What You Need to Know About Warmachine and Hordes

What You Need to Know About Warmachine and Hordes

Victory Points presents the definitive guide to getting started with the two related steampunk wargames from privateer press.

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Mmmm, Warmachine. I love that game more than Warhammer and so damn much cheaper to build a starter army. Plus I like Privateer Press' model aesthetics a lot more. Overall I'm happy to see them still going strong now.

Hell yeah. Warmahordes getting noticed. A lot of people will say they prefer Warhammer, but the whole grimdarkgrimmygrimmydarkdarkgrimmyhighschooldark tone of it isn't for everyone. Warmahordes can be pricey at times, but it takes about fifty bucks to do a starter army (Or less depending on the retailer for it, I knew one place that cleaved 25% off of any privateerpress figure/unit/starter box). Its faster paced as well from what I had seen between both WH and WM/H. I've always had fun with it and the models hold an extremely high aesthetic value to me. Plus the Warcasters/Warlocks(Leaders of the armies) can completely change the tone of what you play in a single faction (Depending on the faction that is. Morebanespls excluded.)

What's up with the photos of Malifaux figures?

If you and a friend like the factions in them, the two-player starter sets for Warmachine/Hordes are a good deal. They have a better model-to-price ratio than the single faction starters and come with a pocket rulebook.

Ya. the first pic (not the dire troll with 'Victory Points' icon around it, but the group shot) is from Malifaux. Also, seconding 'Warmahordes'. The 'seperate games' thing is really nebulous, especially when you have mercenaries/minions, and even one Warcaster (Magnus the Warlord) who can be played in the opposite game.

I'd guess that Malifaux might be the next article and the photos got mixed up.

Breakdown:
I'd guess that Malifaux might be the next article and the photos got mixed up.

Ding! Tell the nice user what they win...

That aside, I'm curious as to what everyone plays in Warmahordes - sound off!

I haven't played WM/H in a long while, but I'm sitting on roughly 100 pts worth of Khador, and nearly 125 worth of Skorne.

WM/H is by far a better GAME than WH40k, but on the whole 40k has better looking models (aesthetics aside).

Since I've noticed some Malifaux has snuck in to the article, I've been dabbling in that very recently. Its a MUCH different game from the other two.

JonB:

Breakdown:
I'd guess that Malifaux might be the next article and the photos got mixed up.

Ding! Tell the nice user what they win...

That aside, I'm curious as to what everyone plays in Warmahordes - sound off!

I have no experience with Warmahordes, but I have picked up a couple of Malifaux box sets recently. I don't really play, I'm more into collecting and attempting to paint before giving up in a fit of despair.

JonB:
That aside, I'm curious as to what everyone plays in Warmahordes - sound off!

Most recently, Gatormen in a Journeyman League. Throwing 'jacks into water never gets old.

Something else people should know about Warmahordes: the plastic is terrible. Apparently they've started making the new warjacks in the kind of plastic that is used for mainstream model kits and GW's plastic kits, but everything else is PVC.

Warmahordes like Warhammer is a nice table top game to play casually with friends but it suffers from the same problems as Warhammer when you take it to a competitive level (the same 4-5 armies winning the top prizes, cheese strats winning the day etc).

Fun casual game, boring competitive game

CaptainMidlands:
Warmahordes like Warhammer is a nice table top game to play casually with friends but it suffers from the same problems as Warhammer when you take it to a competitive level (the same 4-5 armies winning the top prizes, cheese strats winning the day etc).

Fun casual game, boring competitive game

Yeah, except for the part where that's not true.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/

JonB:

That aside, I'm curious as to what everyone plays in Warmahordes - sound off!

Cygnar. Guns and Lightning, bring it! Though the Disruption status effect is USELESS vs Hordes. Unless the rules changed.

JonB:

Breakdown:
I'd guess that Malifaux might be the next article and the photos got mixed up.

Ding! Tell the nice user what they win...

That aside, I'm curious as to what everyone plays in Warmahordes - sound off!

I may have a bit of an addiction but I have Cryx, Menoth, Circle and Cygnar... and I am sure that I can make a Merc army if i wanted to.

JonB:

Breakdown:
I'd guess that Malifaux might be the next article and the photos got mixed up.

Ding! Tell the nice user what they win...

That aside, I'm curious as to what everyone plays in Warmahordes - sound off!

Warmachine: Llael shall be free again!!! Mercenaries/Cygnar if anyone wants specifics.

Hordes: The Legion of Everblight will DESTROY you!

Man, I love this game. I don't really think the price to model ratio is that different from 40k, but it is MUCH easier to start playing with them in comparison with warhammer/40k. Add to it the short time needed to play a game (1-2 hours usually for a game) and it's my preferred wargame.

Tarkand:

CaptainMidlands:
Warmahordes like Warhammer is a nice table top game to play casually with friends but it suffers from the same problems as Warhammer when you take it to a competitive level (the same 4-5 armies winning the top prizes, cheese strats winning the day etc).

Fun casual game, boring competitive game

Yeah, except for the part where that's not true.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/

Looks like an awful lot of Cryx and Cygnar to me. Throw in the third place Skorne, and you've got well over half of the top-three non-team placements on the first page.

JonB:

That aside, I'm curious as to what everyone plays in Warmahordes - sound off!

Retribution of Scyrah with a side of Menoth. I'm fond of the elves aesthetic and their assassination potential (the fact that the past couple of releases have given them a lot of options like eVyros and the Houseguard Thane have also been nice).

With Menoth, it goes back to my days as a magic player where I played a lot of control decks. There's something just satisfying about saying "NO" to the enemy.

CaptainMidlands:
Warmahordes like Warhammer is a nice table top game to play casually with friends but it suffers from the same problems as Warhammer when you take it to a competitive level (the same 4-5 armies winning the top prizes, cheese strats winning the day etc).

Fun casual game, boring competitive game

Aside from that not being true as another user said, I also have to say that it is an extremely well thought out and written competitive game. Aside from the fact that despite a few factions certainly being overall stronger in many ways, pretty much all of them are competitively viable (whereas it would be a stretch to say 40k has more than 2 or 3 competitively viable armies at any given time), the rules are absolutely magnificent. Games are fun, exciting, and comebacks are far from unheard of even after taking some massive hits.

But even better is it has one of the best written competitive rule sets out there. The vast majority of questions that come up in any game can be answered by reading the rules as they're written. No need to check a FAQ or an errata. And on the odd occasion that you do need to go outside the rulebook for a specific answer, it's usually for a clarification to what was written on a card, and is almost always clarified in a way that makes sense with the apparent intention of the rules. That is so ungodly huge for a competitive game to be a good competitive game that I couldn't overstate it if I tried. By comparison, Warhammer with its poorly worded, and often even conflicting, sets of rules, backed up by errata that rarely make any sense and have zero consistency is a complete and utter joke as a competitive game. I'd even go so far as to say that I find the idea of people playing it in organized tournaments for actual prizes laughable. And that's without getting into just how poorly balanced it is. There are entire factions in 40K that aren't competitive to the extreme of losing as soon as their opponent selects their army, and some that are flat out hard countered by other armies, to say nothing of many of the more competitive lists being hard skew lists that take the thing their army is best at and go all out with it. Warmahordes balance on its worst day is better than Warhammer at its best.

If you honestly think that Warmahordes is a poor competitive game with very little variation in the meta, and nothing but cheese strats winning the day, I feel quite safe stating that you either haven't played much, or you and your opponents have a poor understanding of the rules. I could understand it just not being your kind of game, but the statements you made are just plain silly. Unless you made the mistake of thinking you spell Warmachine W-A-R-H-A-M-M-E-R somewhere along the way. In which case everything you said would be true.

What you need to know about Scummachine and hordes, /tg/ edition
>battletech, you know you want to, once models get better
>Kings of war, WFHB but cheaper with double the models
>flames of war, I want to play my Russian guard self propelled sappers army
>warpath, 40k but cheaper, double the models, and designed by famous former GW creative
>deadzone, mordhiem, in space, with zombies, cheap and pretty good models
>infinity, a game of skill from whay I heard. love the nomads
>Malifaux, pretty much the same style as Scummachine and hordes, ability driven skirmish
>Destopia wars, steampunk, I play the covenant of Antarctica, they have giant spider robots named after Greek philosophers
>spartan games, all of them, includes the above,
>mars attacks, all in name, based on the movie
>All quiet on the Martian front. SERIOUSLY CHECK THAT GAME OUT IT'S REALLY DAMN COOL, it's a war of the worlds TableTop
>Monsterpolyse, don't expect any support, it's a great game but PP left it to dry from hordes, no I'm not bitter or sad
image

>WHFB (FORGODSSAKECANIJUSTPLAYONE2000POINTMATCHIN7THEEDITION,JEZ)
>bloodbowl, necromunda, mordienheim, epic,battlefleet gothic,Aeronautica Imperialis, Inquisitor, gorkamorka all have either living rulebooks or have scribed rulebooks (they are OoP, and I most cases I don't think GW so don't worry)

>finally 40k is getting a living rule book thrown together by the guys that brought you h8chan, "we're too extreme for 4chan"~some stupid reporter
image

CaptainMidlands:
Warmahordes like Warhammer is a nice table top game to play casually with friends but it suffers from the same problems as Warhammer when you take it to a competitive level (the same 4-5 armies winning the top prizes, cheese strats winning the day etc).

Fun casual game, boring competitive game

>casul-ly?
image
If you say so, my play group might have just been filled with powergamers but I've seen too many black thirteens, beast 09s and everblight light cav' lists...wait no just everblight in general then I'd like.....ever.
All of the cheese upon all of the cheese, meta with meta.
No room for your guys, modelling, much conversion, terrain or even really infantry past 1st edition (not in the way I play it, I'm a british commander at heart).
Also I manged to roll 3 on 3 dice with the butcher on his feat turn.
I do like magnus the traitor.
The celphax, even if their warcaster is bloody stupid looking
and of course lich lord assfac... i mean asphyxious.
That being said
I would never say Warhammer is like Scubmachine, the fundamentals lie in the method of play. I see and have always seen Scubmachine as being a more ability driven game over all and not a wargame, wargame.
It's as it say s a skirmish game, with abilities and effects that function together in interesting ways but even then it will never scratch the same spot.
I played

Be nice if GW learned a bit from Privateer's business strategy. The $50 starter packs for each faction would be great ported to warhams, it's not as if they don't do something similar but you have to stick with marines or chaos. They're willing to do the price, but for some reason, not the choice.
I'm also told that you get the rules for each unit/model in the pack when you buy it and the equivalent of a codex is an optional extra.
OTOH, the price for some of their models is even worse than GW, was looking at their infantry models for some alternate guardsmen and nearly had a heart attack.

The only thing I know about Warmachine is that whenever I ask someone at the store if they're playing 40k, the answer is invariably, "No, it's Warmachine."

Since this is a new column on a new topic I have a suggestion: could you explain how the &*#$ any of this works? I mean, how do you play a miniatures game? Do you move one piece at a time? How do you determine what you can hit? How do you measure distances? (Center to center? Edge to edge?) How big a table do you need? How does it differ from an RPG with a hex map and figurines? Do you need 3D models of environment? How do you handle terrain?

Furthermore, do you need figurines? If you know the rules, can you just use something else to represent pieces? (It's always puzzled me that such games are obsessed with expensive models - it's as if you couldn't play chess without a really detailed model of a tower for your rook).

I've read lots of WH40K fluff, but I have no idea how one actually (e.g. mechanically) play such a game. It would be of great interest to me (and perhaps others who "game" but have not played with miniatures) if you gave an introduction to miniature gaming.

Kerric:
Since this is a new column on a new topic I have a suggestion: could you explain how the &*#$ any of this works? I mean, how do you play a miniatures game? Do you move one piece at a time? How do you determine what you can hit? How do you measure distances? (Center to center? Edge to edge?) How big a table do you need? How does it differ from an RPG with a hex map and figurines? Do you need 3D models of environment? How do you handle terrain?

Furthermore, do you need figurines? If you know the rules, can you just use something else to represent pieces? (It's always puzzled me that such games are obsessed with expensive models - it's as if you couldn't play chess without a really detailed model of a tower for your rook).

I've read lots of WH40K fluff, but I have no idea how one actually (e.g. mechanically) play such a game. It would be of great interest to me (and perhaps others who "game" but have not played with miniatures) if you gave an introduction to miniature gaming.

I guess it would make sense for them to make an article explaining the basics of tabletop wargames, though they tend to vary in many aspects from one another.

Take Warmachine/Hordes for instance; You play on a 4 feet by 4 feet table (Or zones measured out on a bigger one if necessary), set up terrain (how this is done is very subjective) and then roll for who either goes first or picks the side they want to deploy their army on first. Depending on which set of scenario rules you play deployment varies slightly.

You measure from the edge of the base to a point on the table, or the edge of another models base in most instances, though there are exceptions, such as when placing a magical AoE with such a condition, in which case it's mostly "place anywhere completely within X", which obviously means the entire thing needs to be within the specified number.

As for the order of moving things, in Warmachine/Hordes you 'activate' a Model(Warcaster/Warjack/Solo as an example) or a Unit (A collection of more than one model, most often 6 or 10 if they are small based(30mm) and 3 to 6 if they are medium based (40mm) though there's exceptions to that particular rule as well), you then declare an order (Charge/Run being the most common order(s)) or simply advance(move normally) or forfeit your movement to gain Aim (Bonus to ranged attack rolls) with every model activated (So only the one model unless it's a unit) followed by an Action (Such as making a ranged or melee attack, or casting a spell(Though Warcasters don't need to use their action to cast spells, but that's beside the point)), then you resolve any additional rules and then their activation ends and you choose another model/unit to activate until your entire army has done something, at which point it's the opponents turn.

Terrain itself can be represented by strips of paper if you want, or massively detailed 3d pieces. It's all up to what you're satisfied with yourself, though some terrain pieces get pretty annoying if they're done too realistically :P (Always fun to place top-heavy metal models on a natural looking hill). Terrain have clearly defined rules in the game, such as forests giving Concealment, Hills giving elevation, etc.)

The same goes for models too, but it gets a whole lot more confusing the higher point values and different types of units/solos/warnouns you add to your forces. Remember it's not just you who need to know what everything is, but your opponent needs to be able to look at your stuff and tell what it is, or at least be able to ask about it and (hopefully) remember for next time they see it. Having a poker chip represent something could get confusing easily, especially if the meaning of said chip changes each time! But there's nothing wrong with "proxing" a few models here or there, or doing it to try out another factions battlebox. (I tried proxing a 50point force once using another army, I gave up in the deployment step. TOO confusing, and I've got the rules down pat).

Besides that I personally enjoy the modeling and painting side of things, even if I'm a really slow painter with a penchant for being distracted by stuff :P
Warcaster - Iron Mother

I hope that helped, but if you've still got questions then feel free to ask and I'll try to answer them :P

Out of curiousity, has anyone tried the PC "Warmachines" game?

I've seen it on Steam and I'm intrigued, but I'm generally not a huge fan of early access games. Was curious if anyone has tried it out yet.

Ihateregistering1:
Out of curiousity, has anyone tried the PC "Warmachines" game?

I've seen it on Steam and I'm intrigued, but I'm generally not a huge fan of early access games. Was curious if anyone has tried it out yet.

I donated to the kickstarter so I've had access for a while, but haven't played too much since it was in pretty early Alpha for quite a while. That said, they've been making some major improvements, and I believe they're updating it every week so the commitment to making it something great is definitely there. I didn't like it too much the first time I tried it, but since then they've made UI improvements, added a tutorial, and if I'm not mistaken the most recent update adds the full campaign (20 missions or something like that), so I'm going to jump back in when I have the free time again to give it another go. The last time I played was just to try the tutorial mission, but it plays quite similarly to the table top game for the most part, so I imagine once it's finished and polished up it will be quite good. The tutorial level was certainly an improvement on what I'd tried before.

Haven't played it enough, or recently enough to say if it's worth it right now though. I'd say it wasn't a few months back, but it's improved quite a bit since then. It's definitely one I'd keep an eye on if you're interested in Warmachine though.

Vivi22:

Ihateregistering1:
Out of curiousity, has anyone tried the PC "Warmachines" game?

I've seen it on Steam and I'm intrigued, but I'm generally not a huge fan of early access games. Was curious if anyone has tried it out yet.

I donated to the kickstarter so I've had access for a while, but haven't played too much since it was in pretty early Alpha for quite a while. That said, they've been making some major improvements, and I believe they're updating it every week so the commitment to making it something great is definitely there. I didn't like it too much the first time I tried it, but since then they've made UI improvements, added a tutorial, and if I'm not mistaken the most recent update adds the full campaign (20 missions or something like that), so I'm going to jump back in when I have the free time again to give it another go. The last time I played was just to try the tutorial mission, but it plays quite similarly to the table top game for the most part, so I imagine once it's finished and polished up it will be quite good. The tutorial level was certainly an improvement on what I'd tried before.

Haven't played it enough, or recently enough to say if it's worth it right now though. I'd say it wasn't a few months back, but it's improved quite a bit since then. It's definitely one I'd keep an eye on if you're interested in Warmachine though.

Sounds good. Does the campaign only cover 1 faction, or all 4 factions? Actually, can you play as all 4 factions? I figured you'd be stuck as Cygnar, since they're the stereotypical "good guys".

Ihateregistering1:

Vivi22:

Ihateregistering1:
Out of curiousity, has anyone tried the PC "Warmachines" game?

I've seen it on Steam and I'm intrigued, but I'm generally not a huge fan of early access games. Was curious if anyone has tried it out yet.

I donated to the kickstarter so I've had access for a while, but haven't played too much since it was in pretty early Alpha for quite a while. That said, they've been making some major improvements, and I believe they're updating it every week so the commitment to making it something great is definitely there. I didn't like it too much the first time I tried it, but since then they've made UI improvements, added a tutorial, and if I'm not mistaken the most recent update adds the full campaign (20 missions or something like that), so I'm going to jump back in when I have the free time again to give it another go. The last time I played was just to try the tutorial mission, but it plays quite similarly to the table top game for the most part, so I imagine once it's finished and polished up it will be quite good. The tutorial level was certainly an improvement on what I'd tried before.

Haven't played it enough, or recently enough to say if it's worth it right now though. I'd say it wasn't a few months back, but it's improved quite a bit since then. It's definitely one I'd keep an eye on if you're interested in Warmachine though.

Sounds good. Does the campaign only cover 1 faction, or all 4 factions? Actually, can you play as all 4 factions? I figured you'd be stuck as Cygnar, since they're the stereotypical "good guys".

Honestly not sure since I probably won't get time to play until Sunday. I believe they mentioned something about playing as all the factions back during the kickstarter phase, but I'm not sure if that included in the campaign mode. Hopefully it does since I'm more of a Khador fan, but there's still AI skirmish modes and online to fill my need to fight for the motherland I suppose.

Actually scratch that, I got curious and checked out their latest news update on Steam. It says the No Man's Land campaign is available, which to me implies that others will be made available in the future, so while there's no campaign modes for the other factions yet, it sounds likely that we'll get them eventually.

Vivi22:

Ihateregistering1:

Vivi22:

I donated to the kickstarter so I've had access for a while, but haven't played too much since it was in pretty early Alpha for quite a while. That said, they've been making some major improvements, and I believe they're updating it every week so the commitment to making it something great is definitely there. I didn't like it too much the first time I tried it, but since then they've made UI improvements, added a tutorial, and if I'm not mistaken the most recent update adds the full campaign (20 missions or something like that), so I'm going to jump back in when I have the free time again to give it another go. The last time I played was just to try the tutorial mission, but it plays quite similarly to the table top game for the most part, so I imagine once it's finished and polished up it will be quite good. The tutorial level was certainly an improvement on what I'd tried before.

Haven't played it enough, or recently enough to say if it's worth it right now though. I'd say it wasn't a few months back, but it's improved quite a bit since then. It's definitely one I'd keep an eye on if you're interested in Warmachine though.

Sounds good. Does the campaign only cover 1 faction, or all 4 factions? Actually, can you play as all 4 factions? I figured you'd be stuck as Cygnar, since they're the stereotypical "good guys".

Honestly not sure since I probably won't get time to play until Sunday. I believe they mentioned something about playing as all the factions back during the kickstarter phase, but I'm not sure if that included in the campaign mode. Hopefully it does since I'm more of a Khador fan, but there's still AI skirmish modes and online to fill my need to fight for the motherland I suppose.

Actually scratch that, I got curious and checked out their latest news update on Steam. It says the No Man's Land campaign is available, which to me implies that others will be made available in the future, so while there's no campaign modes for the other factions yet, it sounds likely that we'll get them eventually.

Based on the met stretch goals from the kickstarter, there will be at least two 'mission packs' added at a later date, Fire and Ice, which looks to be Khador vs. Protectorate (not sure from which perspective, or if it will be from both), and Dark Seduction (Cryx vs. Cygnar). Additionally, Mercs under Magnus and Retribution will be added at later dates.

regalphantom:

SNIP

Ok, NOW I'm sold, thanks for the info!

 

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