Zero Punctuation: Shovel Knight - Good NES Nostalgia

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step1999:

Machine Man 1992:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?

Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year

Do I have to get it off steam? Because my computer can't handle half the shit that get released nowadays.

Complaining about uninteresting indie titles when Transistor came out two months ago and you completely ignored it.

I'm in pain.

Machine Man 1992:

step1999:

Machine Man 1992:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?

Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year

Do I have to get it off steam? Because my computer can't handle half the shit that get released nowadays.

Yeah, it's from steam. It was on sale for 2.00 a few days ago. I hear some other players have performance issues with it, although it runs fine for me. Captcha: string along

bobdole1979:

Lotet:

bobdole1979:
-snip-

Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.

i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.

I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.

Well, with the Continue guys at least, one of them was just friends with one of the developers and got a free copy.

In the case of Game Grumps, you might already know that Egoraptor likes the old classics. As seen with sequalitis. He says he was anticipating the release of the game. That sounds appropriate.

Yatzee gave his reason.

bobdole1979:
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.

I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.

Well, to be fair, it's possible they all backed it on Kickstarter so they were all hyped to play it long before release, and they all jumped on it as soon as it was out. I know my youtube video making friend did just that.

Lotet:

bobdole1979:

Lotet:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.

i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.

I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.

Well, with the Continue guys at least, one of them was just friends with one of the developers and got a free copy.

In the case of Game Grumps, you might already know that Egoraptor likes the old classics. As seen with sequalitis. He says he was anticipating the release of the game. That sounds appropriate.

Arin was a kickstarter backer of it as well.

Back to the spikes bit, I actually havn't had much of a problem with them due to the game giving you that phase bracelet early on in the game. If it looks like you're going to hit a spike, use it and you can walk on them while the effect lasts. Usually plenty of time to get another jump off to safety.

I'll leave this awesomeness here, for Shovelry.

Also getting really sick of there always being one guy that says that anyone praising this game is getting cash enemas. Its a new game, its doing well, and its a great game amidst so many craptacular ones that have come from kickstarter/pride themselves on being nostalgia bait.

So you are probably gonna see people review it/LPing it. Do you throw a similar rustled jimmy jamboree when Dark Souls 2 came out and every one was playing that too?

Evonisia:

ZZoMBiE13:

Clowndoe:

British comedy is practically half the air-time on his weekly Youtube show.

I wasn't aware that he did a weekly YouTube show. All kinds of new information today.

Look for "Let's Drown Out", and you'll notice that Yahtzee has been slowly dragging points he made there into Zero Punctuation. Not a bad thing, just something to pick up on.

Cool, I'll look for it.

Thank you. :)

Lotet:

bobdole1979:

Lotet:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.

i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.

I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.

Well, with the Continue guys at least, one of them was just friends with one of the developers and got a free copy.

In the case of Game Grumps, you might already know that Egoraptor likes the old classics. As seen with sequalitis. He says he was anticipating the release of the game. That sounds appropriate.

Yatzee gave his reason.

yes Yatze gave his "reason" I have no doubt that Contiunie and Game Grumps have met the developers and are friends with them. That doesn't mean for a second they haven't been paid to advertise it

I haven't been watching Twitch but i'm willing to bet some of the big twitch players were playing it as well.

This is the new way of marketing to gamers and you are going to see more and more of it.

KoudelkaMorgan:
I'll leave this awesomeness here, for Shovelry.

Also getting really sick of there always being one guy that says that anyone praising this game is getting cash enemas. Its a new game, its doing well, and its a great game amidst so many craptacular ones that have come from kickstarter/pride themselves on being nostalgia bait.

So you are probably gonna see people review it/LPing it. Do you throw a similar rustled jimmy jamboree when Dark Souls 2 came out and every one was playing that too?

you completley missed the point. There is nothing wrong with marketing a game this way it's also how the youtubers and twitch players make a living.

When you have Youtubers such as Continue and Game grumps who very rarely do new games when they are released it's usually a sign they made some cash off of it. Like I said its not wrong and Shovel Knight is a Good Game (SEE I"M PRAISING THE GAME) it's just obvious.

this is going to be the new way of marketing for gamers especially when it comes to indie games.

Think of it this way Companies pay a LOT of money to put their products in movies.. Does that make the movie bad? no of course not.

Shovel Knight paid youtubers to play their game/review it. Does that make the game bad? No it doesn't.

Frozen Grandparents Tetris? Why has no one thought of that before Yahtzee did for one and two, can we get a Kickstarter for that going?

I've also been playing the old Castlevania games on DS. I haven't encountered the Treant soul thing yet though, so I'm guessing it isn't in Dawn of Sorrow (the only one I've played to near-completion).

So... how about a Transistor review? ^^ Maybe a Transistor/Abyss Odyssey twofer?

bobdole1979:

you completley missed the point. There is nothing wrong with marketing a game this way it's also how the youtubers and twitch players make a living.

When you have Youtubers such as Continue and Game grumps who very rarely do new games when they are released it's usually a sign they made some cash off of it. Like I said its not wrong and Shovel Knight is a Good Game (SEE I"M PRAISING THE GAME) it's just obvious.

this is going to be the new way of marketing for gamers especially when it comes to indie games.

Think of it this way Companies pay a LOT of money to put their products in movies.. Does that make the movie bad? no of course not.

Shovel Knight paid youtubers to play their game/review it. Does that make the game bad? No it doesn't.

Ugh... I hate people who say things like this. Because what you are saying is mere speculation and borderlines on conspiracy theorist. You have no proof that any of these people were paid by the publisher to review it. Nor do I that says otherwise but the basis of "OMG everyone is playing it, therefore they must be paid to be doing it" is an incredibly strange conclusion. At most it's because the game is a hotcake, people WANT to see it. Therefore, the producers of content are meeting that interest. THAT'S how youtubers and twitch players make a living.

You also should know that this is an indie game. They don't have a budget to pay people willy-nilly. Even if they had leftover kickstarter money. The best they can do is give demos out to garner interest. This "new way of marketing" is hardly even feasible to the indie scene.

When new games come out that are actually good, people play them. It's simple as that. There may be a bunch of let's plays on Shovel Knight but all of them being paid by the publisher/dev makes that even less likely.

Not only that but saying they are getting paid to review games the way that you are is not good. It's dragging their reputation through the mud. If you say someone was doing something but was paid to do so you immediately start questioning their motive and their reliability. The quality of the game takes a backseat to these damning claims. Plus it also makes the devs look shady. It's a dick move, bro.

FightingFurball:
How about Divinity: Original Sin for the next review?

That's what I was hoping for, but this review doesn't even give the impression that he could be aware of its existence.

VyseRogueKing:

bobdole1979:

snip.

snipsnip.

hold on are you actually saying that Gamegrumps and twitch streamers DON"T take money from companies to play their games on release????

Thunderous Cacophony:
I'd argue that it's not nostalgia to like old things if the old things are doing stuff you want that new things don't. How many people still play old editions of D&D and Traveler because they provide the gameplay they want? Video games have less of that because remaking old games is usually fairly simple, but the sheer number of remakes that are little more than HD upgrades show that there are some things that are respected for quality rather than age.

I quite highly agree with this. There's very few games these days I'm willing to get because so many are pushing for whats "IN" and cool right now, and a lot of that stuff may be good for the wow factor, but its not always fun. So I'm finding myself more often replaying things like old gamecube games, or browsing my ps2 collection, etc.

bobdole1979:
-snip-

heaven forbid people play a game that was kickstarted and looked interesting and actually came out. I get the whole "lol paid off, 's "obvious" " stance......but even if some people aren't interested.........landscapes kinda barren right now, cause "marketing" says summer doesn't work. so what are bored reviewers and LPers gonna do? *shrugs*

When I recently bought myself a PS3, one of the first things I picked up for it was the HD collection boxes of the Big Three from the PS2, on the grounds that I never owned a PS2 as a kid and wanted to make up for lost time. And I have no shame at all in saying that the original Sly Cooper was pretty damn mediocre, but Sly 2 is probably one of the best stealth games I've ever played. It's a great example of how to expand on a game in the sequel without bloating it,[1] though with the current method of making sequels being 'hold stuff back for DLC', even a bloated sequel like Jak 2 feels better than most other recent games.

So no, I'd say that it's entirely possible to like old things without just being nostalgic.

[1] See also Devil May Cry 3, one of the best action games of all time.

Slegiar Dryke:

bobdole1979:
-snip-

heaven forbid people play a game that was kickstarted and looked interesting and actually came out. I get the whole "lol paid off, 's "obvious" " stance......but even if some people aren't interested.........landscapes kinda barren right now, cause "marketing" says summer doesn't work. so what are bored reviewers and LPers gonna do? *shrugs*

did you seriously not even read what i wrote? or are you actually saying that several major youtubers who only play old games suddently all decided at the same time to play the same game at the same time something they havent done before?

how do you think that Gamegrumps make most of their money? Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.

Or are you suggesting this is the first ever Kickstarted game that was really good and everyone just wants to play it at the same time even though they have never done anything like it before.... well except when they were paid to like Gamegrumps playing World of Planes...

IT"S OK TO DO THIS. Like i said you will see this happening more and more often with twitch streamers ( you don't think Totalbiscut played all those games because he liked them) and youtubers

But please tell me what the last game Gamegrumps played on the day it came out?

Unless you personally feel that it is wrong then the issue is with you.

bobdole1979:

Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.

...What?

bobdole1979:

hold on are you actually saying that Gamegrumps and twitch streamers DON"T take money from companies to play their games on release????

Wow... way to address literally none of my points. Especially when one of the first things I said is that NEITHER of us can know one way or the other unless definitive evidence is brought forth. The evidence you use is shaky. This tells me one of 2 things.

1) You are so set in your stance that you infallibly believe that people all get paid behind everyone's backs without a shred of information backing it besides speculation. Completely disregarding any and all points to the contrary. This, I believe, is not the case.

2) The more likely, since I don't think someone could be that thick, is that you are trolling. Big time. This again can be seen through your bizarre points and blanketing everyone with the same argument regardless of whether or not them playing is a coincidence. Plus that "Disney bought them" is a huge red light. You are willing to drag people's professional reputations through the mud just to incite the masses and that's not cool.

Good day, sir.

VyseRogueKing:

bobdole1979:

Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.

...What?

ummm you don't even know that Disney bought the Game Grumps... seriouly? wow if you don't even know that then you shouldn't be in this conversation.

"Grind for the Treant soul"? Oh dear. Yeah, soul-grinding in [X] of Sorrow is a miserable business indeed. I recall Treant being a particularly nasty one, as the game doesn't like the idea of you getting your magic back easily.

In answer to your last 2 questions: no and no.

bobdole1979:

VyseRogueKing:

bobdole1979:

Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.

...What?

ummm you don't even know that Disney bought the Game Grumps... seriouly? wow if you don't even know that then you shouldn't be in this conversation.

No "what" as in they didn't buy Game Grumps. They bought the company they have a contract with. That literally changes nothing about them. A contract doesn't change when the owner is bought out. It may be open for review or maybe even cut off but it won't be changed outright. Maybe I should have specified.

But thanks for ignoring the entirety of my post for one word when the issue is not about Game Grumps in particular. That furthers my point that you be trollin' and I seriously shouldn't have even bothered with this post to humor you.

Silentpony:
OH GOD!
Can the miffed trifle please be a reoccurring bit?!
That face was absolutely hysterical! I'd buy a t-shirt with that little guy and the text "I'm a trifle miffed!"

YES!!! That, Gandalf crapping out potions, the cat wearing a Bane mask, the knight's head popping off from just touching a spike, today's episode had so much hilarious imagery! i would also like to see more "Pixelated Yahtzee" in the future.

captcha: Faster Internet
Faster, Internet. Faster! Bring me more time-wasting goodies!

I want it for my Wii-U but it's not out here yet >_<

It looks really fun and I haven't played a game like it for a good while.

VyseRogueKing:

bobdole1979:

VyseRogueKing:

...What?

ummm you don't even know that Disney bought the Game Grumps... seriouly? wow if you don't even know that then you shouldn't be in this conversation.

No "what" as in they didn't buy Game Grumps. They bought the company they have a contract with. That literally changes nothing about them. A contract doesn't change when the owner is bought out. It may be open for review or maybe even cut off but it won't be changed outright. Maybe I should have specified.

But thanks for ignoring the entirety of my post for one word when the issue is not about Game Grumps in particular. That furthers my point that you be trollin' and I seriously shouldn't have even bothered with this post to humor you.

yes I did ignore your "points" because there is a much bigger issue here that you lack a basic understanding of how things work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcOEA3fJ390

yeah Disney did BUY game grumps. But hey don't take my word for it. As soon as you acknowledge reality I can move on to your "points"

I was actually thinking about this game. I guess I'll go get it now.

With your powers combined, I am SHOVEL KNIGHT!
Reminds me of Cave Story.

Was I the only constantly getting a trifle miffed over Yahtzee's thorn in the side of "NES can't parallax scroll"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltuRuGM271Q

I don't know how Shovel Knight does it, but the NES could totally Parallax.

Bought it. Looks fun, I just have to find a controller that is compatible with the damn pc version.

Clowndoe:

ZZoMBiE13:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!

British comedy is practically half the air-time on his weekly Youtube show.

Well technically it makes up all of the airtime...

A Red Dwarf reference and a dig at the xenophobic Australian government all in one episode. I like.

bobdole1979:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.

Not really, the game just had the luxury of being a relatively new (and actually finished) indie game released during the summer game drought.

Two-A:

bobdole1979:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.

Not really, the game just had the luxury of being a relatively new (and actually finished) indie game released during the summer game drought.

and you think that explains why shows like Game Grumps and Continue? who don't play new games unless they sponsor them are playing this?
you understand that summer drought is meaningless to Gamegrumps an dContinue right?

I can't think of a single time Continue played a game on a current gen system can you?

"Is it still nostalgia if you replay old games not to relive happier memories long past, but because old stuff does stuff ya want that new stuff doesn't do?"

It isn't. Heck, that's actually a lot of the basis for so-called "nostalgia fanboys": they find that newer stuff isn't really scratching a particular gameplay itch. For instance, the Metroidvanias I play NOT because I grew up with them but because they really give a sense of exploration I feel that too many games lack these days, including the so-called "sandboxes" that can best be described as dropping the player into and then knocking off for lunch or just making the overworld a boring, tedious commute instead of a living, breathing setting where you can get familiar with it and learn your way around.

Another is Mario due to the fact that "AAA" gaming seems to have nothing but contempt for the platformer genre, whether 2D or 3D. Heck, Nintendo as a whole can count as that; RPGs with rich worlds to explore, platformers that offer amazing level design, action games with a sense of accomplishment and thrill, adventures that truly feel like you're on a journey, stuff like that. Most of the games that are hyped nowadays turn out to be disposable; you have fun for a few hours, but you forget about what you did as soon as you're finished. That's not how gaming should be.

Furthermore, the comment about release cycles due to graphics I find to be a false argument. If anything dev cycles aren't long ENOUGH, it's why so many games seem to be getting more and more homogenized and disposable. They aren't special or eventful as they used to be, unlike something that comes out only once in a generation such as Zelda, Mario, Fire Emblem, Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Metroid, Mario Kart, etc; a game that comes out every now and again as opposed to yearly or bi-yearly is going to be more special and interesting. It's unfortunately going to take something shocking for developers to realize that

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