes, this is exactly how things work in real life. If we can't automatically separate true ideas from false ones, there should be freedom of speech rather than trying to get close to government-sanctioned truth. If we can't objectively find the perfect religion, then there should be freedom of religion for all rather than one person's idea of which is the best state religion.

Freedom is not the lack of any system, it's a system in itself, one that regularly proves itself more safe and stable than individuals' "perfect solutions".

But your claim that it would harm anything is PURE SPECULATION and not likely true at all. You're worried that a "good game" might "get censored."

As opposed to getting garbage out of Steam that we KNOW exists.

And please learn what freedom of speech is, and how it doesn't apply in the slightest bit to the products a company chooses to allow to be sold in its store.

Alterego-X:
So... who is being abused? The handful of reviewers who have bought Air Control specifically to rant about how bad it is, and profit from the video views?

Or the mythical "ordinary Steam user" who supposedly buys games at random browsing the "latest released" list, yet clearly the critically approved games sell well while these get hundreds of sales, and most of these AFTER they went viral for being bad?

The average users just want to buy Watch Dogs, and they could do that on either site, it might as well be Steam whether or not it also sells Air Control. The only people who would certainly be affected by tighter Steam quality control would be the handful of shithounds who intentionally look up games like this, but with the potential risk of genuinely popular games like Goat Simulator or Rust also getting kicked out of Steam before they could go viral.

Exactly.

It absolutely confounds me how so many on this site; of whom generally demand acceptance of such things as fair use, non-censorship, user/customer choice, and creative freedom; can sit there and demand Valve add some form of "quality control" to Steam.

What metrics do we use for such a system? What qualifiers do we use to define what constitutes a "good game" and a "bad game"?

Is it defined by whether or not the game functions well on PC? If that be the case, many popular triple-A games wouldn't make it onto Steam. More recently, Dark Souls 2 and Watch Dogs would be considered utter shit by this metric and would therefore not be sold on the Steam store.

Well obviously these people wouldn't want that, so that can't be our metric. So what metric do we use instead?

Is it based on a game being a blatant scam, exploiting customers, or false advertisement?

Such blatant scams and entirely non-functional games have already been pulled from the Store and refunds sent to those who asked for them; while others have seen their devs forced to alter their game or risk being pulled. So this can't really be the metric we're looking for since it already exists.

So what's left? Do we judge a games "quality" by what enjoyment a user derives from it? If so, that's the very definition of a subjective metric - which leaves us with a conundrum. Namely: Who gets to decide which games are fun and which aren't?

If I was in that position, there's no way Dark Souls 2 would make it onto Steam. That game, to me, is abysmally dull, tedious, and just awful to play; whereas something like Rust, even in its unfinished state, yields hours and hours of entertainment. Likewise, there are plenty of gamers that derive more enjoyment out of those dime-a-dozen simulator games than they do out of, say, big-budget games like Watch Dogs.

Everyone here seems so angry that Steam doesn't have a "quality control" system in place; desperate to see one implemented. However, it also seems like many of them haven't really considered what such a system actually entails and what kind of effect it may have on an industry predicated almost entirely on creative freedom.

Alterego-X:

I would rather have an absolutely free platform that has Air Control and Earth 2066, but ALSO has games like Minecraft, Goat Simulator, or Rust, than a platform that has neither, just a series of solid traditionally good games.

The ability to censor reviews should be taken away, and user-made storefronts should be set up inside the system, to make it a bit easier to make an informed judgements, but kicking games off from the system is not the solution.

I swear you and I are on the exact same wavelength about this. I 100% agree with this sentiment.

Imp Emissary:
[quote="BigTuk" post="6.851575.21052290"]

Fair enough about the copyright stuff. Now that the game has such attention, the owners will take action if need be.

That said, your argument is that now since the information has been removed that it no longer matters that they tried to do something wrong?

:D Good to know! I'll give this a try.

Hey! IRS!

I didn't CHEATED ON MY TAXES! I no longer OWE YOU SO MUCH MONEY THAT I DON'T PLAN TO PAY!

:D Now to later remove/alter this so they can't get me.

Edit: Safe! :)

Actually the point was. Misleading or incorrect information *was* there. The information has now since been changed to no longer be misleading or incorrect(?). The old information is the equivalent of an error. When a news paper prints an error...and then prints a retraction. That's pretty much it. The devs have more or less done the equivalent of a retraction. Which is vaguely responsible. They saw their information was misleading or inappropriate and they altered it to be less (?).

As for your statement. words are cheap.. easily said and easily taken back. IRS usually don't give two licks about what you say so long as they get their money. If not... much like the mafia or pimp... there will be a 'visitation'

Seriously Jim I get that there are some shit games on steam and something needs to happen, but these videos get old/

Hopefully Jim sees this and stops doing them. I mean, sure, there's a problem. Sure, it needs to be addressed. Sure, something needs to be done (a point on which you agree). But we wouldn't want to be bored, now.

Yeah, cause not talking about issues is a sure way to get them fixed.

Thanatos2k:

But your claim that it would harm anything is PURE SPECULATION and not likely true at all. You're worried that a "good game" might "get censored."

As opposed to getting garbage out of Steam that we KNOW exists.

You can always compare the games released on PC, too the ones released on consoles. r even just the ones released on Steam to the ones released on Green Man Gaming. The recent indie revolution with hundreds of great games, couldn't have happened on a more closed system, as it is evident from the fact that it really DIDN't happen.

Thanatos2k:

And please learn what freedom of speech is, and how it doesn't apply in the slightest bit to the products a company chooses to allow to be sold in its store.

Yeah, neither does freedom of religion. Please don't bring up "real life" if you can't even realize the difference between a gaming discussion and it's analogies in real life counterparts being compared.

Jimothy Sterling:
Air Control - A Steam Abuse Story

Video froze a quarter of the way through. Now I have to restart the Jimquisition.

LoneWolf83:

Busard:
I've had a game i'm working on recently greenlit. We're very proud and hard working on it. But even us thought that is somehow of an easy process.

To be precise: we've been greenlit in less than a month. We're still very early in development and have something playable right now although still alpha, and we put up some few screenies and early vids. We didn't think we'd be accepted for months, thinking "Well, until that gets there, we'll have time to flesh out". But in less than a month we were greenlit.

While obviously i'm very happy about that, it makes me wonder what the hell steam is becoming. And how shit like this actually happens. It takes away a bit of the joy of being greenlit because when you see the other shit that's coming along the ride, you start to question, as a dev, if your product is actually good enough or you're just going along for the ride. I would've actually been more relieved actually if our game took a little longer to get accepted, giving us time to prove ourselves, rather than getting on so quickly.

And this last piece doesn't make me less shaky about it

Why did you put it on Greenlight if it was so early in development and whats going to happen if something happens and the game can't be finished?

This highlights an easily fixable issue with Greenlight, games are put on Greenlight that are ether far from finished or otter crap an still get through. The simple solution is: to even be eligible for Greenlight a game should ether be available elsewhere or have a working demo available. It's a simple solution that would prevent a lot of bad games from getting though Greenlight.

We asked beforehand and were suggested to by different people to put it on greenlight as soon as possible.

Ourselves, as a team, thought it would take month for us to be greenlit at all, but we just wanted to be at the ready when we'd be closer to release, like maybe even have a demo or something. Basically we were all thinking "Well in a few months we'll have more gameplay to show, some stuff to send out, etc etc". We wanted to be a bit on the safe side.

Turns out for us the process was just way way quicker than we initially thought. We were happy, although baffled.

Now being greenlit doesn't actually mean anything, except we'll be able to to get our game published on steam when the time comes or have early access if we ever decide to do stuff like that, although unlikely unless we have something VERY stable and fun to show.

But the ease to be greenlit is mostly what I wanted to point out. It only took us a few screenshots (although apparently our art style turned out pretty damn well, which made people vote for us a lot. We ended up in the top 25), a pre alpha vid and a nice text presentation.

Again, we're happy that we're greenlit but other stuff that i'd consider to be way more dubious gets as easy as a time to get up there too

Thanatos2k:

Thanatos2k:

So because you can't make a system that's 100% effective, don't bother?

That's not how things work in real life.

But your claim that it would harm anything is PURE SPECULATION and not likely true at all. You're worried that a "good game" might "get censored."

As opposed to getting garbage out of Steam that we KNOW exists.

Wow. Just last week you were saying how releasing DLC harms the games games industry. You were also saying how companies shouldn't be allowed to edit their games, and should have to sell 100% of the content developed up to the point of release.

Contradict yourself much?

SlashmanSG:

Yeah, cause not talking about issues is a sure way to get them fixed.

Actually in this case, it is. The only issue in this case is that reviewers keep digging up obscure buried games just to rant about them and make them go viral based on their badness.

The PC was an open platform for decades, we had plenty of games like Big Rigs, before a single company tried to become the umbrella publisher for all of them, and giving surface for nontroversies about how someone should Do Something.

josemlopes:

BigTuk:
snip

Just fucking do some research, with the internet it isnt hard at all, is 20 minutes of roaming around youtube and forums that much to ask from consumers?"

I am in complete agreement. Look there have *always& been crappy games. I think many are two young to remember the shareware boom of the early 90's. SItes like tucows and Happypuppy were littered with shareware games. So yeah, consumers... do a little research. and keep an open mind. I mean honestly if you had said I'd like 'Paper's Please' I'd have laughed at you. The game's graphics look like someone took 3 minutes in mspaint. There isn't any animation to speak of.. and the concept sounds boring. But yet when I played the game... I was and still am blown by how well designed it is. Yet I know many that would say that it's crap and shouldn't even be worth a dime. Personal tastes. Somepeople like Curried chicken with pickles and mango chutney on their burgers.. some don't. I'm not going to demand a diner take an item I never plan to buy off their menu because i don't like it.

nevarran:
Curious how they arrested the PirateBay co-author(or something), for creating an environment, where people can share (for FREE) copyright protected data.
And what do we have here, Valve creates an environment, where you can literally be robbed of your money. And the consequences for both parties (Valve and the thieves) are... NONE!

I didnt realize that Steam would automatically buy the game for me, oh wait, no. I have to be a retard to not look at the video that fucking auto-plays at the game's store page before clicking on the "Purchase" icon. I can even be a bigger retard and not read the info below the video and the images. I can also completely ignore the negative reviews and metacritic score all shown in the same fucking page. Damn you Valve! You might as well go buy some cigarettes too because I like to have a smoke after I get fucked.

[/quote]

Again.. I totally agree. . Seems consumers have yet to realize that... they don't have to buy something they don't want to buy. They can ignore it.

One could argue that the flood of bad games makes it harder for the genuinely good games to stand out but I don't agree. WHile it does widen the crowd.. if you''re genuinely good, you will be recognized if you're even remotely competent at self-promotion and if you aren't ... well devs might be a good idea to get someone who is on your team or maybe take a marketing/pr course. Papers Please stood out, Binding of Isaac, Don't Starve, Kerbal Space Program, Goat Simulator, Surgeon Simulator and Heavy Bullets just to name a few.

Alterego-X:

Thanatos2k:

But your claim that it would harm anything is PURE SPECULATION and not likely true at all. You're worried that a "good game" might "get censored."

As opposed to getting garbage out of Steam that we KNOW exists.

You can always compare the games released on PC, too the ones released on consoles. r even just the ones released on Steam to the ones released on Green Man Gaming. The recent indie revolution with hundreds of great games, couldn't have happened on a more closed system, as it is evident from the fact that it really DIDN't happen.

Uh......what? First of all, there are not hundreds of "great" indie games out there, unless you've somehow redefined the word great. A mere handful of great games come out every year. Good games? Decent games? Maybe.

Please list one of these "great" games that could not have come out on Steam if it had minimum quality requirements.

Thanatos2k:

And please learn what freedom of speech is, and how it doesn't apply in the slightest bit to the products a company chooses to allow to be sold in its store.

Yeah, neither does freedom of religion. Please don't bring up "real life" if you can't even realize the difference between a gaming discussion and it's analogies in real life counterparts being compared.

What in god's name are you going on about? You're the one who started rambling about freedom of speech, like it had ANYTHING to do with what we're talking about here.

Yup, figured you'd put a Jimquisition about this piece of manure passed off as "software", much less as a "videogame".

It's a bit worrying that Steam is becoming yet another Google Play or AppStore, where for every good or decent game, you need to dig through hundreds upon hundreds of bad ones.

Granted, it's still not bad as those two, but GOG already has quality assurance themselves, if a game doesn't work, they outright give your money back, heck, even fucking Origin has refunds!, Steam however, tough shit if you bought an unplayable mess.

Jimothy Sterling:
Air Control - A Steam Abuse Story

You thought Earth: Year 2066 was bad? A mere appetizer, my child. A mere appetizer.

Watch Video

Ahh steam. The very model of a libertarian market place.

Which is why I say kick libertarianism into the ditch next to communism and fascism where it belongs, piss on it then bury it deep as another bad idea.

Wow, this is like, Desura levels of bad. Go home Steam yer drunk...

Thanatos2k:

Please list one of these "great" games that could not have come out on Steam if it had minimum quality requirements

Katwa Shoujo.

Thanatos2k:

What in god's name are you going on about? You're the one who started rambling about freedom of speech, like it had ANYTHING to do with what we're talking about here.

You said "because you can't make a system that's 100% effective, don't bother? That's not how things work in real life."

I replied by pointing out a real life examples of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion, which are two examples of things working exactly like this in real life too when we realize that our specific ideas of "good" might be conflicting and we fall back to freedom instead of imposing one of the possible regulations and hoping that it will be as close to 100% effective as possible.

Busard:

LoneWolf83:

Busard:
Snip

Why did you put it on Greenlight if it was so early in development and whats going to happen if something happens and the game can't be finished?

This highlights an easily fixable issue with Greenlight, games are put on Greenlight that are ether far from finished or otter crap an still get through. The simple solution is: to even be eligible for Greenlight a game should ether be available elsewhere or have a working demo available. It's a simple solution that would prevent a lot of bad games from getting though Greenlight.

We asked beforehand and were suggested to by different people to put it on greenlight as soon as possible.

Ourselves, as a team, thought it would take month for us to be greenlit at all, but we just wanted to be at the ready when we'd be closer to release, like maybe even have a demo or something. Basically we were all thinking "Well in a few months we'll have more gameplay to show, some stuff to send out, etc etc". We wanted to be a bit on the safe side.

Turns out for us the process was just way way quicker than we initially thought. We were happy, although baffled.

Now being greenlit doesn't actually mean anything, except we'll be able to to get our game published on steam when the time comes or have early access if we ever decide to do stuff like that, although unlikely unless we have something VERY stable and fun to show.

But the ease to be greenlit is mostly what I wanted to point out. It only took us a few screenshots (although apparently our art style turned out pretty damn well, which made people vote for us a lot. We ended up in the top 25), a pre alpha vid and a nice text presentation.

Again, we're happy that we're greenlit but other stuff that i'd consider to be way more dubious gets as easy as a time to get up there too

That does make sense. Your original post does highlight how Greelight can be abused. I dabbled in game design for a little while and I have a few things that could be considered pre-alpha, I could make some very touched-up screenshots of one of those, go through greenlight, then sell a pre-alpha for ten bucks on early-access so I could say "it's early-access" when people complain, and then never work on it ever again, duping people out of ten bucks. Given my finical situation part of my brain is saying "do it!", I'm not because I have morals and a conscience but others could and are probably in the process of ding it.

Alterego-X:

Thanatos2k:

Please list one of these "great" games that could not have come out on Steam if it had minimum quality requirements

Katwa Shoujo.

And what about it would fail to meet a minimum quality requirement?

Thanatos2k:

What in god's name are you going on about? You're the one who started rambling about freedom of speech, like it had ANYTHING to do with what we're talking about here.

You said "because you can't make a system that's 100% effective, don't bother? That's not how things work in real life."

I replied by pointing out a real life examples of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion, which are two examples of things working exactly like this in real life too when we realize that our specific ideas of "good" might be conflicting and we fall back to freedom instead of imposing one of the possible regulations and hoping that it will be as close to 100% effective as possible.

Freedom of speech is not a system that works 100% effectively, nor is speech 100% free. So if you were trying to use it as an example to disprove what I was saying you picked a terrible one.

You were the one who suggested that since there's no way to come up with quality requirements that would let every game in, that such an endeavor is worthless. I responded that such a thing is wrong because that's not how such systems work in real life. For example, just because cars occasionally crash and kill people does not mean that cars must be completely safe before we'd let them on the road.

What we have here is a road with no traffic signs. Most cars are playing by the rules, but we have some, like this game, that are playing bumper cars. Some regulation is necessary.

So, once again we have the pitchfork and torches out, demanding that the heathen developers leave Steam...

So, for all the people who want Steam to filter content, can you give one consistently enforceable policy, with little to no inherent subjectivity, the would prevent Air Control from being on the store, but still allow Surgeon Simulator 2013? I had great, great fun with that game, because it was terrible.

Copyright doesn't count--if we've learned anything from YouTube by now, it's that content delivery systems should not be proactively engaged in filing copyrights. It's not Valve's job to enforce the DMCA, nor should they try to.

BigTuk:

Actually the point was. Misleading or incorrect information was there. The information has now since been changed to no longer be misleading or incorrect. The old information is the equivalent of an error. When a news paper prints an error...and then prints a retraction. That's pretty much it. The devs have more or less done the equivalent of a retraction. Which is vaguely responsible. They saw their information was misleading or inappropriate and they altered it to be less.

This statement is much better than the poopy diaper. :D
Side note about the old comment.
I'd say it depends on how old the person in question is. If they are 21 and 20 years ago they were in a poopy diaper, that makes sense.
<.< If they're 41......They may need to explain....

That said, the dev was willing to lie about their product and continued to silence those who brought up criticism about the game.

The very least we can ask is that the information on the games page should be trustworthy.
I don't see how devs being able to say whatever they want about their game and being able to delete comments they don't like helps the consumers.

BigTuk:

As for your statement. words are cheap.. easily said and easily taken back. IRS usually don't give two licks about what you say so long as they get their money. If not... much like the mafia or pimp... there will be a 'visitation'.

xD Don't worry. They have nothing on me.

They have enough to worry about since they apparently owe money to themselves.
Only 1% of them, true, but that's like saying 1% of vegans eat veal with milk.

Abnaxis:
So, once again we have the pitchfork and torches out, demanding that the heathen developers leave Steam...

So, for all the people who want Steam to filter content, can you give one consistently enforceable policy, with little to no inherent subjectivity, the would prevent Air Control from being on the store, but still allow Surgeon Simulator 2013? I had great, great fun with that game, because it was terrible.

Copyright doesn't count--if we've learned anything from YouTube by now, it's that content delivery systems should not be proactively engaged in filing copyrights. It's not Valve's job to enforce the DMCA, nor should they try to.

what about advertising fraud? that's probably the primary issue here.

weirdee:
what about advertising fraud? that's probably the primary issue here.

Naming the game "Surgeon Simulator" is about as fraudulent as it gets, depending on how you look at it. Every single negative review for the game came from someone who bought it expecting an actual simulation of performing surgery, and they would have killed the game based on "fraud".

I know Air Control is a crappy game, and not going for the same irony Surgeon Simulator is, but the line between them is a thin, fuzzy, gray one.

weirdee:

Abnaxis:
So, once again we have the pitchfork and torches out, demanding that the heathen developers leave Steam...

So, for all the people who want Steam to filter content, can you give one consistently enforceable policy, with little to no inherent subjectivity, the would prevent Air Control from being on the store, but still allow Surgeon Simulator 2013? I had great, great fun with that game, because it was terrible.

Copyright doesn't count--if we've learned anything from YouTube by now, it's that content delivery systems should not be proactively engaged in filing copyrights. It's not Valve's job to enforce the DMCA, nor should they try to.

what about advertising fraud? that's probably the primary issue here.

That would also have kept Aliens Colonial Marines off Steam, and I think we can all agree that would have been a good thing.

Naming the game "Surgeon Simulator" is about as fraudulent as it gets, depending on how you look at it. Every single negative review from came from someone who bought it expecting a simulator.

Names are not and never will be descriptive. "I went to see Man of Steel and he wasn't actually made of steel! I want a refund!" Sounds stupid? Same thing here.

McKitten:
Stuff like this doesn't happen because Steam lacks quality control, but because Steam lacks a return policy. If Valve weren't so fucking determined to never let go of a single cent they got their grubby hands on, people would just return games like this 10 minutes after purchase and the scammers would stop making them because they'd get no money out of it.

Aye, depending on Valve's policy, either the makers would get nothing, or the makers would get some money before the reviews roll in, and Valve would eat the lost revenue from people demanding refunds, which would push them to implement some quality control. Either way, the problem solves itself.

Abnaxis:

weirdee:
what about advertising fraud? that's probably the primary issue here.

Naming the game "Surgeon Simulator" is about as fraudulent as it gets, depending on how you look at it. Every single negative review from came from someone who bought it expecting a simulator.

I know Air Control is a crappy game, and not going for the same irony Surgeon Simulator is, but the line between them is a thin, fuzzy, gray one.

I believe that issue is with surgeon simulator's advertising, which would, if there was a standard, have to put in something about it being satire on the page. It wouldn't be much to give up for not having utter garbage scams around.

Monday June 2, 2014, 3:49 PM EST. Air Control is still there.

Thanatos2k:
Names are not and never will be descriptive. "I went to see Man of Steel and he wasn't actually made of steel! I want a refund!" Sounds stupid? Same thing here.

There's a difference between being non-descriptive and being deliberately counter-factual. The name "Surgeon Simulator" is deliberately misleading for the purposes of irony--the game is quite obviously far, far from even approximating a simulation. That's the joke.

But from another perspective the game is "advertizing" itself as a simulation when it quite clearly isn't one. That is the definition of false advertizing.

weirdee:
I believe that issue is with surgeon simulator's advertising, which would, if there was a standard, have to put in something about it being satire on the page. It wouldn't be much to give up for not having utter garbage scams around.

I'm not talking about the format of the Steam page. I'm responding to all the people that demand Valve implement some sort of quality control so that the likes of Air Control would never be sold on their storefront.

I think the system would benefit greatly if there was a better way for people to get information about a game within Steam proper, that is not entirely under the control of the developer. However, that's a whole 'nother can of worms separate from what I'm trying to bring up in my original post.

Imp Emissary:

BigTuk:

Actually the point was. Misleading or incorrect information was there. The information has now since been changed to no longer be misleading or incorrect. The old information is the equivalent of an error. When a news paper prints an error...and then prints a retraction. That's pretty much it. The devs have more or less done the equivalent of a retraction. Which is vaguely responsible. They saw their information was misleading or inappropriate and they altered it to be less.

This statement is much better than the poopy diaper. :D
Side note about the old comment.
I'd say it depends on how old the person in question is. If they are 21 and 20 years ago they were in a poopy diaper, that makes sense.
<.< If they're 41......They may need to explain....

That said, the dev was willing to lie about their product and continued to silence those who brought up criticism about the game.

The very least we can ask is that the information on the games page should be trustworthy.
I don't see how devs being able to say whatever they want about their game and being able to delete comments they don't like helps the consumers.

That is all steam asks as well. and it's when the devs/publishers give misleading or inaccurate information that hurts customers that Gabe starts throwing his weight around (and trust me that fella... he got's some weight). As for silencing criticism... well that's the devs right. Valve if nothing else is very happy to give devs and publishers all the rope they need to hang themselves.. You see any savy consumer will usually see the oujtright lack of negative comments as a red-flag. No product in the history of history have every been universally liked by all those who have acquired it. Take amazon reviews..most smart folks look at the five star rati8ngs, look at the 1-2 star ratings and the 3 star ratings to get an idea. If you see no 1 or 3 star ratings that is a redflag.

There's also a genuine reason. After all.. what's to stop someone from leaving a host of negative reviews and such about their competitor's products? Companies pay good money to people to post positive reviews about their products ... would it be so hard for them to pay people to leave negative feedback?

The Devs have to have that freedom to remove those comments that hurt or are basically just part of someone else's smear campaign

BigTuk:

As for your statement. words are cheap.. easily said and easily taken back. IRS usually don't give two licks about what you say so long as they get their money. If not... much like the mafia or pimp... there will be a 'visitation'.

xD Don't worry. They have nothing on me.

They have enough to worry about since they apparently owe money to themselves.
Only 1% of them, true, but that's like saying 1% of vegans eat veal with milk.[/quote]

Veal is delicious!

also in regards to the poopy diaper. There's several reasons for a 20 year old to be in one...most reasons involve lots of beer, experimental herbal experimentation and being on the losing side of a bet (Or all of the above... we've all had parties like that. Why do you think Vegas has that motto 'What happens in Vegas... stays in Vegas'

Thanatos2k:

And what about it would fail to meet a minimum quality requirement?

It's premise implies either a trolling attempt or a fetishist porn which would be a cause for removal.

Surgeon Simulator another good example of the same problem but for other reasons. It's not a functional simulator.

Thanatos2k:

What we have here is a road with no traffic signs. Most cars are playing by the rules, but we have some, like this game, that are playing bumper cars. Some regulation is necessary.

There were some towns that tried to remove all traffic signs. Accidents plummeted each time. Turns out, if drivers actually pay attention to their surroundings instead of relying on regulations, they are driving more safely.

You are right, just because people die from car crashes, doesn't mean that cars must be completely safe.

However, sometimes it might turn out that the desperation to Do Something causes more harm than a more laid-back, permissive regulation.

- Something Must Be Done!
- Well, this here is something.
- Then it must be done!

It's a bad thing that people die from car accidents, but maybe regulating the roads just to do something is even worse than not regulating it at all. It's bad that bad games exist on Steam, but maybe turning it into a walled garden would caue more harm than the bad games themselves.

Abnaxis:

Thanatos2k:
Names are not and never will be descriptive. "I went to see Man of Steel and he wasn't actually made of steel! I want a refund!" Sounds stupid? Same thing here.

There's a difference between being non-descriptive and being deliberately counter-factual. The name "Surgeon Simulator" is deliberately misleading for the purposes of irony--the game is quite obviously far, far from even approximating a simulation. That's the joke.

But from another perspective the game is "advertizing" itself as a simulation when it quite clearly isn't one. That is the definition of false advertizing.

I don't see how. The game IS simulating surgery, it's just doing it intentionally poorly for the purpose of comedy. The description is factually correct.

Alterego-X:

Thanatos2k:

And what about it would fail to meet a minimum quality requirement?

It's premise implies either a trolling attempt or a fetishist porn which would be a cause for removal.

Its premise "implies"? You're suggesting that no one at Steam would even look at the game itself before greenlighting or denying it? Why are you suggesting that?

Deadagent:
Oh Jimmy boy. Again with your quality control. I dont know Why I have to keep explaining this over and over and over again.
They're trying to make an open platform, and quality control goes directly against that. Understand?
No, you obviously dont.

Maybe I should just leave this here.

Jim:
It dosen't matter if you're "Triple A", If you're "Indie", If you're big, small, if you're a team of 600 or if you're a solo man job. If you put shit on the internet and you wanna charge for it, you're offically making a product and you will be critizised as such.

Unless you're an attractive looking woman of course,
then you can scam people as much as you fucking please and get praised for it.

i like how the guy in your video thinks, that being said steam would use the informationg provided by tags and user revieews to give personalized recomendations to users

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