Escapist Podcast - Comics and Cosplay: 007: Jack Kirby's Copyrights, Gary Oldman's Rant

007: Jack Kirby's Copyrights, Gary Oldman's Rant

This podcast is audio-only. NOTE: Next week's podcast will be audio and video. Having conquered technical difficulties, we're back with a brand new podcast. With Jack Kirby's family's lawsuit against Marvel back in the news, we talk at length about precisely what the dispute is, what a successful verdict might mean, and why it doesn't matter what his family's motivations are for trying to secure copyright control over the characters he created. We also talk a bit about what Gary Oldman said in his recent Playboy interview, and examine whether or not there's any truth to his complaints.

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Interesting Topic. Thank you for the work you put into laying it out to us in such detail.

If the ruling goes the way you hope and expect it to, how do you think it will in the future affect production and financing of large undertakings like major marvel comic productions.

Seeing as the who owns what landscape of comicbooks is already convoluded as hell, would this ruling not further interfere with the parties interest to develop a product of an original work?
If so, how much of an impact do you think this would have?

I arguing as a white male, there is no impersonal word that can hurt me. If you call me the "f" word it doesn't bother any more than if you call me a doo-doo head. And I could be mistaken, but because Ross in his own words said he is a little mincing, being called the "f" word might be more personal which is why it hurts his feeling. That is a while guess, and I reconize I could be wrong.

I feel sad at your ignorance and your petty spirits.
Most of your observations are juvenile attacks against straw men.

While you say that people should put more thought into their comments than "dicknose", you mindlessly attack "old white men". This is made more pathetic when one recalls that in the film the character said "big nose". Why did your mind substitute a phallic association where it did not exist?

It feels absurd to ask you simply to be smarter and more thoughtful and more generous of spirit. It feels absurd to ask you to approach Oldman's comments with acknowledgement that he did indeed say things that were true about "PC" speech codes -- codes which your own reactions attempt to enforce. But you could at least approach the subject with the awareness that he was speaking, not writing and that his comments were being made to an interviewer as part of many hours of conversation that are not represented in the interview text. Perhaps he felt he was speaking off-the-record in that moment or that the interviewer would not use those statements because they were (as spoken) extreme examples drawn into an ad hoc argument and not carefully chosen and planned statements.

It would be nonsense to say that a man's acting career should excuse his personal beliefs. But Oldman was not talking about his own beliefs; he was talking about what people are able to get away with saying, and the fact that some people are permitted to say, with apparent sincerity, things that other people cannot. This is not simply a matter of "you can mock your own kind" -- a rule which is as worthless as it is idiotic, as any biracial or bisexual person knows. Oldman is pointing out that some people are permitted, generally because of their political affiliations, to say things that would get other people fired or boycotted.

If a "conservative" has an affair, then he's a liar and a cheat, because people hold him accountable for violating his wedding vows. Yet when a "liberal" does it, everyone knows they didn't take the vows seriously and so it's okay. It's a game of expectations and double-standards. It's not really wrong -- it serves a social purpose -- but Oldman doesn't like it and a lot of people don't like it -- especially people on the side that is held to the "higher standard". It feels unfair. It's not, because they have the benefit of being on the side that everyone knows is held to a higher standard, even though people won't talk about that. (In other words, when really bad things happen, people look to the "conservatives", police and so forth to re-establish order. Which isn't ideal, but it's how things work.)

Anyway, just stop being so petty.

Wow, two 20 somethings discussing entitlement. Who would have thunk it.

KIRBY had a right to dispute his contract, he chose not to for whatever reason. He should have done a better job of securing his legacy. He chose not too.

bdcjacko:
I arguing as a white male, there is no impersonal word that can hurt me. If you call me the "f" word it doesn't bother any more than if you call me a doo-doo head. And I could be mistaken, but because Ross in his own words said he is a little mincing, being called the "f" word might be more personal which is why it hurts his feeling. That is a while guess, and I reconize I could be wrong.

I think you might be onto something. I just wanted to make the point that when I previously said to someone THERE IS NOTHING, I was wrong. Slurs can hurt. They suck. And I guess the larger thing is that when discussing privilege it's important not to let it turn into "and therefore ONLY [specific people] are able to be hurt."

theApoc:
Wow, two 20 somethings discussing entitlement. Who would have thunk it.

This line of thinking always confuses me, the thought that being part of a particular demographic immediately diminishes the validity of a particular topic. Like the things that are said mean less because of the person speaking it rather than the fault of the idea being presented.

It might just be me but I feel arguments are far more interesting when focusing on the topic of the argument instead of the people presenting it.

RossaLincoln:

bdcjacko:
I arguing as a white male, there is no impersonal word that can hurt me. If you call me the "f" word it doesn't bother any more than if you call me a doo-doo head. And I could be mistaken, but because Ross in his own words said he is a little mincing, being called the "f" word might be more personal which is why it hurts his feeling. That is a while guess, and I reconize I could be wrong.

I think you might be onto something. I just wanted to make the point that when I previously said to someone THERE IS NOTHING, I was wrong. Slurs can hurt. They suck. And I guess the larger thing is that when discussing privilege it's important not to let it turn into "and therefore ONLY [specific people] are able to be hurt."

Everyone has emotions and bad days and stuff going on. To some how think a group of people don't get to be offend because of what ever reason or another group some how has a monopoly on feeling offend is just silliness. That being said as a white male 30+ years old, I still don't get offend by much. But you can if you want.

-Dragmire-:

theApoc:
Wow, two 20 somethings discussing entitlement. Who would have thunk it.

This line of thinking always confuses me, the thought that being part of a particular demographic immediately diminishes the validity of a particular topic. Like the things that are said mean less because of the person speaking it rather than the fault of the idea being presented.

It might just be me but I feel arguments are far more interesting when focusing on the topic of the argument instead of the people presenting it.

It speaks more to the people commenting than the subject of the podcast. They have such a myopic view of the world, a view where EVERYONE is an underdog, the little guy is never wrong, and the sheer act of creating something(good or bad) entitles a person to respect and creates relevance.

It is an ever increasing problem where there is no true insight into a topic, but rather a self righteous justification for their own opinions. "I think this is wrong, therefore it is wrong". Context, data, logical analysis... All irrelevant in comparison to their own ideology. In this case an argument could be made in regards to the topic at hand, they just shouldn't be the ones making it.

 

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