Zero Punctuation: Shovel Knight - Good NES Nostalgia

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Shovel Knight - Good NES Nostalgia

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Shovel Knight.

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What clever usage of old gags to get our Zero Punctuation nostalgia higher.
Copy paste image of the script.
Bane's 2012 mask used to represent something unpleasant.
Fantasy World Dizzy mention.
And so on and so forth.

Still this seems a tad interesting. And didn't Papers, Please perform well commercially? Or is that just a reference to the marketing?

I'd argue that it's not nostalgia to like old things if the old things are doing stuff you want that new things don't. How many people still play old editions of D&D and Traveler because they provide the gameplay they want? Video games have less of that because remaking old games is usually fairly simple, but the sheer number of remakes that are little more than HD upgrades show that there are some things that are respected for quality rather than age.

Oh that treant soul...

And I'll agree, the magic spell items in the game really are overkill...the game's quite beatable without them (and nets you an achievement for doing so), but several sections are a LOT harder, especially without the 'briefly become completely intangible and invulnerable to all damage' and the 'dash forward at high speeds in mid air' spells.

Now I'm kind of curious which of the DSvania games Yahtzee likes best...knowing him, my best guess would be Ecclesia, since while it has flaws, it doesn't reek of unfufilled potential like Ruin (though Ruin has some great stages) and doesn't have Dawn of Sorrow's 'use contrived stylus gimick to kill boss or you have to fight it again' thing.

How about Divinity: Original Sin for the next review?

Aw, no mention of Butt Mode.
I am displeased.

"... on the NES in order to score nostalgia points with a cabal of fat neckbeards who haven't seen their winkies since 1989."

Christ, I don't like Moviebob either since the extended baby crying session that was the ASM2 "Review" (If you can call what is one of the most miserable examples of nostalgia whining about how the old days were so better available for free on the internet a "Review"), but still, let's have some standards.

Also, yay, positive Yahtzee review.

Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!

That is one of my favorite shows. :)

I've heard too many people praising Shovel Knight. Guess I'm going to have to give it a go.

Been watching this on Game Grumps. I didn't think much of it but might get it on sale if it's that good.

I like to watch classic film noir like The Big Sleep and Double Indemnity, but there's no way I'm nostalgic for them--they were made when my dad was still in diapers! I think it's a mark of a medium's maturity that there are older works that can still speak to today's society.

On that note, how much great art is also a work of nostalgia? Isn't Saving Private Ryan nostalgic (while simultaneously skewering that nostalgia)? Weren't the Ramones nostalgic for the simpler rock 'n' roll of the 50s and 60s in the face of huge arena rock show productions with string quartets and 10-minute keyboard solos? I grant that a lot of nostalgia can be indulgent tripe or shallow comfort food, but it's not impossible to make great art from it either.

A very good point. How is it nostalgia if you weren't there to experience it first time round. A similar thing could be said about old films, or for me at least, old music. Sure, modern music has superb production and sound quality and getting to hear it could never be easier. Yet I prefer to listen to older bands. The Beatles split up many years before I was born, and yet I still listen to them a lot. Similar things could be said about Queen, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, etc, etc.
But I digress. With games there would be a certain degree of nostalgia. Though I never had an NES, I was still able to play the one at my friends house. I got to play Mario's 1-3, Zelda, Megaman, Castlevania (but never Metroid) back when they were all brand spanking new. On a further note, my word did the NES have a strong stable of games back then?

ZZoMBiE13:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!

British comedy is practically half the air-time on his weekly Youtube show.

wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.

Clowndoe:

ZZoMBiE13:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!

British comedy is practically half the air-time on his weekly Youtube show.

I wasn't aware that he did a weekly YouTube show. All kinds of new information today.

What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?

Hm, this game looks actually good. Mac port isn't coming out for awhile, but the 3DS has a version of it. Can anyone tell me if it handles well on that platform?

bobdole1979:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.

Well, people tend to do reviews of games when they come out and it is kinda a high profile game. Also, Game Grumps does reviews?

ZZoMBiE13:

Clowndoe:

ZZoMBiE13:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!

British comedy is practically half the air-time on his weekly Youtube show.

I wasn't aware that he did a weekly YouTube show. All kinds of new information today.

Look for "Let's Drown Out", and you'll notice that Yahtzee has been slowly dragging points he made there into Zero Punctuation. Not a bad thing, just something to pick up on.

erttheking:
Hm, this game looks actually good. Mac port isn't coming out for awhile, but the 3DS has a version of it. Can anyone tell me if it handles well on that platform?

The 3DS port is smooth and awesome. No slowdown or glitches from what I've played. Everything's easy to see and as far as I know it's the exact same as the Wii U and Steam versions with the same music and stuff.

Dai Makai:

erttheking:
Hm, this game looks actually good. Mac port isn't coming out for awhile, but the 3DS has a version of it. Can anyone tell me if it handles well on that platform?

The 3DS port is smooth and awesome. No slowdown or glitches from what I've played. Everything's easy to see and as far as I know it's the exact same as the Wii U and Steam versions with the same music and stuff.

Thank you very much. *Pulls out debit card* I think I know how I'm spending my evening.

ZZoMBiE13:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!

Unless he's nostalgic about hating it. >.>

Falseprophet:
I like to watch classic film noir like The Big Sleep and Double Indemnity, but there's no way I'm nostalgic for them--they were made when my dad was still in diapers! I think it's a mark of a medium's maturity that there are older works that can still speak to today's society.

Depends on why you like them, I guess. I have a friend who's nostalgic for John Wayne movies, when Wayne died the year he was born. Frankly, he grew up on them. I grew up with the MArx Brothers, and while I think their comedies work on their own, I admit that a certain level of nostalgia goes into it. I've seen wrestling fans wax nostalgic for the Hulkamania era that died before they were born.

I mean, you can like them anyway, but that doesn't mean you're not nostalgic.

bobdole1979:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.

Indie games are notorious for buying everyone off.

OH GOD!
Can the miffed trifle please be a reoccurring bit?!
That face was absolutely hysterical! I'd buy a t-shirt with that little guy and the text "I'm a trifle miffed!"

The nostalgia bashing always makes me laugh. No, older games really ARE just better than the crap we get today.

I haven't laughed at a ZP this hard in quite some time...

It's quite a bizarre coincidence that Yahtzee has been playing the DS Castlevanias recently, seeing as I finished Order of Ecclesia myself yesterday. Halfway through a Normal Mode re-run for a second Master Ring now. I beat Portrait of Ruin back in late May/early June and I've had Dawn of Sorrow since 2008.

Makes me think of what Koji Igarashi will do next. I've heard there's some dispute about who actually owns the Castlevania franchise, so I'm hoping Iga can keep it and run with it on solo projects. Konami have really gone down the shitter as well. They were one of the classics, with Gradius, Contra (Probotector for me), Castlevania, Cybernator, Axelay and Pop'n Twinbee. I tried getting into MGS several times, but never could, and I always just went with Resident Evil, not Silent Hill. I had hoped to get the HD Version, but after hearing what Jim Sterling said about it, I decided to skip it.

Anyway, just a bit strange to think that "the industry" (< I hate that term) has changed so much and yet the insular Japanese developers are still failing to listen to any outside input after nearly 30 friggin' years. I mean, take Nintendo and "localisation" for example. We should have worldwide release dates by now, or at least release "weeks" where everyone gets a game within a few days of one another. Taking months for localisation is just a BS carryover relic of a practice that should be long dead by now.

I worry for the Japanese gaming industry. The world will be a dimmer place without it, but they really need to get their shit together.

Machine Man 1992:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?

PS1 onward was 3D. We want 2D.

I too hate the crusade to flee back to the NES, because the NES wasn't the pinnacle - the SNES was. When you make the decision to use pixel art instead of 3D - I expect at a MINIMUM that the graphics look SNES quality. These intentionally bad NES-caliber (or WORSE!) pixel graphics are just lazy.

orangeapples:

bobdole1979:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.

Well, people tend to do reviews of games when they come out and it is kinda a high profile game. Also, Game Grumps does reviews?

not like this haha. This is clearly a grass roots type of marketing. Basically give people who have a lot of influence in the gaming world ie youtubers money to play your game and talk about how awesome it is.

It's not a bad game but the face that EVERYONE is playing this little indie game at the same time is a bit suspect. Game Grumps tends not to do just released games unless they are paid same with Continue (and the fact that Continue did their first ever 2 part episdode)

It's pretty clear that Shovel knights marketing budget has all gone to this.

oh and in no way is Shovel Knight a high profile game. It's an indie game... that's it really

Look at this way when was the last time all these youtube channels happened to do the same game at the same time?

Edit; Don't get me wrong i'm not saying "ERRRR THEY SOLD OUT" or anything like that i just find it funny when marketing is so obvious. I mean hell give me $5 and Ill play your game on youtube and rave about it. Shovel Knight is a good game its just funny is all

Normally I don't comment on ZP since I figure that it'll get lost in all the slurry, but I felt like posting in response to that niggle that Yahtzee pointed-out:

Yes, bottomless pits are just as good of an instant-death mechanic as spikes are when you have the spikes at the very bottom of the screen. However, what you cannot do with a bottomless pit is create a narrow path that needs to be jumped through, or a wall of death that needs to be avoided. Spikes are basically a mechanic that lets the level designer say "Don't go here or you die" in a manner that offers more flexibility than putting a bunch of pits all over the level.

As such, I would argue that they are just as valid here as they were in Mega Man where the spikes gained their infamy.

Thanatos2k:

Machine Man 1992:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?

PS1 onward was 3D. We want 2D.

I too hate the crusade to flee back to the NES, because the NES wasn't the pinnacle - the SNES was. When you make the decision to use pixel art instead of 3D - I expect at a MINIMUM that the graphics look SNES quality. These intentionally bad NES-caliber (or WORSE!) pixel graphics are just lazy.

Indeed. SNES graphics are the shit, even by today's standards. Nice, clean, colorful, and detailed (ideally).

And then there's 2.5D graphics; I for one, actually like the freaky effect they create.

Ephidel:
Anyway, just a bit strange to think that "the industry" (< I hate that term) has changed so much and yet the insular Japanese developers are still failing to listen to any outside input after nearly 30 friggin' years. I mean, take Nintendo and "localisation" for example. We should have worldwide release dates by now, or at least release "weeks" where everyone gets a game within a few days of one another. Taking months for localisation is just a BS carryover relic of a practice that should be long dead by now.

Localization requires time. Worldwide release dates merely means they're holding off on releasing a finished product until the slowest localization teams finish, as opposed to releasing the game when it's done where it's done, and not holding back releases for unrelated development cycles.

Beat it down, Sir? Alright, the usual routine. Allow me to fetch the sunday mallet, Sir.

I wonder what would be a nostalgia product for me. Probably some high-res re-release (rererererere...) of Operation Flashpoint or somesuch.

Machine Man 1992:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?

Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year

bobdole1979:
-snip-

Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.

How in the hell did no reference to THIS not find its way into the review? I was waiting for it, but sadly it never came.

Lotet:

bobdole1979:
-snip-

Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.

i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.

I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.

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