Escapist Podcast - Comics and Cosplay: 012: The Case For Wonder Woman And Ms. Marvel Movies

012: The Case For Wonder Woman And Ms. Marvel Movies

Aquaman is getting a movie! But... why? Inhumans are getting a movie! But... who? These questions, plus the lack of women-centered superhero films, the sudden surge in comics buying, the survival of comic shops in the digital age, and just how lovable Vin Diesel is are all discussed on this week's Comics and Cosplay podcast.

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lets start with the marketing thing. disney itself markets about 90% to girls. they bought both marvel and lucas films so they have something to market to boys. so if they skimp on the girl merchandise on those properties, i think it's ok.

now for the female led comic movie. everyone seems to demand one of these studios release a female led movie asap without taking into account the studios plan. marvel has had a plan since day one which is to build a universe, literally. and to do that they need to do certain thing and go certain places (outside of america, space, and magic places). the most well know marvel woman don't occupy those spaces. i fully believe that marvel has a female led movie coming within the next 5 years, haven't they earned our trust by now? as for dc, they just need to prove they can do something besides batman and superman. and if aquaman gives them the best chances in their mind to do that, than they should do that. and i get it, as a black male i would love to see a black panther movie or just to see more black people in lead roles besides slave, madia, and racial comedy movies. but the most important thing to me is a good movie. lets look at sony. they said they'll have a female led hero movie in 2017. no one seems to be all to excited about that because of the horrible job they're doing with spiderman, but they are going to be first. and that movie will join the ranks of electra and catwoman as horrible comic movies that are led by women. do you really want that list to grow and people will have an excuse not to make anymore? just give the studios time to make a plan. in the meanwhile, watch the jessica jones netflix series that's coming out after daredevil. it's in the mcu.

Ross,

I enjoy the podcast, but maybe throw segments to the other people more. Maybe let Marla explain the news story or maybe wait to give your opinion until after other people have weighed in. You tend to dominate the conversation. You tell the news and so thoroughly discuss your opinion that it leave the other people to merely agree with you and then you move on to the next topic and repeat. I have listened to ever comics and cosplay podcast and news and tv podcast since they started. So obviously I enjoy it. I have also started reading and collecting the comics you have mentioned. So read this as constructive criticism please.

Love,

Josh

bdcjacko:
Ross,

I enjoy the podcast, but maybe throw segments to the other people more. Maybe let Marla explain the news story or maybe wait to give your opinion until after other people have weighed in. You tend to dominate the conversation. You tell the news and so thoroughly discuss your opinion that it leave the other people to merely agree with you and then you move on to the next topic and repeat. I have listened to ever comics and cosplay podcast and news and tv podcast since they started. So obviously I enjoy it. I have also started reading and collecting the comics you have mentioned. So read this as constructive criticism please.

Love,

Josh

Seconded.

Also I wanted to add that there it is a difficult matter to make a female lead super hero movie, and no matter how many times you insist it's easy, the fact of the matter is that movies don't exist in a vacuum. There have been plenty of awful female lead super hero movies over the years, each worst than the last, and when you talk to a studio about creating a new one, it's obvious why they have reservations. It isn't a simple issue, and I'm not saying that as some men's rights activist, I would love to see a Kamala Kahn movie, but incidentally I also think that she's one of the few female characters in comics that's been written well.

I'm gonna say this and I'm not sure if I'm alone in this but I don't think I am. Wonder Woman is a boooooooring character, with a boooooooring back story. She may have had a few good runs in the comic and cartoon world at one time or another, but frankly I have yet to have someone recommend to me a wonder woman comic as a "must read." Ms. Marvel is a must read

right now, I'm interested in what I've heard about the new bat girl. But Wonder Woman? I really can't picture a movie that would be faithful to the comic and still not boooooooring. I especially think that the 100000% wrong reason to make this movie would to one up marvel for not having made a woman lead movie.

If you want to prove me wrong, don't tell me how sexist the industry is being and sell me a Wonder Woman movie I might want to see! I would love to see some female lead super hero movies get made, really, I want our hobby to be as inclusive as possible, but I just don't see Wonder Woman bridging that gap in this day and age.

One thing that I keep thinking when a Wonder Woman movie is announced is the reactions the studio has scene so far between picking Gal Gadot and what happened at Comic Con this year with the first images of Wonder Woman's costume. Now I think that is the reaction by what they consider their "core audience", but those reactions are going to make them pause.

I think they probably do have a Wonder Woman movie in the works, but I think they are going to wait and announce it until after Batman v. Superman and see how that iteration of the character works out, for they might scrap current plans and make changes such as with the Hulk movies.

Arguments that are basically "I want something because it sounds cool / will increase gender diversity" will always fail when countered with "I want to do something because the evidence shows it will make more money". If a toy store is ordering toys for boys and they have a choice between male characters (which boys or their parents will buy) and female character (which boys or their parents may not buy) they're going to chose 100% male characters simply because they're the safest way to make the most money.

As there have been several bad superheroine movies in the past any new movie with a female lead will result in low expectations, which translated into low box office returns. So no sane company would make a superheroine movie when a superhero movie will make more money. As the best way of getting a superheroine movie that people might actually want to see is to make a superhero movie that contains a superheroine, then make a spin-off movie featuring this superheroine it would be better to let DC make their movie "Batman vs Superman (featuring Wonder Woman)", then wait for the Wonder Woman spin-off.

Given that women are already going to see comic book movies it seems that they don't need other women to hold their hand when they decide what they want to watch. So there's no need to change comics to make them more inclusive for women (especially if it makes these comics less appealing to their current fanbase).

jaibryan:
lets start with the marketing thing. disney itself markets about 90% to girls. they bought both marvel and lucas films so they have something to market to boys. so if they skimp on the girl merchandise on those properties, i think it's ok.

Except for the fact that fans of female characters, regardless of gender, are left without an option. Additionally, they always talk about wanting to grow their audience, and their sales, yet they repeatedly leave out the characters that have the best shot of growing it.

uanime5:
Arguments that are basically "I want something because it sounds cool / will increase gender diversity" will always fail when countered with "I want to do something because the evidence shows it will make more money". If a toy store is ordering toys for boys and they have a choice between male characters (which boys or their parents will buy) and female character (which boys or their parents may not buy) they're going to chose 100% male characters simply because they're the safest way to make the most money.

Except that female led movies have already proven they can make money. Additionally, like was said during the podcast, if you never/rarely make female character toys, you won't sell any, and thus are fulfilling your own prophecy. How do you grow your audience, if you continuously tell half the population you don't care about marketing to them?

I gotta say, I like the podcast but I am constantly wincing when the host feels the need to make a big deal about how obscure or weird a character of bit of comic history is. I understand wanting to make it friendly to people who aren't familiar with a particular corner, or just not knowing some random area of comic book knowledge, but it often comes across as apologetic or even somewhat derisive.

Like, hey, the Inhumans are weird. But they, as well as the Terrigan Mists, have played major parts in some big stories (the huge Earth X and its follow-ups, recent major in-universe Marvel events, a few huge Marvel cosmic events the Guardians of the Galaxy got tied into, etc.). I'm not being the nerd guy who says everybody has to have heard of them, just that as someone who has it is somewhat off putting to hear "oh yeah they're not even C-list and you'll never guess what this mist stuff is called" and the like. Maybe it wouldn't stand out if it was the first time, I don't know, but this example prompted me to at least make a minor complaint.

In any case, fun show.

Brian Sperduto:
Except that female led movies have already proven they can make money.

Money from who exactly? Are boys buying any of the toys from these female lead movies? If not then this proves that female lead movies mainly appeal to girls.

Additionally, like was said during the podcast, if you never/rarely make female character toys, you won't sell any, and thus are fulfilling your own prophecy.

What is your point? If you produce a small number of female character toys and they don't sell then why would anyone want to produce a large number of toys that won't sell? Basic economics shows that if something is rare and in demand then its value will rapidly increase, so if the female character toys were rare and popular you'd see them being sold on ebay for thousands of dollars. The fact that this isn't happening indicates that the female character toys are not popular and that the toy makers are right to only make a few of them.

How do you grow your audience, if you continuously tell half the population you don't care about marketing to them?

It's marketing 101 to make a product that appeals to a specific audience, rather than trying to make something that appeals to everyone. This is because what appeals to one group generally won't appeal to another group, so a product that's meant to appeal to everyone almost always becomes bland because it lacks the things specific groups like. That's why they don't add romance to action movies to make them more appealing to women.

If a company wants to appeal to girls it would be better to make toys targeted at girls, rather than trying to make boy's toys appeal to both genders.

 

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