No Right Answer: Is Game of Thrones Overrated: The Rebuttal

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Is Game of Thrones Overrated: The Rebuttal

Chris made an episode-long claim that Game of Thrones is overrated. You, the fans, smacked him in the face with reason. This...is that story.

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So this was a really cool episode. I liked that it was a two-parter, and that Chris got a full chance to speak his mind and lay out all his frustrations with the show at once. Both the starting argument and the response were respectful and passionate.

I hope this pair of videos gets a lot of views, I think it would be entertaining if you guys tackled another topic like it in the future.

Now I'm hoping for a part 3, where they actually debate in real time. No offense to Kyle (he knew a lot for someone who hasn't seen the show, has he read the books?) but maybe someone who watches the show would be better for on-the-fly reactions. No idea where you could find people like that, though.

I am proud to say I have never watched a single episode of game of thrones.

I am also proud to say

I still find the series to be incredible overrated. Its nothing special, its a flipping HBO bewb wagon which everyone feels a need to be part of due to peer pressure.

But great arguments from both sides. I do feel like it was kinda silly the format though, would have loved to see some stand alone points that weren't rebutted.

Great episode. Well done Kyle. And Chris too, for listening like that.
Didn't change your mind, but you are still watching... that's kinda sad, when there's TONS of stuff you could be watching that you'd like! Maybe Hannibal?

Looking forward to the Rebuttal Rebuttal episode. You have to do one now that the Gauntlet is thrown down with that "I disagree" :P

Epic_Bubble:
I am proud to say I have never watched a single episode of game of thrones.

I am also proud to say

I still find the series to be incredible overrated. Its nothing special, its a flipping HBO bewb wagon which everyone feels a need to be part of due to peer pressure.

But great arguments from both sides. I do feel like it was kinda silly the format though, would have loved to see some stand alone points that weren't rebutted.

(Full disclosure I'm a Spartacus fan. Just a caveat to why i love the Game of thrones.)

Having never seen it and calling it overrated is by definition just prejudice. Not that you are wrong, I just find it silly to see people berate something they've never experienced.

I'd say to watch a few episodes, but its a moot point anyways, you've already made up your mind. So right on.

I started the show after it aired for about 3 episodes, wanted to see what the hubbub was about. I got hooked by the setting. Having never read the books, i just love the world the show portrayed, Westeros and its mythology. Comicbookgirl19 helped by filling me in on the backstory.

The show is way overrate only because of the attention it gets. Is it the greatest show ever? no but from the media you'd think it was. But it is a very good show to follow. Especially great to binge on. All great shows are. Buy hey different people like different things and i respect that. I've never watched Lost or the Sopranos for the same reasons XD

By the sounds of it, I should get back into the show to give it a fair chance. I kind of got bored in the middle of the first season, after all the talking and talking and awkwardly placed sex scenes with brown-haired white guy #64. Actual fight scenes were few and far between and they didn't show the White Walkers since the first 5 minutes of the first episode. If we viewers/readers invest this much time into a long-running story, we expect some damn payoff!

Chris's face in this episode was priceless because he was just getting completely ripped to shreds and he had no comebacks so had to just shit there.

Either way - it's fair enough if you don't like Game of Thrones, but the point is, don't go and criticise it if you can't be bothered to invest yourself in the show and learn about the characters and get invested in them - because that's what Chris' initial argument was, which is a pretty weak on.

PS the books are better.

peoples need to quit listening to the hype machine and allowing media to influence their opinions. Who cares if "everyone and their mom" is or is not watching/playing/doing something?! Ignore all that BS and just find out for yourself. Even if a friend, a buddy, or a guy is claiming something is the best thing ever, take it with a grain of salt.
I personally like to hear opinions from like-minded friends, critics, etc sure, but I don't let them or media hype form my opinion for me.

I've always read in to Game of Thrones as having global warming undertones - Winter is coming, but the people who control Westeros, who have the power and wealth to made a difference are all too busy fighting with each other for... more power and wealth, and they don't seem to realize that these things are no good to them if they're dead... or un-dead.

That aside I went through about a year of thinking Game of Thrones was overrated until I realized the show is only as good as you want it to be. If you take the time to listen closely to the dialogue, watch the non-verbal cues, and really engage with all of the interweaving storylines and motives it can be a really rewarding experience. If you talk over it and try to mindlessly take it in via osmosis like any regular show, it winds up being "lol sex, dragons, violence! omgsss". Which is probably why it's so popular. Theres something more for people who want it, but if you want to just tune out and annoy the former camp with questions like "is he a bad guy?", and "what just happened?" you're probably still going to get some enjoyment out of all the stuff that comes across as shock value out of context.

Can we please stop having these sing topic "no right discussion", or as you more recently called them "yes vs no" episodes? I joined for the fun "x vs y" in "most, best, worst, least Z". It's a solid format that provides a more open discussion, forcing the debaters to bring up a wider selection of source material, rather than focusing on a single topic and beating it down for a whole episode. The episodes where you occasionally take fan submitted "Who would win?" ideas are not only plenty of fun, but they are more than enough variance to keep the show interesting.

It's the "infantile sex" that makes me not want to watch it.

I watched the first two episodes. I couldn't take any more.

From what I remember, this is what happens in them:

- Boobs.
- Guy molests his sister, then sells her into sex-slavery to a Barbarian. Also, more boobs.
- Brother-and-sister are caught having sex by a kid, who they push out of a window.
- Kid inevitably survives and wakes up. The world's worst assassin is killed by the kid's mother, in what appears to be a stroke of pure luck.
- A dog gets killed.
- Yet more boobs.

Other than that... there's plenty of walking about by characters I haven't gotten to know or care about, talking about stuff that I don't understand or care about. I don't remember the names of any of the characters, except Joffrey, because he's pretty much the focal point of the second episode. I remember that one of the two brother-sister pairings was called the Lannisters.

The first episode opens with an attack on some random guy by HUGE SUPERNATURAL MONSTERS! That are never seen or mentioned again. And no, I had no idea who the guy was or what his importance was to the plot either. Look, I daresay all of this stuff gets tied together in future episodes... but the first fifty-five minutes of the first two episodes was utter boredom, with something dramatic happening at the very end to set up a cliffhanger (which, again, might work if I had any interest in these characters. I don't - they're all either totally despicable or deadly dull. Again, this might change in future episodes, but I've got no interest in sticking around to see if that happens.)

Look guys, I like boobs as much as the next man, but this just felt like far too much of a slog to get to 'em.

I think this is a program for people willing to devote a great deal more time and patience than I'm willing to do. I think it was done quite well for what it was, but from what I saw of it it's not for me. And honestly, if it hasn't sold me in two entire hours' worth of content, it's probably not going to sell me on the rest either. So I get the "naysayers". I think this might be great if you're willing to put the effort in, but I simply wasn't. I don't have the time for it.

After trying to show the show to several people, including my roommate, I have come to the conclusion that however popular, it is NOT for everyone. It is not because of the big cast, it's not even for the sex. The problem is a lot of viewers nowadays expect immediate and direct payoffs and are not fans of big storylines, something that GOT is a huge part of.

canadamus_prime:
It's the "infantile sex" that makes me not want to watch it.

HA! xD That part of the episode got me a bit. I'm 12 sometimes, sorry. ;p

That said, the sex stuff does turn me off it a bit too. (<-Easy pun target.);D

Plus, there are other places to see dragons. Fun enough episode though. =w= b

So all the arguments FOR Game of Thrones indicate it has the RIGHT to be crap. I'll give it that.

I'm not a Martin basher. "Fevre Dream" is my favorite vampire novel.

Didn't attempt to justify the sex like many commenters successfully did. 0/10

Also, and I can't be alone in this, the sex is not that frequent and not that explicit. Just because it doesn't happen in TV shows doesn't mean it doesn't have a right to happen more often if the TV show is trying to be serious.

Being put off by an abundance of boobs seems as pathetic as watching it for lots of boobs. Get over it. The boobs have massively been reduced now, so if that's what's holding you back then rest assured - chest fat should no longer interrupt your viewing experience.

I found this episode more entertaining than I thought it would be, but I can't fight the nagging suspicion that it's just reverse snobbery on Chris' behalf (especially considering some of the stuff these guys like). It's a very solid series, and while the TV show isn't as good as the books, it's definitely up there with other top notch TV shows. People are put off by it's popularity, wrongfully going into the show cynically.

I'm 100% with Chris. I hate that show. It's not only bad, it also makes the world a worse place. People actually use it as an excuce to being assholes.

Also: "I watch it because it's more like real life".
My god.

It's not and I don't want to have anything to do with you or your life.

Verlander:
Being put off by an abundance of boobs seems as pathetic as watching it for lots of boobs. Get over it. The boobs have massively been reduced now, so if that's what's holding you back then rest assured - chest fat should no longer interrupt your viewing experience.

I agree completely (although the phrase "the boobs have massively been reduced now" made me laugh) although I will say that ep 5 of this season was the first time that I actually found the nudity to be a bit irritating, both with Salladhor Saan talking with whores for no reason and a fight scene intercut with Ramsay having sex for no reason.

The unnecessary nudity thing is probably the most valid general criticism for the show. It's just one of those things that bother some people and not others.

The whole insistence that the Red Wedding doesn't matter isn't just wrong it's really weird. It's akin to saying "who gives a fuck about blowing up some space station" as a response to destroying the death star.

Also Kyle knows a shit load about the show for someone who never watches it (if he reads the books then this would make sense)

K12:

Verlander:
Being put off by an abundance of boobs seems as pathetic as watching it for lots of boobs. Get over it. The boobs have massively been reduced now, so if that's what's holding you back then rest assured - chest fat should no longer interrupt your viewing experience.

I agree completely (although the phrase "the boobs have massively been reduced now" made me laugh) although I will say that ep 5 of this season was the first time that I actually found the nudity to be a bit irritating, both with Salladhor Saan talking with whores for no reason and a fight scene intercut with Ramsay having sex for no reason.

The unnecessary nudity thing is probably the most valid general criticism for the show. It's just one of those things that bother some people and not others.

The whole insistence that the Red Wedding doesn't matter isn't just wrong it's really weird. It's akin to saying "who gives a fuck about blowing up some space station" as a response to destroying the death star.

Also Kyle knows a shit load about the show for someone who never watches it (if he reads the books then this would make sense)

You're right, and I question the point of even criticising it now. Imagine if someone reviewed the first Harry Potter film, and they said "It sucks, because they don't kill Voldemort". The story isn't even over in the books yet, so how does anyone know what's relevant or not?

Im still in the category of, "Its Overrated". Im not even happy with some of the arguments presented as to why its not.

"Its reputation proceed's it", isnt a valid excuse for being a porno. Even Southpark did an episode to make fun of this. Children will still watch and see it. It doesnt stop kids from playing violent/sexual video games, and it certainly wont stop them from just opening a webpage and watching it on any number of devices in the house.

And then the argument for how you aren't expected to know every character by heart. "You aren't expected to know them all, but when someone actually turns out to be important you should know about them". The argument sort of contradicts itself, that you dont have to know everyone, but you have to know everyone.

Following that, the Red Wedding argument. "All these dying characters haven't done anything important to your knowledge. Except they are actually super important and can cause any number of absolutely terrible events can happen". This makes them important, but the show itself never really puts weight on it, and its compounded by the fact that you might not recognize half of their names unless you opened a wiki.

Im not saying Game of Thrones is bad. But if some of the problems with it are more "The failings of TV as a medium", but i dont see that as a real excuse. They couldnt focus on a smaller cast? Or cut the story into segments and follow smaller groups at a time? Episodes 1-10 follow 10 people, episodes 10-20 follow 10 different people, so on and so forth. Its overwhelming because they're trying to cover everything at once. And while this is one of the failings of TV as a medium, its also a failing of the director and script writers to not make it fit the medium itself.

Its a decent show with some good intrigue, but its still overrated for what it is. It has its problems, like a lot of shows, but its these problems fans constantly try to excuse.(like the consistent pacing problems because "So what? People do things and you have to deal with it!" Seriously, how is that even an argument? If i made a TV show about Nazi Walruses that was 29 minutes of talking about jewish fish in monotone voices, followed 60 seconds of pure explosions, would that be proper pacing? "Theyre walrus, and this is what they do until one of them causes explosions, so deal with it!" No, that doesnt excuse poor pacing. Again, this could be a "failing of TV as a medium", but its still up to the writers and directors to make it FIT THE MEDIUM, just like the writers and directors of the LoTR's movies made them fit the medium of Theater)

Im not saying you cant enjoy it, or that i dont enjoy it. But its still overrated, and overhyped to hell.

kouriichi:
Im still in the category of, "Its Overrated". Im not even happy with some of the arguments presented as to why its not.

"Its reputation proceed's it", isnt a valid excuse for being a porno. Even Southpark did an episode to make fun of this. Children will still watch and see it. It doesnt stop kids from playing violent/sexual video games, and it certainly wont stop them from just opening a webpage and watching it on any number of devices in the house.

And then the argument for how you aren't expected to know every character by heart. "You aren't expected to know them all, but when someone actually turns out to be important you should know about them". The argument sort of contradicts itself, that you dont have to know everyone, but you have to know everyone.

Following that, the Red Wedding argument. "All these dying characters haven't done anything important to your knowledge. Except they are actually super important and can cause any number of absolutely terrible events can happen". This makes them important, but the show itself never really puts weight on it, and its compounded by the fact that you might not recognize half of their names unless you opened a wiki.

Im not saying Game of Thrones is bad. But if some of the problems with it are more "The failings of TV as a medium", but i dont see that as a real excuse. They couldnt focus on a smaller cast? Or cut the story into segments and follow smaller groups at a time? Episodes 1-10 follow 10 people, episodes 10-20 follow 10 different people, so on and so forth. Its overwhelming because they're trying to cover everything at once. And while this is one of the failings of TV as a medium, its also a failing of the director and script writers to not make it fit the medium itself.

Its a decent show with some good intrigue, but its still overrated for what it is. It has its problems, like a lot of shows, but its these problems fans constantly try to excuse.(like the consistent pacing problems because "So what? People do things and you have to deal with it!" Seriously, how is that even an argument? If i made a TV show about Nazi Walruses that was 29 minutes of talking about jewish fish in monotone voices, followed 60 seconds of pure explosions, would that be proper pacing? "Theyre walrus, and this is what they do until one of them causes explosions, so deal with it!" No, that doesnt excuse poor pacing. Again, this could be a "failing of TV as a medium", but its still up to the writers and directors to make it FIT THE MEDIUM, just like the writers and directors of the LoTR's movies made them fit the medium of Theater)

Im not saying you cant enjoy it, or that i dont enjoy it. But its still overrated, and overhyped to hell.

In response:

I think I agree that having nudity in order to protect the kiddies is not really a defence and I'm not sure it was presented as anything other than tentative excuse rather than a complete rebuttal to the criticism. From my understanding (which may be wrong) American parents seem to be more concerned with their kids watching sexually explicit stuff than extreme violence so it may have some merit.

The story does require a fair amount of explicit sexual content in order to establish the characters and the setting and also a fair bit of the grosser stuff is a significant plot point but... yes there is more nudity than it needs.

With respect to narrowing down the characters... they have... A LOT! I could probably fill up the whole of the rest of this comment with a list of names of characters that are explicitly mentioned in the books who do not feature in the series... but I won't. This series the show has given characters longer segments rather, cutting back and forth between groups less often and I think this is definitely a positive move. It wouldn't work however to give whole episodes or whole seasons over to a single character. The stories of characters are too interwoven and dependent on each other for that to work. Even Daenerys and Jon Snow, who's stories are most separate from the main Game of Thrones story would have odd clunking "why the hell did this happen?" moments caused by actions from other groups of characters.

The purpose of this is to make Westeros (and Essos) a living, breathing place. In real life there are no extras. Everyone has their own goals, needs, prejudices, vices etc. and George Martin has done a pretty good job of creating a story that feels like that. This translates less well to the show because a lot of a character's importance is their name (X of the noble House Y etc.) and short of everyone wearing name badges (banners and sigils being quite close) there's no real way to put this across. You miss out on a lot of little titbits about the history and culture that really brings the world alive however there isn't a way of doing this in the show without it feeling like an annoying sidetrack.

I completely disagree that characters aren't distinct enough from each other and remembering names isn't necessary have a vague sense of who the key players. As with many things you can enjoy it at different levels. Knowing more means you notice more (e.g. banners, allegiances and recognising "The Rains of Castemere" playing in the background or the history between certain houses etc.)but it is still good even if you miss a lot.

I still don't understand the Red Wedding criticism. Unless it's just backlash against the hype that fans have given to it (not the shows fault at all) then I don't see it could possible have not been significant and devastating.

All this said "overrated" just means "I enjoy this less than most other people" and there is always a varying level of enjoyment anything. Something as popular and well-loved as Game of Thrones will have plenty of people who are just luke-warm about it and that's fine. I personally think that the books are probably the most epic and best story I have ever read (depending MASSIVELY on how the last 2 books go, if they are ever fucking finished at all) and the TV series is a very good (or even excellent) adaptation of that story.

guh not going to sit thru a debate between a guy who did not like the show so he claimed it was 'overrated' because simply saying "I didn't like it" and not giving any sane reasons is unacceptable.

and someone who hadn't seen it.

Don't know WHY you felt like making a two parter about something you literally have no idea what you are talking about.

But beyond that the whole 'overrated' thing. with regards to WHOM, the god damn internet at large? because with a large enough sample size then BY DEFINITION the rating is 100% correct. its statistics.

So there is a right answer.

DOES IT DESERVE TO BE POPULAR? totally different question. and yes it does, because its high fantasy on Television, what other high fantasy on television with a budget do we get? just this and Lord of the rings movies.

Its got high production values, it wins emmies its not s***. Theres NOTHING to argue here, You didn't like it, and you give the hipster reason 'overrated' as your tagline? Just say 'I didn't like it, cuz I'm a damn hipster'

because thats what the word overrated MEANS. From Usage. If you aren't smashed you shouldn't be using this word where people can hear you.

I'm not even going to justify the series as a whole, its long it has its ups and downs, you haven't seen it, so why bother talking about it? If you were going to see it at some time in the space time continum it would have been before you spent two episodes talking about it.

But here if its doesn't deserve its popularity, what unknown High fantasy show on Television deserves to fill its niche and be popular in its stead?

Its what you got to talk about if you don't want to be waste of time.

red255:

But here if its doesn't deserve its popularity, what unknown High fantasy show on Television deserves to fill its niche and be popular in its stead?

Its what you got to talk about if you don't want to be waste of time.

I don't see why something that's "The only one of its kind" deserves any respect or recognition by default, personally.

Though I sometimes joke G.R.R.M. is one day going to commit suicide and upon reading his will, the executor will find that he needs to have a card saying "Hah! I bet you did not see THAT coming, did ya!" to every fan of the series ^^

While I do think the show is a tad overrated, I still think it's very good. It's just not the best thing on television like so many claim. For me, that honor goes to Hannibal.

Domoslaf:
I'm 100% with Chris. I hate that show. It's not only bad, it also makes the world a worse place. People actually use it as an excuce to being assholes.

Also: "I watch it because it's more like real life".
My god.

It's not and I don't want to have anything to do with you or your life.

You're allowed to actually think for yourself you know. People dont say that because their life is like that, people say that because a lot of shit like this went down not too long ago. And because in real life, a lot of shit like this still goes down. Stuff is seldom fair. People die for stupid reasons. Ambition and greed are the driving forces of humanity. Nobody is safe. Life doesnt care if you have a plan, it can all turn to shit in a heartbeat.

Is GOT a light show? No. Is it an instant gratification show with short storylines? No. Is it bad? Very no.

It is a sprawling epic with a huge cast, big rivaling noble families, multidimensional characters with their own motivations and goals, betrayals, long-term plots and plans, terrific acting (Peter Dinklage, Charles Dance, Aidan Gillen, Conleth Hill, the list goes on) et cetera...you might not LIKE it, but that does not mean its a bad show.

Also, I really dont see how it gives people and excuse for being assholes. People dont need excuses for that.

Vegosiux:

I don't see why something that's "The only one of its kind" deserves any respect or recognition by default, personally.

Though I sometimes joke G.R.R.M. is one day going to commit suicide and upon reading his will, the executor will find that he needs to have a card saying "Hah! I bet you did not see THAT coming, did ya!" to every fan of the series ^^

Okay.

Look I suppose the easiest way to explain it is you can't compare apples to oranges.

If you get a high fantasy show and were expecting something else when you wanted something else, you will claim its overrated due to no fault of the show.

Like say I feel like an orange, I get an apple, a PERFECTLY good apple, which is also a fruit and stuff, but I wanted and was expecting an orange, does this make the apple BAD?

Its not fair to the apple. to evaluate it as an orange.

so you must evaluate Game of Thrones as what it is, British High Fantasy. and when the only other thing you can reasonably compare it to is Lord of the Rings, which you can do if you are fair and give allowances to the lack of budget and limited time to shoot each scene given the TV format.

but yeah the point is you can't compare apples to oranges. unless you are an idiot.

red255:

Vegosiux:

I don't see why something that's "The only one of its kind" deserves any respect or recognition by default, personally.

Though I sometimes joke G.R.R.M. is one day going to commit suicide and upon reading his will, the executor will find that he needs to have a card saying "Hah! I bet you did not see THAT coming, did ya!" to every fan of the series ^^

Okay.

Look I suppose the easiest way to explain it is you can't compare apples to oranges.

I'm not going to hold my breath...

If you get a high fantasy show and were expecting something else when you wanted something else, you will claim its overrated due to no fault of the show.

Like say I feel like an orange, I get an apple, a PERFECTLY good apple, which is also a fruit and stuff, but I wanted and was expecting an orange, does this make the apple BAD?

Its not fair to the apple. to evaluate it as an orange.

And how does that apply in any way to what I said? What I asked was that if there's only one orange in the world, do you have to respect it, even if it happens to taste like literal shit and damn near kills you if you take a bite out of it?

so you must evaluate Game of Thrones as what it is, British High Fantasy.

It also "is" a whole lot of other things as well, and I'm not sure whether labeling it as something so specific in order to divert criticism says more about the show or about you.

and when the only other thing you can reasonably compare it to is Lord of the Rings, which you can do if you are fair and give allowances to the lack of budget and limited time to shoot each scene given the TV format.

Why is it the only other thing I can reasonably compare it to? Now, if I was writing a thesis about how GoT compares to the rest of British High Fantasy, I guess I'll be restricted to that, but...I'm not writing such a thesis?

but yeah the point is you can't compare apples to oranges. unless you are an idiot.

You don't need to compare oranges to apples to figure out whether they taste good or bad.

Epic_Bubble:
I am proud to say I have never watched a single episode of game of thrones.

I still find the series to be incredible overrated. Its nothing special, its a flipping HBO bewb wagon which everyone feels a need to be part of due to peer pressure.

Your hypocrisy has reached heights yet unknown to humanity, sir. You've frankly left me speechless, and not in a good sense of the word.

And btw, 'overrated' is french for "I don't agree with the majority opinion but my opinion must be the true one nonetheless, because I'm that important"

Epic_Bubble:
I am proud to say I have never watched a single episode of game of thrones.

I am also proud to say

I still find the series to be incredible overrated. Its nothing special, its a flipping HBO bewb wagon which everyone feels a need to be part of due to peer pressure.

But great arguments from both sides. I do feel like it was kinda silly the format though, would have loved to see some stand alone points that weren't rebutted.

Was this a parody post?

Feels like a parody post...

Vegosiux:

You don't need to compare oranges to apples to figure out whether they taste good or bad.

You do go on, My point still stands, but probably doesn't apply to whatever the hell you wrote, which doesn't apply to whatever the hell I thought we were talking about.

Qvar:

And btw, 'overrated' is french for "I don't agree with the majority opinion but my opinion must be the true one nonetheless, because I'm that important"

Yeah I don't like the word overrated either, especially without a regards to WHAT. Wouldn't bring the french into the discussion, I actually feel it has less meaning than that, it means 'its popular, but I don't like it'. Calling it French is calling all the French Hipsters and thats racist.

Even though overrated is not a term I like to use to describe something that I personally don't rate very highly, due to its subjective nature. If I had to pick a show out there that is getting undeserved attention at an inconceivable ratio it would be Game of Thrones by a large margin.

After the first season to me it was nothing more than another soap opera with swords, a bloated budget, pointless tits and a vague lingering tease of ice zombies and dragons. The show honestly did nothing but make me care less and less about any of the characters as the show went on and I found myself rooting for the White Walkers to breach the wall and just kill everyone. The acting was on par for a cable drama. The physical quality of the show was excellent(costumes, sets, ect.)

I just cant get around how convoluted the show is. I don't know if the books were that bad, having not read them, or if its an adaption problem, seems like they wanted to keep all the characters but cut 99% of their substance to the point that the might just as well have been an extra that stumbles into frame with a name tag on, flash a message at the bottom of the screen that they were important somehow and then proceed to kill them and expect the audience to have a reaction. They shouldn't include characters that they aren't going to develop.

I guess it could be said that the drama is spread so thin throughout the show that its pretty much transparent.

P.S.) No. A more complex story does not make it better or somehow mean that people who don't like it "just don't/cant understand it"

P.S.2) No. The existence of the books should have no bearing on the understandability of the show and its characters. A show has to be able to stand on its own. I grow tired of the old "well if you read the books you would know why [insert character here] was so important"

P.S.3) I am not telling anyone that they shouldn't enjoy the show for any reason, just that I don't for the above reasons.

Don't you know, guys? You have to like this show. Even though it's not your thing you have to. It's the big thing to like in our social circle. You want to be accepted around here, you have to like it.

Wait... So, is Chris only watching GoT for the music or something?

Or is he still waiting for that omnipresent narrator to jump in and say "Now, fellow viewer... You see that character right there? He/She will change the course of Westeros forever..."

Other than that... Maybe Chris should focus on only a few characters who are not GRRM's personal favorites and then work from there...

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