What Male Game Developers Think of #GamerGate

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What Male Game Developers Think of #GamerGate

Game developers have a lot to say about the Gamergate controversy.

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Just an FYI, I think the formatting went nutters on Daniel Vavra's interview.

Otherwise, I think my productive levels just dropped today. This is a really interesting article with interviews.

EDIT:

Just some awesome quotes. Interviews are awesome, reading them is a good look into the Dev's world.

Crown Daemond -

"Are you or developers you know changing their interactions with gamers or press as a result of GamerGate?

We haven't really communicated with gamers much before this point because our company is still in its infancy but GamerGate has shown that gamers react well to being treated with respect, as obvious as that statement might seem."

So absolutely true.

James Covenant -

"If you have concerns with the press, what could the press do to improve relations with you?

Perhaps the press should refrain from labeling games as "racist," "sexist," or "homophobic." Such accusations are very damaging to the game's creator(s) and may not accurately reflect their intentions."

Rougestar -

"[Ed: RogueStar later informed The Escapist that he would like to have his interview presented on the record under his real name as a statement of commitment to #GamerGate.]"

Holy shit man. I might just go buy someones game tonight.

Xbro - (His interview is great)

"What is your reaction to this sentiment, expressed in Gamasutra: "Gamers are over. That's why they're so mad."

It was laughable. I laughed. My colleagues laughed. Then we realized it wasn't a joke, and then it became just sad. We felt angry, some more than other. Most of us didn't even bother reading the entire article once we realized what it was. But we knew for certain that gamers out there would not stand for that kind of absurdity. And boy, were we right."

Glaive -

"But I didn't toe the party line. All the articles coming out saying that the term "gamer" was dead, I thought that they were obviously total bullshit. When I came out in support of GamerGate I was greeted with with some odd comments-I would "regret" turning my back on them, stuff like that-and a long ominous silence since then. These were guys that had been chatting with me for years and I have not heard a peep from almost any of them since."

A guy who calls himself "Xbro" is opposed to discussions about feminism? Color me surprised!

The link for the george reese comment (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/features/www.everyjoe.com/2014/10/06/news/dell-george-reese-compares-gamergate-supporters-to-isis/) is incorrect and pulls a 404 error. Just wanted to give a heads up.

OT: I really like the layout of this a lot more than the first one. It makes it a lot less of a slog with the little blurbs and that read more function. It's also nice to see there's more variety in the opinions this time around. It's almost like more people are looking deeper into the issue. :P

Things like these are real problems; we need journalists to treat developers equally and focus on how good the games they make are, not their stance on social issues.

I'm sorry, but if your social issue stance is shitty, I DO want to know about it because I will make sure that I will boycott/avoid your game, however good it is.

I'm not for blacklisting, but I do want to know if you're socially responsible.

flying_whimsy:
The link for the george reese comment (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/features/www.everyjoe.com/2014/10/06/news/dell-george-reese-compares-gamergate-supporters-to-isis/) is incorrect and pulls a 404 error. Just wanted to give a heads up.

This has been fixed.

thethird0611:
Just an FYI, I think the formatting went nutters on Daniel Vavra's interview.

Otherwise, I think my productive levels just dropped today. This is a really interesting article with interviews.

Should be fixed, thanks for the heads up!

That Brad Wardell interview was enlightening.

He goes through the same garbage ZQ goes through, if not worse (rape accusations are a LOT more serious than "She slept with some people") and Kotaku and others gang up on him and issue no apology or support when it turned out to be bullshit.

This is why I support #GamerGate

TheMadJack:

Things like these are real problems; we need journalists to treat developers equally and focus on how good the games they make are, not their stance on social issues.

I'm sorry, but if your social issue stance is shitty, I DO want to know about it because I will make sure that I will boycott/avoid your game, however good it is.

I'm not for blacklisting, but I do want to know if you're socially responsible.

Even if the product they produce has nothing to do with these social issues?

It seems the equivalent of refusing to listen to Wagner because of his anti-Semitism. You can refuse to listen to his music based on his views on Judaism but you'll be missing out on some sublime pieces of art. Art should be appreciated on its own merit, not on it's creator's reputation.

Not to mention that often the largest games often have hundreds of people working on them. Do the private views of one man spoil their collective effort?

secretsantaone:

TheMadJack:

Things like these are real problems; we need journalists to treat developers equally and focus on how good the games they make are, not their stance on social issues.

I'm sorry, but if your social issue stance is shitty, I DO want to know about it because I will make sure that I will boycott/avoid your game, however good it is.

I'm not for blacklisting, but I do want to know if you're socially responsible.

Even if the product they produce has nothing to do with these social issues?

It seems the equivalent of refusing to listen to Wagner because of his anti-Semitism. You can refuse to listen to his music based on his views on Judaism but you'll be missing out on some sublime pieces of art. Art should be appreciated on its own merit, not on it's creator's reputation.

Not to mention that often the largest games often have hundreds of people working on them. Do the private views of one man spoil their collective effort?

I personally try to separate the artist from their work, but it can be hard to do for some people and I can respect boycotting under the notion that you don't want to support the creator for "X" reason. I won't refrain from watching/playing/reading Earthworm Jim or Ender's Game because the creators are homophobes, but I can understand why someone would.

Two Interviews read:

Brad Wardell sounds like a professional. He has many good points. But he is obviously biased in favor of Gamergate.

Greg Costikyan's first page reads like a troll. Sorry, but that's it. I can't tell in which cases he is serious and in which he jokes. But his point about publishers being the ones who are responsible for corruption is imo correct.
Second page is better.

A mountain lies before me, but I will read everything! Bury me under a tree, next to a PC, should I perish while reading.

it will of course take me some time to read through but for the intent and the sheer effort i can't praise you all enough :)

the silence:
Two Interviews read:

Brad Wardell sounds like a professional. He has many good points. But he is obviously biased in favor of Gamergate.

Greg Costikyan's first page reads like a troll. Sorry, but that's it. I can't tell in which cases he is serious and in which he jokes. But his point about publishers being the ones who are responsible for corruption is imo correct.
Second page is better.

A mountain lies before me, but I will read everything! Bury me under a tree, next to a PC, should I perish while reading.

Brad has a reason to be biased considering what kind of shit he got from video game "journalists"

the silence:
Brad Wardell sounds like a professional. He has many good points. But he is obviously biased in favor of Gamergate.

Well of course he would be biased. Shitty journalism almost ruined his life.

blalien:
A guy who calls himself "Xbro" is opposed to discussions about feminism? Color me surprised!

If by feminism you mean discrimination against white males and by discussion you mean cutting any discussion at its knees then sure.

Archon and the Escapist pulling themselves above other sites, walking the walk as opposed to just talking.

Cant say gamergate has not done some real positive things, this site in particular.

Just skimmed it all, thanks for representing all sides.

It was a nice read overall, let's hope with enough mixed coverage might have an effect on Wikipedia that it might be mixed aswell.. Rather than the smear-piece it is currently.

the silence:

Brad Wardell sounds like a professional. He has many good points. But he is obviously biased in favor of Gamergate.

I'd be too if I was a dev who'd almost lost his career and life over the websites now opposing Gamergate for much the same false reasons they made attack-pieces on him.

This is a little depressing. Not because some developers support #GamerGate, but because it addresses the concept that tag's supposedly all about: biases in media coverage (and why this is strictly about gaming journalism I'm not sure - maybe more prevalent/noticeable there?). It's a thing that happens in one form or another in pretty much all journalism; people have their views and those views will impact what they do and don't cover. You can mitigate it, but you can't really erase it. You have a limited amount of space and time to report on events, so you have to pick and choose which events you report. You simply can't do it all.

What's depressing is these interviews suggest the kind of discussion we COULD HAVE about this topic if both sides weren't completely flooded with trolling and hate for the other, overwhelming any attempt at sane and civil conversation by spamming it up with insults and strawmen and self-righteous crap.

Frustrating.

Shjade:
This is a little depressing. Not because some developers support #GamerGate, but because it addresses the concept that tag's supposedly all about: biases in media coverage (and why this is strictly about gaming journalism I'm not sure - maybe more prevalent/noticeable there?). It's a thing that happens in one form or another in pretty much all journalism; people have their views and those views will impact what they do and don't cover. You can mitigate it, but you can't really erase it. You have a limited amount of space and time to report on events, so you have to pick and choose which events you report. You simply can't do it all.

What's depressing is these interviews suggest the kind of discussion we COULD HAVE about this topic if both sides weren't completely flooded with trolling and hate for the other, overwhelming any attempt at sane and civil conversation by spamming it up with insults and strawmen and self-righteous crap.

Frustrating.

GamerGate is about ethics in journalism and you're upset that they are discussing...ethics in journalism?

I just want to say how happy I am with the way the Escapist has handled this issue. Really showing that good gaming journalism is not only possible but also a great thing. Thank you for doing this and keep on being awesome :).

blalien:
A guy who calls himself "Xbro" is opposed to discussions about feminism? Color me surprised!

What does feminism have to do with making fun games?

Next to Nothing. Which is the point he's making. What it really does is distract from fun games. I mean seriously. do you think most gamers care what gender their avatar is? Most don't care or give a damn...I mean look at rumble roses a game where the audience mostly guys mind you spend their time playing as busty buxom scantily clad women. Look at Metroid, Tomb Raider, DOA, Parasite Eve, and a host of other games...dudes play girls. Heck half the female characters in any MMO are played by male players.

It's ludo-tranvestism. Straight men playing as women in games.. I mean that kinda says a lot about the average male gamer.. that they are okay with being a girl in the game...so long as they can kick ass and have fun doing it. Which translates to... they are about as gender-unbiased as you can get. V? P? Don't care so long as I get to Spiral Dragon Punch someone through a semi-truck.

The fact that you more or less base your critique around his name...well says more about your own biases and assumptions than his.

Thorn14:
GamerGate is about ethics in journalism and you're upset that they are discussing...ethics in journalism?

No. I'm upset that they say they're about ethics in journalism while mostly flaming and trolling people and not discussing ethics in journalism, which isn't 100% their fault in that they're often baited into more flaming and trolling by anti-GG folks' own trolling and flaming, such that all #GamerGate is about is being a dick, regardless which side of the tag you're on.

The goal is worthwhile. The tag, simply because of how it started and how it's been consumed by the shitstorm, is useless for anything other than picking a fight. That's my problem with it.

I would just like to add that one of these devs came at me, unprovoked, on twitter: https://twitter.com/eagseagle/status/520323038622277634

Shjade:

Thorn14:
GamerGate is about ethics in journalism and you're upset that they are discussing...ethics in journalism?

No. I'm upset that they say they're about ethics in journalism while mostly flaming and trolling people and not discussing ethics in journalism, which isn't 100% their fault in that they're often baited into more flaming and trolling by anti-GG folks' own trolling and flaming, such that all #GamerGate is about is being a dick, regardless which side of the tag you're on.

The goal is worthwhile. The tag, simply because of how it started and how it's been consumed by the shitstorm, is useless for anything other than picking a fight. That's my problem with it.

And yet its caused the most amount of discussion we've had about journalism in years.

Do you think Erik Kain and others would have gotten around for a roudn table if not for #GG?

Would we have seen the opinion of developers about journalism without #GG?

This is the internet, and sadly shitslinging is bound to happen. We have to decry it and encourage discussion. Blaming the tag is just wrong.

Just finished reading the interview with Brad Wardell. The man has some excellent points and while someone has already said he's a bit biased in favor of GG, I can't blame him with the shit he went through because of the same people who now post false accusations against GG like they did against him. In fact, I think that he made a great example of why GG is a good thing with him comparing his situation with Zoe's.

I have to say that, judging from this one interview I read, Escapist is doing a find job in improving their journalistic integrity. Now if only you guys also changed the rules so that people can openly call Yahtzee an asshole like he calls use without getting a warning, it would be a great thing.

BigTuk:

blalien:
A guy who calls himself "Xbro" is opposed to discussions about feminism? Color me surprised!

What does feminism have to do with making fun games?

My girlfriend used to play a lot of online MUDs before we met. She said that every time people found out she was a girl for reals, rather than a guy playing a female character, the sexual harassment got so out of control that she had to quit the game. She once made the mistake of having her e-mail address public in her profile, and her inbox got flooded with dick pics. The experience soured her so much to online gaming that she refuses to ever try it again.

So if you're wondering why some people feel the need to inject feminism into gaming, keep in mind that not everybody has the privilege of ignoring these issues and just enjoying the game. It's great that you can play games any way you want and not have to suffer for it, but some people aren't so lucky.

-

blalien:

BigTuk:

blalien:
A guy who calls himself "Xbro" is opposed to discussions about feminism? Color me surprised!

What does feminism have to do with making fun games?

My girlfriend used to play a lot of online MUDs before we met. She said that every time people found out she was a girl for reals, rather than a guy playing a female character, the sexual harassment got so out of control that she had to quit the game. She once made the mistake of having her e-mail address public in her profile, and her inbox got flooded with dick pics. The experience soured her so much to online gaming that she refuses to ever try it again.

So if you're wondering why some people feel the need to inject feminism into gaming, keep in mind that not everybody has the privilege of ignoring these issues and just enjoying the game. It's great that you can play games any way you want and not have to suffer for it, but some people aren't so lucky.

My girlfriend had a similar experience (but to a lesser degree). Feminism is just as relevant to games as it is to every other facet of our culture. Some people think that it's been too prominent in games media lately, but the reason they keep getting published is because people still have a problem with their existence. As Jim Sterling said, the monster everyone believes Anita to be was created by the very people who vilify her.

This is one HELL of a piece. Just what I've always wanted.

Thanks, guys!

Fappy:

blalien:

BigTuk:

What does feminism have to do with making fun games?

My girlfriend used to play a lot of online MUDs before we met. She said that every time people found out she was a girl for reals, rather than a guy playing a female character, the sexual harassment got so out of control that she had to quit the game. She once made the mistake of having her e-mail address public in her profile, and her inbox got flooded with dick pics. The experience soured her so much to online gaming that she refuses to ever try it again.

So if you're wondering why some people feel the need to inject feminism into gaming, keep in mind that not everybody has the privilege of ignoring these issues and just enjoying the game. It's great that you can play games any way you want and not have to suffer for it, but some people aren't so lucky.

My girlfriend had a similar experience (but to a lesser degree). Feminism is just as relevant to games as it is to every other facet of our culture. Some people think that it's been too prominent in games media lately, but that's only because people still have a problem with the existence of said articles. As Jim Sterling said, the monster everyone believes Anita to be was created by the very people who vilify her.

People don't like the things they like being called wrong / sexist, or be called misogynists themselves when they have never engaged in misogyny.

Thorn14:

Fappy:

blalien:

My girlfriend used to play a lot of online MUDs before we met. She said that every time people found out she was a girl for reals, rather than a guy playing a female character, the sexual harassment got so out of control that she had to quit the game. She once made the mistake of having her e-mail address public in her profile, and her inbox got flooded with dick pics. The experience soured her so much to online gaming that she refuses to ever try it again.

So if you're wondering why some people feel the need to inject feminism into gaming, keep in mind that not everybody has the privilege of ignoring these issues and just enjoying the game. It's great that you can play games any way you want and not have to suffer for it, but some people aren't so lucky.

My girlfriend had a similar experience (but to a lesser degree). Feminism is just as relevant to games as it is to every other facet of our culture. Some people think that it's been too prominent in games media lately, but that's only because people still have a problem with the existence of said articles. As Jim Sterling said, the monster everyone believes Anita to be was created by the very people who vilify her.

People don't like the things they like being called wrong / sexist, or be called misogynists themselves when they have never engaged in misogyny.

I never said claiming entire swaths of people were one thing or another wasn't inherently wrong, because it obviously is. That said, there's nothing wrong with critiquing a piece of art on its social merits. Critique is how art evolves and its relevance to the current social climate is a HUGE factor.

I read the first two so far. I'm kind of annoyed that people who are "Anti-GG" are also labeled as "Having nothing to do with videogames". Which is the very definition of exclusive and divisive. Like how we have separation of core gamers vs. Casual gamers, Bro gamers vs "Real gamers. Fake geek Girls Vs. "Real gamer girls so on and so forth.

But like I said I have something that needs to be done pronto and I'll make another comment when I've read through all of them ( I like the formatting on the other article better. This one is kind of confusing.)

Also note that while the latter article has the writers on anonymous, the male devs aren't afraid to show their names in the articles. Along with the first two kind of denying that women have different experiences online regarding GG, it's kind of telling so far how just a tad bit out of touch they are in terms of what they experienced during their interactions in the GG thing so far.

Thorn14:
And yet its caused the most amount of discussion we've had about journalism in years.

Do you think Erik Kain and others would have gotten around for a roudn table if not for #GG?

Would we have seen the opinion of developers about journalism without #GG?

This is the internet, and sadly shitslinging is bound to happen. We have to decry it and encourage discussion. Blaming the tag is just wrong.

It may have triggered discussion, but it's still ongoing...and it's not fostering discussion within the tag. The tag itself is a wandering explosion of sewage. That people are following in its wake to try cleaning up the mess may have benefits, but the explosion's still there, trashing everything it comes across on the way. And you have to admit, regardless where you stand on the issues, the tag is to blame that at this point. It paints a massive target on whoever uses it pretty much no matter what they say with it.

Who's Erik Kain?

Probably. Brad's interview makes it sound like this has been a long time coming. I don't think it required a trollfest, just a significant issue to broach the subject.

I am decrying the shitslinging. That's why I'm pointing out the tag is a problem: it is the launchpad for a tremendous amount of shitslinging for everyone involved, supporters and detractors.

Fappy:

blalien:

BigTuk:

What does feminism have to do with making fun games?

My girlfriend used to play a lot of online MUDs before we met. She said that every time people found out she was a girl for reals, rather than a guy playing a female character, the sexual harassment got so out of control that she had to quit the game. She once made the mistake of having her e-mail address public in her profile, and her inbox got flooded with dick pics. The experience soured her so much to online gaming that she refuses to ever try it again.

So if you're wondering why some people feel the need to inject feminism into gaming, keep in mind that not everybody has the privilege of ignoring these issues and just enjoying the game. It's great that you can play games any way you want and not have to suffer for it, but some people aren't so lucky.

My girlfriend had a similar experience (but to a lesser degree). Feminism is just as relevant to games as it is to every other facet of our culture. Some people think that it's been too prominent in games media lately, but the reason they keep getting published is because people still have a problem with their existence. As Jim Sterling said, the monster everyone believes Anita to be was created by the very people who vilify her.

Well you can see that gamergate has no qualms against Feminism. Look at Sommers, who got so much support and a thing of flowers when her husband passed.

What gamers have a problem with are what multiple interviews talked about, these people who are coming into the industry, beliving they are morally superior, and then talking down to anyone who doesn't agree with them, labeling them a derogatory term (i.e. sexist), and doing their best to destroy their life.

Vibhor:

the silence:
Brad Wardell sounds like a professional. He has many good points. But he is obviously biased in favor of Gamergate.

Well of course he would be biased. Shitty journalism almost ruined his life.

Yeah, that's what I meant with "obviously". Not meant as a judgement, just as a fact.

"Royale" is quite funny to read. You can't really argue with his/her points.

Crowned Daemon Studios: I think this interview is important. Well, they have stated support of Gamergate before, but they pretty much put an end to claims like "It is a just a conservative backlash".

€: Just wanted to add my thanks as well. That is one SERIOUS commitment to your audience.

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