Escape to the Movies: Fury - Tank You Very Much

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Fury - Tank You Very Much

Fury is a good, brutal war movie that breaks the mold.

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I was wondering about this movie. It didn't look quite typical. I'm glad that it's not. I'll give it a shot when I get the chance.

Didn't know you fallowed the borderlands series bob.

Anyway yeah while ww2 movies are not my thing, I might rent this one to watch with my grandfather. He was too young when ww2 happened but he enlisted during korea but the fighting ended as he was getting on the plane so he spent 2 years as an MP in Germany.

I will watch it when I can, the money must be preserved for the releases I want in the video game department. I kinda like that, I've spent most of 2014 watching films every week, then switch to games after the end of summer (August was kinda barren for both).

Wasn't it Bob himself who said that Shia can act if you give him an actual role, a character? In Lawless (2012).

Well this suddenly looks like something I want to see

I just thought it was another braindead "America fuck ya" WW2 flick - but this... this looks interesting

This looked pretty interesting. At least we have never seen a movie (to my knowledge) that centered around a tank crew. And Brad Pitt tends to pick his movies really well, which is what has kept him a Hollywood A Lister for his entire career.

"David Ayer, whose films frequently depict savage, angry, unapologetically-brutal characters but also ask: "Does that mean they weren't also people? That their stories don't get told?""

I think he's a good pick for the Suicide Squad film based on that alone.

Definitely going to check this one out. Still have to see Gone Girl, though.

Not sure if I want to support a film who wrecked the only working Tiger left in the world and leaving Bovington Tank Museum with a huge bill to get it working again when they were supposed to look after it.

Wait, David Ayer made a Kurt Russell movie? Why didn't anyone tell me?

i4njw:
"David Ayer, whose films frequently depict savage, angry, unapologetically-brutal characters but also ask: "Does that mean they weren't also people? That their stories don't get told?""

I think he's a good pick for the Suicide Squad film based on that alone.

Definitely going to check this one out. Still have to see Gone Girl, though.

Yes. You have to go see Gone Girl before it gets spoiled for you. Great, great film.

As for this, doesn't look to bad.

Hmmm, I haven't seen a good World War II movie for a while so it is nice to know that this is at least good as a movie. Now the question remains if it is good as a historical war movie (I study military history intensively).

Good review, gave me a lot of information without really spoiling anything (as if there was anything to really spoil.)

That said: "War is designed to turn people into psychopaths."

War is designed to turn people into bodies. The stress of it can have harmful effects on people's lives. War is not "designed" to turn people into psychopaths. Next to no one who comes back from a war is turned into one. Seriously, that line sounds deep and all, but it's pretty much total BS. No one I ever served with was turned into a "psychopath." I say this as someone who served in three of the damned things.

Quick Edit: And yea, I know it was just supposed to be kind of a throw away line. War is horrible, blah, blah, blah. It's still a load of horseshit.

I'd kind of wrote this one off, having seen Labeouf was in it! Consider my mind changed.

Great review, Bob. In fact, I was debating checking this one out, and now, I think I will.

So, uh, is there a reason why the cannon shots about half way though this review look like green and blue lasers?

Haven't seen it yet, but didn't 'Kelly's Heroes' (one of my favourite war movies of all time) do all this stuff first?

If only it were a bit more realysitc...

If only the morons that shot the movie did not break the Sherman... but it is a Sherman right? Not a Tiger, so it aint important and they can break it. Big deal it fought a war...

Man, the movie is decent. Good even. Could have been great (for me) if it were more ... realistic. But the way these cretins treated the tank...
Inexcusable! These things MUST be in the review. Why arent they Bob?!@?#???

Gorrath:
Good review, gave me a lot of information without really spoiling anything (as if there was anything to really spoil.)

That said: "War is designed to turn people into psychopaths."

War is designed to turn people into bodies. The stress of it can have harmful effects on people's lives. War is not "designed" to turn people into psychopaths. Next to no one who comes back from a war is turned into one. Seriously, that line sounds deep and all, but it's pretty much total BS. No one I ever served with was turned into a "psychopath." I say this as someone who served in three of the damned things.

Quick Edit: And yea, I know it was just supposed to be kind of a throw away line. War is horrible, blah, blah, blah. It's still a load of horseshit.

Well if we're going to do the "what is war good for" question then I go with Clauswitz and say that war and its objectives are an extension of politics. Its been a very long time since a noble mounted war horse and marched men to fight for him because thats what he is expected to do by his father. Its goal isn't to make men dead but to end war so that one side can have its policy forced upon another. Britain in WWI went to war to protect its flagging hegemony of the sea lanes and investment banking against a Germany that was insisting on being the continental leader of europe and would therefore upset Britain's politics. I also agree though that war isn't a machine to turn men into psychopaths since a psychopath isn't a simple killer of men. A psychopath is a level of selfishness where nothing of compassion or guilt even exists. A soldier still has compassion or guilt for his comrades and modern war doesn't train you to let all your buddies die as long as you get to live.

Come now Mr.Chipman was "Tank you very much" the best tank pun you could think of.

Scorpid:

Gorrath:
Good review, gave me a lot of information without really spoiling anything (as if there was anything to really spoil.)

That said: "War is designed to turn people into psychopaths."

War is designed to turn people into bodies. The stress of it can have harmful effects on people's lives. War is not "designed" to turn people into psychopaths. Next to no one who comes back from a war is turned into one. Seriously, that line sounds deep and all, but it's pretty much total BS. No one I ever served with was turned into a "psychopath." I say this as someone who served in three of the damned things.

Quick Edit: And yea, I know it was just supposed to be kind of a throw away line. War is horrible, blah, blah, blah. It's still a load of horseshit.

Well if we're going to do the "what is war good for" question then I go with Clauswitz and say that war and its objectives are an extension of politics. Its been a very long time since a noble mounted war horse and marched men to fight for him because thats what he is expected to do by his father. Its goal isn't to make men dead but to end war so that one side can have its policy forced upon another. Britain in WWI went to war to protect its flagging hegemony of the sea lanes and investment banking against a Germany that was insisting on being the continental leader of europe and would therefore upset Britain's politics. I also agree though that war isn't a machine to turn men into psychopaths since a psychopath isn't a simple killer of men. A psychopath is a level of selfishness where nothing of compassion or guilt even exists. A soldier still has compassion or guilt for his comrades and modern war doesn't train you to let all your buddies die as long as you get to live.

I don't disagree with your point, but I was speaking of war on the level of those fighting it, not the level of the geo-political forces and their goals. The purpose of moving into in an area and engaging the enemy is to create maximum destruction of their forces and materiel. From the standpoint of the soldier, your job is to create dead bodies and destroyed equipment. (I am being simplistic here, there are many military jobs that are not that at all, obviously.)

Even in the role of killer and destroyer, the soldier is not a psychopath, just as you point out, so I appreciate your understanding there. No sane person does this without remorse or care, which is why it's so hard to deal with it afterwards for a lot of people. If we really were psychopaths, PTSD wouldn't be a thing.

Really, what's with all the red and green lasers?

Gorrath:
War is designed to turn people into bodies. The stress of it can have harmful effects on people's lives. War is not "designed" to turn people into psychopaths.

Well, it's not "war" which turns people into bodies, it's other people. Therefore, "war" (or rather, certain elements of military service) are designed to turn people into people who can turn other people into bodies. That's something which most people have an intensely socialized aversion to doing.

I don't think Bob's use of the word "psychopath" was meant to be taken literally. Very few of the people who staffed the death camps were actual psychopaths, they were ordinary people who had friends and family but who still went to work every day and just did their job as part of an institution which turned millions of people into bodies because that's what they'd been trained to do.

This is a horrible truth which people have been trying to wrap their heads around ever since. People don't need to be psychopaths to act like psychopaths. The vast majority of the most horrific atrocities of recent times were carried out by people like you and me, people who had good, functional relationships with other people, who had feelings, compassion for others and at least the capacity for remorse. Those people had to be trained to shut those things off.

Does war turn people into psychopaths? No. Does war make it more likely that people will act like psychopaths? Well, I guess it depends how you see it, but if you take the ability to override that deeply ingrained socialized revulsion towards killing people as one symptom of psychopathy, then war probably brings people closer.

Odoylerules360:
Really, what's with all the red and green lasers?

They are tracer rounds. They burn a particular composition of chemicals to give off a particular colour and light intensity. Tracers are actually old technology, the Brits developed the first generation of them in 1915.
---

For those who are familiar with the technical aspects of WW2 tanks, how authentic is the tank combat? In the trailer, there is a sequence where a near point blank shot from a German Tiger glances off a US Sherman tank. That is pretty questionable, but it is hard to tell from a split second clip.

Any depiction or mention of the Commonwealth forces in the adjacent sector? Any acknowledgment of the Soviet offensive into Berlin?

Gorrath:

Scorpid:

Gorrath:
Good review, gave me a lot of information without really spoiling anything (as if there was anything to really spoil.)

That said: "War is designed to turn people into psychopaths."

War is designed to turn people into bodies. The stress of it can have harmful effects on people's lives. War is not "designed" to turn people into psychopaths. Next to no one who comes back from a war is turned into one. Seriously, that line sounds deep and all, but it's pretty much total BS. No one I ever served with was turned into a "psychopath." I say this as someone who served in three of the damned things.

Quick Edit: And yea, I know it was just supposed to be kind of a throw away line. War is horrible, blah, blah, blah. It's still a load of horseshit.

Well if we're going to do the "what is war good for" question then I go with Clauswitz and say that war and its objectives are an extension of politics. Its been a very long time since a noble mounted war horse and marched men to fight for him because thats what he is expected to do by his father. Its goal isn't to make men dead but to end war so that one side can have its policy forced upon another. Britain in WWI went to war to protect its flagging hegemony of the sea lanes and investment banking against a Germany that was insisting on being the continental leader of europe and would therefore upset Britain's politics. I also agree though that war isn't a machine to turn men into psychopaths since a psychopath isn't a simple killer of men. A psychopath is a level of selfishness where nothing of compassion or guilt even exists. A soldier still has compassion or guilt for his comrades and modern war doesn't train you to let all your buddies die as long as you get to live.

I don't disagree with your point, but I was speaking of war on the level of those fighting it, not the level of the geo-political forces and their goals. The purpose of moving into in an area and engaging the enemy is to create maximum destruction of their forces and materiel. From the standpoint of the soldier, your job is to create dead bodies and destroyed equipment. (I am being simplistic here, there are many military jobs that are not that at all, obviously.)

Even in the role of killer and destroyer, the soldier is not a psychopath, just as you point out, so I appreciate your understanding there. No sane person does this without remorse or care, which is why it's so hard to deal with it afterwards for a lot of people. If we really were psychopaths, PTSD wouldn't be a thing.

In short, Bob let his politics flop out on the table again. I hope he's not the type who thinks all soldiers are bad, especially ours. Now I'm dreading what he'll say in his Intermission column about Captain America 3.

OT: I had a feeling that Fury is going to be good. If I can find some free time to watch this, I'll see it. Was anyone able to read that poster at the end with the whale in it?

captcha: Built Ford Tough
A good way to describe the tank in the title role, and its crew

Higgs303:

Odoylerules360:
Really, what's with all the red and green lasers?

They are tracer rounds. They burn a particular composition of chemicals to give off a particular colour and light intensity. Tracers are actually old technology, the Brits developed the first generation of them in 1915.
---

For those who are familiar with the technical aspects of WW2 tanks, how authentic is the tank combat? In the trailer, there is a sequence where a near point blank shot from a German Tiger glances off a US Sherman tank. That is pretty questionable, but it is hard to tell from a split second clip.

Any depiction or mention of the Commonwealth forces in the adjacent sector? Any acknowledgment of the Soviet offensive into Berlin?

The 88 shot went at the front of the tank and glanced off of the frontal plate armor. As it WOULD in real life. The Tiger cant penetrate 63 mm of armor sloped at what seems like 80+ degrees... that is several hundred mm of armor.

What is interesting is that they are fighting at 50 meters... when most combat happened at 400 to 700 meters... (1+ km was rare...)
Also the Sherman bounced an almost sure pen shot at the Tiger's side. That should have been a knock out right there.

Higgs303:
For those who are familiar with the technical aspects of WW2 tanks, how authentic is the tank combat? In the trailer, there is a sequence where a near point blank shot from a German Tiger glances off a US Sherman tank. That is pretty questionable, but it is hard to tell from a split second clip.

It is pretty questionable because even though they aren't super powered like modern day tanks, they still can pack a punch. Or in this case, one shot would obliterate the other battle worn tank out just like that.

Regarding my desire to see this film... I am probably going to pick it up when it's on DVD because: 1. It has Shia LeDouche in it. And for the second reason: Brad Pitt his hilarious performance as Lt. Aldo Raine has ruined any future World War 2 film association for me.

evilthecat:

Well, it's not "war" which turns people into bodies, it's other people. Therefore, "war" (or rather, certain elements of military service) are designed to turn people into people who can turn other people into bodies. That's something which most people have an intensely socialized aversion to doing.

We are not actually that socialized to be adverse to killing members of "other tribes." We are more socially and even evolutionarily geared toward being peaceful within our own tribe, and being quite deadly against opposing tribes. Your point that it isn't "war" that turns people into bodies is, I think, mostly semantic. War is the institution of major military conflict, to say it doesn't kill people seems like a stretch. Contrary to what some think, the military doesn't have to break you down, steal your personality and empathy and turn you into a killing machine. As it turns out, humans aren't all that adverse to killing, though I am, obviously, speaking in the broadest of scopes here.

I don't think Bob's use of the word "psychopath" was meant to be taken literally. Very few of the people who staffed the death camps were actual psychopaths, they were ordinary people who had friends and family but who still went to work every day and just did their job as part of an institution which turned millions of people into bodies because that's what they'd been trained to do.

I won't presume one interpretation of his meaning over another, but there seems to be two ways to take what he said. Either war does actually turn people into psychopaths, or else war and its institutions cause regular, sane people to act like psychopaths. Either way you slice it, he's dead wrong. There is nothing inherently psychopathic about fighting in a war. Now that does not mean it's all sunshine and roses or that atrocities aren't committed by people who either break down mentally or really are psychopathic, but again, we're speaking in broad tones here. Again, I didn't take Bob's words as some literal condemnation of soldiers or a suggestion that we're all raving lunatics, I just didn't like what he said because it was horse manure.

This is a horrible truth which people have been trying to wrap their heads around ever since. People don't need to be psychopaths to act like psychopaths. The vast majority of the most horrific atrocities of recent times were carried out by people like you and me, people who had good, functional relationships with other people, who had feelings, compassion for others and at least the capacity for remorse. Those people had to be trained to shut those things off.

Does war turn people into psychopaths? No. Does war make it more likely that people will act like psychopaths? Well, I guess it depends how you see it, but if you take the ability to override that deeply ingrained socialized revulsion towards killing people as one symptom of psychopathy, then war probably brings people closer.

If you think one just "shuts off" things like remorse, compassion or empathy, I'd say you're wrong if you're speaking about most people. At no point did I ever shut off any of that stuff. There was nothing psychopathic about calling in a mortar attack on a machine gun nest, or an air strike on a sniper position, or firing down range at targets more than willing to shoot back at me. It was simply a matter of doing what had to be done, even if it was messy business. We knew we were killing people and we weren't happy about it either, but we also knew that if we didn't kill them, they'd try to kill us. Our willingness to do what we did was not only not psychopathic, it was so normal as to be practically mundane.

Apparently Shia LaBeouf went above and beyond for this movie. He had his front tooth removed and cut his face because he didn't think the make up was realistic enough.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/shia-labeouf-slashed-his-own-face-with-a-knife-to-make-his-fury-character-more-realistic-says-costar-logan-lerman-9776923.html

Say what you want about him, you can't fault his dedication.

When I saw Brad Pitt was in the movie, this is what came to mind.
image

Thank you America, for giving us your hunks so we could be free.

Anyone else hear the Alien trailer music on that last clip? Maybe I have just been playing too much Isolation.

The only thing I dislike in this review is the subtext of: "War makes Psychopaths".
During wartimes yes, but I think all the Grandpas (for the 30 years old if we talk about WW2) beeing Psychopaths otherwise is a rather loose thread, that only developed VERY few times RL on whatever side of the conflict.

And despite usually not having too much nice words for either side of the war (I'm looking at the Bombers. >.<): Your Graps prolly isn't / wasn't a Psychopath. Not after the war. :P

Murlin:
When I saw Brad Pitt was in the movie, this is what came to mind.

Thank you America, for giving us your hunks so we could be free.

I absolutely love Kate Beaton. If ever I were to offer myself in marriage to someone based on their sense of humor alone, it'd be her.

Wolf Hagen:
The only thing I dislike in this review is the subtext of: "War makes Psychopaths".
During wartimes yes, but I think all the Grandpas (for the 30 years old if we talk about WW2) beeing Psychopaths otherwise is a rather loose thread, that only developed VERY few times RL on whatever side of the conflict.

And despite usually not having too much nice words for either side of the war (I'm looking at the Bombers. >.<): Your Graps prolly isn't / wasn't a Psychopath. Not after the war. :P

Sorry, I've already been ranting about this above but I just wanted to add something I've already said up there here. I agree with your point except to say that even during the war we aren't psychopaths nor acting in a psychopathic way. I probably seem like I"m harping on this at this point but it just irks me to think that people believe that soldiers act in a psychopathic way when at war. On the whole, we're just regular people doing regular, rational shit in an extraordinary situation. Firing on armed people who want to kill you isn't psychopathic in the least. Other than that one bit, I think your point is great, so please don't take my one criticism of it too harshly.

Maybe I'll see it when it hits Netflix. I just don't go to the theater much anymore.

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