Escapist Podcast - Movies and TV: Bonus: Game of Thronescast, Season Finale

Bonus: Game of Thronescast, Season Finale

In this bonus Podcast, The Escapist crew talks about the final two episodes of Game of Thrones. Obviously, there will be spoilers. Hodor!

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I feel like most of the criticisms of the last two episodes here mostly come down to misinformation and ignoring clearly stated facts of the story.

For the Wall story, short of the criticism that there's way more Watchmen than there should be, none of what was said is actually true. Mance didn't build a giant siege tower because 1) I doubt the Wildlings are good enough engineers to build that big of a tower 2) it'd take too damn long and waste time better spent running from ice monsters 3) a giant tower being erected would be seen well before it was finished and provided very good evidence for reinforcements and 4) a surprise attack (Mance didn't know or expect Jon to betray them) and ripping the gate down would have been a quick, decisive victory. If the Night's Watch didn't know that the Wildlings were coming and were only concerned with the raiders to the south and the White Walkers, the siege preparation wouldn't have been done and Mance would have won in a single battle.

In addition, they mention that the forces sent to attack are just meant to feel out the defenses and not the full army; and they likely routed because the mammoth is running away (on fire), one of the giants is dead, and the other disappeared into the tunnel alone, and climbing the wall gets you torn apart by a giant chain. Mance solves all of this by sending a few hundred to the east and west to climb the wall away from these defenses, which pretty much means the next attack would have been successful.

With Brienne vs. the Hound, are you really devolving into "it's not realistic for a huge woman to beat a big guy, because gender," and in a fantasy series of all things? Dragons, fire immunity, giants, ice demons, and zombies are all fine, but a woman overpowering a man is just too damn much for you, even when the guy has a festering wound and inferior equipment? Even if you want to go that route, it's not an arm wrestling match, it's a sword fight and brawl, which means whoever murders the other underhandedly first wins. Brienne wins the sword fight with technique and a lack of injuries, and then the Hound cuts his own hands to bring it into a brawl, where she beats him with a rock, bites his ear off, and then punches him a bunch of times because there's more to fighting than who can benchpress the most and what genitals you have.

For Arya, considering the point seems to show her as a cold killer, leaving the Hound to die slowly seems like a better way to show that. The Hound also decides to try and prod her to kill him by taunting her with Mycah and wanting to rape Sansa, thinking that anger would lead to her killing him, not her letting him suffer. And, when she gets to the boat, the reason she probably asks to go to the Wall for Jon is because she's not stupid. The best shot she has of murdering everyone is to go collect herself somewhere safe like Castle Black, rather than ride back to King's Landing through all the rapists and bandits and enemy soldiers by herself.

With Cersei, you completely ignored her given reason for revealing the incest: marrying Loras will take her away from her last child. She wants to stay in King's Landing with Tommen, not be shipped off to the Reach and leave her last son for Tywin and Margery to manipulate. I'm all for speculation, and shoving the thing in Tywin's face probably was a side benefit, but overt dialogue trumps speculation.

Personally I'd say Theon has it the worst.

Also I'd agree, no way would the Hound lose against Brienne. He lost because plot-wise he needed to lose (since the inn fight scene in the show was very different from the books), but at least the fight was cool.

Either way, it was a great podcast. Really appreciate you guys making these, they have been a joy to listen to.

Looking forward to next season, I assume a good chunk of it will outpace the books.

Ramith:
Personally I'd say Theon has it the worst.

Also I'd agree, no way would the Hound lose against Brienne. He lost because plot-wise he needed to lose (since the inn fight scene in the show was very different from the books), but at least the fight was cool.

Either way, it was a great podcast. Really appreciate you guys making these, they have been a joy to listen to.

Looking forward to next season, I assume a good chunk of it will outpace the books.

Yeah I'm amazed that no one mentioned Theon, he's been utterly destroyed mentally and physically.

Also my theory about Rickon is that George Martin created him purely so that he felt free to kill or remove every other Stark character and still have a Stark rule at Winterfell by the end of the story.

I found it hard to listen to the conversation about the Hound vs Brienne fight, since it sounded less like criticism and more like nitpicking and fan-wank. I don't understand this attitude of "the Hound should've won, it makes no sense for Brienne to win". It's not Dragon Ball Z, it's not like every fighter in Westeros is on some rigid hierarchy of skill, where outcomes are all based on power level. We already saw that in "The Mountain & The Viper' where the man who 'should' have won the fight lost because being the better duellist did not make him immune to human error (in that case, arrogance and having soft, squishy eyeballs).

The evidence is all on there the screen; they were evenly matched for most of it, so it could have easily gone one way or another. In fact, that's what I liked about the fight; unlike Oberyn v Gregor, I didn't know how it was going to turn out and was genuinely excited not knowing who would win, or who I wanted to win.

Also, they only touched on it briefly, but I really liked the conversation between Jon & Mance at the start of the final episode. While the wildlings were portrayed inconsistently, I think Mance has been really well characterised as a charismatic leader.

LifeCharacter:
I feel like most of the criticisms of the last two episodes here mostly come down to misinformation and ignoring clearly stated facts of the story.

Have to agree with this. So much of the stuff they talked about was actually explained in the program.

For example yes in full health the Hound should beat Brienne, guys are bigger and stronger. But, the dude has a seriously infected wound, and is operating at about 30% of full power.

Your also right about the Cersei bit, she was only telling the one man who is the least likely to want the truth coming out. And her reasons were explain in the scene.

As for the Manse raider stuff. HE DID NOT KNOW HOW WELL DEFENDED THE WALL WAS. I can't believe these guys just forgot that, it was the really big deal in the previous episodes. Yes if he knew they were really only 100 men he would have scaled the wall at an unguarded bit. Which he did when he eventually worked out how few men they had. Before that he was concentrating his forces on one spot that he knew had a viable gate.

There is more as well. The answers are in the series if you watch to pretty much all of it.

I'm pretty sure I argued for all of what you guys have commented on. I am the VOICE OF REASON!

 

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