Escapist Podcast: 145: Women and E-Sports

145: Women and E-Sports

This week, the brave Escapist crew discusses the International e-Sports Federation.

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If they split the a girl and boy team what they'll do is advertise the crap out of the men's team and make the women's team seem like pansies cuz they need to reinforce the whole girls aren't real gamers.

Its the difference between male and female ninja warrior you can tell where the real action is and the girls is so lame. They could combine the division just put up a wall girls on one side and men on the other you know if they're afraid of the women distracting the men in their normal T-shirts and hoodies this way both can just play and compete. It doesn't help about the rumors that girl e-gamers are picked only on looks instead of skill which also doesn't help. by putting up a cubical wall it prevents either side from harassing each other physically at least it would just be via voice chat if they even allow for that during the competition.

I'm glad you guys addressed this issue on the podcast, but I have to ask: was there no way to have at least one female on the show discussing women in e-sports? I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that there were legitimate reasons why a female guest wasn't included, but it stills comes across as a bit tone-deaf.

Maddhaus:
I'm glad you guys addressed this issue on the podcast, but I have to ask: was there no way to have at least one female on the show discussing women in e-sports? I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that there were legitimate reasons why a female guest wasn't included, but it stills comes across as a bit tone-deaf.

I tried to get some female voices on the podcast, but it was a day before a National holiday so my first, second and third choices all were out on vacation. I get your point. As I said in the podcast, it would have great to have Janelle on for a LARGE number of reasons.

I disagree with Tito. E-sports is not the type of sports like basketball, it is more like Chess. Biological differences of male and female body matters very little for the outcome of the game unlike in physical sports, and thus there is no reason to seperate the two based on that. As far as community goes, your not going to make community less hostile by segregation, quite the opposite. Also this being team sport, it completely annihilates the idea if mixed gender teams, which would mean that for example my group of people i play with would be banned because there are 2 women in there. We dont play Heartstone and play for fun, but if we were to pursue this on competitive level they just closed that door to us, making it harder, not easier, to get in.

Womens only league is as bad as men only league. Its just sexism from a different perspective than we are used to. If you want equallity, you shouldnt make things "women only".

as far as people uploading videos without commentary. they are still transformative works. the gameplay itself is transformative. without that, the game would just be a movie. and if you designed a game to be like a movie, maybe you should be making movies instead, because your not making a game.

Nintendo claims copyright on youtube videos, monetized or not. the videos get disputed and put back on, because the claim is wrong. nintendo just claims it again on the same video next day. they keep abusing this system to keep videos down without any reprecutions, because whoever bought the law (no sane person would have written it like that without a bribe) didnt want anyone to stop them abusing it. and Nintendo is using that abuse. That alone would be worth boycotting Nintendo.

Maddhaus:
I'm glad you guys addressed this issue on the podcast, but I have to ask: was there no way to have at least one female on the show discussing women in e-sports? I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that there were legitimate reasons why a female guest wasn't included, but it stills comes across as a bit tone-deaf.

I find it strange that you think only females can understand the problems females face. No, males can do that as well, provided they arent sexist. And These guys arent. so whats the problem?

A fact about some e-sports what is off putting for me is indeed the commentary. When commentators suddenly screaming on top of their lungs or get very excited in the course of the it really just strikes me odd. I know if you are passionate about something it can happen but the stuff I've seen in LoL or TF2 streams is just ...odd. When I start wondering how much cocaine the commentator has consumed I turn off the sound. Hand in Hand with that runs the coverage and the message sticking to the example of LoL.
What is transported is the feeling of the tournament is a huge deal light show great screens cheering fans, supporting their team. Like the well established sports. Well let's throw in some Fantasy League get people even more involved. And then you have the coverage of the players and this is were it gets really obvious you have fresh out of puberty guys with no aethlitic aestetic posing as badass grim looking guys for the team foto and on "the playing field" they are nothing like that. They are mostly cool, friendly, laughing guys in their appearence.
At this point I just think does it need all this? Is this the only way e-sports can be a thing by mimiking established sports instead of finding its own way?
It might be what puts people off and even arguing against e-sports the clichè of underestimated nerd being put in the spotlight and transformed into the celebrated jerk football captain he always despised in school. This is highly hypothetical and I do not have hard science to back all this up, I just might be completly wrong here.

white_wolf:
If they split the a girl and boy team what they'll do is advertise the crap out of the men's team and make the women's team seem like pansies cuz they need to reinforce the whole girls aren't real gamers.

Its the difference between male and female ninja warrior you can tell where the real action is and the girls is so lame. They could combine the division just put up a wall girls on one side and men on the other you know if they're afraid of the women distracting the men in their normal T-shirts and hoodies this way both can just play and compete. It doesn't help about the rumors that girl e-gamers are picked only on looks instead of skill which also doesn't help. by putting up a cubical wall it prevents either side from harassing each other physically at least it would just be via voice chat if they even allow for that during the competition.

Err... admittedly I've only seen a few episodes of American Ninja Warrior, but don't they put the men and the women all in the same competition? I seem to recall catching an episode recently, where three or four men went up, and then a women went up, too. Doing the same course with the same obstacles with the same competitors. As a matter of fact, the only reason I watched the episode is because Ninja Warrior went to the Today show and made a big deal out of the fact that that night's episode was the first time a woman made the cut for the next round or something. Unless... are try-outs for the show divided by gender or something?

Though if I recall correctly, the original Ninja Warrior from Japan was divided by gender. For which I offer no excuse, but that's Japan.

As for e-"sports"... I have exactly zero experience there, so no comment.

Thanks for taking the time to read and answer my question on the podcast! It is some comfort to hear that my anger and disappointment is not misplaced.

NCSOFT/Wildstar has since closed the support request (with the standard form asking whether I was satisfied with their customer support!) without any further answer, and both my fiancé and me have decided to keep our accounts deactivated and not to subscribe. I personally no longer feel inclined to recommend Wildstar Online to my friends either.

Saetha:

white_wolf:
If they split the a girl and boy team what they'll do is advertise the crap out of the men's team and make the women's team seem like pansies cuz they need to reinforce the whole girls aren't real gamers.

Its the difference between male and female ninja warrior you can tell where the real action is and the girls is so lame. They could combine the division just put up a wall girls on one side and men on the other you know if they're afraid of the women distracting the men in their normal T-shirts and hoodies this way both can just play and compete. It doesn't help about the rumors that girl e-gamers are picked only on looks instead of skill which also doesn't help. by putting up a cubical wall it prevents either side from harassing each other physically at least it would just be via voice chat if they even allow for that during the competition.

Err... admittedly I've only seen a few episodes of American Ninja Warrior, but don't they put the men and the women all in the same competition? I seem to recall catching an episode recently, where three or four men went up, and then a women went up, too. Doing the same course with the same obstacles with the same competitors. As a matter of fact, the only reason I watched the episode is because Ninja Warrior went to the Today show and made a big deal out of the fact that that night's episode was the first time a woman made the cut for the next round or something. Unless... are try-outs for the show divided by gender or something?

Though if I recall correctly, the original Ninja Warrior from Japan was divided by gender. For which I offer no excuse, but that's Japan.

As for e-"sports"... I have exactly zero experience there, so no comment.

Maybe I should've said Japanese? They title here just Ninja Warrior and for the recent US ver its American Ninja Warrior. But with the Japanese which was the one I referenced they have the main competition that is all spectical (especially the second section/round with fire, cool challenge pieces, and great camera shots)I've only seen one woman make it to this level and the trans woman made it several times but neither made it to round3. Its primarily about strength first balance second it has the most budget poured into it and while it is open to all so long as they can pass the primary physical challenge (not shown on TV) they're in 12 year old girls have tried out, a trans stunt woman, foreigners of all kinds men and women, and a very old man (looks to be in his 80's) you still don't get many women who will take this on it is however the real show between the two this main show is more considered the male show.

The woman show is very dainty its done in the off season balance of very stupid looking rigs is first and very little strength its done up soooo cheesy and its painful to watch not because the girls fall into nicer looking water its because how they've put this whole event together visually its painful to watch and its done up all about the silly if you're competing here it is implied this isn't the real deal its a pass the time sort of affair until the real show comes back later in the year.

Now in America it could change that perception but the one episode I caught of that made me think of that other American game show with the pads and such from like the 90's (forgot the name) but I've got no interest. I enjoy male Japanese ninja and admire the women and girls who take it on but really budget wise we know were the money is going, we know were the advertising for is the most heavily geared between the two events via the crowd (hint most spectators show for the mens), its in the presentation of the set and even the (voice over) announcers change their pitch and show us which event is the real vs time waster.

I'd hate them to repeat this with mens vs womens e-sports and given how gaming is about women its a high probability they'd set it up as womens sports get less and are the filler for when the mens sports can finally begin. Even if they tried to do both competitions at the same time like other sports I don't see them giving the same creds, spectical, and respect to the womens side as the mens thats why I said make it co-ed but just put up a cubical wall so both sexes can focus on the game rather then visual intimidation at least for the first year so viewers, announcers, and players can all just get use to the idea of everyone in the room is all competing then as the year or years go on remove that wall and if the players themselves vote a yes to it integrate them little by little until women and men are mixed every other seat and by that point no one will care its a co-ed sport because they were always together on stage from the start.

white_wolf:
Snip

Well... if it helps, the organization that was putting on the e-sports tournament actually revoked the rule excluding women from the male-only competition, so girls can compete in that, now. The female-only tournament is still on, though.

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yeah, they really dodged that bullet

E-sports "haters" are the same kind of people that make sociopathic comments on every uploaded Youtube video.

You know, the kind of people I'm being just as sociopathic to.

I don't see how lp's fit in with the transformative exemption for fair use. They're broadcasting the output of the code a dev wrote. If pewdie takes a right at an intersection in the game, it's because the code allows him to do so. What he's doing isn't changing the game.

 

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